Is it too late to try to meet up with some of the London & environs The Session heads if they are going to this?
I'll probably leave from work at Denmark Hill about 5.30.
BTW to our American friends - this is not a "Yankee Go Home!" demo - just a word in Dubya's ear about what we think of the hypocrisy of his administation WRT Iraq. After all, he wasn't even democratically elected by the American people.
I'm with ya from the other side of the pond. Support for the Iraq war wasn't uniform among Americans to begin with, and what there was of it is rapidly waning.
I'll be up from mid-afternoon (student these days you see!) but I'll keep my eyes posted to this to see if there's any chance of a rendezvous. By the way, when is the London 'The Session' pre-Christmas session? It needs a bit of urgent organising. I'm suggesting Saturday 13th December. Any thoughts. See you in the back of the Paddywagon.
Good for you, protest,... a majority of American's are vehemently against the policies of that horrid administration, myself included, and support your efforts. Sadly, it will have no effect. just watch Bush's arrogant face. His mind is impenetrable, disgusting. Just hold on till we vote his arse out in '04!!!
I watched in horror tonight on the telly some kids outside the american embassy in edinburgh. They had a cardboard cut out George W which they kicked to bits and then set fire too. And they did this with glee in their faces.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro the war, or pro Bush, but this is worse than pots and black kettles.
I won't be in the big soot this week, but if any of you guys see this sort of thing going on. I suggest you intervene.
Who is the biggest coward in 2 centuaries, the man who ordered the armies into a country that he had well checked out, that had nothing to stop him or the man who ran away really scared when the wee boys in N. korea said " come on you..... we are waiting for you", or who ?
S.B
Would that be a pre-emptive intervention you're recommending? If anyone actually considers taking your - ahem- advice, maybe they should come up with a solid exit plan beforehand. Just in case.
heehee - luckily when GWB visited australia -he literally came for less than 24 hours - we send hundreds of troops to back him up and he could spare less than 24 hours for us- well - lets just say we feel very appreciated (or lucky -whichever way you want to look at it)!! Ah Michael - glad to see youre now trying to rile people up in a political way as well! Did I mention - (I'm sure I did) that I met two people you play music with regularly and they assured me you were a nice guy! Sorry - you've still not proved them right - good luck in the future tho - I'm sure you'll work out how to interact with other people at some stage in your life (see, smiley face -just to let you know I'm taking the p*ss!)
Actually, I happen to agree with Michael, not because I voted for Bush or happen to like his politics, but it's sickening to see people let Bush push them into acting just like him...
OK Michael - in the light of those other comments, I thought about it and admit I'm wrong - apologies for the coded abuse. 2 wrongs don't make right. After all that - I won't be able to make the demo myself. My little boy is sick so I'll have to take the morning off then go in late and work on late, which might well be till about 9.00 or 10.00pm, so I might not even make the Blythe, but kids come first.
I was through in Glasgow yesterday for a concert (Emmy Lou) and observed the protest march in George Square. There were about 50-100 people leading the procession and banging on all varieties of drum/percussion. I thought that there would be a few happy music sessions in Glasgow that night if these drummers were otherwise engaged or, maybe, they might be shi--ing themselves in case some of them turned up. )
Glasgow is not alone! Last night an effigy of Pres. Bush was incinerated in Bristol city centre. There was a large demo which went on from 5pm to well past 9pm. The normal traffic congestion in Bristol being what it is, this demo couldn't have been held at a worse time, in the evening rush hour. The police were severely stretched trying to contain it, the M32 motorway in and out of Bristol was blocked at one stage with a sit-down protest, and fire-engines and ambulances were unable to get to unrelated incidents. There were no arrests.
Leaving aside the rights and wrongs of US intervention in Iraq (my opinion on which is closely related to those set out in this discussion) I would certainly side with Michael in his pots and black kettles comments.
Further to what I have just posted, it seems that the web page address I gave (which I copied directly from the page) generates a "Bad Gateway" message. In that case, go to http://www.thisisbristol.com
choose Bristol Evening Post from the top menu, go to News, and browse from there.
