Firstly - just to say - fantastic website! Gotta love the internet
Basically, one of my friends is massively into folk - she played alot when she was back in scotland and has fairly recently discovered the folk scene here (oxford). Being a musical friend, this seemed like a great opportunity for me to get into folk - it always looks like good fun and the folkies I knew back in Brighton were phenomenal players.
However, being completely new to it, I have no idea where to start! And thus my question - what are some good starting points for tunes to learn? I'd like to get a core range of tunes under my fingers before starting to get into the folk scene here... I've got a decent enough ear but i wanna know at least some tunes first! I'm classically trained originally, although i'm listening to plenty of folk to get the style down, and i'd love to branch out given that, the more music you play, the better you get!
I guess i should probably mention the biggest barrier to being taken seriously - I'm a bassoonist - which is clearly not standard in the folk community... but it still sounds pretty decent and i can pretty much keep up with my fiddle playing friend so I personally can't see a problem!
So yeah - any shout-outs for any core repertoire (for lack of a better word) that a newbie should learn would be very much appreciated.
Hey Matt - welcome to thesession.org. listen, if you're going to play a woodwind instrument at folk jams, you should probably get one that's more traditional. Bombardes are always welcome at our session (just don't point it at us)
You can save yourself a lot of hassle, heartache, and ridicule if you play a traditional instrument when playing traditional music.
I know several pipers, flute players, and whistle players that started out playing other forms of music on different wind instruments. So you might consider that route.
It will also help to further define exactly what kind of music you would like to play, other than just "folk". There are several different styles of traditional music in that part of the world. They share some similarities, but are each a distinct style of music.
Anyway, welcome the thesession. You might brace yourself for a bit of a barrage of differing opinions, some of them not so tempered. But if you're truly interested in becoming involved in one or more of the traditional music forms, you'll likely find yourself fully addicted like the rest of us!
P.S. Not bad for a "first post", knowing how to produce a on this board...
But just 'newbie' will suffice. "Folkie' is not a well recieved noun in this neck of the woods... In general not to be taken seriously, so things can get a bit sarcastic down the line.
For our help, what instrument or instruments, aside from the bassoon, have you decided to pick up and pursue? That will help us some in suggesting tunes to start out with.
Before it takes of ~ ears first ~ so put aside, if you can, any dot addiction you might have picked up from your foray into the deep realms of the lovely bassoon and its repertoire. We can not only recommend tunes but recordings to feed your ears and understanding. But let us know what instrument you've chosen.
Here are a few places to find lists of standard session tunes, or by popularity, some determination of that ~
Go here to read the FAQs, then click on the [ Tunebook ] tab to see some take on popularity here.
thanks for the prompt replies! i knew revealing what i played would be an error - I got into jazz a year or two ago and the number of funny looks i got when i put "jazz" and "bassoon" in the same sentence - if only I had a camera... i'm used to the ridicule etc and i had a similar reaction from my friend when i said i was interested (i've never seen someone's eyebrows look so quizzical!) - having heard some of the first tunes she showed me, she doesn't rip me too much any more (aside from generally not knowing much about folk!). of course - if playing folk bassoon is completely futile, i'll pick up another instrument - any recommendations for what a wind player might switch to would be appreciated (i don't play any string instruments so it would probs need to be wind - the whistle appeals most i think). but, for now, i'd like to stick with the bassoon
@disillusioned & ceolachan - "learning off others" - i'm primarily learning off my friend, but given that i've only really been introduced to it recently, i really haven't got very far! the problem i've got is, going to lots of sessions is not really an option (instrument choice is an obvious barrier, along with not knowing any tunes, plus time constraints), and i'd like to "catch up" a bit given that most players have been playing for ages, maybe even grown up with it, and by contrast i know nothing!
@Reverend - "what folk" - that's kinda part of the problem really - i have no idea! i'd love to sample all of it - my friend being scottish mostly has stuff she's learnt from her hometown. at the moment i have nowhere else to start - i completely hold my hands up and say i'm coming here completely blind and need a hand...
@ceolachan - i did print some dots off but, given that all the dots are in treble clef on here, i found playing by ear easier - i have a decent ear for a classical musician (which translates as an awful ear for almost every other genre of music) so playing by ear isn't too painful - I'll be sure to stick to that in future and, i didn't see the list of popular tunes - seems like a good place to start, thanks!
This probably won't help if you want to learn the tunes usually played in session. I just have a gut feeling you might enjoy listening to Kathryn Tickell; http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/2625
I know there are some videos on YouTube.
Matt, if you really do want to take a basson to sessions you might want to develop some banterworthy repertoire as well. Here is a good place to begin . . .
Re: "A penguin goes into a bar..."
Posted on August 8th 2006 by Zazzaliss http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/10853/comments#comment224048
God help you and good luck. You've jumped into a real box of frogs here. Don't let yourself be thrown out by *anything* anyone says - that's the key to survival.
If perchance you play the *clarinet*, as well as the bassoon, much exotic trad - though not the core Irish / Scottish stuff - is your oyster. Its wild and frenzied squallings fuel the revels of the Balkan tribes and Jewish weddings in Golders Green. For Jewish Klezmer music, check out Moishe's Bagel, Andy Statman and more on YouTube / the Net.
Learning the penny whistle is a good idea. Irish and UK dance tunes nearly all require one in the key of D. In brief - it's an easy instrument to get the hang of, as they go, but there are knacks that must be learnt. Clarke's whistles come with a concise but good tutor which covers the basics that matter. There are other good tutors. But never bother with one that ends with quite simple tunes as opposed to more advanced ones - particularly reels. They're selling you short.
A box of frogs, ribbit, ribbit, ribbit, what do you mean?
