Here's a question for any experienced fiddle teachers out there (Miss Lonelyhearts et al, I'm looking at ye).
I've been reading some of the old threads here on left handed fiddle players and they seem to support my long held opinion that a beginner on the fiddle feels such like a duck out of water that left or right handedness doesn't make that much of a difference. And the difficulty involved in getting good left handed fiddles is fairly prohibitive.
I taught a small class for a while in the University of Limerick about 10 years ago, and had a left handed student (a young adult). I advised her that she should learn to play a normal fiddle and she got quite upset with me – like I was discriminating against her.
I've taught only a little since then, off and on, but am now considering getting into teaching in a more serious way. I've gotten older and settled down a bit. The thing is, I know for a fact that I will encounter another left handed student at some stage, and I'd like to have a good well researched answer for him/her. I want to provide the best advice possible.
I'd be very interested to know how other experienced fiddle teachers out there would handle the situation.
Maybe you ought to ask left-handed fiddlers rather than right-handed teachers!
Personally, as long as the l-h student has no intentions of ever playing in an orchestra, I would encourage him or her to go left-handed. I think having your dominant hand on the bow is vitally important.
Ah, this is a good topic. I am trying to learn fiddle, but honestly, as a long-time string player, this topic is by no means exclusive to fiddle, I'll warrant. I used to sell musical instruments, mainly guitars, and this was always a question when a lefty came in to look at guitars. You are right on the money in your assessment. This is by no means an absolute, and can be subjective.
Any potential student of any instrument, I believe, should be encouraged, and courteous manner, to consider learning the instrument right-handed. I find that most prospective musicians, regardless of the instrument, can handle this just fine if they've never touched and instrument. It's when a person has already "encoded" the handedness of an instrument that it becomes a bigger issue. Like I said, this is by no means absolute, as some people are just so left-hand dominant that they could only learn an instrument that way. Famed rock and roller Jimi Hendrix was one. He said once that left-handed was the only way he could conceive playing an instrument. His first guitar was a righ-handed instrument, which he had to alter to make it left-handed. But, in my opinion, he was unusual in that respect.
If someone feels discriminated against, there's not much you can do to predict that or do about it. They're probably inclined to feel discriminated against from the outset. Proper wording of the recommendation will usually prevent that however. I always used to say "you may want to consider learning right-handed if you think you can do that, as you'll find that you have more options when it comes to finding instruments. Would you say you are 'very' right-hand dominant?" Then the conversation would go from there.
It's all about what your brain is programmed to do. As a right-handed plectrum player, I find it is so ingrained that when I try to play piano I struggle, because with plectrum my rhythm is in my right hand, whereas in piano it's in the left hand, so I have problems. But the piano example is a good example about how the handedness of the potential musician doesn't have to determine how they play and instrument.
I usually describe the tradeoffs between the two options and leave it up to the student.
I also tend to mention that I'm a lefty myself, and play fiddle, mandolin, guitar, banjo, flute, etc. with *both* hands. This gets a smile if not a chuckle, and helps people think about handedness in a different light.
In my experience, most lefties are so accustomed to living in a right-hand world (scissors, writing materials, door knobs) that we're more ambidextrous than the average righty. So it's not that big a deal. If a lefty really wanted to play lefty, I'd do my best to help them find a decent instrument and get them on their way.
i agree with jimmy b, i use my plec in my right hand but when at school i have to play the piano i get really muddeled. when i learnt the fiddle i was in a small group of 7 and there was one l-h boy who was told to play on the fiddle provided in the r-h style insisted on playing in the l-h style on a r-h fiddle. it drove our teacher round the bend.
Ah, Lonelyhearts, that sounds perfectly plausible. I have no doubt that lefties are more ambidextrous on the whole than use righties. We have everything handed to us...on a right-handed platter no less.
If a right-handed fiddler who's been around a bit wants to experience something of what it's like to be a raw beginner again, let him or her pick up the fiddle and play it left-handed.
I think anyone learning the violin and deciding they want a left handed instrument would be doing themselves a huge dis-service. Left handed fiddles are very thin on the ground - you won't get one at all on a student budget, and will be severely limiting your choice of instrument for the whole of your career.
I've always assumed that the only reason there are ANY left handed violins on the market is that makers occasionally goof up and stick the bass bar on the wrong side by mistake.
Playing right handed shouldn't be too much of a problem if you do it from the start. I know at least one professional orchestral left hander, and Paganini was alledgedly a leftie who played right handed, and he seemed to do alright.