Trevor
Oh, then you'd love this e-mail I got the other day, Mark...it proudly announces in huge letters that they've got "the solution to penis enlargement!" I sent it on to Will, who suggested that having a look at a pic of Howard Stern's backside would probably work just as well.
I get those e-mails all the time - hotmail spam
Presumably some people must actually reply to those e-mails otherwise they wouldn't send them out. I just thank the lord I got a top class instrument
They report that 25 Brits lost their lives this AM in a protest bombing along with 400 wounded and 100 Million in property damage. This would not have occured if Bush had syayed HOME.
The mayor of London reports that the Bush security in London cost $8.5 million including 14,000 police. All this, he said, "So Bush can have a photo-op with the Queen to be used in his upcoming re-election campaign".
The Mayor rightly requested the Republican National Committee to please reimburse the city of London for the $8.5 mill.
9.00pm & I've done all I intend to - just heard on the radio that the police estimate was 110,000 people - it's usually safe to treble or quadruple that to get a real estimate....so it could have been 440,001 if I'd gone...
I'm just back in the door from London. At Trafalgar Square the organisers estimated there were 350,000 of us there. At the big Hyde Park March way months back when estimates wavered between one and two million, I asked a copper how many people he thought were marching. 'Oh, around 85,000' he said sagely. 'Tis not for nothing they are known as The Filth.
Oh, now, Paul, Tommy Peoples was once upon a time a Gard in Dublin!
...Slightly different from yer average Met copper right enough.
Grrrr...I wish I'd been there. What can one do when the wean is sick though. And capricious as weans are, he now looks like he's on the mend (I hope!) --so what did I say say? 3-4 times the police estimate? So 350K seems about right. Managed to get down to the Blythe, though, where we had a good old session and gossip...
Being an American, though living in Europe at the moment, I'd have to agree. Bush should have stayed home.
I was in the U.S. during those elections and I didn't vote for him. He's worse than his father was. And now we have "Arnold" as the Governor of California, my home state. Now THAT'S embarassing. What's happening???
Missed the demo....working and missed the session at the Blythe - Mel kept us drinking at his house round the corner! Oh well might make it there in 2 weeks
I definitely support anyone who (peacefully) demonstrates against Bush. I am more afraid of what he does in my (as an american citizen) name than any other force in this world. Nothing made me feel less secure in this world than his speach after 9/11 where he gave himself the right to declare war on any nation he wanted to. And now, with Arnold (or should I say Ahnold) as governer here in California, thanks to all the propaganda right before the election, I really want out of this state, not to mention this country.
It sometimes amazes me how dense some of my fellow contrymen are. They rely on the heavily biased things they hear on the TV, rather than reading up on the issues themselves. Sometimes I wonder what the outcome of an election would be if, instead of a name appearing on a ballot, we saw the platforms of the cadidates themselves. In that case who would vote for "elliminate natural preserves, support big companies at the expence of small ones, cut financial support for schools, go to war, etc."? I've only been legal to vote for a little while (my vote lost to Bush on my first election) and I keep losing. Maybe I'm just a bitter young person that feels powerless when dealing with "the system". Grrrrr! Okay, sorry, end of rant. This is neither the time nor the place...
It's not just the majority of Americans who are thick. Maybe we Europeans are better at hiding it. More like the media here isn't so all-pervasive, or something. You want to read Michael Moore's Stupid White Men about how Dubya managed to get himself installed in the White House despite losing the election. Let's hope a precedent hasn't been established, or that the practice doesn't spread.
The optimist of history would proclaim joyfully that we now live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist, however, fears this to be the case.
After this week, I'm beginning to feel rather pessimistic, politically speaking.
