Just wondering now that the programme has finished what your thoughts are on it? Watched the last episode last night and found the music had no lift tunes were too complicated for the musicians and they looked uncomfortable. There seemed no spark to the band and it was obvious they were just thrown together and had yet to form relationships. After ten weeks together one would expect more from even average performers. As for the singing, where do I start, twas uncomfortable watching someone so nervous and even harder listening to her screaming. She is good enough for a pub session but no ammount of editing can replace style and experience. There was one positive and that was Tara who shone throughout!
Paul Brady made the best contribution to the series.
Tell the story of the song, don't put in sounds that aren't there, don't clutter the narrative. Let the song speak for itself.
The exact same same advice should have been given to the musicians.
Let the tune speak for itself. One problem... where were the tunes?
The tunes that worked well for them sounded like pieces of of music from Riverdance. Except Riverdance have the 'coup de grace'... a big line of dancers!
There was no musical discernment in either the choice of songs or tunes. Hard to blame youngish musicians for this when a severe lack of guidance was given to them.
This coupled with the lack of foresight in not re-inventing the wheel as Liz Doherty recommended, left us listening to formulas (as opposed to tunes or sets of tunes), that we are all to used to hearing this last 40+ years.
They could be good at what they do if they manage to keep going. However they are very unoriginal, originality was what Lunny's ensembles of the 70's had going for them.
Technical ability in abundance - ability to discern good from bad nowhere to be seen!
Yep. We just saw one show in the series. We weren't motivated to watch another one. Tara Breen is great and kept a cool distance throughout the episode we watched. James Mahon is great as well. Those two alone would have been plenty.
I am not a huge fan of any of the contemporary show-bands. But putting together a semi-trad band as if they were The Monkees or a boy-band is a calculated financial -- rather than an artistic -- project. It is artificial, purely commercial, and irrelevant. Donal Lunny knows better but these are tough times and he's got to make a living too.
Well, I thought it was interesting to watch and wish I could play as well! I think you are a bit harsh! The audience and the band clearly enjoyed that concert and they produced an amazing big band sound. Maybe you expected too much?
I'd like to hear them playing more traditional stuff and playing in a way that would allow the individual talents to shine through and give themselves more space. At present the whole is not perhaps as great as the sum of the individual parts. The guitarist and keyboard playing need to do more than regard themselves as aprt of a rhythm section too.
But I think it was only 10 days playing together, not 10 weeks!
Of course you might not like the idea of the whole project - I can see that. Perhaps if they could spend longer in the house together and not be allowed out at all? A bit more under the sheets action would spice it up, I felt. Then each week the band members could vote one of the group out....?
Their singer drove me insane (and not just her personality). I thought it was a pity that the band did not "choose" your one from Cork: Ni Chroinin I think it was. It could have been a good way to present more songs as gaelige in a contemporary way a la Julie Fowlis, instead of rehashed pop-trad fusion of the Celtic Women ilk. I was also disappointed that the piper from Belfast stepped out. He had more personality than the other guy.
Also, I agree with above--Lunny did nothing new, and the rhythm section lacked the dynamism of the Bothies because most of them were playing for every set, all the time. Always piano AND guitar AND bodhran or that monstrosity which didn't function.
I agree with Séan óg - considering that Lunny was the master of the arrangements that made Planxty so special it would have been nice for him to impart some of this knowledge to the band who ended up sounding like a session on stage. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, but that man has such a gift for arrangement you can't help but feel it's an opportunity missed. Excellent players individually, but not quite gelling as a group yet.
As for the Gréadan - fair play for the concept, but the execution lost it's way early on in the series.
I really enjoyed the series, very talented young musicians and fascinating to see Donal Lunny mould them into a trad group. I also think some of the tunes were excellent especially Michael McGoldrick's jig that they used as the theme tune, ar fheabhas ar fad!
Now, having said all that I was disappointed that a strong traditional singer wasn't chosen who could sing as Gaeilge.I also thought an Greadán was a bit of a distraction but over all it gets my vote.
