Does anyone know where I might get a copy of Liz Carrolls trad version of Canon in D? It's brilliant!!
I'm sure it must have some classical composers quivering in their graves....
Quite possibly. Heard it on a radio station here in Ireland one evening. Might even be Eileen Ivers and not Liz Carroll. Can't remember what the radio presenter said. Will check that tune out.
Thanks!
Dor
Unless it was a live broadcast or a recording of a live broadcast that you heard, it was probably Eileen Ivers not Liz Carroll you heard playing the Pachelbel tune. Eileen recorded it on the eponymous CD she did for Green Linnet, but AFAIK Liz has never recorded it.
When I was in the States I met so many American (Irish) trad. musicians who just hated E. Ivers playing. I thought that was strange somehow. I expected more enthusiasm from her fellow Americans. Especially because this woman can play so well. She is just a genius, I think. She can play trad but she is well able to go a step further. To do that might not be everybody's idea of Irish music but how can that make people hate her playing? I personally love fiddle players like Brian Rooney, Paddy Glackin, Gerry O'Connor, John Carty who all play very differently to Eileen Ivers but I would never say I hate Ivers playing. I wonder if those who say they "hate" it are not a bit jealous or maybe these are the people who know exactly what good taste is and what isn't?
BTW, I checked the Green Linnet website, and the Pachelbel piece is on her "Eileen Ivers" CD, not on "Wild Blue". The eponymous CD is a good bit more trad than what came later, but it's still "out there". I first met Eileen when she was barely out of her teens, and she was "out there" even then. I must say that I liked her older stuff better than what she's doing now. Not that what she's doing now is bad, it's just not my thing. I'd say the same thing about what Solas is doing now compared to what they were doing when they started, or even what Seamus Egan was doing before Solas formed. In fact, in the early '90s Seamus Egan and Eileen Ivers were doing a lot of playing together (frequently with John Doyle and an African drummer called Kim Ati Dinizulu). Not much of that collaboration was ever recorded (the brilliant set of tunes with just Seamus and Eileen on the Dear Old Erin's Isle CD is one notable exception), but I caught their act live a few times back then, and I really liked it. In thinking about what has changed between then and now to turn me off of it, I think it's not so much her playing as it is all the drums and other hoopla she's surrounding herself with these days. Just one non-hateful American's opinion...
PS I heard her say in a recorded interview (or maybe it was a printed interview I read) that she's gonna do a trad album sometime before long. I for one am looking forward to that!
I've always enjoyed Eileen Ivers' playing--she's got impeccable timing, great lift and tone, precision in everything she does yet full of verve and spirit. Her straight trad stuff is as good as it gets, and her world-fusion stuff is way more musical than most. She's also smart, personable, and funny as hell. The fact that her world-fusion stuff isn't what I listen to no doubt says way more about me than it does her....
bb, that usage is quite common now. I used to wonder at it, but you find it everywhere, including audio applications on pcs.
I think the problem is that there doesn't seem to be a useful snappy word to mean "pieces of music" (now isn't that awkward phraseology?) whether played on an instrument or vocalised solo or accompanied, as distinct from a "tune" as such. So "song" has now become the de facto all-purpose term for this function. The unspoken logic is probably that singing is one of the most fundamental ways of making music (along with rhythm), and most music in popular culture (I'm not being pejorative here, just factual) is essentially vocal. And of course it is the popular culture that drives the record industry.
Trevor
Well, no one I play with calls them songs - they call them tunes - this is true in the case of both Ireland and Australia, I cringe if someone calls them 'songs' - you may as well come up and ask if you can listen to my 'Jam' (instead of session
I'd say the latter. I don't think Ms. Carroll spends a whole lot of time online, so she may not have noticed. "Songs" isn't a common usage for "tune" around here, that's for sure, and it'd get you scorn in the bigger cities round this side of the pond...
"Songs" is utterly cringifying and very namby-pamby sounding. I even prefer the term "diddly" which is only slightly less namby-pamby. "Tunes" really isn't a difficult word to get your head around...
have any of you heard the Martin Hayes version of Curious p's. i really like it and it works so well since it ends that 20 some minute long set. Definitly an awsome ending!