Oh, people are people, essentially. Politics just plays up to the worst of that. It often amazes me that you can see, in one short period, the best in people and the worst in people, often from the same person in one day. I often think that really the largest problem with politics is that it dehumanizes the individual and desensitizes us to the fact that we all just try to get through the day. You can't run politics from the context of the individuals, and that tends to set off the worst in us, in any amount of ways.
fiddleK, you might be interested in this, can't personally vouch for its accuracy but it's from an email bulletin I regularly receive at a music association address from - wait for this - Joe Dolce! Remember him? (You might not, fiddleK if you've just started voting 8>) Seems to be more into "issues" than music these days. (No idea how my association ended up on his list but it's usually good for a laugh and always has a good recipe or two tacked on the end.) This is what he says about young people and voting in the US:
"Hi folks,
This week I ordered my 2004 US Presidential Election absentee ballot from the US Consulate and also officially registered for Australian Citizenship, after being a permanent Australian resident for over 24 years. (Talk about slow to get with the program!) So in about three months, all going well, I should have a big party and then, being a legal dual national, in a position to do my part about both John Howard and George W. Bush. As you will note, from that depressing quote above, only 13% of eligible young people voted in the last US election. ONLY THIRTEEN PERCENT OF ELIGIBLE YOUTH VOTERS! This is just plain UNACCEPTABLE! Kids, you want Bush out? You HAVE to vote. (Read that again.) We have to bury him in a landslide next time - not just a close-call like Florida. It's a lot harder to fiddle with the count of a bloody landslide. So please get yourself registered to vote, if you aren't, and more importantly, get your head prepared well in advance that this is something you will do next year. Even if it's the first time. Then we can all have a big party together."
Sounds like you are one of the 13%. Voting is compulsory here though that doesn't stop folk voting "informal" as we say and wasting their chance.
Oh, and you'll love this, if you want to get off Joe's mailing list, you reply with... (drum roll)... SHADDAPAYOU EMAIL.
" Only 13% of eligible young people cast ballots in the last presidential election. "
Bill Moyers, Keynote Address to the National Conference on Media Reform
It may be compulsory to vote here but we have just as much propaganda (and losers) as the next place. I was in Ireland for the last Federal election and didnt bother to vote (bad, bad, very, very naughty!) because I thought there was no way that Johnny boy would get in. He was copping so much flack about the Tampa issue etc, then Sept 11th happened and his popularity sky rocketed! I cried when I found out he got in again, I just couldnt believe it!
Plus its seems to be an aussie thing that we do it in shifts - like the liberals have been in for almost 10 years now, but before that the Labour party was in for 15 years. God people are fickle!
Tish - who is Joe Dolce?
PS I think its great to have compulsory voting - it stops that exact thing that Joe Dolce was saying, only 13% that is appauling! Plus the people who are most likely to vote if they dont have to are upper class/business types - not usually youth who are too concered about when the pub opens.
Compulsory voting also seems to cut down the pre-election hoop-la ever such a little bit. Politicians try to lure people into voting for them rather than the competition but the fact that they don't also have to entice them to actually vote in the first place seems to cut out at least a bit of the hype and hysteria and flag-flapping and ticker-taping and cheer-leading and ra-ra.
I've been told that police in Bristol were videoing people getting off the coaches of demonstrators returning from London. Perhaps those arriving in London were videoed as well.
Trevor
I am so glad I didn't read this thread til after the fact. Thank you everyone, who went out to protest, & also Danny & anyone else, whose heart was in it. Many of us stateside are mobilizing to get all of our friends, family, etc educated, registered & out there. It can be exceptionally difficult when you face a media conglomerate that is run essentially by 6 men. I have written to my senators supporting recent filibusters in Congress against deplorable judicial nominees, I am actively investigating starting a League of Women Voters on the rez. With any luck I'll be on the East Coast again come election time in a year to jump into the fray. If anyone & everyone who got a 'tax cut' from George W puts it directly towards an effort to remove him from office, we can do it. Also see www.bushorchimp.com. Peace.
Yeah, I didn't see this thread till after the fact either, but here's a double thanks from me & mine! We were very impressed at the size of the demonstration on the news. I appreciated what one protester said when interviewed on the world news, that they weren't anti-american, but actually supportive of america in demonstrating against Bush (good answer).
The Bristol police have announced, in response to people being very annoyed at being videoed when getting off the coaches returning from the London anti-Bush demo that they were legally entitled to do so if they had reason to suspect that there had been trouble in London or that there was going to be trouble in Bristol from those returning (of course, there wasn't any trouble in either place), and that all video tapes were destroyed 48 hours later when it transpired that there was in fact no trouble.
So now we know.
Trevor
Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Is it too late to try to meet up with some of the London & environs The Session heads if they are going to this?