Just a little perspective from America. I watched the entire series on the Internet, and it definitely held my interest. I thought the search for the individual players was fascinating and way entertaining. Ironically, I thought the series started to head south a bit when the band was finally fully formed and was herded into that house for 10 days of woodshedding with little guidance from the top other than some guest appearances by a few celebs, obviously brought in more for the benefit of ratings rather than for the young musicians. Still, I had high hopes for them, that they'd pull it together and blow me away when they finally got on stage. I just finished watching the final episode, and I have to say I was not blown away. Obviously they are extraordinarily talented individuals, and if they stay together they may mesh into an extraordinarily talented ensemble. But that hasn't happened yet, no fault of theirs. I agree with those who said that 10 days is not nearly enough time to develop that sort of chemistry. I do hope they stay together and keep exploring, because I think their potential is unlimited. And if they decided to make that into a series, I'd probably keep watching.
"brought in more for the benefit of ratings rather than for the young musicians..." not sure Dave it would have made much a differance to be people who don't listen / enjoy trad or speak Irish if TG4 brings Michael McGoldrick on the show
Saw the repeat of the final episode last night - in the end the lead up was more interesting than the final fairly boring result. All very talented musicians apart from the unfortunate singer who should not have been short listed by D Lunny at all let alone chosen by the band, just the completely wrong place for her to be.
But overall result really disappointing - even the name they chose was really dire. Still I enjoyed most of the episodes, especially the master class by Paul Brady and Mike McGoldrick's appearances. The Empire looked like a really nice venue too.
You people are so harsh... this is a band, if it can be called this way, that was formed very quickly and they worked together for maybe a month, even two... doesn't matter, it's still not enough to bring something like the Bothies on stage. So take that into account - what's this harshness all of a sudden?
About the singer, she's cute, good on stage - confident mostly - and she has an 'american idol' voice, so what? I think she really tried her best to sing those songs as pure as she could. Just because you or me aren't used to that kind of singing in ITM, doesn't mean this couldn't work - maybe it still can.
The flute player was talking very strangely to the cam... dunno what was up with that guy.
In the end, the show/gig was absolutely great! I wasn't blown away, but when am I blown away anyway? Nowadays, never. But I thought the show was powerful, accurate and diverse. For a first show I think this was fantastic.
The Greadán was a waste of time, and was justifiably left aside for most of the concert.
The band members were asked to join a band that Lunny was "putting together" - they would have been right to be disappointed not to be in a band WITH Ireland's most innovative folk musician.
They were asked to do the nearly-impossible, and put together a set in 10 days, with only Donal's occasional presence to encourage them.
All in all a bizarre experiment, using trad music in the "reality show" arena - didn't excite me, but I'd like to hear the band (or what's left) after a while together; they're all great musicians.
The singer did NOT take the advice of Paul Brady. She still sounded like she was putting on airs rather than singing them.
The drum thing was a joke. Even Noel the drum master who came in for a visit while Donal was in town for the day said so. I was screaming at the computer halfway though: "Damn it man, let the lad play his goat skin!!!" Yes, I was screaming for more bodhran. [shakes head sadly]
I also found myself picking out the usual tricks all bands have now. For sets or arrangements there's always a few things that must (I guess) be done:
The Build: Usually starts sparingly with a flute or whistle, and slowly builds during the set to include the whole group flying at full volume.
The Showcase: Where band members take turns playing 'lead' during the same set.
The Tempo Change: The start a slow tune then jack it into a fast tune for cheap thrills routine. Always a classic.
For that last one, they did have the Rainbow, so it went slow, fast, slow.
Cathal reminded me of these thoughts above with his:
"...left us listening to formulas (as opposed to tunes or sets of tunes)..."
'Zactly. But very educational for any band out there who wants to play the formulas as handed down by the gods themselves. (or Donal, in this case)
All that being said, it was a pretty cool show. Very interesting!
lorg lunny success or car crash?
lorg lunny success or car crash?
Just wondering now that the programme has finished what your thoughts are on it? Watched the last episode last night and found the music had no lift tunes were too complicated for the musicians and they looked uncomfortable. There seemed no spark to the band and it was obvious they were just thrown together and had yet to form relationships. After ten weeks together one would expect more from even average performers. As for the singing, where do I start, twas uncomfortable watching someone so nervous and even harder listening to her screaming. She is good enough for a pub session but no ammount of editing can replace style and experience. There was one positive and that was Tara who shone throughout!
# Posted on April 1st 2010 by Smithy234
Re: lorg lunny success or car crash?
Paul Brady made the best contribution to the series.