I love the bassoon, I love all deep bass things, they give me a buzz.
The problem with orchestral instruments is balance, volume, and even a clarinet can kind of take over a session, not that it's the only potential tyrant in the music world, as a large piano accordion hooves into view like a chariot with wheel rotating scimitars threatening to cut off all other musicians at the ~ ~ ~ pass.
If you can balance, that is a long ways towards showing respect that such is needed, not dominance but balance. Worse, and I've experienced it, is a loud instrument in the hands of a very inept musician, one lacking a decent understanding of the music they were butchering. That can be as simple as playing everything dully and legato, flat and mushy, without a clear direction of rhythm, without lift, without life.
We've had the pleasure of some very aware and instinctive low instruments, including cello and bass, who had a sense of the music and the scales this music tends to favour. They were a blessing, but we've been damned more than blessed by instruments that are outside the norm or that have the ability to shout their way into a set of tunes and trommel all over them.
This is just warnings, being, as I said, a lover of the lower depths of pitch, including the bassoon across history, and the magic of its evolution and design too. I should think, well handled, such a boom could be a boon, including to dance, but balance and understanding is a key.
And sometimes a thick skin helps, knowing that whatever we let out with here we really do love the music, and that generally means those who are nurturing a seed of passion for it themselves, newbies ~ wishing you the best in your new interest.
Welcome to the Yellow Board. You will find a ton if good help here from some wonderful people. Here are some suggestions from a classically-trained orchestral player who began this music only a few years ago.
1) get yourself a whistle pitched in D. Half your problems will go away after you this; you will have an easy, authentic, and inexpensive instrument to play. Save the bassoon for the Tschaikovsky symphonies (my wife is a bassoonist, too)
2) find a session near you. Go listen and hang out; get a feel for what goes on there, since every session is different.
3) you have to remember that notation in trad has the opposite role as it does in classical music; it should be avoided, and you should depend on your listening skills at all times.
4) You can find lots of tunes in the Tune section of this site, but some of the most common tunes are the very ones most often avoided because they are overplayed. You need to know which are played at your local session.
Check back often to this site, and good luck to you.
(and if you click on any member's name, you can read their bio, which will add to your experience here. Many have links to tunes and other information.)
If you get a hand on the music, the melody, via something like a whistle or flute, or other better balanced instrument, then that understanding will serve you well with your bassoon, and the potential for some great bass lines ~ bass lines with understanding and sensitivity to the music and the musicians...
Whistle or flute seem the obvious instruments to transfer some of your skills too; and you can at least read music even if you're not used to the treble clef, as well as honing your ear.
Why not also consider joining one of the wilder extremes of the "new folk" music, with your instrument as a bass part in arrangements ? There's plenty of brass around these days in some of the bigger folk bands, why not a bassoon ? You can still play the tunes on it too, to show off your versatility.
Good luck.
PS There's nothing wrong with calling yourself a folkie, I do it all the time, it's just that to some people it implies an acoustic guitar ineptly strummed behind winsome self-penned dirges. Folk music, traditional music, local indigenous music, it's all the same thing really. It's just what is acceptable to some people as a label.
Yeah... What everyone else said about getting a handle on the music through an instrument it is supposed to be played on before taking it to the bassoon...
If you then find that you want to play in Irish music sessions, you will happy you learned the whistle. Put it this way.... if a stranger comes to a session with a whistle, a flute, a fiddle, a squeeze box of some variety, a banjo, a guitar, a zouk/cittern/mandola, or a set of pipes, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they can play and know the music. If someone walks into my session with something totally bizarre, well, like a bassoon, I'll be a lot less friendly.
I guess the assumption I'd make is that anyone who shows up at an Irish session with a bassoon isn't going to have a clue about the music. That could be a totally wrong assumption. Conceivably someone with a deep, nuanced understanding of the music could walk into an Irish session with their bassoon. But it's unlikely. I think the first assumption is the one most Irish trad players would make. You'd probably get a pretty cold reception.
If you're playing with the same people, week in, week out, who know you and your music, then this isn't a big deal. Or if you're planning on recording or something like that, then it doesn't matter. But if you want to travel about to sessions and play with strangers, then the bassoon might be a bit awkward.
I agree with a lot of folks above, get a D whistle, as a woodwind player, it will give you a chance to get experience with probably the oldest instrument in the woodwind family. As far as repetoire, here are 50 tunes, a list first developed by thesession.org member ‘Dow,’ which are pretty common the world around. Some of them are a bit overplayed, or felt to be out of fashion, but generally, when they get played at a session, most everyone in the circle can join in. Learning them is a good place to start.
Reels: The Banshee [James McMahon], The Bird In The Bush, The Bucks Of Oranmore, The Concertina Reel, The Congress, Cooley’s (Luttrell’s Pass), The Cup Of Tea, Drowsy Maggie, Farewell To Ireland, Father Kelly’s (Rossmore Jetty), The Foxhunter’s, The Gravel Walks, The Maid Behind The Bar, The Merry Blacksmith, Miss McLeod’s, The Mountain Road [Michael Gorman], Rolling In The Ryegrass (The Shannon Breeze), Saint Anne’s, The Sally Gardens, The Silver Spear, The Star Of Munster, The Wise Maid (All Around The World).
Jigs: The Blackthorn Stick, The Blarney Pilgrim, The Cliffs Of Moher, The Connaughtman’s Rambles, Donnybrook Fair (The Joy Of My Life), The Irish Washerwoman, The Kesh, The Lark In The Morning, The Lilting Banshee, Morrison’s, My Darling Asleep, Out On The Ocean, The Rakes Of Kildare, Tripping Up The Stairs.