I'll probably leave from work at Denmark Hill about 5.30.
BTW to our American friends - this is not a "Yankee Go Home!" demo - just a word in Dubya's ear about what we think of the hypocrisy of his administation WRT Iraq. After all, he wasn't even democratically elected by the American people.
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
One of our "comfy slipper" tunes at our sesh is a tune from the Rossendale Valley, called "Go George, for I cannot endure you".
My mind is so full of things I could put down that I'll say nowt.
Good luck Danny.
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by showaddydadito
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
I'm with ya from the other side of the pond. Support for the Iraq war wasn't uniform among Americans to begin with, and what there was of it is rapidly waning.
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by carolsviolin
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
I think you'll find a lot of support from those of us across the foam!
Deb.
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by Agnes Nutter
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Don't blame me. I voted for Nade.... oh, wait.
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by jerball
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Here's the website for the Stop the War Coalition with demo details:
http://www.stopwar.org.uk/
I imagine I'll join at Waterloo Bridge at about 6.00pm.
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Danny,
I'll be up from mid-afternoon (student these days you see!) but I'll keep my eyes posted to this to see if there's any chance of a rendezvous. By the way, when is the London 'The Session' pre-Christmas session? It needs a bit of urgent organising. I'm suggesting Saturday 13th December. Any thoughts. See you in the back of the Paddywagon.
Paul.
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by sergeant fox
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Good for you, protest,... a majority of American's are vehemently against the policies of that horrid administration, myself included, and support your efforts. Sadly, it will have no effect. just watch Bush's arrogant face. His mind is impenetrable, disgusting. Just hold on till we vote his arse out in '04!!!
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
I watched in horror tonight on the telly some kids outside the american embassy in edinburgh. They had a cardboard cut out George W which they kicked to bits and then set fire too. And they did this with glee in their faces.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not pro the war, or pro Bush, but this is worse than pots and black kettles.
I won't be in the big soot this week, but if any of you guys see this sort of thing going on. I suggest you intervene.
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by ...
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Who is the biggest coward in 2 centuaries, the man who ordered the armies into a country that he had well checked out, that had nothing to stop him or the man who ran away really scared when the wee boys in N. korea said " come on you..... we are waiting for you", or who ?
S.B
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by boorinwood
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Michael Gill-
Would that be a pre-emptive intervention you're recommending? If anyone actually considers taking your - ahem- advice, maybe they should come up with a solid exit plan beforehand. Just in case.
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by glenn
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
heehee - luckily when GWB visited australia -he literally came for less than 24 hours - we send hundreds of troops to back him up and he could spare less than 24 hours for us- well - lets just say we feel very appreciated (or lucky -whichever way you want to look at it)!!
Ah Michael - glad to see youre now trying to rile people up in a political way as well! Did I mention - (I'm sure I did) that I met two people you play music with regularly and they assured me you were a nice guy! Sorry - you've still not proved them right - good luck in the future tho - I'm sure you'll work out how to interact with other people at some stage in your life
(see, smiley face -just to let you know I'm taking the p*ss!)
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by bb
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
nice guy nothing. what a Ravi Shankar.
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Actually, I happen to agree with Michael, not because I voted for Bush or happen to like his politics, but it's sickening to see people let Bush push them into acting just like him...
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Yeah - Good point Zina, but you must admit - MG was only saying for a rise.
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by bb
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Hard to tell with Michael, y'know what I mean. ;)
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
OK Michael - in the light of those other comments, I thought about it and admit I'm wrong - apologies for the coded abuse. 2 wrongs don't make right. After all that - I won't be able to make the demo myself. My little boy is sick so I'll have to take the morning off then go in late and work on late, which might well be till about 9.00 or 10.00pm, so I might not even make the Blythe, but kids come first.
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
I was through in Glasgow yesterday for a concert (Emmy Lou) and observed the protest march in George Square. There were about 50-100 people leading the procession and banging on all varieties of drum/percussion. I thought that there would be a few happy music sessions in Glasgow that night if these drummers were otherwise engaged or, maybe, they might be shi--ing themselves in case some of them turned up.