An alternative might be to play a right handed instrument left handed, like Jimi Hendrix. I know one fiddler who does that. All you need then is someone to make you a left handed chinrest.
But I think if I had a student who couldn't or wouldn't play right handed, I'd suggest they learn the whistle instead.
I'm a leftie but I play fiddle and woodwinds in the orthodox way.
It has been a hard struggle getting the bowing under control but
I have heard right handed players fumbling even worse than I do.
It's probably a disadvantage with something like tremolo or rapid
staccato bowing but how often does that come up in Trad
music? I've tried out these bowings and I know I could do them
well if I needed to.
The maximum speed is just a bit slower than it would be
with a rightie. On the other hand a leftie might have an
advantage with left hand ornamentation. I can do very fast rolls
and trills on left hand notes that I cannot match with
my right (on flute and whistle).
Hi All, I' m new on thesession.org, been meaning to sign up for years and finally got around to it recently. I think this is a really interesting topic - my daughter is left-handed and was thinking of learning the fiddle when she was around 10 (shes 14 now), she eventually opted for the concertina but, at the time, I asked some of the lefty fiddle players I know for advice. One woman in particular, who I had known and played with for years before I found out that she was left-handed told me it didn't make much difference - she plays right-handed and is one of the most outstanding fiddle players I've ever heard. She originally learnt while in national school in Toonagh in Co Clare and didn't know any better at the time. However, if she had previously learnt to play, say, a mandolin or banjo left-handed, I imagine it would have been impossible. I've seen a few videos of the legendary American guitarist Elizabeth Cotten (check her out on youtube) who played a right-handed guitar left-haded upside down without switching the strings around - she developed her own style of playing ragtime-blues with the thumb playing the melody and her other fingers playing the bass end.
One final thing - have ye ever noticed how many flute players play left-handed? I'd safely bet that it's above the average percentage of lefties in the general population. I know at least 5 flute r-h players who play left-handed, the reason being that when they learnt to play the whistle as children they mirrored the teacher's hand positions on the whistle (presuming the teacher was r-h and played r-h) - I learnt the whistle in national school left-handed and I'm right-handed.
...and Ashley MacIsaac, who plays a right-handed fiddle left-handed. Oddly, I haven't seen anyone suggest that option .
I know a handful of left-handed fiddlers and violinists - in my very small sample, those who started playing as children play right-handed, while those who picked up the instrument as adults play left-handed. I don't know if that holds in general. When I observed that one fiddler who played righty was a lefty, she commented that she didn't think much of it, and that as a lefty on fiddle, she found that her left hand developed fairly easily but the bowing was more of a challenge. But it seems that that's the case for everyone, regardless of handedness! (That said, I wonder if lefties playing righty tend to learn vibrato (and, as Hup mentions, rolls, sooner or more easily than righties.)
As an aside, I do wheel-thrown pottery, and was taught to throw with the wheel spinning counterclockwise; the left-handed students in my class were taught to spin the wheel clockwise. Most potters I know follow this convention, and it's the one I teach; though pottery, like fiddle, uses both hands, it uses them in different ways, and I myself can't throw clockwise. But some years ago I discovered that potters in many eastern countries, such in Japan, throw clockwise, regardless of handedness. They've obviously developed a different approach to the wheel, and I've since started to wonder if there's really anything intrinsic about the left-clockwise/right-counterclockwise technique that is in common use in the west. Likewise, I'm not entirely convinced that it's obvious that a fiddler's dominant hand should hold the bow.
Thanks for all the insights guys. I think they will definitely help me explain things to any prospective lefty fiddle students.
I myself am right handed, but I learned the tin whistle left handed. Now I couldn't even imagine playing a flute or whistle right handed. It would feel totally wrong. I thought the same principle might apply to the fiddle.
I'm another leftie, very dominantly left handed in most everything I do. exceptions are filed hockey because you cannot play left handed if everyone else is right and fiddling. To me it seems perfectly natural to have the left hand doing all that precise fingering. I know others say that the right hand on the bow does much more intricate work, but if you can't get the fingers in the right place all is lost. So I would encourage a lefty to oick up the fiddle first without the bow, and I reckon it would naturally tuck under the left side of the chin and be held with the left hand. Do that first and once they are comfortable give them the bow, they will have to use the right.
I honestly reckon all you right handers are doing it the difficult way! The first fiddler was a ham fisted, sinister, cack handed lefty
Just as a matter of interest, I heard that someone had made a left-handed piano, and got some left-handed professionals to try it out. Within an hour or so, their brains had made the switch, and they all said it was far better to play. What happened to them after was not mentioned, but I suppose there are some frustrated pianists out there now.
