Ah the pain we endure for the love of the music. Recently I've been finding that my jaw is getting very stiff, and clicking quite a lot too. The only thing I can put it down to is from playing the fiddle, I got a shoulder rest some time back but I just couldn't take to it, so I don't use it now. Does anybody else out there have similar problems and or solutions?
Just carry the fiddle with your collar bone and your left hand, DON'T put your chin down or raise your shoulder; vibrato and position shifts are unusual in ITM, so generally all that is needed is your collar bone and your left hand to support the fiddle ....
Yes, many of us have jaw tension from playing fiddle, and the problem worsens with the amount of tension. I have looked at this problem in detail, as I play a lot. I usually use a shoulder rest, but not always.
Shoulder rests differ a lot, so be sure you try an adjustable, flexible one. I've probably tried them all, even a recent innovation called Bonmusica, but couldn't really get along with that. There's also the ubiquitous Kun, but it's made of a plastic, non-bendable base and is impossible to customise.
The one I like best is the Wolf Fort Primo, but I don't use it as it comes in the package. It's made on a metal base, which can be bent. So I bent the end that goes back on the shoulder (over the back of a chair, covering the end attachment bit with a thickly folded wad of cloth so I didn't hurt my hand - you have to push quite hard) so it fits over my shoulder more, and when it's in position this results in a smaller distance from the part resting on my shoulder/chest below the collar bone to my chin. I have a long neck, so I adjusted the screws at each end of the rest.
I teach children to play, and when I customise their shoulder rests this way, they always say it feels better.
Sorry, my keyboard did a weird sort of flip and started typing gibberish. Back to the topic - when the shoulder rest/chinrest set-up is best for your personal shape, there will be less tension as you play. But try to be very aware of any pressing down on the chinrest, and avoid it.
I've found the Alexander technique of keeping the head up, lengthening the neck and back, very helpful.
Also, when I remember to loosen up and stretch my shoulders out before playing, it's pain-free.
Of course, if I forget this, I do sometimes end up with a back/shoulder ache.
The easy answer is to quit clamping down on your fiddle with your jaw. Really, that's not necessary. I like the advice given to me ages ago that you don't hold the fiddle as much as simply stand or sit under it, like resting the fiddle on a table.
I use a shoulder rest (A Kuhn, one with a wooden frame), but mostly because the foam pad on it provides some friction against my collarbone area, rather than expecting the slick back of the fiddle itself to somehow stay up on my shoulder. But the only time I clamp the fiddle between my jaw and shoulder is when I'm using my left hand to tweak the fine tuners on the tailpiece. Being able to hold it "hands free" lets me tune with the left while bowing with the right. That takes only a minute at most. While actually playing, for hours at a time, there's little to no pressure from my jaw on the chin rest, and my left shoulder stays down and relaxed.
Also, if you find yourself staring at the ground, head bowed over the fiddle, when you play, try focusing on a higher point--at least at eye level, and maybe even higher (like where the wall meets the ceiling of the room you're in). This helps keep your head up, rather than bearing down on the fiddle.
Thanks for the suggestions, I think my problem is as much from the way I clench my jaws together when playing rather than actually clamping the fiddle between my jaw and shoulder. I must try and discipline myseld a little more and try using the shoulder rest more. We must endeavour to persevere...
I used to do that, too. Getting rid of that excess tension will improve your playing, besides alleviating the jaw problems. I think it was Kerri who said you should approach playing as "play time," not work, and think in terms of lifting the tune out of the fiddle rather than grinding it into it. Maybe that'll help.
Will's advice, as always, says it all!
If you get the chance, see Oisin Mac Diarmada in action. No shoulder rest, no chinrest, and his fiddle seems to wander around from anywhere between his collar bone and the middle of his chest. His chin almost never touches the instrument. And vibrato and position shifts are all there when required. He looks incredibly relaxed.
On another thread a short time ago I mentioned that the shoulder-rest is a post-WW2 phenomenon, and that the chinrest was invented roundabout 1820. So for a considerable time violinists/fiddler players have been getting on quite successfully without one or both of these rests.
Trevor
Picking up on Will's point regarding the fiddle's slippery back - if you find that's a problem but otherwise don't need/want a shoulder rest, you could try what a lot of baroque players do and get a piece of chamois to drape over the end of the instrument before putting it on your shoulder. It keeps sweat and oil off the instrument, top and bottom, and stops the back sliding around on your clothes.
Stiff-jawed fiddlers or slack-jawed yokels...
Stiff-jawed fiddlers or slack-jawed yokels...
Ah the pain we endure for the love of the music. Recently I've been finding that my jaw is getting very stiff, and clicking quite a lot too. The only thing I can put it down to is from playing the fiddle, I got a shoulder rest some time back but I just couldn't take to it, so I don't use it now. Does anybody else out there have similar problems and or solutions?
# Posted on November 15th 2003 by oraghalm
Re: Stiff-jawed fiddlers or slack-jawed yokels...
Just carry the fiddle with your collar bone and your left hand, DON'T put your chin down or raise your shoulder; vibrato and position shifts are unusual in ITM, so generally all that is needed is your collar bone and your left hand to support the fiddle ....