"Tunes" is correct. "Songs" is incorrect. "Songs" refers to pieces of music with words. Forget all that old madam about the record industry and popular culture. End of story.
I cringe when I see "Tchunes" or "Chunes" written. How passé. It may have been funny for one outing 100 years ago, but I've seen someone use it consistently throughout their post to the extent that I couldn't concentrate on what they were saying, Chunes this and Chunes that.
Yeah Will - and if you play those in your car, would they be cartoo...
So Sarah, is this a deliberate trend or just extended ignorance? If it's a deliberate trend, why so? Maybe they are of the belief that the music has such a powerful "voice" that each "tchune/toon/tune" should be elevated to the status of being a "song"...if so, that's worrying...Hmmm....
There's only one thing for it. Every Irish tune has to have lyrics written for it, the more doubtful in taste the better
- thinks: the last 7 words of the previous sentence would scan in a jig, wouldn't they?
Trevor
The idea that there are sessions out there where people turn up and actually talk about playing "songs" makes me so crabby I'm weak and out of breath. It's no wonder America has a "one person gets angry with the world and goes out and shoots everyone in the neighbourhood" problem. If I had to go to a session and be faced with an evening of "sssongsss" ... "thongth" ... I'd probably end up doing the same. Sarah, please tell them to stop being so unbelievably irritating, if only for their own personal safety, otherwise I might have to make a special trip to Portland and shake them myself. In fact, you could print out this thread and tell them how the whole world is talking about how utterly namby-pamby they are!
Hey thats a good idea sarah - print out this thread and show them. Do they not realise that people would seriously start laughing at them if they turned up to a session and started calling tunes 'songs'. What is that famous saying, oh yes thats it 'Ignorace doesnt hold up in court!'
PS DOW!!! You missed the most hilarious thing on sunday - seeing as we are on the subject of totally ignorant people in sessions - this is the censored version of what actually happened;
'I lost my temper at the session on sunday night *BIG* time. We had just tune up and these two girls come in (little tops, short skirts -you know the drill) and they go "we are going to sit with you while you jam" (didnt ask but told us thats what they were going to do) -I swear this is no lie (danger, danger will robinson!) God allmighty - sure didnt they go to sit in two seats around the table that were for the musicians! (we are always scimping for seats as it is in this pub as there are never enough)
So our piper says 'Ah sorry, those seats are for the other musicians' and they reply 'we are musicians' and just sit down - 'oh' we say 'what do you play', they then say 'piano and guitar' - only thing is they dont have either a piano or guitar anywhere in sight. So already I hate them - and my blood is boiling, of all the feckin cheek! B
Before we even play *one* tune or even get a sip of *one* pint one of the girls says of the other - "she can sing an Irish song - and she is really, really brilliant so lets all listen to her sing"
So the friend starts bloody singing! for fecks sake!! we hadnt even one tune!!!! So I cannot help it - it was just the worst session etique Ive ever seen - I tried so hard not to, but it just happenend -I burst out laughing - couldnt stop - like when you get told off at school & you know your going to get the cane but no matter how much pain youre going to feel you just cannot stop! And Ger was telling me to shush and I couldnt stop - had tears streaming down my face and then I started choking on my pint. But in the end - I could give a toss - what total lack of respect.
- It took all my self control not to tell them to get lost! But of course the boys loved it!!! They were cheering and clapping and now these
two girls will probably come again cause they think they are welcome - which they are..... if they wear short skirts!!!! God boys irritate me sometimes!! If only they hadve asked.........well - better go play a song
They came into My Favourite Inner City Guitar Store (Not!) one day to buy a lefty acoustic. The assistant was all over them like a rash while they went through a giggling, "She writes songs, she's reeeeaalllly good, go on, sing him one of your songs", nudge, nudge, "Aww gee, no, oh, stop twisting my arm, all right" etc etc routine, you get the picture, while I, being nearly twice their age and decently clad, stood waiting for over 30 mins while they played the same three chords on every geetar in the place, without the assistant so much acknowledging my presence. But hey, the ruckus I created at the front desk as I went to storm out got me the item I needed at a discount so what the heck.
