I am involved in a large publishing project and would like some help identifying titles and possibly composers of 2 Irish reels. They are both inthe key of D. One was recorded by Altan on Horse with a Heart and follows Three Scones of Boxty. Altan does not identify it. The other is called Martin Hayes, but I can't find it under that title when I search the music sites, so I suspect it is incorrect. I have already asked Philippe Varlet and B Black (among others) about these tunes, and they did not have any information about them. I am also looking for further information on an A reel, Siobhan O'Donnell's. I am seeking the composer of this tune, who is apparently not Siobhan. I would really appreciate any further information about these tunes.
Have you emailed your first query to Altan? I did that once and got a prompt reply. But realize that lots of musicians don't have names for every tune. When Altan lists a tune as unknown or gan ainm, that's better than making up a name, and they usually follow the custom of at least giving their source for the tune, if they can recall who it was.
On the "Martin Hayes" tune, we'd all need a lot more to go on. Has it been recorded or printed? Where? What type of tune is it (reel, jig, etc.) and what key/mode (at least in the version you're trying to document)?
Er, and you might generate more assistance if you breifly describe your project. Or that might backfire, if, say, you're compiling info in a way that might directly or indirectly lead to copyright issues....
Interestingly, Alan Ng's "tunography" (www.irishtune.info) has no alternate names for the Altan tune, and lists Horse with a Heart as the only instance of it on a recording. It also didn't show up in any of his printed sources.
But this isn't altogether surprising, except for the fact that no one else has picked up this tune and plopped it onto their own cd....
Thanks all of you for your help thus far. I'll answer the questions that have been raised. The project is a book, The Portland Collection: Contra Dance Music in the Pacific Northwest, Vol 2. In this collection of over 300 tunes, around 85 have Irish roots and we are estimating around 150 of them to be recently composed. We do our very best to identify tunes accurately, track down the composers, obtain permission to print their tunes, and pay royalties. (There is a Vol 1 of similar size and composition--info about both is at www.theportlandcollection.com). Anyway, we are very grateful to the many people who have helped us gather information for both of these books.
Concerning the tunes in question here--the only other recording I know of of the Altan tune is on a cd by fiddler Nat Hewitt (cd has the same title) where he names it, incorrectly, The Three Scones of Boxty. He told me he knew the title was wrong. Good idea to talk to Altan. I have been in touch with their manager about another tune, and I'll give it a try on this tune. But would still like any info that can be generated here.
Martin Hayes was recorded by Kerry Elkin on Turning of the Tide. I don't know of any other recordings, and extensive Web searches haven't turned up anything. Danny Novek played on this recording as well--he has referred me to Philippe Varlet who does not know the title (but thinks he has heard it before with a slightly different A part). I'll attempt to a little ABC notation (I don't really know how to do this so may not get it quite right). It's in Dmaj: 1st 2 meas of A part are F2B2A2 FA | dcdA BAFE. First 2 meas of B part are--dcdf E2 cA | dcdA BAFA.
Siobhan O'Donnell's is an A reel that begins on middle A and goes to the high A with an arpeggio on A. It can be found in several tune indexes on the Web and sometimes has Siobhan listed as the composer. it has been recorded by Dervish and a couple of other artists. I am more interested in finding Siobhan herself at this point.
There are several other tunes I am trying to track down as well. For now, I have other leads to follow up on for each of them. But perhaps I'll post questions about them here later on.
Susan, your Portland Collection (Volume 1) is a great resource. Your research into composers, permissions, and giving credit (and royalties) where's it's due must be a massive job. Good hunting on these and other tunes. There are some knowledgeable people here--even more that come out of hiding when you pique their interest--so don't hesitate to post more queries.
P.S. Josie McDermott passed away in 1992. Every year since, a Josie McDermott festival is held in May in the town of Ballyfarnon, Co. Roscommon, a short distance from his home in Coolmeen, Co. Sligo. The McDermott's have ancient roots in the area...your best bet for obtaining permission might be to contact the festival organizers. No doubt there's info on the web somewhere.
In case you have transcribed just the Altan version, Seamus Egan played a version of the McDermott reel, on the whistle, on his solo album, "Traditional Music of Ireland" that he recorded when he was 16. It's quite different from the Altan one, so might be worth a listen to also.
Hi, Susan, - I suggest you look at the comments on "Gan Ainm" submitted by Will 2 days ago. I would have posted to this thread , but came acroos his posted tune first. Sorry if I've put a spanner in the works.
Thanks. I'm going to follow up on this on Gan Ainm. Meanwhile...if anyone knows anything abut the Martin Hayes tune, I'd love to hear it. Maybe I try figuring out how to post it as Gan Ainm.
Susan, if you don't mind a spare set of eyes, I'd be happy to glance over your abcs before you post. We do that sort of thing all the time here. Send 'em by email (click on my name at the end of this post, and again on "Send an email").
Seeking Help Identifying Tunes
Seeking Help Identifying Tunes
Hello--
I am involved in a large publishing project and would like some help identifying titles and possibly composers of 2 Irish reels. They are both inthe key of D. One was recorded by Altan on Horse with a Heart and follows Three Scones of Boxty. Altan does not identify it. The other is called Martin Hayes, but I can't find it under that title when I search the music sites, so I suspect it is incorrect. I have already asked Philippe Varlet and B Black (among others) about these tunes, and they did not have any information about them. I am also looking for further information on an A reel, Siobhan O'Donnell's. I am seeking the composer of this tune, who is apparently not Siobhan. I would really appreciate any further information about these tunes.