)
John
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Johnny Jay
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Ni rise at all. I really did watch that thing on the telly in horror. (But I can ber a bit of a wanker)
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by ...
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Oh, poor Fergus. Hope he feels better soon, little mite.
Michael, it's when you come out with stuff like that last that makes you bearable. *grin*
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Glasgow is not alone! Last night an effigy of Pres. Bush was incinerated in Bristol city centre. There was a large demo which went on from 5pm to well past 9pm. The normal traffic congestion in Bristol being what it is, this demo couldn't have been held at a worse time, in the evening rush hour. The police were severely stretched trying to contain it, the M32 motorway in and out of Bristol was blocked at one stage with a sit-down protest, and fire-engines and ambulances were unable to get to unrelated incidents. There were no arrests.
Leaving aside the rights and wrongs of US intervention in Iraq (my opinion on which is closely related to those set out in this discussion) I would certainly side with Michael in his pots and black kettles comments.
You should be able to pick up the detailed story on this page on the Bristol Evening Post's website:
http://www.thisisbristol.com/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=86419&command=displayContent&sourceNode=86416&contentPK=7844840
Trevor
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Further to what I have just posted, it seems that the web page address I gave (which I copied directly from the page) generates a "Bad Gateway" message. In that case, go to
http://www.thisisbristol.com
choose Bristol Evening Post from the top menu, go to News, and browse from there.
Trevor
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Danny, whaddya wanna stop the Bush demo for?
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by Dr. Dow
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
(Sorry, I studied literary criticism for a year and we did a lesson on "ambiguity in headlines")...
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by Dr. Dow
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Oh, then you'd love this e-mail I got the other day, Mark...it proudly announces in huge letters that they've got "the solution to penis enlargement!" I sent it on to Will, who suggested that having a look at a pic of Howard Stern's backside would probably work just as well.
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
I get those e-mails all the time - hotmail spam
Presumably some people must actually reply to those e-mails otherwise they wouldn't send them out. I just thank the lord I got a top class instrument
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by Dr. Dow
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
They report that 25 Brits lost their lives this AM in a protest bombing along with 400 wounded and 100 Million in property damage. This would not have occured if Bush had syayed HOME.
The mayor of London reports that the Bush security in London cost $8.5 million including 14,000 police. All this, he said, "So Bush can have a photo-op with the Queen to be used in his upcoming re-election campaign".
The Mayor rightly requested the Republican National Committee to please reimburse the city of London for the $8.5 mill.
Bush is pathetic.
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by irish ruff
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
9.00pm & I've done all I intend to - just heard on the radio that the police estimate was 110,000 people - it's usually safe to treble or quadruple that to get a real estimate....so it could have been 440,001 if I'd gone...
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Hi Danny,
I'm just back in the door from London. At Trafalgar Square the organisers estimated there were 350,000 of us there. At the big Hyde Park March way months back when estimates wavered between one and two million, I asked a copper how many people he thought were marching. 'Oh, around 85,000' he said sagely. 'Tis not for nothing they are known as The Filth.
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by sergeant fox
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Oh, now, Paul, Tommy Peoples was once upon a time a Gard in Dublin!
...Slightly different from yer average Met copper right enough.
Grrrr...I wish I'd been there. What can one do when the wean is sick though. And capricious as weans are, he now looks like he's on the mend (I hope!) --so what did I say say? 3-4 times the police estimate? So 350K seems about right. Managed to get down to the Blythe, though, where we had a good old session and gossip...
Psychosis is a terrible illness.
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Being an American, though living in Europe at the moment, I'd have to agree. Bush should have stayed home.
I was in the U.S. during those elections and I didn't vote for him. He's worse than his father was. And now we have "Arnold" as the Governor of California, my home state. Now THAT'S embarassing. What's happening???
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by Grack
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Missed the demo....working and missed the session at the Blythe - Mel kept us drinking at his house round the corner! Oh well might make it there in 2 weeks
Sarah
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by Sarah the Flute
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Hey Sarah, try this one...
Egan's Polka, Egan's Polka
It's the one with only Two notes.
Egan's Polka, Egan's Polka,
How I hate that Bloody tune.
(second part)
Egan's Polka, it's got Two notes,
It don't matter in what order.
