Are there any consequences to regularly playing a fiddle with a mute? I naturally play loudly, so not to drive my wife crazy, I play with one of those rubber slide-down-the-strings-to-the-bridge mutes.
Don't they alter the tone of the fiddle a bit too much? I'm thinking of a couple of classical pieces I know that have muted fiddles, the slow movements of Mozart's Jupiter symphony and Beethoven's violin concerto, in which the orchestral violins are muted. "Muffled" comes to mind... I don't mind a good loud fiddle as long as it's a GOOD loud fiddle!
I would personally stay away from the mute. Practice using your bow pressure to soften your playing when necessary. You'll get a better feel for the tones of your fiddle, and your overall control of the bow can only improve.
I've never used a mute myself, so I can't really advise you as to long term consequences. But if it were me, I wouldn't bother with it at all.
Your bowing will become very lazy if you regularly practice with a mute, because the mute will cover up a multitude of sins. When you take it off you'll find yourself scraping away like a raw beginner.
I agree with tradshark and skreech. The purpose of the mute in an orchestral or other classical setting is to change the tone colour (and in so doing it reduces the dynamic as a side effect), and I cannot think of a reason in session playing or folk music for using one.
What can be useful though, when practising late night at home or in a hotel room where you can't afford to disturb family or neighbours, is a practice mute, a heavy clunky affair which reduces the volume to next to nothing. But it should only be used when absolutely necessary, for the reasons that tradshark and skreech mentioned above.
I've seen a few mutes of different sizes. The really tiny ones that fit over one string barely change the sound, and seem to just take the edge off. The slightly larger ones that fit over two strings make the sound "muffled" or "soft", and are trypically what I've seen people use for classical music.
There are big practice mutes that cover the entire top of the bridge. These dampen the sound a lot, and are what people use when they have to practice but can't make much noise.
The mute won't hurt your fiddle at all. Though I can imagine you might overplay with the mute on, then be playing even more loud than you should with the mute off.
I say take tradshark and skreech's advice. Learn how to play well without the mute and at any loudness. More bow control means a better fiddle player all around. Right?
It may be neat to try out a few slow airs with and without a mute.
As Lazyhound said, a mute can be a very useful tool. I live in an apartment building and when I get the urge to practice at 6am I use a heavy-duty brass mute that muffles the sound even more than the rubber mute described above. This type is specifically intended for playing when you don't want to disturb others rather than for the effect that some orchestral pieces call for - there is a difference.
While you can work on fingering and learning songs with a mute, the one thing you can't do is the thing that is so very important in fiddling, and that is, work on your tone, so one must be sure to allow plenty of playing time w/o the mute.
But yeah, for someone living in the city in an apartment building, a heavy-duty practice mute is invaluable. I'm sure my neighbors thank me very much.
PS -
I am re-reading the OP. The rubber, slide-down-the-strings type of mute is for the purpose of creating a specific orchestral sound, not so much for practicing quietly. In fact, that type of mute creates a sound that I would not recommend getting accustomed to because while it does make the fiddle somewhat quieter, it actually alters the tone.
If your purpose is to be quiet, I would recommend the heavy-duty brass type because it does not give you any tone at all, just a very muffled sound.
Hmm. I was considering a mute since I am just now trying to learn fiddle and wanted to spare my poor family as I slowly work out this horrible squawking I'm doing right now. Now I'm definately second-guessing it.
I'd much prefer the heavy rubber practice mute to the heavy-duty brass type for a number of reasons - if the brass one dislodges or is dropped on the fiddle it may cause damage, perhaps even a crack; likewise, it can damage the bridge through wearing away the wood in places, and may damage a string passing over the bridge if you're not careful in positioning it; and there's the question of how much extra weight is being applied to the body of the instrument by the brass mute through the bridge.
The clothes peg works - the forked type slid on the bridge sideways. In order to spare people in the next room, or house or street I now use a blob of blu-tack on the back of the bridge - you can use as little or as much as you need to dampen the volume.
I tried it for a week or so when I was living in close quarters with other folks, and found that I sounded particularly scratchy when I finally removed it.
Yes, there are consequences to playing regularly with a mute. It would be a little like learning a libretto to an Italian opera in German. Your tone is your voice, and tone is inextricably linked to your bowing. If you are unable to hear what your bow is doing to your sound because you've muffled your bridge how can you learn to modulate your attack, or articulation? How will you learn to add weight along the bow to get an even sound, where to go deep, where to let go etc, when the feedback you're responding to is inaccurate.