# Posted on November 16th 2003 by Henk Bos
Re: Stiff-jawed fiddlers or slack-jawed yokels...
Yes, many of us have jaw tension from playing fiddle, and the problem worsens with the amount of tension. I have looked at this problem in detail, as I play a lot. I usually use a shoulder rest, but not always.
Shoulder rests differ a lot, so be sure you try an adjustable, flexible one. I've probably tried them all, even a recent innovation called Bonmusica, but couldn't really get along with that. There's also the ubiquitous Kun, but it's made of a plastic, non-bendable base and is impossible to customise.
The one I like best is the Wolf Fort Primo, but I don't use it as it comes in the package. It's made on a metal base, which can be bent. So I bent the end that goes back on the shoulder (over the back of a chair, covering the end attachment bit with a thickly folded wad of cloth so I didn't hurt my hand - you have to push quite hard) so it fits over my shoulder more, and when it's in position this results in a smaller distance from the part resting on my shoulder/chest below the collar bone to my chin. I have a long neck, so I adjusted the screws at each end of the rest.
I teach children to play, and when I customise their shoulder rests this way, they always say it feels better.
# Posted on November 16th 2003 by fiddlefingers
Re: Stiff-jawed fiddlers or slack-jawed yokels...
Sorry, my keyboard did a weird sort of flip and started typing gibberish. Back to the topic - when the shoulder rest/chinrest set-up is best for your personal shape, there will be less tension as you play. But try to be very aware of any pressing down on the chinrest, and avoid it.
I've found the Alexander technique of keeping the head up, lengthening the neck and back, very helpful.
Also, when I remember to loosen up and stretch my shoulders out before playing, it's pain-free.
Of course, if I forget this, I do sometimes end up with a back/shoulder ache.
Best luck!
# Posted on November 16th 2003 by fiddlefingers
Re: Stiff-jawed fiddlers or slack-jawed yokels...
Warming up the muscles really helps. Yeuhdi Menuin's book gives some interesting advice!!
# Posted on November 16th 2003 by Susie-Lee
Re: Stiff-jawed fiddlers or slack-jawed yokels...
The easy answer is to quit clamping down on your fiddle with your jaw. Really, that's not necessary. I like the advice given to me ages ago that you don't hold the fiddle as much as simply stand or sit under it, like resting the fiddle on a table.
I use a shoulder rest (A Kuhn, one with a wooden frame), but mostly because the foam pad on it provides some friction against my collarbone area, rather than expecting the slick back of the fiddle itself to somehow stay up on my shoulder. But the only time I clamp the fiddle between my jaw and shoulder is when I'm using my left hand to tweak the fine tuners on the tailpiece. Being able to hold it "hands free" lets me tune with the left while bowing with the right. That takes only a minute at most. While actually playing, for hours at a time, there's little to no pressure from my jaw on the chin rest, and my left shoulder stays down and relaxed.
Also, if you find yourself staring at the ground, head bowed over the fiddle, when you play, try focusing on a higher point--at least at eye level, and maybe even higher (like where the wall meets the ceiling of the room you're in). This helps keep your head up, rather than bearing down on the fiddle.
# Posted on November 16th 2003 by Will CPT
Re: Stiff-jawed fiddlers or slack-jawed yokels...
Thanks for the suggestions, I think my problem is as much from the way I clench my jaws together when playing rather than actually clamping the fiddle between my jaw and shoulder. I must try and discipline myseld a little more and try using the shoulder rest more. We must endeavour to persevere...
# Posted on November 16th 2003 by oraghalm
Re: Stiff-jawed fiddlers or slack-jawed yokels...
I used to do that, too. Getting rid of that excess tension will improve your playing, besides alleviating the jaw problems. I think it was Kerri who said you should approach playing as "play time," not work, and think in terms of lifting the tune out of the fiddle rather than grinding it into it. Maybe that'll help.
# Posted on November 16th 2003 by Will CPT
Re: Stiff-jawed fiddlers or slack-jawed yokels...
Will's advice, as always, says it all!
If you get the chance, see Oisin Mac Diarmada in action. No shoulder rest, no chinrest, and his fiddle seems to wander around from anywhere between his collar bone and the middle of his chest. His chin almost never touches the instrument. And vibrato and position shifts are all there when required. He looks incredibly relaxed.
On another thread a short time ago I mentioned that the shoulder-rest is a post-WW2 phenomenon, and that the chinrest was invented roundabout 1820. So for a considerable time violinists/fiddler players have been getting on quite successfully without one or both of these rests.
Trevor
# Posted on November 16th 2003 by lazyhound
Re: Stiff-jawed fiddlers or slack-jawed yokels...
Picking up on Will's point regarding the fiddle's slippery back - if you find that's a problem but otherwise don't need/want a shoulder rest, you could try what a lot of baroque players do and get a piece of chamois to drape over the end of the instrument before putting it on your shoulder. It keeps sweat and oil off the instrument, top and bottom, and stops the back sliding around on your clothes.
# Posted on November 16th 2003 by Tish