Egan's Polka, Egan's Polka,
How I hate that Bloody tune.
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by Ottery
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Yeah yeah yeah......
Ummmm am I in the right thread here??????
Oh yeah ... Friday!
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by Sarah the Flute
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
LOL -- Oh Mark, these are priceless...
# Posted on November 21st 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
I definitely support anyone who (peacefully) demonstrates against Bush. I am more afraid of what he does in my (as an american citizen) name than any other force in this world. Nothing made me feel less secure in this world than his speach after 9/11 where he gave himself the right to declare war on any nation he wanted to. And now, with Arnold (or should I say Ahnold) as governer here in California, thanks to all the propaganda right before the election, I really want out of this state, not to mention this country.
It sometimes amazes me how dense some of my fellow contrymen are. They rely on the heavily biased things they hear on the TV, rather than reading up on the issues themselves. Sometimes I wonder what the outcome of an election would be if, instead of a name appearing on a ballot, we saw the platforms of the cadidates themselves. In that case who would vote for "elliminate natural preserves, support big companies at the expence of small ones, cut financial support for schools, go to war, etc."? I've only been legal to vote for a little while (my vote lost to Bush on my first election) and I keep losing. Maybe I'm just a bitter young person that feels powerless when dealing with "the system". Grrrrr! Okay, sorry, end of rant. This is neither the time nor the place...
# Posted on November 21st 2003 by fiddleK
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
It's not just the majority of Americans who are thick. Maybe we Europeans are better at hiding it. More like the media here isn't so all-pervasive, or something. You want to read Michael Moore's Stupid White Men about how Dubya managed to get himself installed in the White House despite losing the election. Let's hope a precedent hasn't been established, or that the practice doesn't spread.
The optimist of history would proclaim joyfully that we now live in the best of all possible worlds. The pessimist, however, fears this to be the case.
After this week, I'm beginning to feel rather pessimistic, politically speaking.
Danny.
# Posted on November 21st 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Oh, people are people, essentially. Politics just plays up to the worst of that. It often amazes me that you can see, in one short period, the best in people and the worst in people, often from the same person in one day. I often think that really the largest problem with politics is that it dehumanizes the individual and desensitizes us to the fact that we all just try to get through the day. You can't run politics from the context of the individuals, and that tends to set off the worst in us, in any amount of ways.
# Posted on November 21st 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
fiddleK, you might be interested in this, can't personally vouch for its accuracy but it's from an email bulletin I regularly receive at a music association address from - wait for this - Joe Dolce! Remember him? (You might not, fiddleK if you've just started voting 8>) Seems to be more into "issues" than music these days. (No idea how my association ended up on his list but it's usually good for a laugh and always has a good recipe or two tacked on the end.) This is what he says about young people and voting in the US:
"Hi folks,
This week I ordered my 2004 US Presidential Election absentee ballot from the US Consulate and also officially registered for Australian Citizenship, after being a permanent Australian resident for over 24 years. (Talk about slow to get with the program!) So in about three months, all going well, I should have a big party and then, being a legal dual national, in a position to do my part about both John Howard and George W. Bush. As you will note, from that depressing quote above, only 13% of eligible young people voted in the last US election. ONLY THIRTEEN PERCENT OF ELIGIBLE YOUTH VOTERS! This is just plain UNACCEPTABLE! Kids, you want Bush out? You HAVE to vote. (Read that again.) We have to bury him in a landslide next time - not just a close-call like Florida. It's a lot harder to fiddle with the count of a bloody landslide. So please get yourself registered to vote, if you aren't, and more importantly, get your head prepared well in advance that this is something you will do next year. Even if it's the first time. Then we can all have a big party together."
Sounds like you are one of the 13%. Voting is compulsory here though that doesn't stop folk voting "informal" as we say and wasting their chance.
Oh, and you'll love this, if you want to get off Joe's mailing list, you reply with... (drum roll)... SHADDAPAYOU EMAIL.
# Posted on November 21st 2003 by Tish
Sorry, forgot the "depressing quote above"
Here it is:
" Only 13% of eligible young people cast ballots in the last presidential election. "
Bill Moyers, Keynote Address to the National Conference on Media Reform
# Posted on November 21st 2003 by Tish
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
At least in Australia it's illegal not to vote!