It will even effect your tuning because intonation is affected by tonal qualities. If you regularly hear a muffled, fuzzy sound, your ear can misinterpret that as the pitch being flat and you can find that you've inadvertently trained yourself to play a little sharp all the time.
It will affect how you approach phrasing because that is so affected by the attack from your bow.
There is nothing wrong with a mute per se, if you understand what it does. If you already understand how to play without one and would like to explore a different kind of sound then have fun with it on those terms.
it's only on the bridge - not on the fiddle. Haven't had any mishaps yet, which wouldn't be worse anyway than having my work colleague break the bloody thing over my head when he gets fed up with my lunchtime practice!
I have never played with someone who's been unable to speak. I can't imagine it would be an issue though, I say go for it. We all know of hearing impaired bodhran players and strummers, so why not a mute melody player? I see nothing wrong with this.
I had a Barcus Berry pick up once that stuck to the bridge with this special tacky stuff that came with it. After it ran out, I used to just use blue tack. After about a year of this, mid gig, the bridge snapped in two (what a noise, especially highly amplified and through a digital delay). Looking at it after, you could see where the gunk had soaked through the grain and weakened it. Nasty
Swiffle I've avoided saying that all day - in case it was in bad taste. But you've put it so nicely. Well done.
(I'd have probably phrased it more brutally - something like "I played with a mute. Never said nothin' " - and got voted off as a bad guy. I once made a serious comment on a website which discussed spiritual matters from a Christian viewpoint, and was denounced as being the most evil person this other poster had ever encountered, possibly even the Anti-Christ).
Anyhow - yhaalhouse has started up another thread entitled Woof Woof about people who don't speak in sessions - tek a look.
Swiv, don't listen to him! See:
showaddy @:
“With me not being English this is purely an academic question.
In view of Australia's immigration policy of only allowing people into Oz if they've got good qualifications, wouldn't it be true to say that "Pommie" is a compliment? After all, an Aussie only had to be born there, and could (hypothetically) be a relatively uninspiring individual (I thought of saying scum-of-the-earth, but I thought that might be considered provocative by the kind of person who doesn't know what hypothetical means), whereas a "Pommie" is now defined as someone with worthwhile skills and qualifications.
Look, I'm only asking right? . . . . . .”
(http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/23827/comments#comment496166)
Wrong!!
When you are back into civilized global mode, rather than pommie mode, then talk about Irish trad music. Meanwhile, listen and learn from an Aussie folk song, and wonder why you’re living in the wrong place. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0QajugMFho
What are you two on about now? What a row. Pommies, Aussies, Lions, Tigers and Bears. Oh my. In keeping with stereotypes I'll go sit on mah porch in mah bare feet and play mah fiddle. Y'all.
showy is a pommie in disguise, that's what's up. He'd rather be an Aussie too.
England welcomed me!? Oh right. Put in another immigration application, mate. Short of that, listen to some good Aussie folk music before you slag off, my friend: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0QajugMFho
If you want to practice at 6am or 2am and you live in an apartment building in the city, there is no choice but to use a mute.
Yes, it should be used sparingly in order to develop tone.
I've been using the heavy brass mute for years. It has never damaged the bridge or caused even as much as a mark.
Yes, as with everything in life, it does require awareness, in terms of being careful not to drop it onto the instrument which is as easy as thinking, while handling it - "I am now holding a heavy piece of brass in my hand that is hovering dangerously above a precious wood instrument."
The clothes pegs work quite well. The ordinary spring-type ones, one on each side just clear of the f-holes. Or if you prefer, those little plastic spring clamps that you get in hardware shops.
"Pommie has several potential sources -
1) As an acronym for Prisoner of Mother England..."
I take it that this statement is a declaration of Australian illiteracy then, as "pommie" has two ms whereas "Prisoner of Mother England" has just the one. Not to speak of the only letter i in "Prisoner of Mother England" being in entirely the wrong position to make a contribution to the acronym. If I'm feeling lenient I could be conceding that you mean "pom" and not "pommie," I suppose.
Oh, I dunno Steve, I don't think literacy is in question here. P.O.M.E. casually morphing into a term like Pommie isn't that much of a stretch. If I remember correctly, the Aussies love to add plural endings to a lot of stuff. I recall seeing several gaming houses in Sydney advertising "pokies" for video poker machines.
A fiddler friend of mine had a young family and needed to practice without disturbing them. So he bought a really cheap violin, and filled the cavity with that expanding polystyrene foam that you get a builder's merchants, so that it was acoustically dead. He then sprayed it a fetching metallic blue with an aerosol paint bought at a motor spares shop. I think that he also put a pick-up on it...