I am left handed, but play fiddle right handed, and have never had any problem with this. I think it's the things you do one handed that need to be done with your dominant hand, (writing, cleaning teeth, using a hammer, as a few examples), but the fiddle uses both hands.
I teach fiddle, some of my pupils are left handed, but have been happy to learn right handed, especially as I can point out that I am left handed myself!
A major disadvantage of playing left handed is that left handed fiddles are hard to find, especially in children's sizes.
I have thought about trying the fiddle, but my natural inclination would be to play left handed, and this has put me off.
I currently play the flute and whistle right-handed, which feels like the natural way for me to play. If I were to pick up a guitar (which I dont play), I'd also do it LH'd. Same with a rifle (which I rarely do!)
Its puzzled me for ages why one instrument feels natural LH'd and others RH'd. I write with my left hand, but would play all sports RH'd, if thats any sort of clue.
I had read something ages ago about left or right handedness being specific to part of your arm. For example, you could be left handed, but right armed (if that makes sense!). But it doesnt help me explain my handedness ....
It doesn't matter whether you're left or right-handed, bowing is always a difficult challenge on the violin.
As an aside, to help you on your way there's no substitute for the best teacher you can get hold of.
Left handed fiddle students
Left handed fiddle students
Here's a question for any experienced fiddle teachers out there (Miss Lonelyhearts et al, I'm looking at ye).
I've been reading some of the old threads here on left handed fiddle players and they seem to support my long held opinion that a beginner on the fiddle feels such like a duck out of water that left or right handedness doesn't make that much of a difference. And the difficulty involved in getting good left handed fiddles is fairly prohibitive.
I taught a small class for a while in the University of Limerick about 10 years ago, and had a left handed student (a young adult). I advised her that she should learn to play a normal fiddle and she got quite upset with me – like I was discriminating against her.
I've taught only a little since then, off and on, but am now considering getting into teaching in a more serious way. I've gotten older and settled down a bit. The thing is, I know for a fact that I will encounter another left handed student at some stage, and I'd like to have a good well researched answer for him/her. I want to provide the best advice possible.
I'd be very interested to know how other experienced fiddle teachers out there would handle the situation.
# Posted on March 8th 2010 by tradshark
Re: Left handed fiddle students
Maybe you ought to ask left-handed fiddlers rather than right-handed teachers!
Personally, as long as the l-h student has no intentions of ever playing in an orchestra, I would encourage him or her to go left-handed. I think having your dominant hand on the bow is vitally important.
# Posted on March 8th 2010 by Jeeves Tones
Re: Left handed fiddle students
Ah, this is a good topic. I am trying to learn fiddle, but honestly, as a long-time string player, this topic is by no means exclusive to fiddle, I'll warrant. I used to sell musical instruments, mainly guitars, and this was always a question when a lefty came in to look at guitars. You are right on the money in your assessment. This is by no means an absolute, and can be subjective.
Any potential student of any instrument, I believe, should be encouraged, and courteous manner, to consider learning the instrument right-handed. I find that most prospective musicians, regardless of the instrument, can handle this just fine if they've never touched and instrument. It's when a person has already "encoded" the handedness of an instrument that it becomes a bigger issue. Like I said, this is by no means absolute, as some people are just so left-hand dominant that they could only learn an instrument that way. Famed rock and roller Jimi Hendrix was one. He said once that left-handed was the only way he could conceive playing an instrument. His first guitar was a righ-handed instrument, which he had to alter to make it left-handed. But, in my opinion, he was unusual in that respect.
If someone feels discriminated against, there's not much you can do to predict that or do about it. They're probably inclined to feel discriminated against from the outset. Proper wording of the recommendation will usually prevent that however. I always used to say "you may want to consider learning right-handed if you think you can do that, as you'll find that you have more options when it comes to finding instruments. Would you say you are 'very' right-hand dominant?" Then the conversation would go from there.
It's all about what your brain is programmed to do. As a right-handed plectrum player, I find it is so ingrained that when I try to play piano I struggle, because with plectrum my rhythm is in my right hand, whereas in piano it's in the left hand, so I have problems. But the piano example is a good example about how the handedness of the potential musician doesn't have to determine how they play and instrument.
Whew. That was a lot.
# Posted on March 8th 2010 by Jimmy B
Re: Left handed fiddle students
I usually describe the tradeoffs between the two options and leave it up to the student.