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by songer
Re: Seeking Help Identifying Tunes
Have you emailed your first query to Altan? I did that once and got a prompt reply. But realize that lots of musicians don't have names for every tune. When Altan lists a tune as unknown or gan ainm, that's better than making up a name, and they usually follow the custom of at least giving their source for the tune, if they can recall who it was.
On the "Martin Hayes" tune, we'd all need a lot more to go on. Has it been recorded or printed? Where? What type of tune is it (reel, jig, etc.) and what key/mode (at least in the version you're trying to document)?
Er, and you might generate more assistance if you breifly describe your project. Or that might backfire, if, say, you're compiling info in a way that might directly or indirectly lead to copyright issues....
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Seeking Help Identifying Tunes
Interestingly, Alan Ng's "tunography" (www.irishtune.info) has no alternate names for the Altan tune, and lists Horse with a Heart as the only instance of it on a recording. It also didn't show up in any of his printed sources.
But this isn't altogether surprising, except for the fact that no one else has picked up this tune and plopped it onto their own cd....
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Seeking Help Identifying Tunes
The tune after "Three Scones of Boxty" is another composition of Josie McDermott's, its called "The Landsdowne Lass"
He wrote some fantastic tunes.
You'll find it in Heinrick Norbecks database.
http://www.norbeck.nu/abc/
Need more clues for the other tunes.....
Pat
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Pat Higgins
Re: Seeking Help Identifying Tunes
So it is--thanks Pat.
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Seeking Help Identifying Tunes
Thanks all of you for your help thus far. I'll answer the questions that have been raised. The project is a book, The Portland Collection: Contra Dance Music in the Pacific Northwest, Vol 2. In this collection of over 300 tunes, around 85 have Irish roots and we are estimating around 150 of them to be recently composed. We do our very best to identify tunes accurately, track down the composers, obtain permission to print their tunes, and pay royalties. (There is a Vol 1 of similar size and composition--info about both is at www.theportlandcollection.com). Anyway, we are very grateful to the many people who have helped us gather information for both of these books.
Concerning the tunes in question here--the only other recording I know of of the Altan tune is on a cd by fiddler Nat Hewitt (cd has the same title) where he names it, incorrectly, The Three Scones of Boxty. He told me he knew the title was wrong. Good idea to talk to Altan. I have been in touch with their manager about another tune, and I'll give it a try on this tune. But would still like any info that can be generated here.
Martin Hayes was recorded by Kerry Elkin on Turning of the Tide. I don't know of any other recordings, and extensive Web searches haven't turned up anything. Danny Novek played on this recording as well--he has referred me to Philippe Varlet who does not know the title (but thinks he has heard it before with a slightly different A part). I'll attempt to a little ABC notation (I don't really know how to do this so may not get it quite right). It's in Dmaj: 1st 2 meas of A part are F2B2A2 FA | dcdA BAFE. First 2 meas of B part are--dcdf E2 cA | dcdA BAFA.
Siobhan O'Donnell's is an A reel that begins on middle A and goes to the high A with an arpeggio on A. It can be found in several tune indexes on the Web and sometimes has Siobhan listed as the composer. it has been recorded by Dervish and a couple of other artists. I am more interested in finding Siobhan herself at this point.
There are several other tunes I am trying to track down as well. For now, I have other leads to follow up on for each of them. But perhaps I'll post questions about them here later on.
Thanks again to all who have responded!
Susan Songer
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by songer
Re: Seeking Help Identifying Tunes
Susan, your Portland Collection (Volume 1) is a great resource. Your research into composers, permissions, and giving credit (and royalties) where's it's due must be a massive job. Good hunting on these and other tunes. There are some knowledgeable people here--even more that come out of hiding when you pique their interest--so don't hesitate to post more queries.
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Seeking Help Identifying Tunes
P.S. Josie McDermott passed away in 1992. Every year since, a Josie McDermott festival is held in May in the town of Ballyfarnon, Co. Roscommon, a short distance from his home in Coolmeen, Co. Sligo. The McDermott's have ancient roots in the area...your best bet for obtaining permission might be to contact the festival organizers. No doubt there's info on the web somewhere.
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Seeking Help Identifying Tunes
In case you have transcribed just the Altan version, Seamus Egan played a version of the McDermott reel, on the whistle, on his solo album, "Traditional Music of Ireland" that he recorded when he was 16. It's quite different from the Altan one, so might be worth a listen to also.
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by Nick Splease
Re: Attention, Songer !
Hi, Susan, - I suggest you look at the comments on "Gan Ainm" submitted by Will 2 days ago. I would have posted to this thread , but came acroos his posted tune first. Sorry if I've put a spanner in the works.
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by Kenny
Re: Seeking Help Identifying Tunes
The saga continues....
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/2172
# Posted on November 21st 2003 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Seeking Help Identifying Tunes
Kenny--
Thanks. I'm going to follow up on this on Gan Ainm. Meanwhile...if anyone knows anything abut the Martin Hayes tune, I'd love to hear it. Maybe I try figuring out how to post it as Gan Ainm.
Susan
# Posted on November 21st 2003 by songer
Re: Seeking Help Identifying Tunes
Susan, if you don't mind a spare set of eyes, I'd be happy to glance over your abcs before you post. We do that sort of thing all the time here. Send 'em by email (click on my name at the end of this post, and again on "Send an email").
# Posted on November 21st 2003 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Seeking Help Identifying Tunes
I just posted the Martin Hayes tune in the data base here--please take a look and see if it rings a bell.
# Posted on November 24th 2003 by Miss Lonelyhearts