You'll never get folk to use the right word instead of the wrong one until you can make them care about the distinction the correct word is supposed to make. I don't know how you do that. 40 years of being corrected doesn't seem to work. If I'd heard my father correct my mother saying "America" when she meant "the USA", or “England” when she meant “Wales” etc etc one more time in my childhood I'd have gone mad. I get irritated when people talk about classical music when they mean Classical music, and vice versa, and "good" and "bad" microphones when they actually mean is "high sensitivity" and “low sensitivity”. And so on and so forth.
My theory is that the best you can hope for is to make regular offenders so sick of you going off like a skyrocket every time they use the wrong word that they stop doing it in your presence just for the sake of their own eardrums. You need to be absolutely consistent so that they get to the point of flinching instinctively as soon as the word escapes them. They won't *really* get it but at least you won't have to hear it any more.
(Wasn't there a similar discussion on how to stop someone calling a fiddle a violin a few months back?)
It was Irish, couldnt comment on how good it was, I was too busy choking! They eventually left when they realised there were musicians standing waiting not being able to get a seat, at least they had some sense (tho they then got very drunk on wine and lost what little they had) They were clapping and yeeaaainng after every tune:( freaky.
Beebs they sound even more intolerable than our friend Ponchowhistler freak hippy boy! Great story...Tish, the only problem with going off like a skyrocket every time someone uses a word you don't like is that there's a possibility that they'll deliberately keep on using the word just to annoy you. And I don't want to mention names or anything, but Michael (for example) is always talking about "diddly", knowing full well how namby-pamby and annoying it sounds, not to mention the fact that "diddling oneself" refers to masturbation. Well Michael, now you know what you have to do if you really want to annoy me from afar - simply call tunes "songs" and I'll not be able to help myself. Sssongsss indeed! I've never heard of anything so naff in all my life.
If anyone says the word "song" one more time I'm going to SMASH THIS BLOODY COMPUTER!!!!! Sorry, no, breathe deeply, pffffffffffffffffffffffffffwt, it's okay, I'm okay now, sorry.
Hmm - Ponchoboy turned up last week - lets just stay we didnt stick around long enough to know if he started a tune or not! No I'm seriously no *that* band but he brought about 50 people with him from the actors school - no way we could hear ourselves! But just letting you know that he is still around and if you decide to stay over there permanently I understand
If those of you in the UK accidentally tune into Radio One or similar, you'll often hear some of these trendy DJs/presenters referring to the music ? (which includes songs) as TUNES, So, this is the reverse of what we have been discussing. Mind you, I've sometimes great difficulty in identifying anything tuneful in some of the stuff they play.
in answer to danny's question: no, i don't think the use of 'songs' in portland is any sort of deliberate commentary. i think people just don't know any better ... it seems largely (but not entirely) confined to people who've been playing for two or three years tops. i usually just let the use of 'song' pass, but i think i'm going to stop being so restrained
John J: ...except that a song has to have a tune, whereas a tune doesn't necessarily have to be (or have come from) a song.
Beebs: sounds like you've had a bad run of sessions lately what with seshetiquette-ignorant big-headed tarts and Ponchoboy. I wonder if Poncho's aware that he's now known internationally as a serial session hijacker...
Classical Latin had a word - "carmen" - which was used to mean a song or tune, vocal or instrumental. In post-classical Latin (180-600 AD) there was the verb "carminare" meaning "to sing / play", confirming the double meaning of "carmen".