Tell the story of the song, don't put in sounds that aren't there, don't clutter the narrative. Let the song speak for itself.
The exact same same advice should have been given to the musicians.
Let the tune speak for itself. One problem... where were the tunes?
The tunes that worked well for them sounded like pieces of of music from Riverdance. Except Riverdance have the 'coup de grace'... a big line of dancers!
There was no musical discernment in either the choice of songs or tunes. Hard to blame youngish musicians for this when a severe lack of guidance was given to them.
This coupled with the lack of foresight in not re-inventing the wheel as Liz Doherty recommended, left us listening to formulas (as opposed to tunes or sets of tunes), that we are all to used to hearing this last 40+ years.
They could be good at what they do if they manage to keep going. However they are very unoriginal, originality was what Lunny's ensembles of the 70's had going for them.
Technical ability in abundance - ability to discern good from bad nowhere to be seen!
# Posted on April 1st 2010 by Cathal Buí Mac Giolla Ghunna
...car crash...
Yep. We just saw one show in the series. We weren't motivated to watch another one. Tara Breen is great and kept a cool distance throughout the episode we watched. James Mahon is great as well. Those two alone would have been plenty.
I am not a huge fan of any of the contemporary show-bands. But putting together a semi-trad band as if they were The Monkees or a boy-band is a calculated financial -- rather than an artistic -- project. It is artificial, purely commercial, and irrelevant. Donal Lunny knows better but these are tough times and he's got to make a living too.
# Posted on April 2nd 2010 by David Levine
Re: lorg lunny success or car crash?
Well, I thought it was interesting to watch and wish I could play as well! I think you are a bit harsh! The audience and the band clearly enjoyed that concert and they produced an amazing big band sound. Maybe you expected too much?
I'd like to hear them playing more traditional stuff and playing in a way that would allow the individual talents to shine through and give themselves more space. At present the whole is not perhaps as great as the sum of the individual parts. The guitarist and keyboard playing need to do more than regard themselves as aprt of a rhythm section too.
But I think it was only 10 days playing together, not 10 weeks!
Of course you might not like the idea of the whole project - I can see that. Perhaps if they could spend longer in the house together and not be allowed out at all? A bit more under the sheets action would spice it up, I felt. Then each week the band members could vote one of the group out....?
# Posted on April 2nd 2010 by Rob
Re: lorg lunny success or car crash?
The puppeteer could'nt pick a better background.
Cirrus or Circus ?
# Posted on April 2nd 2010 by Dawros Frog
Re: lorg lunny success or car crash?
Their singer drove me insane (and not just her personality). I thought it was a pity that the band did not "choose" your one from Cork: Ni Chroinin I think it was. It could have been a good way to present more songs as gaelige in a contemporary way a la Julie Fowlis, instead of rehashed pop-trad fusion of the Celtic Women ilk. I was also disappointed that the piper from Belfast stepped out. He had more personality than the other guy.
Also, I agree with above--Lunny did nothing new, and the rhythm section lacked the dynamism of the Bothies because most of them were playing for every set, all the time. Always piano AND guitar AND bodhran or that monstrosity which didn't function.
# Posted on April 2nd 2010 by seán_óg
Re: lorg lunny success or car crash?
I agree with Séan óg - considering that Lunny was the master of the arrangements that made Planxty so special it would have been nice for him to impart some of this knowledge to the band who ended up sounding like a session on stage. Nothing wrong with that I suppose, but that man has such a gift for arrangement you can't help but feel it's an opportunity missed. Excellent players individually, but not quite gelling as a group yet.
As for the Gréadan - fair play for the concept, but the execution lost it's way early on in the series.
# Posted on April 2nd 2010 by Sugarfoot Jack
Re: lorg lunny success or car crash?
I really enjoyed the series, very talented young musicians and fascinating to see Donal Lunny mould them into a trad group. I also think some of the tunes were excellent especially Michael McGoldrick's jig that they used as the theme tune, ar fheabhas ar fad!
Now, having said all that I was disappointed that a strong traditional singer wasn't chosen who could sing as Gaeilge.I also thought an Greadán was a bit of a distraction but over all it gets my vote.
# Posted on April 2nd 2010 by Micí Mac Cú Uladh
Re: lorg lunny success or car crash?