Hornpipes & Set Dances: The Boys Of Bluehill, Harvest Home, King Of The Fairies, Off To California, The Rights Of Man
Slip Jigs: The Foxhunter's, The Kid On The Mountain.
Hop Jigs: The Butterfly, The Rocky Road To Dublin.
Slides: Merrily Kissed The Quaker’s Wife, The Road To Lisdoonvarna.
Polkas: Denis Murphy’s, Egan’s, John Ryan’s (The Keadue).
I was a very serious bassoonist, thought I would become professional, and then drifted into folk music. I've never tried to play the bassoon in a trad session. Instead I have moved from banjo to concertina and now accordion, with various tangents in between. I honestly don't think struggling on with the bassoon in trad is worth the aggro. You can play the notes but not much else. If you want to hear what's wrong with the idea just listen to the various examples of jazz bassoon. The answer in every case is "Buy a sax."
You could go to whistle or flute but I'm not convinced it would be any easier than anything else. You obviously know music so just listen to the various instruments and choose what you like.
However, since you seem to want to jump in with both feet immediately, don't try the pipes. That is definitely not a quick learn.
I just got home & was playing a simple tune,"The Lilting Banshee", it's a jig. As I was playing I realized every bit of articulation & variation I was playing I learnt to do it well (over time of course) but original during a week at Lark music camp with Grey Larsen as the instructor. We never played this particular jig. Though I would say it really began, for me, with his instruction. If you care to read some of his tutorial {the entire book is an encyclopedia as far as tutorials go} there is a link below to excerpts from the book;
"The Essential Guide to Irish Flute & Tin Whistle" http://www.greylarsen.com/store/excerpts_essguide.php
I was just looking at Chapter 1. He is spot on with what he writes near the beginning,
"In this art, the key to all insight is listening.This is a theme that will surface again and again throughout these pages."
The estimable C wrote:
"There are lists in this members 'Details' ~ http://www.thesession.org/members/display/58";
But when you look, you find lists of about 350 reels, 150 jigs, and more of other tune types. This plays into the sad misconception that knowing huge numbers of tunes makes you a good musician. (More likely it just makes you a sad person, unless you really do have many many years of experience behind you!) To a beginner, lists like this are depressing, discouraging and plain useless. A normal person with a normal talent for music will take years and years and yet more years before she/he knows the best part of 1000 tunes. Most old traditional players (professionals aside) probably never knew that many. (I know we could discuss that at length, but I would not want to.)
Learning 50 well-chosen tunes well and being able to play them with meaning is worth far, far more than any daft total of many hundreds or even 2000 tunes. (Yes, I have seen 2000 claimed!)
Suggestions of 10 or 20 tunes to get going on might be more use, but our OP already seems to have access to that kind start.
PS - Dear OP, what is the "folk scene in Oxford" now? That was where I started long ago.
The sound of the bassoon inevitably leads one to speculate about that of Le Petomane, the famous French flatulist. Now, *there* is someone who played an unusual instrument.
He had the unusual ability to take up air into his backside and control its release in the production of extraordinary sound effects.
These included renderings of O Sole Mio and La Marseillaise - although Wikipedia rather disappointingly says he actually played these on the ocarina, connected to his backside by a tube, as opposed to controlling the notes with his sphincter. He was perhaps more at home doing cannons, thunderstorms and a showpiece take on the San Francisco Earthquake.
Le Petomane's tradition is somewhat eccentric to 'proper' Irish music, I feel, but there might well be a place for it in some St. Patrick's Day festivity at an advanced hour. English music could accommodate it quite easily, being extremely catholic in its instrumental uptake.
In the USA, people play all kinds of instruments in Contradance
bands. A bassoon is unusual but would fit right with the oboes,
clarinets, alto recorders, saxophones, etc.
"~lists like this are depressing, discouraging and plain useless~" Lingpupa
Yup! Sorry if that was the impression given, that wasn't the intent, and why I came back to say ~ learn from the locals...
Al Brown trims it down to Dow's list, which grew into the larger list contributed by others. But, there were also the other links given in my original post that actually set them up in some kind of popularity list, based on tunebooks here or on recordings. While those lists can be large too, they start at the top with the most, and are generally reasonable in that. NO ONE here has yet suggested learning thousands of tunes, or even hundreds. So down to a misinterpretation?
nfldbox ~ Brilliant! Well said and useful coming from another bassoonist. Let your heart choose your instrument for this journey. While it doesn't have to be a D whistle, lots of folks start there that take other paths later ~ winds, strings, reeds...
In the US & England too ~ right down to brass bands and big sound systems ~ but it don't fit well in most sessions, as there isn't the sound system and microphones and monitors to try to achieve a balance. A tuba in an acoustic session, without a mute, is just too damn much for the senses of most well eared folk... We not only love the music, we like to hear what we and other people are playing ~ 'balance'...
In all suggestions ~ let your ears be your guide ~ learn what turns on your emotions, what draws you in, make your own repertoire. That's the best suggestion I can make, and if you want to play music with others, listen to what they play, and if you hear something you like ~ ask for their help and guidance ~ and learn what you want, not off of any list, but you'll likely find things there too you'll like. Let your ears be your guide, in all things with respect to this music...
Don't 'cram' ~ learn a few good tunes well, and that is worth a hell of a lot more than tons of tunes known half-assed... If you don't know something, take a break and listen. Don't 'noodle', don't fumble about. If you really do enjoy this music you'll also enjoy the listen too...