Trevor
I'm glad classical latin had a word for song/tune, but in Irish music as we all know, we call them 'tunes' and I think Dow will get quite irritated with the next newbie who calls a *tune* a 'song'
Dow - maybe a bad run of sessions lately except picture this - last saturday - bright clear sunny day, quite warm tho - prob 30 Deg celcius, bbq at Rona and Barry's (concertina & fiddle - rona's brother tiarnán ó duinnchinn is the pipe player in Dorsa - http://www.dorsa.com/ ) me, benno, Ger and Martha, God! After a lovely lunch in the courtyard at coogee beach (prawns, salad, chips and bbq stuff) didnt we have the most brillant tunes for about 5 or 6 hours - it was like being back in Galway and now we've all had our fill jealous Yet Dow??
um, that'd be "contemporized." Hey Danny (or you other cranio-neuro-techies): Is an increasing frequency of typos symptomatic of anything I should worry about?
Will, be reassured! - I'm sure it's most likely something to do with the qwerty (or similar) design of the keyboard.
The qwerty design was thought up for the early mechanical typewriters in order to slow the typist down, otherwise the machine would jam up. The modern electric keyboard has an incredibly fast response and, unless one has had professional training in typing skills, I think a slight tiredness or inattention is likely to result in a typo.
There's the dvorak keyboard layout, of course. I've never used it, nor do I know anyone who has, but it's said to be much more efficient. It's probably possible to download it from Windows, but then I'd probably never be able to type the instructions to return to qwerty!
Trevor
Further to my post about "carmen", the classical Greeks, who were a far more musical and artistic lot than the Romans, had quite a variety of words concerned with playing instruments (lyre or pipes) and various forms of singing, and generally made a clear distinction between the two activities. But then Greek is a far more precise language than Latin, so that's not surprising.
Trevor
Working, of course. I'm still up, and now it's 8 am. But I'm almost done! By tonight I expect to have everything out the door. And me in bed, for once.
You say Carmeena, I say Carmyna -- let's call the whole thing Orff.
And if you're interested, Windows comes with the Dvorak (relative of the composer, for those looking for musical content) keyboard installed. Just go to control panel / keyboard / Input locale / properties, and select the version of your choice. You too can enjoy total confusion!
Dvorak actually seems like a great idea if you're worried about overuse injuries from keyboarding at work plus playing an instrument a lot. Here's an article...
Liz Carroll - tune
Liz Carroll - tune
Does anyone know where I might get a copy of Liz Carrolls trad version of Canon in D? It's brilliant!!
I'm sure it must have some classical composers quivering in their graves....
D.
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by DG
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Errr...could you possibly mean Pachelbel's Frolic? http://thesession.org/tunes/display.php/487
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Quite possibly. Heard it on a radio station here in Ireland one evening. Might even be Eileen Ivers and not Liz Carroll. Can't remember what the radio presenter said. Will check that tune out.
Thanks!
Dor
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by DG
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Probably Ivers, off the Wild Blue album...if it started with a big long windup of a classical sounding thing, it was Ivers and Horan.
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
That's the very one, thanks. Will look for the album.
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by DG
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Unless it was a live broadcast or a recording of a live broadcast that you heard, it was probably Eileen Ivers not Liz Carroll you heard playing the Pachelbel tune. Eileen recorded it on the eponymous CD she did for Green Linnet, but AFAIK Liz has never recorded it.
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by johnkerr
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Be warned, Dor, that's when Ivers started off into the wild blue with her stuff!
I love that album, personally, but total trad purists hate it.
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
When I was in the States I met so many American (Irish) trad. musicians who just hated E. Ivers playing. I thought that was strange somehow. I expected more enthusiasm from her fellow Americans. Especially because this woman can play so well. She is just a genius, I think. She can play trad but she is well able to go a step further. To do that might not be everybody's idea of Irish music but how can that make people hate her playing? I personally love fiddle players like Brian Rooney, Paddy Glackin, Gerry O'Connor, John Carty who all play very differently to Eileen Ivers but I would never say I hate Ivers playing. I wonder if those who say they "hate" it are not a bit jealous or maybe these are the people who know exactly what good taste is and what isn't?