I also tend to mention that I'm a lefty myself, and play fiddle, mandolin, guitar, banjo, flute, etc. with *both* hands. This gets a smile if not a chuckle, and helps people think about handedness in a different light.
In my experience, most lefties are so accustomed to living in a right-hand world (scissors, writing materials, door knobs) that we're more ambidextrous than the average righty. So it's not that big a deal. If a lefty really wanted to play lefty, I'd do my best to help them find a decent instrument and get them on their way.
# Posted on March 8th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: Left handed fiddle students
i agree with jimmy b, i use my plec in my right hand but when at school i have to play the piano i get really muddeled. when i learnt the fiddle i was in a small group of 7 and there was one l-h boy who was told to play on the fiddle provided in the r-h style insisted on playing in the l-h style on a r-h fiddle. it drove our teacher round the bend.
# Posted on March 8th 2010 by mandolinist
Re: Left handed fiddle students
Ah, Lonelyhearts, that sounds perfectly plausible. I have no doubt that lefties are more ambidextrous on the whole than use righties. We have everything handed to us...on a right-handed platter no less.
# Posted on March 8th 2010 by Jimmy B
Re: Left handed fiddle students
If a right-handed fiddler who's been around a bit wants to experience something of what it's like to be a raw beginner again, let him or her pick up the fiddle and play it left-handed.
# Posted on March 9th 2010 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Left handed fiddle students
I think anyone learning the violin and deciding they want a left handed instrument would be doing themselves a huge dis-service. Left handed fiddles are very thin on the ground - you won't get one at all on a student budget, and will be severely limiting your choice of instrument for the whole of your career.
I've always assumed that the only reason there are ANY left handed violins on the market is that makers occasionally goof up and stick the bass bar on the wrong side by mistake.
Playing right handed shouldn't be too much of a problem if you do it from the start. I know at least one professional orchestral left hander, and Paganini was alledgedly a leftie who played right handed, and he seemed to do alright.
An alternative might be to play a right handed instrument left handed, like Jimi Hendrix. I know one fiddler who does that. All you need then is someone to make you a left handed chinrest.
But I think if I had a student who couldn't or wouldn't play right handed, I'd suggest they learn the whistle instead.
# Posted on March 9th 2010 by skreech
Re: Left handed fiddle students
I'm a leftie but I play fiddle and woodwinds in the orthodox way.
It has been a hard struggle getting the bowing under control but
I have heard right handed players fumbling even worse than I do.
It's probably a disadvantage with something like tremolo or rapid
staccato bowing but how often does that come up in Trad
music? I've tried out these bowings and I know I could do them
well if I needed to.
The maximum speed is just a bit slower than it would be
with a rightie. On the other hand a leftie might have an
advantage with left hand ornamentation. I can do very fast rolls
and trills on left hand notes that I cannot match with
my right (on flute and whistle).
# Posted on March 9th 2010 by Hup
Re: Left handed fiddle students
Hi All, I' m new on thesession.org, been meaning to sign up for years and finally got around to it recently. I think this is a really interesting topic - my daughter is left-handed and was thinking of learning the fiddle when she was around 10 (shes 14 now), she eventually opted for the concertina but, at the time, I asked some of the lefty fiddle players I know for advice. One woman in particular, who I had known and played with for years before I found out that she was left-handed told me it didn't make much difference - she plays right-handed and is one of the most outstanding fiddle players I've ever heard. She originally learnt while in national school in Toonagh in Co Clare and didn't know any better at the time. However, if she had previously learnt to play, say, a mandolin or banjo left-handed, I imagine it would have been impossible. I've seen a few videos of the legendary American guitarist Elizabeth Cotten (check her out on youtube) who played a right-handed guitar left-haded upside down without switching the strings around - she developed her own style of playing ragtime-blues with the thumb playing the melody and her other fingers playing the bass end.
One final thing - have ye ever noticed how many flute players play left-handed? I'd safely bet that it's above the average percentage of lefties in the general population. I know at least 5 flute r-h players who play left-handed, the reason being that when they learnt to play the whistle as children they mirrored the teacher's hand positions on the whistle (presuming the teacher was r-h and played r-h) - I learnt the whistle in national school left-handed and I'm right-handed.
# Posted on March 9th 2010 by pmg
Re: Left handed fiddle students
And then there's Seamus Egan who plays flute righty and whistle lefty.....
# Posted on March 9th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: Left handed fiddle students
...and Ashley MacIsaac, who plays a right-handed fiddle left-handed. Oddly, I haven't seen anyone suggest that option
.