Go slow, short, sweet ~ whatever your past experience or percieved abilities with 'other' musit. Don't rush it, enjoy the waltzes and the slow airs and O'Carolan pieces that will have a closer affinity to the classical experiences you already have. Avoid jumping in feet first into reels, except as slow listening pieces. Speed kills, deadens the senses, and there are a lot of folks who can speed along and don't realize how awful their playing is, their senses deadened in the adrenalin rush and buzz of just doing things fast and faster. Take it as a personal opinion, it does the music no service but gives some folks a cheap thrill. Take things steady, like a healthy heart, not like a heart suffering digitalis or crystal meths poisoning.
Here are a few airs and new comps that would go well in deep unrushed steady tones ~ including the buzz of a bassoon ~
& there's no shortage of others, and lovely waltzes too ~ & no doubt played in your local sessions, still the best place to go searching for inspiration and tunes, as well as recommended recordings. If you do some searching of the discussions here you'll find more on beginning tunes.
Approach all this as you've admitted, as a newbie, as new, fresh, exciting ~ with those open eyes, with passion, with curioisity. Try to never lose that, or let anyone else cast a shadow over it...
Welome Folkie,
I love new people who actually take the attention away from the bodhran...if only for a bit. Way to sacrifice youself! Don't worry, it won't be long before you're in tight and it's back to the status quo.
Seems you're getting a lot of good feedback. good luck !
PS: For what it is worth, it just jumped into my mind that, were I aspiring to play ceili music on bassoon, I might listen to what cellists are doing with the stuff currently.
Another instrument of lower range, a very expressive instrument, and a giant leap away from much of what is considered "mainstream".
Probably a silly notion, but thought I would share it.
"folk" is a broad church. I note that you use the term "jazz" to describe some of your repetoire - but was it dixie, swing, mainstream, bebop.....??
so it is with "folk" - there are very different subdivisions of this imagined genre
for what its worth my advice would be to find a type of traditional music that you like enough to learn to play it, and only then think about which instrument to use
you've logged on to an Irish music site here and I would argue that that's the best music on earth - but until you've heard the others you won't be in a position to form a reliable judgement yourself.
wouldnt it be a shame to spend 10 years learning Irish fiddle only to find later that your real passion was Bohemian bagpipe stuff
Yes, go for that one instead of the Alastair Anderson one. You'll find it is track 10 here, a bit O.T.T. for arrangements, but the air is sweet and would buzz beautifully on a bassoon or any other low instrument...
I can only echo what many have written in earlier posts:
Go to as many sessions as you can, listen, listen, and listen.
Take names if possible (without being obtrusive) of tunes played at the session. Go home and learn them (by ear if possible--it shortcuts time spent having to learn the 'henscratch/dots').
A whistle might be the easiest choice to 'learn tunes on' because of its ease of fingering (most likely similar to your bassoon fingering?) and portability. If you like later you could branch over into the flute, fingerings being similar as well.
When I played cello in my youth we referred to the bassoonist in our youth orchestra as the guy who played the farting bedpost. Such joking aside, portability and acceptance will be much easier at as a newcomer to a session with a whistle than with a bassoon.
Newbie folkie
Newbie folkie
Hey all,
Firstly - just to say - fantastic website! Gotta love the internet
Basically, one of my friends is massively into folk - she played alot when she was back in scotland and has fairly recently discovered the folk scene here (oxford). Being a musical friend, this seemed like a great opportunity for me to get into folk - it always looks like good fun and the folkies I knew back in Brighton were phenomenal players.
However, being completely new to it, I have no idea where to start! And thus my question - what are some good starting points for tunes to learn? I'd like to get a core range of tunes under my fingers before starting to get into the folk scene here... I've got a decent enough ear but i wanna know at least some tunes first! I'm classically trained originally, although i'm listening to plenty of folk to get the style down, and i'd love to branch out given that, the more music you play, the better you get!
I guess i should probably mention the biggest barrier to being taken seriously - I'm a bassoonist - which is clearly not standard in the folk community... but it still sounds pretty decent and i can pretty much keep up with my fiddle playing friend so I personally can't see a problem!
So yeah - any shout-outs for any core repertoire (for lack of a better word) that a newbie should learn would be very much appreciated.
Cheers, Matt
# Posted on March 20th 2010 by mattrattley
Re: Newbie folkie
Hey Matt - welcome to thesession.org. listen, if you're going to play a woodwind instrument at folk jams, you should probably get one that's more traditional. Bombardes are always welcome at our session (just don't point it at us)
# Posted on March 20th 2010 by airport
Re: Newbie folkie
It may sound obvious, but learn the tunes that other people at your session(s) play. And tunes that you like.....
# Posted on March 20th 2010 by minijackpot
Re: Newbie folkie
You can save yourself a lot of hassle, heartache, and ridicule if you play a traditional instrument when playing traditional music.
on this board...
I know several pipers, flute players, and whistle players that started out playing other forms of music on different wind instruments. So you might consider that route.
It will also help to further define exactly what kind of music you would like to play, other than just "folk". There are several different styles of traditional music in that part of the world. They share some similarities, but are each a distinct style of music.
Anyway, welcome the thesession. You might brace yourself for a bit of a barrage of differing opinions, some of them not so tempered. But if you're truly interested in becoming involved in one or more of the traditional music forms, you'll likely find yourself fully addicted like the rest of us!
P.S. Not bad for a "first post", knowing how to produce a
# Posted on March 20th 2010 by Reverend
Failte Newbie
But just 'newbie' will suffice. "Folkie' is not a well recieved noun in this neck of the woods... In general not to be taken seriously, so things can get a bit sarcastic down the line.
For our help, what instrument or instruments, aside from the bassoon, have you decided to pick up and pursue? That will help us some in suggesting tunes to start out with.