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by Irish Trad. Head
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
BTW, I checked the Green Linnet website, and the Pachelbel piece is on her "Eileen Ivers" CD, not on "Wild Blue". The eponymous CD is a good bit more trad than what came later, but it's still "out there". I first met Eileen when she was barely out of her teens, and she was "out there" even then. I must say that I liked her older stuff better than what she's doing now. Not that what she's doing now is bad, it's just not my thing. I'd say the same thing about what Solas is doing now compared to what they were doing when they started, or even what Seamus Egan was doing before Solas formed. In fact, in the early '90s Seamus Egan and Eileen Ivers were doing a lot of playing together (frequently with John Doyle and an African drummer called Kim Ati Dinizulu). Not much of that collaboration was ever recorded (the brilliant set of tunes with just Seamus and Eileen on the Dear Old Erin's Isle CD is one notable exception), but I caught their act live a few times back then, and I really liked it. In thinking about what has changed between then and now to turn me off of it, I think it's not so much her playing as it is all the drums and other hoopla she's surrounding herself with these days. Just one non-hateful American's opinion...
PS I heard her say in a recorded interview (or maybe it was a printed interview I read) that she's gonna do a trad album sometime before long. I for one am looking forward to that!
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by johnkerr
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
I personally think she's a wonderful player, but I don't care for her mixed stuff. Just not my cup of tea.
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Getting back to Liz Carroll. If anyone is interested in learning some of her tunes, you could check these out on her web site.
http://www.lizcarroll.com/sheetMusic.htm
John
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by Johannes J
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
I've always enjoyed Eileen Ivers' playing--she's got impeccable timing, great lift and tone, precision in everything she does yet full of verve and spirit. Her straight trad stuff is as good as it gets, and her world-fusion stuff is way more musical than most. She's also smart, personable, and funny as hell. The fact that her world-fusion stuff isn't what I listen to no doubt says way more about me than it does her....
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by Will CPT
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Did you notice on Liz's website she calls them 'songs' instead of 'tunes' - weird
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by bb
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
bb, that usage is quite common now. I used to wonder at it, but you find it everywhere, including audio applications on pcs.
I think the problem is that there doesn't seem to be a useful snappy word to mean "pieces of music" (now isn't that awkward phraseology?) whether played on an instrument or vocalised solo or accompanied, as distinct from a "tune" as such. So "song" has now become the de facto all-purpose term for this function. The unspoken logic is probably that singing is one of the most fundamental ways of making music (along with rhythm), and most music in popular culture (I'm not being pejorative here, just factual) is essentially vocal. And of course it is the popular culture that drives the record industry.
Trevor
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by lazyhound
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Well, no one I play with calls them songs - they call them tunes - this is true in the case of both Ireland and Australia, I cringe if someone calls them 'songs' - you may as well come up and ask if you can listen to my 'Jam' (instead of session
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by bb
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
I suspect Liz either has a reason for it, or hasn't yet corrected her webmaster.
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by Will CPT
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
I'd say the latter. I don't think Ms. Carroll spends a whole lot of time online, so she may not have noticed. "Songs" isn't a common usage for "tune" around here, that's for sure, and it'd get you scorn in the bigger cities round this side of the pond...
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
I just thought it was funny thats all - I knew you didnt call them songs zina because of that comment you made about it the other day
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by bb
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
"Songs" is utterly cringifying and very namby-pamby sounding. I even prefer the term "diddly" which is only slightly less namby-pamby. "Tunes" really isn't a difficult word to get your head around...
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by Dow
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Yup - have to agree Dow
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by bb
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
have any of you heard the Martin Hayes version of Curious p's. i really like it and it works so well since it ends that 20 some minute long set. Definitly an awsome ending!
AJ
# Posted on November 17th 2003 by berserker
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
"Tunes" is correct. "Songs" is incorrect. "Songs" refers to pieces of music with words. Forget all that old madam about the record industry and popular culture. End of story.
I cringe when I see "Tchunes" or "Chunes" written. How passé. It may have been funny for one outing 100 years ago, but I've seen someone use it consistently throughout their post to the extent that I couldn't concentrate on what they were saying, Chunes this and Chunes that.
There's me being a spelling-fascist again.
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Wow, the king of dialectical spelling dissing "tchunes." You tea must've been weak this morning Danny. *grin*
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by Will CPT
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Will, you only do it to annoy because you know it teases. ;)
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Ah - so you're the cuprit, Harmon. Naughty naughty boy. Go and write out "tunes" 200 times.