I bought a couple of mutes, the cat ate one, and I lost the other, I was looking for a way to quiet down my practice as well. I didn't care for them at all. A big part of this is to project pleasant and melodic sounds over a zooming guitar, a doodling concertina, a bouncing banjo, etc... you've got to sound really nice on top of all those well intentioned and often talented folks how can you accomplish that without practicing full volume. Getting some ear plugs, to protect myself and others, and investing in a padded room, are things I keep meaning to do. Oh well. My only consequence was money out the window, so far the cat seems ok.
Another advantage of filling the fiddle with expanding polystyrene foam is that it will stop the sound post from falling over when the bridge or strings are being changed.
And to make absolutely sure the fiddle plays as quietly as possible use that special bow rosin with the ptfe additive.
(Ahem!)
Playing with a mute
Playing with a mute
Are there any consequences to regularly playing a fiddle with a mute? I naturally play loudly, so not to drive my wife crazy, I play with one of those rubber slide-down-the-strings-to-the-bridge mutes.
Thanks
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by Kheelch
Re: Playing with a mute
Don't they alter the tone of the fiddle a bit too much? I'm thinking of a couple of classical pieces I know that have muted fiddles, the slow movements of Mozart's Jupiter symphony and Beethoven's violin concerto, in which the orchestral violins are muted. "Muffled" comes to mind... I don't mind a good loud fiddle as long as it's a GOOD loud fiddle!
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Playing with a mute
I would personally stay away from the mute. Practice using your bow pressure to soften your playing when necessary. You'll get a better feel for the tones of your fiddle, and your overall control of the bow can only improve.
I've never used a mute myself, so I can't really advise you as to long term consequences. But if it were me, I wouldn't bother with it at all.
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by tradshark
Re: Playing with a mute
Your bowing will become very lazy if you regularly practice with a mute, because the mute will cover up a multitude of sins. When you take it off you'll find yourself scraping away like a raw beginner.
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by skreech
Re: Playing with a mute
I agree with tradshark and skreech. The purpose of the mute in an orchestral or other classical setting is to change the tone colour (and in so doing it reduces the dynamic as a side effect), and I cannot think of a reason in session playing or folk music for using one.
What can be useful though, when practising late night at home or in a hotel room where you can't afford to disturb family or neighbours, is a practice mute, a heavy clunky affair which reduces the volume to next to nothing. But it should only be used when absolutely necessary, for the reasons that tradshark and skreech mentioned above.
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Playing with a mute
I've seen a few mutes of different sizes. The really tiny ones that fit over one string barely change the sound, and seem to just take the edge off. The slightly larger ones that fit over two strings make the sound "muffled" or "soft", and are trypically what I've seen people use for classical music.
There are big practice mutes that cover the entire top of the bridge. These dampen the sound a lot, and are what people use when they have to practice but can't make much noise.
The mute won't hurt your fiddle at all. Though I can imagine you might overplay with the mute on, then be playing even more loud than you should with the mute off.
I say take tradshark and skreech's advice. Learn how to play well without the mute and at any loudness. More bow control means a better fiddle player all around. Right?
It may be neat to try out a few slow airs with and without a mute.
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by banshee misfortune
Re: Playing with a mute
As Lazyhound said, a mute can be a very useful tool. I live in an apartment building and when I get the urge to practice at 6am I use a heavy-duty brass mute that muffles the sound even more than the rubber mute described above. This type is specifically intended for playing when you don't want to disturb others rather than for the effect that some orchestral pieces call for - there is a difference.
While you can work on fingering and learning songs with a mute, the one thing you can't do is the thing that is so very important in fiddling, and that is, work on your tone, so one must be sure to allow plenty of playing time w/o the mute.
But yeah, for someone living in the city in an apartment building, a heavy-duty practice mute is invaluable. I'm sure my neighbors thank me very much.
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by sara505sings
Re: Playing with a mute
PS -
I am re-reading the OP. The rubber, slide-down-the-strings type of mute is for the purpose of creating a specific orchestral sound, not so much for practicing quietly. In fact, that type of mute creates a sound that I would not recommend getting accustomed to because while it does make the fiddle somewhat quieter, it actually alters the tone.
If your purpose is to be quiet, I would recommend the heavy-duty brass type because it does not give you any tone at all, just a very muffled sound.
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by sara505sings
Re: Playing with a mute
I find that for my intonation gets sloppy when using a practice mute.
Mary
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by Antikhntr
Re: Playing with a mute
Hmm. I was considering a mute since I am just now trying to learn fiddle and wanted to spare my poor family as I slowly work out this horrible squawking I'm doing right now. Now I'm definately second-guessing it.