Before it takes of ~ ears first ~ so put aside, if you can, any dot addiction you might have picked up from your foray into the deep realms of the lovely bassoon and its repertoire. We can not only recommend tunes but recordings to feed your ears and understanding. But let us know what instrument you've chosen.
Here are a few places to find lists of standard session tunes, or by popularity, some determination of that ~
Go here to read the FAQs, then click on the [ Tunebook ] tab to see some take on popularity here.
There are lists in this members 'Details' ~
http://www.thesession.org/members/display/58
And a number of pages here ~
http://www.irishtune.info/
# Posted on March 20th 2010 by ceolachan
Missed, but someone else added it ~ learn from others, especially those close at hand, what is being played locally...
# Posted on March 20th 2010 by ceolachan
Re: Newbie
Hey all,
and, i didn't see the list of popular tunes - seems like a good place to start, thanks!
thanks for the prompt replies! i knew revealing what i played would be an error - I got into jazz a year or two ago and the number of funny looks i got when i put "jazz" and "bassoon" in the same sentence - if only I had a camera... i'm used to the ridicule etc and i had a similar reaction from my friend when i said i was interested (i've never seen someone's eyebrows look so quizzical!) - having heard some of the first tunes she showed me, she doesn't rip me too much any more (aside from generally not knowing much about folk!). of course - if playing folk bassoon is completely futile, i'll pick up another instrument - any recommendations for what a wind player might switch to would be appreciated (i don't play any string instruments so it would probs need to be wind - the whistle appeals most i think). but, for now, i'd like to stick with the bassoon
@disillusioned & ceolachan - "learning off others" - i'm primarily learning off my friend, but given that i've only really been introduced to it recently, i really haven't got very far! the problem i've got is, going to lots of sessions is not really an option (instrument choice is an obvious barrier, along with not knowing any tunes, plus time constraints), and i'd like to "catch up" a bit given that most players have been playing for ages, maybe even grown up with it, and by contrast i know nothing!
@Reverend - "what folk" - that's kinda part of the problem really - i have no idea! i'd love to sample all of it - my friend being scottish mostly has stuff she's learnt from her hometown. at the moment i have nowhere else to start - i completely hold my hands up and say i'm coming here completely blind and need a hand...
@ceolachan - i did print some dots off but, given that all the dots are in treble clef on here, i found playing by ear easier - i have a decent ear for a classical musician (which translates as an awful ear for almost every other genre of music) so playing by ear isn't too painful - I'll be sure to stick to that in future
Cheers one and all,
Matt
# Posted on March 20th 2010 by mattrattley
Re: Newbie folkie
This probably won't help if you want to learn the tunes usually played in session. I just have a gut feeling you might enjoy listening to Kathryn Tickell;
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/2625
I know there are some videos on YouTube.
# Posted on March 20th 2010 by Ben Steen
. . .
Matt, if you really do want to take a basson to sessions you might want to develop some banterworthy repertoire as well. Here is a good place to begin . . .
Re: "A penguin goes into a bar..."
Posted on August 8th 2006 by Zazzaliss
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/10853/comments#comment224048
# Posted on March 20th 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: Newbie folkie
For portability there's nothing to beat a whistle.
# Posted on March 20th 2010 by minijackpot
Re: Newbie folkie
To hear a folk bassoon, look out for Amann Rik (bassoon, flute duo with guitar and double bass backing). The bassoonist also plays the bombard.
# Posted on March 20th 2010 by Tirno
Re: Newbie folkie
God help you and good luck. You've jumped into a real box of frogs here. Don't let yourself be thrown out by *anything* anyone says - that's the key to survival.
If perchance you play the *clarinet*, as well as the bassoon, much exotic trad - though not the core Irish / Scottish stuff - is your oyster. Its wild and frenzied squallings fuel the revels of the Balkan tribes and Jewish weddings in Golders Green. For Jewish Klezmer music, check out Moishe's Bagel, Andy Statman and more on YouTube / the Net.
Learning the penny whistle is a good idea. Irish and UK dance tunes nearly all require one in the key of D. In brief - it's an easy instrument to get the hang of, as they go, but there are knacks that must be learnt. Clarke's whistles come with a concise but good tutor which covers the basics that matter. There are other good tutors. But never bother with one that ends with quite simple tunes as opposed to more advanced ones - particularly reels. They're selling you short.
# Posted on March 20th 2010 by nicholas
Definitely have a D whistle at all times. . .
I'm just putting this here because it has the most recent tune we have begun playing in session ~ "The Star of Brittany"
"Joao de Deus" ~ Conor Keane & Martin O'Malley
http://www.malbaystudios.com/index.phpmodule=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=16&MMN_position=35:30
I just found the webpage, but the tune is on the 1st track & it seems to have complete tunes rather than 30 second samples.
# Posted on March 20th 2010 by Ben Steen
The 1st one is a bad link, hopefully this 1
http://www.malbaystudios.com/index.php?module=pagemaster&PAGE_user_op=view_page&PAGE_id=16&MMN_position=35:30
# Posted on March 20th 2010 by Ben Steen
Failte Newbie
A box of frogs, ribbit, ribbit, ribbit, what do you mean?
I love the bassoon, I love all deep bass things, they give me a buzz.
The problem with orchestral instruments is balance, volume, and even a clarinet can kind of take over a session, not that it's the only potential tyrant in the music world, as a large piano accordion hooves into view like a chariot with wheel rotating scimitars threatening to cut off all other musicians at the ~ ~ ~ pass.
If you can balance, that is a long ways towards showing respect that such is needed, not dominance but balance. Worse, and I've experienced it, is a loud instrument in the hands of a very inept musician, one lacking a decent understanding of the music they were butchering. That can be as simple as playing everything dully and legato, flat and mushy, without a clear direction of rhythm, without lift, without life.