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
toons, toons, toons, toons, toons.....
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by Will CPT
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
a whole bunch of the newer players in portland call tunes 'songs.' it makes me nuts. i just want to shake them until they stop it.
crabbily,
sarah
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by eleyne
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Yeah Will - and if you play those in your car, would they be cartoo...
So Sarah, is this a deliberate trend or just extended ignorance? If it's a deliberate trend, why so? Maybe they are of the belief that the music has such a powerful "voice" that each "tchune/toon/tune" should be elevated to the status of being a "song"...if so, that's worrying...Hmmm....
ultramegahypercrabbily,
Danny.
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by Key Maniac Lad
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
There's only one thing for it. Every Irish tune has to have lyrics written for it, the more doubtful in taste the better
- thinks: the last 7 words of the previous sentence would scan in a jig, wouldn't they?
Trevor
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by lazyhound
Dow rant
The idea that there are sessions out there where people turn up and actually talk about playing "songs" makes me so crabby I'm weak and out of breath. It's no wonder America has a "one person gets angry with the world and goes out and shoots everyone in the neighbourhood" problem. If I had to go to a session and be faced with an evening of "sssongsss" ... "thongth" ... I'd probably end up doing the same. Sarah, please tell them to stop being so unbelievably irritating, if only for their own personal safety, otherwise I might have to make a special trip to Portland and shake them myself. In fact, you could print out this thread and tell them how the whole world is talking about how utterly namby-pamby they are!
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by Dow
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Hey thats a good idea sarah - print out this thread and show them. Do they not realise that people would seriously start laughing at them if they turned up to a session and started calling tunes 'songs'. What is that famous saying, oh yes thats it 'Ignorace doesnt hold up in court!'
PS DOW!!! You missed the most hilarious thing on sunday - seeing as we are on the subject of totally ignorant people in sessions - this is the censored version of what actually happened;
'I lost my temper at the session on sunday night *BIG* time. We had just tune up and these two girls come in (little tops, short skirts -you know the drill) and they go "we are going to sit with you while you jam" (didnt ask but told us thats what they were going to do) -I swear this is no lie (danger, danger will robinson!) God allmighty - sure didnt they go to sit in two seats around the table that were for the musicians! (we are always scimping for seats as it is in this pub as there are never enough)
So our piper says 'Ah sorry, those seats are for the other musicians' and they reply 'we are musicians' and just sit down - 'oh' we say 'what do you play', they then say 'piano and guitar' - only thing is they dont have either a piano or guitar anywhere in sight. So already I hate them - and my blood is boiling, of all the feckin cheek! B
Before we even play *one* tune or even get a sip of *one* pint one of the girls says of the other - "she can sing an Irish song - and she is really, really brilliant so lets all listen to her sing"
So the friend starts bloody singing! for fecks sake!! we hadnt even one tune!!!! So I cannot help it - it was just the worst session etique Ive ever seen - I tried so hard not to, but it just happenend -I burst out laughing - couldnt stop - like when you get told off at school & you know your going to get the cane but no matter how much pain youre going to feel you just cannot stop! And Ger was telling me to shush and I couldnt stop - had tears streaming down my face and then I started choking on my pint. But in the end - I could give a toss - what total lack of respect.
- It took all my self control not to tell them to get lost! But of course the boys loved it!!! They were cheering and clapping and now these
two girls will probably come again cause they think they are welcome - which they are..... if they wear short skirts!!!! God boys irritate me sometimes!! If only they hadve asked.........well - better go play a song
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by bb
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Hey, bb, I know those two girls.
They came into My Favourite Inner City Guitar Store (Not!) one day to buy a lefty acoustic. The assistant was all over them like a rash while they went through a giggling, "She writes songs, she's reeeeaalllly good, go on, sing him one of your songs", nudge, nudge, "Aww gee, no, oh, stop twisting my arm, all right" etc etc routine, you get the picture, while I, being nearly twice their age and decently clad, stood waiting for over 30 mins while they played the same three chords on every geetar in the place, without the assistant so much acknowledging my presence. But hey, the ruckus I created at the front desk as I went to storm out got me the item I needed at a discount so what the heck.