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by Jimmy B
Re: Playing with a mute
I'd much prefer the heavy rubber practice mute to the heavy-duty brass type for a number of reasons - if the brass one dislodges or is dropped on the fiddle it may cause damage, perhaps even a crack; likewise, it can damage the bridge through wearing away the wood in places, and may damage a string passing over the bridge if you're not careful in positioning it; and there's the question of how much extra weight is being applied to the body of the instrument by the brass mute through the bridge.
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Playing with a mute
a very effective mute, even if i dont use it, is to clip a clothes peg on the bridge
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by fiddlemax
Re: Playing with a mute
The clothes peg works - the forked type slid on the bridge sideways. In order to spare people in the next room, or house or street I now use a blob of blu-tack on the back of the bridge - you can use as little or as much as you need to dampen the volume.
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by RichardB
Re: Playing with a mute
Practicing with a mute hurts your tone quality.
I tried it for a week or so when I was living in close quarters with other folks, and found that I sounded particularly scratchy when I finally removed it.
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by Georgi
Re: Playing with a mute
Yes, there are consequences to playing regularly with a mute. It would be a little like learning a libretto to an Italian opera in German. Your tone is your voice, and tone is inextricably linked to your bowing. If you are unable to hear what your bow is doing to your sound because you've muffled your bridge how can you learn to modulate your attack, or articulation? How will you learn to add weight along the bow to get an even sound, where to go deep, where to let go etc, when the feedback you're responding to is inaccurate.
It will even effect your tuning because intonation is affected by tonal qualities. If you regularly hear a muffled, fuzzy sound, your ear can misinterpret that as the pitch being flat and you can find that you've inadvertently trained yourself to play a little sharp all the time.
It will affect how you approach phrasing because that is so affected by the attack from your bow.
There is nothing wrong with a mute per se, if you understand what it does. If you already understand how to play without one and would like to explore a different kind of sound then have fun with it on those terms.
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by Twisty
Re: Playing with a mute
don't stick blue tack anywhere near your fiddle. It's got some nasty chemicals in it that melt stuff
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by ...
Re: Playing with a mute
it's only on the bridge - not on the fiddle. Haven't had any mishaps yet, which wouldn't be worse anyway than having my work colleague break the bloody thing over my head when he gets fed up with my lunchtime practice!
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by RichardB
Re: Playing with a mute
I have never played with someone who's been unable to speak. I can't imagine it would be an issue though, I say go for it. We all know of hearing impaired bodhran players and strummers, so why not a mute melody player? I see nothing wrong with this.
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Playing with a mute
I had a Barcus Berry pick up once that stuck to the bridge with this special tacky stuff that came with it. After it ran out, I used to just use blue tack. After about a year of this, mid gig, the bridge snapped in two (what a noise, especially highly amplified and through a digital delay). Looking at it after, you could see where the gunk had soaked through the grain and weakened it. Nasty
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by ...
Re: Playing with a mute
Swiffle I've avoided saying that all day - in case it was in bad taste. But you've put it so nicely. Well done.
(I'd have probably phrased it more brutally - something like "I played with a mute. Never said nothin' " - and got voted off as a bad guy. I once made a serious comment on a website which discussed spiritual matters from a Christian viewpoint, and was denounced as being the most evil person this other poster had ever encountered, possibly even the Anti-Christ).
Anyhow - yhaalhouse has started up another thread entitled Woof Woof about people who don't speak in sessions - tek a look.
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by showaddydadito
Re: Playing with a mute
Swiv, don't listen to him! See:
showaddy @:
“With me not being English this is purely an academic question.
In view of Australia's immigration policy of only allowing people into Oz if they've got good qualifications, wouldn't it be true to say that "Pommie" is a compliment? After all, an Aussie only had to be born there, and could (hypothetically) be a relatively uninspiring individual (I thought of saying scum-of-the-earth, but I thought that might be considered provocative by the kind of person who doesn't know what hypothetical means), whereas a "Pommie" is now defined as someone with worthwhile skills and qualifications.
Look, I'm only asking right? . . . . . .”
(http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/23827/comments#comment496166)
Wrong!!
When you are back into civilized global mode, rather than pommie mode, then talk about Irish trad music. Meanwhile, listen and learn from an Aussie folk song, and wonder why you’re living in the wrong place.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0QajugMFho
amp it up, Dck.
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Playing with a mute
Not sure I'm living in the wrong place.
After my country was invaded and most of my people raped or butchered, England welcomed me.