We've had the pleasure of some very aware and instinctive low instruments, including cello and bass, who had a sense of the music and the scales this music tends to favour. They were a blessing, but we've been damned more than blessed by instruments that are outside the norm or that have the ability to shout their way into a set of tunes and trommel all over them.
This is just warnings, being, as I said, a lover of the lower depths of pitch, including the bassoon across history, and the magic of its evolution and design too. I should think, well handled, such a boom could be a boon, including to dance, but balance and understanding is a key.
And sometimes a thick skin helps, knowing that whatever we let out with here we really do love the music, and that generally means those who are nurturing a seed of passion for it themselves, newbies ~ wishing you the best in your new interest.
# Posted on March 20th 2010 by ceolachan
Re: Newbie folkie
Hi, Matt.
Welcome to the Yellow Board. You will find a ton if good help here from some wonderful people. Here are some suggestions from a classically-trained orchestral player who began this music only a few years ago.
1) get yourself a whistle pitched in D. Half your problems will go away after you this; you will have an easy, authentic, and inexpensive instrument to play. Save the bassoon for the Tschaikovsky symphonies (my wife is a bassoonist, too)
2) find a session near you. Go listen and hang out; get a feel for what goes on there, since every session is different.
3) you have to remember that notation in trad has the opposite role as it does in classical music; it should be avoided, and you should depend on your listening skills at all times.
4) You can find lots of tunes in the Tune section of this site, but some of the most common tunes are the very ones most often avoided because they are overplayed. You need to know which are played at your local session.
Check back often to this site, and good luck to you.
(and if you click on any member's name, you can read their bio, which will add to your experience here. Many have links to tunes and other information.)
# Posted on March 20th 2010 by Greg the Piano Tuner
If you get a hand on the music, the melody, via something like a whistle or flute, or other better balanced instrument, then that understanding will serve you well with your bassoon, and the potential for some great bass lines ~ bass lines with understanding and sensitivity to the music and the musicians...
# Posted on March 20th 2010 by ceolachan
Re: Newbie folkie
Whistle or flute seem the obvious instruments to transfer some of your skills too; and you can at least read music even if you're not used to the treble clef, as well as honing your ear.
Why not also consider joining one of the wilder extremes of the "new folk" music, with your instrument as a bass part in arrangements ? There's plenty of brass around these days in some of the bigger folk bands, why not a bassoon ? You can still play the tunes on it too, to show off your versatility.
Good luck.
PS There's nothing wrong with calling yourself a folkie, I do it all the time, it's just that to some people it implies an acoustic guitar ineptly strummed behind winsome self-penned dirges. Folk music, traditional music, local indigenous music, it's all the same thing really. It's just what is acceptable to some people as a label.
# Posted on March 20th 2010 by Guernsey Pete
Folkies unite!
I always suspected you were a singer-songwriter Pete and that the pirate thing was just a ruse...
# Posted on March 21st 2010 by ceolachan
Re: Newbie folkie
Yeah... What everyone else said about getting a handle on the music through an instrument it is supposed to be played on before taking it to the bassoon...
If you then find that you want to play in Irish music sessions, you will happy you learned the whistle. Put it this way.... if a stranger comes to a session with a whistle, a flute, a fiddle, a squeeze box of some variety, a banjo, a guitar, a zouk/cittern/mandola, or a set of pipes, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and assume they can play and know the music. If someone walks into my session with something totally bizarre, well, like a bassoon, I'll be a lot less friendly.
I guess the assumption I'd make is that anyone who shows up at an Irish session with a bassoon isn't going to have a clue about the music. That could be a totally wrong assumption. Conceivably someone with a deep, nuanced understanding of the music could walk into an Irish session with their bassoon. But it's unlikely. I think the first assumption is the one most Irish trad players would make. You'd probably get a pretty cold reception.
If you're playing with the same people, week in, week out, who know you and your music, then this isn't a big deal. Or if you're planning on recording or something like that, then it doesn't matter. But if you want to travel about to sessions and play with strangers, then the bassoon might be a bit awkward.
# Posted on March 21st 2010 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Newbie folkie
I agree with a lot of folks above, get a D whistle, as a woodwind player, it will give you a chance to get experience with probably the oldest instrument in the woodwind family. As far as repetoire, here are 50 tunes, a list first developed by thesession.org member ‘Dow,’ which are pretty common the world around. Some of them are a bit overplayed, or felt to be out of fashion, but generally, when they get played at a session, most everyone in the circle can join in. Learning them is a good place to start.
Reels: The Banshee [James McMahon], The Bird In The Bush, The Bucks Of Oranmore, The Concertina Reel, The Congress, Cooley’s (Luttrell’s Pass), The Cup Of Tea, Drowsy Maggie, Farewell To Ireland, Father Kelly’s (Rossmore Jetty), The Foxhunter’s, The Gravel Walks, The Maid Behind The Bar, The Merry Blacksmith, Miss McLeod’s, The Mountain Road [Michael Gorman], Rolling In The Ryegrass (The Shannon Breeze), Saint Anne’s, The Sally Gardens, The Silver Spear, The Star Of Munster, The Wise Maid (All Around The World).
Jigs: The Blackthorn Stick, The Blarney Pilgrim, The Cliffs Of Moher, The Connaughtman’s Rambles, Donnybrook Fair (The Joy Of My Life), The Irish Washerwoman, The Kesh, The Lark In The Morning, The Lilting Banshee, Morrison’s, My Darling Asleep, Out On The Ocean, The Rakes Of Kildare, Tripping Up The Stairs.