You'll never get folk to use the right word instead of the wrong one until you can make them care about the distinction the correct word is supposed to make. I don't know how you do that. 40 years of being corrected doesn't seem to work. If I'd heard my father correct my mother saying "America" when she meant "the USA", or “England” when she meant “Wales” etc etc one more time in my childhood I'd have gone mad. I get irritated when people talk about classical music when they mean Classical music, and vice versa, and "good" and "bad" microphones when they actually mean is "high sensitivity" and “low sensitivity”. And so on and so forth.
My theory is that the best you can hope for is to make regular offenders so sick of you going off like a skyrocket every time they use the wrong word that they stop doing it in your presence just for the sake of their own eardrums. You need to be absolutely consistent so that they get to the point of flinching instinctively as soon as the word escapes them. They won't *really* get it but at least you won't have to hear it any more.
(Wasn't there a similar discussion on how to stop someone calling a fiddle a violin a few months back?)
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by Tish
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
So, umm, what happened after the song, bb? And was it Irish and brilliant?
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by Tish
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
It was Irish, couldnt comment on how good it was, I was too busy choking! They eventually left when they realised there were musicians standing waiting not being able to get a seat, at least they had some sense (tho they then got very drunk on wine and lost what little they had) They were clapping and yeeaaainng after every tune:( freaky.
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by bb
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
LOL, and Dow says Portland has troubles! *snort*
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by Will CPT
Dow rant II
Beebs they sound even more intolerable than our friend Ponchowhistler freak hippy boy! Great story...Tish, the only problem with going off like a skyrocket every time someone uses a word you don't like is that there's a possibility that they'll deliberately keep on using the word just to annoy you. And I don't want to mention names or anything, but Michael (for example) is always talking about "diddly", knowing full well how namby-pamby and annoying it sounds, not to mention the fact that "diddling oneself" refers to masturbation. Well Michael, now you know what you have to do if you really want to annoy me from afar - simply call tunes "songs" and I'll not be able to help myself. Sssongsss indeed! I've never heard of anything so naff in all my life.
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by Dow
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
I have a cd somewhere of original solo piano tunes (no vocals whatsoever) called "Songs Without Words."
C'mon Danny, lets find ourselves some miniskirted fillies and have ourselves a night of chewnz and shongce and kraque over a point er chew.
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by Will CPT
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
If anyone says the word "song" one more time I'm going to SMASH THIS BLOODY COMPUTER!!!!! Sorry, no, breathe deeply, pffffffffffffffffffffffffffwt, it's okay, I'm okay now, sorry.
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by Dow
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Hmm - Ponchoboy turned up last week - lets just stay we didnt stick around long enough to know if he started a tune or not! No I'm seriously no *that* band but he brought about 50 people with him from the actors school - no way we could hear ourselves! But just letting you know that he is still around and if you decide to stay over there permanently I understand
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by bb
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
If those of you in the UK accidentally tune into Radio One or similar, you'll often hear some of these trendy DJs/presenters referring to the music ? (which includes songs) as TUNES, So, this is the reverse of what we have been discussing. Mind you, I've sometimes great difficulty in identifying anything tuneful in some of the stuff they play.
John
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by Johannes J
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
in answer to danny's question: no, i don't think the use of 'songs' in portland is any sort of deliberate commentary. i think people just don't know any better ... it seems largely (but not entirely) confined to people who've been playing for two or three years tops. i usually just let the use of 'song' pass, but i think i'm going to stop being so restrained
sarah
# Posted on November 18th 2003 by eleyne
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
John J: ...except that a song has to have a tune, whereas a tune doesn't necessarily have to be (or have come from) a song.
Beebs: sounds like you've had a bad run of sessions lately what with seshetiquette-ignorant big-headed tarts and Ponchoboy. I wonder if Poncho's aware that he's now known internationally as a serial session hijacker...