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by showaddydadito
Re: Playing with a mute
What are you two on about now? What a row. Pommies, Aussies, Lions, Tigers and Bears. Oh my. In keeping with stereotypes I'll go sit on mah porch in mah bare feet and play mah fiddle. Y'all.
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Playing with a mute
showy is a pommie in disguise, that's what's up. He'd rather be an Aussie too.
England welcomed me!? Oh right. Put in another immigration application, mate. Short of that, listen to some good Aussie folk music before you slag off, my friend:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0QajugMFho
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Playing with a mute
So, showy, the guy singing that was a pommie too, so there is hope for you yet.
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Playing with a mute
stay with me swiv.
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Playing with a mute
If you want to practice at 6am or 2am and you live in an apartment building in the city, there is no choice but to use a mute.
Yes, it should be used sparingly in order to develop tone.
I've been using the heavy brass mute for years. It has never damaged the bridge or caused even as much as a mark.
Yes, as with everything in life, it does require awareness, in terms of being careful not to drop it onto the instrument which is as easy as thinking, while handling it - "I am now holding a heavy piece of brass in my hand that is hovering dangerously above a precious wood instrument."
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by sara505sings
Re: Playing with a mute
There's way too many poms on this site, thank god you are not one of them sarasings.
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Playing with a mute
pom?
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by sara505sings
Re: Playing with a mute
If no mute = no mates, the choice is clear
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by Markplucker
Re: Playing with a mute
oh, it seems pom is some kind of nasty derogatory term, some would even define it as racist.
all for a comment about a mute?
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by sara505sings
Re: Playing with a mute
I personally like my fiddles and my Australians loud. Otherwise I cannot hear them over the din of my jingoistic American banjo in my session.
Since we're on the subject of Australian word origins, Pommie has several potential sources -
1) As an acronym for Prisoner of Mother England
2) Short for "Pomegranate" due to the fair & ruddy complexions of English immigrants
3) Short for Pomade, the stylish hair gel used by English Officers as they commanded Australian troops during WWI
# Posted on March 4th 2010 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Playing with a mute
The clothes pegs work quite well. The ordinary spring-type ones, one on each side just clear of the f-holes. Or if you prefer, those little plastic spring clamps that you get in hardware shops.
# Posted on March 5th 2010 by gam
Re: Playing with a mute
"Pommie has several potential sources -
1) As an acronym for Prisoner of Mother England..."
I take it that this statement is a declaration of Australian illiteracy then, as "pommie" has two ms whereas "Prisoner of Mother England" has just the one. Not to speak of the only letter i in "Prisoner of Mother England" being in entirely the wrong position to make a contribution to the acronym. If I'm feeling lenient I could be conceding that you mean "pom" and not "pommie," I suppose.
# Posted on March 5th 2010 by Steve Shaw
Re: Playing with a mute
Oh, I dunno Steve, I don't think literacy is in question here. P.O.M.E. casually morphing into a term like Pommie isn't that much of a stretch. If I remember correctly, the Aussies love to add plural endings to a lot of stuff. I recall seeing several gaming houses in Sydney advertising "pokies" for video poker machines.
# Posted on March 5th 2010 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Playing with a mute
A fiddler friend of mine had a young family and needed to practice without disturbing them. So he bought a really cheap violin, and filled the cavity with that expanding polystyrene foam that you get a builder's merchants, so that it was acoustically dead. He then sprayed it a fetching metallic blue with an aerosol paint bought at a motor spares shop. I think that he also put a pick-up on it...
# Posted on March 5th 2010 by rbs
Re: Playing with a mute
Be careful with that foam -- it can lift the roof off a building, as my poor, cold friend has learned. (tee-hee)
# Posted on March 5th 2010 by gam
Re: Playing with a mute
I bought a couple of mutes, the cat ate one, and I lost the other, I was looking for a way to quiet down my practice as well. I didn't care for them at all. A big part of this is to project pleasant and melodic sounds over a zooming guitar, a doodling concertina, a bouncing banjo, etc... you've got to sound really nice on top of all those well intentioned and often talented folks how can you accomplish that without practicing full volume. Getting some ear plugs, to protect myself and others, and investing in a padded room, are things I keep meaning to do. Oh well. My only consequence was money out the window, so far the cat seems ok.
# Posted on March 5th 2010 by SandyBottoms
Re: Playing with a mute
Another advantage of filling the fiddle with expanding polystyrene foam is that it will stop the sound post from falling over when the bridge or strings are being changed.
And to make absolutely sure the fiddle plays as quietly as possible use that special bow rosin with the ptfe additive.
(Ahem!)
# Posted on March 5th 2010 by Trevor Jennings