Hornpipes & Set Dances: The Boys Of Bluehill, Harvest Home, King Of The Fairies, Off To California, The Rights Of Man
Slip Jigs: The Foxhunter's, The Kid On The Mountain.
Hop Jigs: The Butterfly, The Rocky Road To Dublin.
Slides: Merrily Kissed The Quaker’s Wife, The Road To Lisdoonvarna.
Polkas: Denis Murphy’s, Egan’s, John Ryan’s (The Keadue).
# Posted on March 21st 2010 by AlBrown
Re: Newbie folkie
I was a very serious bassoonist, thought I would become professional, and then drifted into folk music. I've never tried to play the bassoon in a trad session. Instead I have moved from banjo to concertina and now accordion, with various tangents in between. I honestly don't think struggling on with the bassoon in trad is worth the aggro. You can play the notes but not much else. If you want to hear what's wrong with the idea just listen to the various examples of jazz bassoon. The answer in every case is "Buy a sax."
You could go to whistle or flute but I'm not convinced it would be any easier than anything else. You obviously know music so just listen to the various instruments and choose what you like.
However, since you seem to want to jump in with both feet immediately, don't try the pipes. That is definitely not a quick learn.
# Posted on March 21st 2010 by nfldbox
Re: Newbie folkie
I just got home & was playing a simple tune,"The Lilting Banshee", it's a jig. As I was playing I realized every bit of articulation & variation I was playing I learnt to do it well (over time of course) but original during a week at Lark music camp with Grey Larsen as the instructor. We never played this particular jig. Though I would say it really began, for me, with his instruction. If you care to read some of his tutorial {the entire book is an encyclopedia as far as tutorials go} there is a link below to excerpts from the book;
"The Essential Guide to Irish Flute & Tin Whistle"
http://www.greylarsen.com/store/excerpts_essguide.php
I was just looking at Chapter 1. He is spot on with what he writes near the beginning,
"In this art, the key to all insight is listening.This is a theme that will surface again and again throughout these pages."
# Posted on March 21st 2010 by Ben Steen
Re: Newbie folkie
The estimable C wrote:
"There are lists in this members 'Details' ~
http://www.thesession.org/members/display/58";
But when you look, you find lists of about 350 reels, 150 jigs, and more of other tune types. This plays into the sad misconception that knowing huge numbers of tunes makes you a good musician. (More likely it just makes you a sad person, unless you really do have many many years of experience behind you!) To a beginner, lists like this are depressing, discouraging and plain useless. A normal person with a normal talent for music will take years and years and yet more years before she/he knows the best part of 1000 tunes. Most old traditional players (professionals aside) probably never knew that many. (I know we could discuss that at length, but I would not want to.)
Learning 50 well-chosen tunes well and being able to play them with meaning is worth far, far more than any daft total of many hundreds or even 2000 tunes. (Yes, I have seen 2000 claimed!)
Suggestions of 10 or 20 tunes to get going on might be more use, but our OP already seems to have access to that kind start.
PS - Dear OP, what is the "folk scene in Oxford" now? That was where I started long ago.
# Posted on March 21st 2010 by Alex Wilding
Re: Newbie folkie
The sound of the bassoon inevitably leads one to speculate about that of Le Petomane, the famous French flatulist. Now, *there* is someone who played an unusual instrument.
He had the unusual ability to take up air into his backside and control its release in the production of extraordinary sound effects.
These included renderings of O Sole Mio and La Marseillaise - although Wikipedia rather disappointingly says he actually played these on the ocarina, connected to his backside by a tube, as opposed to controlling the notes with his sphincter. He was perhaps more at home doing cannons, thunderstorms and a showpiece take on the San Francisco Earthquake.
Le Petomane's tradition is somewhat eccentric to 'proper' Irish music, I feel, but there might well be a place for it in some St. Patrick's Day festivity at an advanced hour. English music could accommodate it quite easily, being extremely catholic in its instrumental uptake.
# Posted on March 21st 2010 by nicholas
Re: Newbie folkie
Nicholas, might I refer you to the crumhorn, sometimes described as "a tuned fart" ?
# Posted on March 21st 2010 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Newbie folkie
In the USA, people play all kinds of instruments in Contradance
bands. A bassoon is unusual but would fit right with the oboes,
clarinets, alto recorders, saxophones, etc.
# Posted on March 21st 2010 by Hup
Re: Newbie folkie
"~lists like this are depressing, discouraging and plain useless~" Lingpupa
Yup! Sorry if that was the impression given, that wasn't the intent, and why I came back to say ~ learn from the locals...
Al Brown trims it down to Dow's list, which grew into the larger list contributed by others. But, there were also the other links given in my original post that actually set them up in some kind of popularity list, based on tunebooks here or on recordings. While those lists can be large too, they start at the top with the most, and are generally reasonable in that. NO ONE here has yet suggested learning thousands of tunes, or even hundreds. So down to a misinterpretation?
nfldbox ~ Brilliant! Well said and useful coming from another bassoonist. Let your heart choose your instrument for this journey. While it doesn't have to be a D whistle, lots of folks start there that take other paths later ~ winds, strings, reeds...
In the US & England too ~ right down to brass bands and big sound systems ~ but it don't fit well in most sessions, as there isn't the sound system and microphones and monitors to try to achieve a balance. A tuba in an acoustic session, without a mute, is just too damn much for the senses of most well eared folk... We not only love the music, we like to hear what we and other people are playing ~ 'balance'...