...emm....actually,....is that still the case, ANZAC's? Cue for the Aussie shift...
(But, then, what good did that do them, they've got Howard the Coward, for another term, 3rd member of the axis of evil of Bush, Blair and himself).
# Posted on November 21st 2003 by Rudall the time
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
That's right Danny, as noted above, voting is compulsory in Australia.
# Posted on November 21st 2003 by Tish
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
It may be compulsory to vote here but we have just as much propaganda (and losers) as the next place. I was in Ireland for the last Federal election and didnt bother to vote (bad, bad, very, very naughty!) because I thought there was no way that Johnny boy would get in. He was copping so much flack about the Tampa issue etc, then Sept 11th happened and his popularity sky rocketed! I cried when I found out he got in again, I just couldnt believe it!
Plus its seems to be an aussie thing that we do it in shifts - like the liberals have been in for almost 10 years now, but before that the Labour party was in for 15 years. God people are fickle!
Tish - who is Joe Dolce?
# Posted on November 21st 2003 by bb
PS I think its great to have compulsory voting - it stops that exact thing that Joe Dolce was saying, only 13% that is appauling! Plus the people who are most likely to vote if they dont have to are upper class/business types - not usually youth who are too concered about when the pub opens.
# Posted on November 21st 2003 by bb
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
bb, whatsamatter you, you gotta no respect?
Haven't you heard the song, "Shaddupayou Face"?
# Posted on November 21st 2003 by Tish
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Ohhhhh - wow - and he wants to be an Aussie? I feel so honoured cause 'itsa lovley place'
# Posted on November 21st 2003 by bb
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Compulsory voting also seems to cut down the pre-election hoop-la ever such a little bit. Politicians try to lure people into voting for them rather than the competition but the fact that they don't also have to entice them to actually vote in the first place seems to cut out at least a bit of the hype and hysteria and flag-flapping and ticker-taping and cheer-leading and ra-ra.
# Posted on November 21st 2003 by Tish
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
RE George "Dubya"- Let's not elect him in 2004, either!
# Posted on November 22nd 2003 by Murph
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
I've been told that police in Bristol were videoing people getting off the coaches of demonstrators returning from London. Perhaps those arriving in London were videoed as well.
Trevor
# Posted on November 23rd 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
I am so glad I didn't read this thread til after the fact. Thank you everyone, who went out to protest, & also Danny & anyone else, whose heart was in it. Many of us stateside are mobilizing to get all of our friends, family, etc educated, registered & out there. It can be exceptionally difficult when you face a media conglomerate that is run essentially by 6 men. I have written to my senators supporting recent filibusters in Congress against deplorable judicial nominees, I am actively investigating starting a League of Women Voters on the rez. With any luck I'll be on the East Coast again come election time in a year to jump into the fray. If anyone & everyone who got a 'tax cut' from George W puts it directly towards an effort to remove him from office, we can do it. Also see www.bushorchimp.com. Peace.
# Posted on November 23rd 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Yeah, I didn't see this thread till after the fact either, but here's a double thanks from me & mine! We were very impressed at the size of the demonstration on the news. I appreciated what one protester said when interviewed on the world news, that they weren't anti-american, but actually supportive of america in demonstrating against Bush (good answer).
# Posted on November 25th 2003 by cdavick
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
The Bristol police have announced, in response to people being very annoyed at being videoed when getting off the coaches returning from the London anti-Bush demo that they were legally entitled to do so if they had reason to suspect that there had been trouble in London or that there was going to be trouble in Bristol from those returning (of course, there wasn't any trouble in either place), and that all video tapes were destroyed 48 hours later when it transpired that there was in fact no trouble.
So now we know.
Trevor
# Posted on November 26th 2003 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
Don't forget Will's emoticon :-\. Hmm where is that vertical line anyway?
# Posted on November 26th 2003 by emily_bmore
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
On your keyboard, probably over the backslash.
# Posted on November 26th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Stop Bush Demo, London,Thursday 20th Nov.'03
So now we know. :-|
TY Zina.
# Posted on November 26th 2003 by emily_bmore