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Dow
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Classical Latin had a word - "carmen" - which was used to mean a song or tune, vocal or instrumental. In post-classical Latin (180-600 AD) there was the verb "carminare" meaning "to sing / play", confirming the double meaning of "carmen".
Trevor
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by lazyhound
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
...and contemproized by Carmen Electra--electronic "songs or tunes."
(Well, somebody had to post it
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Will CPT
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
I'm glad classical latin had a word for song/tune, but in Irish music as we all know, we call them 'tunes' and I think Dow will get quite irritated with the next newbie who calls a *tune* a 'song'
Dow - maybe a bad run of sessions lately except picture this - last saturday - bright clear sunny day, quite warm tho - prob 30 Deg celcius, bbq at Rona and Barry's (concertina & fiddle - rona's brother tiarnán ó duinnchinn is the pipe player in Dorsa - http://www.dorsa.com/ ) me, benno, Ger and Martha, God! After a lovely lunch in the courtyard at coogee beach (prawns, salad, chips and bbq stuff) didnt we have the most brillant tunes for about 5 or 6 hours - it was like being back in Galway and now we've all had our fill
jealous Yet Dow??
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by bb
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
um, that'd be "contemporized." Hey Danny (or you other cranio-neuro-techies): Is an increasing frequency of typos symptomatic of anything I should worry about?
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Will CPT
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Will, be reassured! - I'm sure it's most likely something to do with the qwerty (or similar) design of the keyboard.
The qwerty design was thought up for the early mechanical typewriters in order to slow the typist down, otherwise the machine would jam up. The modern electric keyboard has an incredibly fast response and, unless one has had professional training in typing skills, I think a slight tiredness or inattention is likely to result in a typo.
There's the dvorak keyboard layout, of course. I've never used it, nor do I know anyone who has, but it's said to be much more efficient. It's probably possible to download it from Windows, but then I'd probably never be able to type the instructions to return to qwerty!
Trevor
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by lazyhound
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Further to my post about "carmen", the classical Greeks, who were a far more musical and artistic lot than the Romans, had quite a variety of words concerned with playing instruments (lyre or pipes) and various forms of singing, and generally made a clear distinction between the two activities. But then Greek is a far more precise language than Latin, so that's not surprising.
Trevor
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by lazyhound
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Perhaps it's that little thing called "lack of sleep", Will. I feel your pain. Heh.
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Yes, the lack of sheep really is getting to me, what with winter coming on. I'm sorry to hear you're sheep depraved, oops, er, deprived, too.
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Will CPT
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Oh, Will. That was so baaaaaaa-a-a-a-a-hd.
*snort*
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Ssssh you two. Don't talk about sheep too loudly or you'll get Trevor excited. And maybe Bridie half excited...
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Dow
(Not to mention readers in New Zealand)
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Dow
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Ah yes, Montana, where the men are men, the women are scarce, and the sheep are nervous...
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Zina, what are you doing up at 3:00 am?
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Andee
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
How about some sheep tunes? e.g. The battering ram, Sheep Island are possibles or that old Seekers hit "I'll never find another ewe."
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Johannes J
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Somebody has to say it... "My Darling A Sheep".
... which is what I should be right now (yawn)... Asleep, that is.
# Posted on November 19th 2003 by Tish
Re: Liz Carroll - tune
Working, of course.
I'm still up, and now it's 8 am. But I'm almost done! By tonight I expect to have everything out the door. And me in bed, for once.
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Uses for Latin...
You say Carmeena, I say Carmyna -- let's call the whole thing Orff.
And if you're interested, Windows comes with the Dvorak (relative of the composer, for those looking for musical content) keyboard installed. Just go to control panel / keyboard / Input locale / properties, and select the version of your choice. You too can enjoy total confusion!
Dvorak actually seems like a great idea if you're worried about overuse injuries from keyboarding at work plus playing an instrument a lot. Here's an article...
http://archive.salon.com/21st/feature/1998/10/12feature.html
Naturally, anorak in Dvorak would be "a;soav".
# Posted on November 20th 2003 by Gzeg