I know a handful of left-handed fiddlers and violinists - in my very small sample, those who started playing as children play right-handed, while those who picked up the instrument as adults play left-handed. I don't know if that holds in general. When I observed that one fiddler who played righty was a lefty, she commented that she didn't think much of it, and that as a lefty on fiddle, she found that her left hand developed fairly easily but the bowing was more of a challenge. But it seems that that's the case for everyone, regardless of handedness! (That said, I wonder if lefties playing righty tend to learn vibrato (and, as Hup mentions, rolls, sooner or more easily than righties.)
As an aside, I do wheel-thrown pottery, and was taught to throw with the wheel spinning counterclockwise; the left-handed students in my class were taught to spin the wheel clockwise. Most potters I know follow this convention, and it's the one I teach; though pottery, like fiddle, uses both hands, it uses them in different ways, and I myself can't throw clockwise. But some years ago I discovered that potters in many eastern countries, such in Japan, throw clockwise, regardless of handedness. They've obviously developed a different approach to the wheel, and I've since started to wonder if there's really anything intrinsic about the left-clockwise/right-counterclockwise technique that is in common use in the west. Likewise, I'm not entirely convinced that it's obvious that a fiddler's dominant hand should hold the bow.
# Posted on March 9th 2010 by Tall, Dark, and Mysterious
Re: Left handed fiddle students
Thanks for all the insights guys. I think they will definitely help me explain things to any prospective lefty fiddle students.
I myself am right handed, but I learned the tin whistle left handed. Now I couldn't even imagine playing a flute or whistle right handed. It would feel totally wrong. I thought the same principle might apply to the fiddle.
Thanks again for all the comments.
# Posted on March 9th 2010 by tradshark
Re: Left handed fiddle students
I'm another leftie, very dominantly left handed in most everything I do. exceptions are filed hockey because you cannot play left handed if everyone else is right and fiddling. To me it seems perfectly natural to have the left hand doing all that precise fingering. I know others say that the right hand on the bow does much more intricate work, but if you can't get the fingers in the right place all is lost. So I would encourage a lefty to oick up the fiddle first without the bow, and I reckon it would naturally tuck under the left side of the chin and be held with the left hand. Do that first and once they are comfortable give them the bow, they will have to use the right.
I honestly reckon all you right handers are doing it the difficult way! The first fiddler was a ham fisted, sinister, cack handed lefty
# Posted on March 9th 2010 by redh
Re: Left handed fiddle students
Just as a matter of interest, I heard that someone had made a left-handed piano, and got some left-handed professionals to try it out. Within an hour or so, their brains had made the switch, and they all said it was far better to play. What happened to them after was not mentioned, but I suppose there are some frustrated pianists out there now.
# Posted on March 9th 2010 by gam
Re: Left handed fiddle students
I am left handed, but play fiddle right handed, and have never had any problem with this. I think it's the things you do one handed that need to be done with your dominant hand, (writing, cleaning teeth, using a hammer, as a few examples), but the fiddle uses both hands.
I teach fiddle, some of my pupils are left handed, but have been happy to learn right handed, especially as I can point out that I am left handed myself!
A major disadvantage of playing left handed is that left handed fiddles are hard to find, especially in children's sizes.
# Posted on March 9th 2010 by cathycook
Re: Left handed fiddle students
I have thought about trying the fiddle, but my natural inclination would be to play left handed, and this has put me off.
I currently play the flute and whistle right-handed, which feels like the natural way for me to play. If I were to pick up a guitar (which I dont play), I'd also do it LH'd. Same with a rifle (which I rarely do!)
Its puzzled me for ages why one instrument feels natural LH'd and others RH'd. I write with my left hand, but would play all sports RH'd, if thats any sort of clue.
I had read something ages ago about left or right handedness being specific to part of your arm. For example, you could be left handed, but right armed (if that makes sense!). But it doesnt help me explain my handedness ....
Ian
# Posted on March 9th 2010 by iwilson
Re: Left handed fiddle students
It doesn't matter whether you're left or right-handed, bowing is always a difficult challenge on the violin.
As an aside, to help you on your way there's no substitute for the best teacher you can get hold of.
# Posted on March 9th 2010 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Left handed fiddle students
My daoughter is a south paw and she plays fiddle right handed, Never an issue at all.....
she started at 6 .
# Posted on March 9th 2010 by premierview
Re: Left handed fiddle students
Nicola Benedetti is left handed as am I so no excuses!
(I know she's not a fiddler but she's pretty hot on the fiddle!)
# Posted on June 30th 2010 by calsatch