# Posted on March 21st 2010 by ceolachan
Re: Newbie ~ a fresh set of ears ~
In all suggestions ~ let your ears be your guide ~ learn what turns on your emotions, what draws you in, make your own repertoire. That's the best suggestion I can make, and if you want to play music with others, listen to what they play, and if you hear something you like ~ ask for their help and guidance ~ and learn what you want, not off of any list, but you'll likely find things there too you'll like. Let your ears be your guide, in all things with respect to this music...
# Posted on March 21st 2010 by ceolachan
Don't 'cram' ~ learn a few good tunes well, and that is worth a hell of a lot more than tons of tunes known half-assed... If you don't know something, take a break and listen. Don't 'noodle', don't fumble about. If you really do enjoy this music you'll also enjoy the listen too...
# Posted on March 21st 2010 by ceolachan
In the beginning ~ newbie
Go slow, short, sweet ~ whatever your past experience or percieved abilities with 'other' musit. Don't rush it, enjoy the waltzes and the slow airs and O'Carolan pieces that will have a closer affinity to the classical experiences you already have. Avoid jumping in feet first into reels, except as slow listening pieces. Speed kills, deadens the senses, and there are a lot of folks who can speed along and don't realize how awful their playing is, their senses deadened in the adrenalin rush and buzz of just doing things fast and faster. Take it as a personal opinion, it does the music no service but gives some folks a cheap thrill. Take things steady, like a healthy heart, not like a heart suffering digitalis or crystal meths poisoning.
Here are a few airs and new comps that would go well in deep unrushed steady tones ~ including the buzz of a bassoon ~
"Hector the Hero" by Scott Skinner
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1292
"The Island of Woods" by Liz Carroll
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/8940
Liz Carroll & John Doyle
http://www.lizcarroll.com/html/lizandjohn.htm
"The Road North" by Alisdair Fraser
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/6889
& there's no shortage of others, and lovely waltzes too ~ & no doubt played in your local sessions, still the best place to go searching for inspiration and tunes, as well as recommended recordings. If you do some searching of the discussions here you'll find more on beginning tunes.
Approach all this as you've admitted, as a newbie, as new, fresh, exciting ~ with those open eyes, with passion, with curioisity. Try to never lose that, or let anyone else cast a shadow over it...
# Posted on March 21st 2010 by ceolachan
Re: Newbie folkie
Welome Folkie,
I love new people who actually take the attention away from the bodhran...if only for a bit. Way to sacrifice youself! Don't worry, it won't be long before you're in tight and it's back to the status quo.
Seems you're getting a lot of good feedback. good luck !
# Posted on March 21st 2010 by mainiac
"The Road North" by Alisdair Anderson (not Fraser)
Oops! ~ That's what I get for flash typing ~ mistakes...
I was cutting and pasting that from an email I'd just recieved...
# Posted on March 21st 2010 by ceolachan
Re: Newbie folkie
Welcome to Trad World, "newbie"..
Bassoon is a new one on me, but stranger things have found their way into the room. Who knows, might be a breakthrough.
I did not read every entry above, but I just thought I would likely redundantly mention, for beginner tunes for you to contemplate, go to Dow's List.
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/13056/#comment268197
Good luck.
Have fun.
PS: For what it is worth, it just jumped into my mind that, were I aspiring to play ceili music on bassoon, I might listen to what cellists are doing with the stuff currently.
Another instrument of lower range, a very expressive instrument, and a giant leap away from much of what is considered "mainstream".
Probably a silly notion, but thought I would share it.
# Posted on March 21st 2010 by Piece
Re: Newbie folkie
"folk" is a broad church. I note that you use the term "jazz" to describe some of your repetoire - but was it dixie, swing, mainstream, bebop.....??
so it is with "folk" - there are very different subdivisions of this imagined genre
for what its worth my advice would be to find a type of traditional music that you like enough to learn to play it, and only then think about which instrument to use
you've logged on to an Irish music site here and I would argue that that's the best music on earth - but until you've heard the others you won't be in a position to form a reliable judgement yourself.
wouldnt it be a shame to spend 10 years learning Irish fiddle only to find later that your real passion was Bohemian bagpipe stuff
good luck
# Posted on March 21st 2010 by millionyears_bc
Re: Newbie ~ a fresh set of ears, eyes and hopefully not yet concretized notions ~
Good suggestions Rook, hardly 'silly'...
# Posted on March 21st 2010 by ceolachan
"The Road North" ~ Alasdair Fraser's tune!!!
Yes, go for that one instead of the Alastair Anderson one. You'll find it is track 10 here, a bit O.T.T. for arrangements, but the air is sweet and would buzz beautifully on a bassoon or any other low instrument...
http://www.thesession.org/recordings/display/566
# Posted on March 22nd 2010 by ceolachan
Re: Newbie folkie
Thank you, Ceolachan -
I was endeavoring to be a bit less "cock-sure of myself".
(Better sometimes a bit passive than a bit too aggressive.)
Thanks again.
# Posted on March 22nd 2010 by Piece
"The Road North" ~ C: Alasdair Fraser
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display.php/10373
# Posted on March 22nd 2010 by ceolachan
Re: Newbie folkie
I can only echo what many have written in earlier posts:
Go to as many sessions as you can, listen, listen, and listen.
Take names if possible (without being obtrusive) of tunes played at the session. Go home and learn them (by ear if possible--it shortcuts time spent having to learn the 'henscratch/dots').
A whistle might be the easiest choice to 'learn tunes on' because of its ease of fingering (most likely similar to your bassoon fingering?) and portability. If you like later you could branch over into the flute, fingerings being similar as well.
When I played cello in my youth we referred to the bassoonist in our youth orchestra as the guy who played the farting bedpost. Such joking aside, portability and acceptance will be much easier at as a newcomer to a session with a whistle than with a bassoon.
# Posted on March 22nd 2010 by fiddlerdan