Just a little perspective from America. I watched the entire series on the Internet, and it definitely held my interest. I thought the search for the individual players was fascinating and way entertaining. Ironically, I thought the series started to head south a bit when the band was finally fully formed and was herded into that house for 10 days of woodshedding with little guidance from the top other than some guest appearances by a few celebs, obviously brought in more for the benefit of ratings rather than for the young musicians. Still, I had high hopes for them, that they'd pull it together and blow me away when they finally got on stage. I just finished watching the final episode, and I have to say I was not blown away. Obviously they are extraordinarily talented individuals, and if they stay together they may mesh into an extraordinarily talented ensemble. But that hasn't happened yet, no fault of theirs. I agree with those who said that 10 days is not nearly enough time to develop that sort of chemistry. I do hope they stay together and keep exploring, because I think their potential is unlimited. And if they decided to make that into a series, I'd probably keep watching.
# Posted on April 3rd 2010 by Dave Fennessy
Re: lorg lunny success or car crash?
"brought in more for the benefit of ratings rather than for the young musicians..." not sure Dave it would have made much a differance to be people who don't listen / enjoy trad or speak Irish if TG4 brings Michael McGoldrick on the show
# Posted on April 3rd 2010 by premier
Re: lorg lunny success or car crash?
Saw the repeat of the final episode last night - in the end the lead up was more interesting than the final fairly boring result. All very talented musicians apart from the unfortunate singer who should not have been short listed by D Lunny at all let alone chosen by the band, just the completely wrong place for her to be.
But overall result really disappointing - even the name they chose was really dire. Still I enjoyed most of the episodes, especially the master class by Paul Brady and Mike McGoldrick's appearances. The Empire looked like a really nice venue too.
# Posted on April 4th 2010 by ck
Re: lorg lunny success or car crash?
You people are so harsh... this is a band, if it can be called this way, that was formed very quickly and they worked together for maybe a month, even two... doesn't matter, it's still not enough to bring something like the Bothies on stage. So take that into account - what's this harshness all of a sudden?
About the singer, she's cute, good on stage - confident mostly - and she has an 'american idol' voice, so what? I think she really tried her best to sing those songs as pure as she could. Just because you or me aren't used to that kind of singing in ITM, doesn't mean this couldn't work - maybe it still can.
The flute player was talking very strangely to the cam... dunno what was up with that guy.
In the end, the show/gig was absolutely great! I wasn't blown away, but when am I blown away anyway? Nowadays, never. But I thought the show was powerful, accurate and diverse. For a first show I think this was fantastic.
Gotta love Reality shows
cheers everyone!
# Posted on April 6th 2010 by Trip-
Re: lorg lunny success or car crash?
The Greadán was a waste of time, and was justifiably left aside for most of the concert.
The band members were asked to join a band that Lunny was "putting together" - they would have been right to be disappointed not to be in a band WITH Ireland's most innovative folk musician.
They were asked to do the nearly-impossible, and put together a set in 10 days, with only Donal's occasional presence to encourage them.
All in all a bizarre experiment, using trad music in the "reality show" arena - didn't excite me, but I'd like to hear the band (or what's left) after a while together; they're all great musicians.
# Posted on April 20th 2010 by RockyRoader
Re: lorg lunny success or car crash?
The singer did NOT take the advice of Paul Brady. She still sounded like she was putting on airs rather than singing them.
The drum thing was a joke. Even Noel the drum master who came in for a visit while Donal was in town for the day said so. I was screaming at the computer halfway though: "Damn it man, let the lad play his goat skin!!!" Yes, I was screaming for more bodhran. [shakes head sadly]
I also found myself picking out the usual tricks all bands have now. For sets or arrangements there's always a few things that must (I guess) be done:
The Build: Usually starts sparingly with a flute or whistle, and slowly builds during the set to include the whole group flying at full volume.
The Showcase: Where band members take turns playing 'lead' during the same set.
The Tempo Change: The start a slow tune then jack it into a fast tune for cheap thrills routine. Always a classic.
For that last one, they did have the Rainbow, so it went slow, fast, slow.
Cathal reminded me of these thoughts above with his:
"...left us listening to formulas (as opposed to tunes or sets of tunes)..."
'Zactly. But very educational for any band out there who wants to play the formulas as handed down by the gods themselves. (or Donal, in this case)
All that being said, it was a pretty cool show. Very interesting!
# Posted on April 20th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler