Ok, ill except all the beatings I'm sure to get for the stupid question....lay em on me,no harm...lol,
So here it iz, I have half a dozen assorted "student" bows. I just bought a decent bow, for $275 ( my fiddle is a $1000 german bench )....In the fiddle world, that amounts to me being broke...but hey
So heres my question, my new bow has a great tone, its quick to respond,but it seems my older wood bow has a better tone for airs and waltzs. When I switch back and forth ,theres a readjustment i have to go through.
would I be better off playing every thing with the better bow, or do some of you find that some bows work better for certain tunes,
.
Im still a noob,14 months, so after hittin' me up side the head,advice would be appreciated
My opinion is that you should stick with one. The operator has
a much bigger effect than the bow especially at this early stage.
Tone is less important than responsiveness too. Also some
would say that a decent bow costs about $4,000.
As you play over the years ahead, you'll likely come to realize that the bow *is* the instrument, and the fiddle is just the sound box.
It's okay to switch bows for different uses--lots fiddlers own a number of bows to use for different types of music and to meet various musical demands.
But it also helps to learn how to get the most out of one good bow, no matter what you need it to do.
I would make a comparison with snooker, or pool, where a decent player will always carry his own cue. If you are relying on an extension of your body, the important thing is that you know that extension intimately. As long as it does the job it is meant to, and is not obviously useless, familiarity is more important than peculiarity.
I have what some experienced players say is a very good wood bow. However, I feel like I'm fighting it when I use it.
I've was told it needed to be "re-aligned" and had that done
twice by very experienced bow makers. It still feels the same to me.
I then purchased a Coda Bow Classic and from the minute I started using it I noticed I was concentrating on the music and tone rather then the "feel" of the bow. I get much more out of my fiddle with it. Even my teacher commented how much my tone improved. Perhaps you should try one. I love mine.
Even if you don't have the money for one now if you find that you like then you can start saving with that goal in mind.
I know some people don't like composite bows but I feel like I can't buy a wooden bow of the same quality for any where near the Coda Bow price.
last year i purchased a coda bow prodigy - it cost about $275.00 - this was after weeks of borrowing different bows from ifshin - i noticed a little leap to the next plateau of bowing soon after - i chose the prodigy over several more expensive coda bows or wood bows - i recommend it highly...
I haven't been playing all that long myself - 5 years.
I tried out a bunch of $US1000 Brazilian bows and some
Codabows when I was visiting the USA last May. While they
were better than my $60 Chinese cf bow, they were not hugely
better and they didn't help me play tunes any better. So for
myself I've decided to hold off upgrading either bow or fiddle for a
while longer. I liked the sound of the Brazilian pernambuco
bows better; they and the codabow all seemed responsive
enough but nothing knocked my socks off.
I bought one of the original Coda bows 10 or 12 years ago, and it still plays and feels terrific. I've got a fine wooden bow -- value around $3K -- but I use the Coda when I play in pubs or other risky environments...
When checking out Coda bows, go to a violin shop or music store that carries a selection of them. The Coda bows come in different weights, varying by 15-20 grams per bow from the lightest to the heaviest. You could try out the various selections by which weight feels best for your own playing. I have a Coda, and use it all the time. The only time I pull out my pernambuco spare bow is when my Coda is being re-haired.
I spent some $$$$ on a good CF bow but really I prefer this $25 Glasser a friend loaned me. It weighs a ton and thus plays the strings all by itself. I never change strings or care much about tone so my case is a bit exceptional maybe. How the thing plays is all I'm interested in.
I'd like to try some 3/4 or 1/2 bows, too, since I like to keep the thumb under the frog but the balance seems better gripping the bow up the stick a bit.
For the music we play here, we use a good foot of the bow, and we don't do any of the off-the-string stuff the classical players do, AND it's not necessary to generate huge amounts of tone. Frankly, what does it matter what you play on?
Just to get this out of the way, been playing almost thirty years, multi-instrumentalist, music teacher here, blah blah blah. Here's a recording of me playing on a $50 glasser bow:
Your playing sounds fine, but yes, the tone you get from that bow is on the thin side to my ear. If that's okay by you, it's okay by me.
FWIW, I use pernambuco bows from the Water Violet team of makers in Brazil. My main bow cost about $235 USD. I sold off the $1,500 bow I inherited.
I've also played some Presto carbon-fiber bows that were well balanced, responsive, and consistent from one to the next--they cost $90 USD. Good tone from them. I prefer the feel of wood.
I may use only 4 inches of bow to play the dance tunes, but I typically use the whole bow on airs, to accompany songs, and on the occasional waltz, so I like a decent bow.
P.S. Fiddlerdan, I'm guessing you meant varying by "1.5 to 2 grams" on Coda bow weights? The whole bow weighs only 60 grams or so.
Coda bows vary in weight and balance because the ebony in the frog varies in density. Although it's a small difference, it does noticeably affect balance.
No, I enjoyed your clips very much--great playing. And I agree that tone is secondary to nyah and pulse. But I guess to me something less than $300 USD for a bow that sounds and plays terrific and will last a lifetime--that isn't a bad value. I've never played a Glasser that I liked. Horses for courses.
Ah, thanks for the good words. Yeah, it's never a bad decision, getting a good bow. They always hold their value, especially (and unfortunately) the pernambucos.
If you go to a music shop to try out a number of cf fiddle bows (trying out alternatives is always a good policy, as fiddlerdan pointed out), try a cf viola bow as well. They can be very effective for folk music.
A further point - a good dealer would normally allow a prospective buyer to take two or three bows away for a few days to try out at home. A few minutes trying each in a shop isn't really ideal when you're considering a purchase of something priced in the hundreds.
Another thing is to ask the dealer to remove the price tags so that you're testing the bows "blind" and not being influenced by the apparent value - you could be surprised at the result at the end of the day. Obviously, you'd specify a top price if you do this.
Miss Lonelyhearts--
I stand corrected! LOL. Must be an AMI thing. Over here we just use English weights and measures, and that dang fool metric stuff, well...I still have trouble wrapping my mind around liters, centimeters, kilos, etc. Must be my cultural biases...
Seriously though, I thought the weights were 165, 175, 185, 195, 205, etc grams. I've had my Coda bow for over 15 years, so maybe I misunderstood the original weight of the bow to begin with...
Lazyhound...
re: your last post--
Shar Violins (http://www.sharmusic.com/) used to have a policy for testing out prospective violin bows: They run your credit, and upon approval, you could have a selection of bows sent UPS to your house to try out, and all you paid was the UPS shipping to your home. You tried 'em out and paid to ship the rest back to Shar. I don't know if they still have this policy, but it worked great if you lived in the far flung hollers of the US that didn't have a decent violin shop or selection of bows to choose from nearby.
A little anecdote heard 3rd hand, don't ya know...
for sure might be apocryphal....
A string quartet was hired to play a wedding for an outdoor reception at a wedding. They were setting up to play on a grassy knoll which was slightly damp as it had rained the previous evening. The violin or viola player (I'm not sure which) lost her balance as she went to sit on the folding chair. With instrument in one hand, Coda bow in the other, without thinking she used her bow as one might use a walking stick: thrust her bow down into the soggy soil to stabilize her balance. The bow bent nearly in two but did not break. Aside from a muddy tip which was easily cleaned off, the bow sprung back to its original shape the none the worse for wear. I swear this story is true...as told to me back in the days when I used to play cello....
I saw a Coda Classic survive being shut in a car door, just he bow, no protection. It was fine.
Full size violin bows typically weigh between 58 and 62 grams, with most in the 59 to 61.5 range. I once owned a bow that weighed just over 56 grams--it was okay for playing alone at home, but not for playing in groups.
Price doesn't matter Barry i find my wooden bow is always better, because it's a good bow. You like the tone on your wood bow because it's wood, I can tell you that, but if its soggy or imbalanced, you don't like it on your fast tunes, that is how it goes sometimes. , my wood bow is always better than my Coda classic no matter what tune I am playing, but I like the Coda because its tougher than nails, and I don't care about it getting passed around or hitting the floor etc. You might benefit from investing when you are ready in a better wooden bow, I get the feeling that would make you very happy someday. Your bow should be 50% of your instrument investment if you can swing it.
PS I have a 1,000 dollar german bench fiddle and its the best thing ever, it rocks the house, its open loud and rich sounding, when I found a good wooden bow, it became even better. You deserve a fine bow.
fiddle bow question
fiddle bow question
Ok, ill except all the beatings I'm sure to get for the stupid question....lay em on me,no harm...lol,
So here it iz, I have half a dozen assorted "student" bows. I just bought a decent bow, for $275 ( my fiddle is a $1000 german bench )....In the fiddle world, that amounts to me being broke...but hey
So heres my question, my new bow has a great tone, its quick to respond,but it seems my older wood bow has a better tone for airs and waltzs. When I switch back and forth ,theres a readjustment i have to go through.
would I be better off playing every thing with the better bow, or do some of you find that some bows work better for certain tunes,
.
Im still a noob,14 months, so after hittin' me up side the head,advice would be appreciated
Barry
# Posted on February 7th 2010 by Barry1963
Re: fiddle bow question
My opinion is that you should stick with one. The operator has
a much bigger effect than the bow especially at this early stage.
Tone is less important than responsiveness too. Also some
would say that a decent bow costs about $4,000.
# Posted on February 7th 2010 by Hup
Re: fiddle bow question
As you play over the years ahead, you'll likely come to realize that the bow *is* the instrument, and the fiddle is just the sound box.
It's okay to switch bows for different uses--lots fiddlers own a number of bows to use for different types of music and to meet various musical demands.
But it also helps to learn how to get the most out of one good bow, no matter what you need it to do.
# Posted on February 7th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: fiddle bow question
I would make a comparison with snooker, or pool, where a decent player will always carry his own cue. If you are relying on an extension of your body, the important thing is that you know that extension intimately. As long as it does the job it is meant to, and is not obviously useless, familiarity is more important than peculiarity.
# Posted on February 7th 2010 by gam
Re: fiddle bow question
I have what some experienced players say is a very good wood bow. However, I feel like I'm fighting it when I use it.
I've was told it needed to be "re-aligned" and had that done
twice by very experienced bow makers. It still feels the same to me.
I then purchased a Coda Bow Classic and from the minute I started using it I noticed I was concentrating on the music and tone rather then the "feel" of the bow. I get much more out of my fiddle with it. Even my teacher commented how much my tone improved. Perhaps you should try one. I love mine.
Even if you don't have the money for one now if you find that you like then you can start saving with that goal in mind.
I know some people don't like composite bows but I feel like I can't buy a wooden bow of the same quality for any where near the Coda Bow price.
Best of luck
Mary
# Posted on February 7th 2010 by Antikhntr
Re: fiddle bow question
re: fiddle bow question
last year i purchased a coda bow prodigy - it cost about $275.00 - this was after weeks of borrowing different bows from ifshin - i noticed a little leap to the next plateau of bowing soon after - i chose the prodigy over several more expensive coda bows or wood bows - i recommend it highly...
good bowing to you!!!
# Posted on February 7th 2010 by mctree
Re: fiddle bow question
thanks for all the responses , I'll have to go to the violin shop and try out a Coda. Ive heard a lot of people online talk about them.
Thanks everyone
# Posted on February 8th 2010 by Barry1963
Re: fiddle bow question
I haven't been playing all that long myself - 5 years.
I tried out a bunch of $US1000 Brazilian bows and some
Codabows when I was visiting the USA last May. While they
were better than my $60 Chinese cf bow, they were not hugely
better and they didn't help me play tunes any better. So for
myself I've decided to hold off upgrading either bow or fiddle for a
while longer. I liked the sound of the Brazilian pernambuco
bows better; they and the codabow all seemed responsive
enough but nothing knocked my socks off.
# Posted on February 8th 2010 by Hup
Re: fiddle bow question
I bought one of the original Coda bows 10 or 12 years ago, and it still plays and feels terrific. I've got a fine wooden bow -- value around $3K -- but I use the Coda when I play in pubs or other risky environments...
# Posted on February 8th 2010 by Jmbu
Re: fiddle bow question
When checking out Coda bows, go to a violin shop or music store that carries a selection of them. The Coda bows come in different weights, varying by 15-20 grams per bow from the lightest to the heaviest. You could try out the various selections by which weight feels best for your own playing. I have a Coda, and use it all the time. The only time I pull out my pernambuco spare bow is when my Coda is being re-haired.
# Posted on February 9th 2010 by fiddlerdan
Re: fiddle bow question
I spent some $$$$ on a good CF bow but really I prefer this $25 Glasser a friend loaned me. It weighs a ton and thus plays the strings all by itself. I never change strings or care much about tone so my case is a bit exceptional maybe. How the thing plays is all I'm interested in.
I'd like to try some 3/4 or 1/2 bows, too, since I like to keep the thumb under the frog but the balance seems better gripping the bow up the stick a bit.
# Posted on February 9th 2010 by KLR
Re: fiddle bow question
See, I don't get this.
For the music we play here, we use a good foot of the bow, and we don't do any of the off-the-string stuff the classical players do, AND it's not necessary to generate huge amounts of tone. Frankly, what does it matter what you play on?
Just to get this out of the way, been playing almost thirty years, multi-instrumentalist, music teacher here, blah blah blah. Here's a recording of me playing on a $50 glasser bow:
http://www.cdbaby.com/ogham
If you don't like the playing, maybe a more expensive bow is the solution.
# Posted on February 9th 2010 by reenactor
Re: fiddle bow question
Your playing sounds fine, but yes, the tone you get from that bow is on the thin side to my ear. If that's okay by you, it's okay by me.
FWIW, I use pernambuco bows from the Water Violet team of makers in Brazil. My main bow cost about $235 USD. I sold off the $1,500 bow I inherited.
I've also played some Presto carbon-fiber bows that were well balanced, responsive, and consistent from one to the next--they cost $90 USD. Good tone from them. I prefer the feel of wood.
I may use only 4 inches of bow to play the dance tunes, but I typically use the whole bow on airs, to accompany songs, and on the occasional waltz, so I like a decent bow.
# Posted on February 9th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: fiddle bow question
P.S. Fiddlerdan, I'm guessing you meant varying by "1.5 to 2 grams" on Coda bow weights? The whole bow weighs only 60 grams or so.
Coda bows vary in weight and balance because the ebony in the frog varies in density. Although it's a small difference, it does noticeably affect balance.
# Posted on February 9th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: fiddle bow question
Will,
Ha! Just turn it up louder. Must be those damn expensive microphones making it sound thin. There's a couple airs on there, too.
Anyone wanna buy a Coda Classic bow? Got one I haven't used in a while.
# Posted on February 9th 2010 by reenactor
Re: fiddle bow question
LOL, that's probably it.
No, I enjoyed your clips very much--great playing. And I agree that tone is secondary to nyah and pulse. But I guess to me something less than $300 USD for a bow that sounds and plays terrific and will last a lifetime--that isn't a bad value. I've never played a Glasser that I liked. Horses for courses.
# Posted on February 9th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: fiddle bow question
Ah, thanks for the good words. Yeah, it's never a bad decision, getting a good bow. They always hold their value, especially (and unfortunately) the pernambucos.
# Posted on February 9th 2010 by reenactor
Re: fiddle bow question
If you go to a music shop to try out a number of cf fiddle bows (trying out alternatives is always a good policy, as fiddlerdan pointed out), try a cf viola bow as well. They can be very effective for folk music.
A further point - a good dealer would normally allow a prospective buyer to take two or three bows away for a few days to try out at home. A few minutes trying each in a shop isn't really ideal when you're considering a purchase of something priced in the hundreds.
Another thing is to ask the dealer to remove the price tags so that you're testing the bows "blind" and not being influenced by the apparent value - you could be surprised at the result at the end of the day. Obviously, you'd specify a top price if you do this.
# Posted on February 9th 2010 by Trevor Jennings
Re: fiddle bow question
Miss Lonelyhearts--
I stand corrected! LOL. Must be an AMI thing. Over here we just use English weights and measures, and that dang fool metric stuff, well...I still have trouble wrapping my mind around liters, centimeters, kilos, etc. Must be my cultural biases...
Seriously though, I thought the weights were 165, 175, 185, 195, 205, etc grams. I've had my Coda bow for over 15 years, so maybe I misunderstood the original weight of the bow to begin with...
Lazyhound...
re: your last post--
Shar Violins (http://www.sharmusic.com/) used to have a policy for testing out prospective violin bows: They run your credit, and upon approval, you could have a selection of bows sent UPS to your house to try out, and all you paid was the UPS shipping to your home. You tried 'em out and paid to ship the rest back to Shar. I don't know if they still have this policy, but it worked great if you lived in the far flung hollers of the US that didn't have a decent violin shop or selection of bows to choose from nearby.
# Posted on February 12th 2010 by fiddlerdan
Re: fiddle bow question
I just bought a Coda - OMG! Fantastic! It's quick, and alive, and sounds great, too.
# Posted on February 12th 2010 by sara505sings
Re: fiddle bow question
A little anecdote heard 3rd hand, don't ya know...
for sure might be apocryphal....
A string quartet was hired to play a wedding for an outdoor reception at a wedding. They were setting up to play on a grassy knoll which was slightly damp as it had rained the previous evening. The violin or viola player (I'm not sure which) lost her balance as she went to sit on the folding chair. With instrument in one hand, Coda bow in the other, without thinking she used her bow as one might use a walking stick: thrust her bow down into the soggy soil to stabilize her balance. The bow bent nearly in two but did not break. Aside from a muddy tip which was easily cleaned off, the bow sprung back to its original shape the none the worse for wear. I swear this story is true...as told to me back in the days when I used to play cello....
# Posted on February 13th 2010 by fiddlerdan
Re: fiddle bow question
I saw a Coda Classic survive being shut in a car door, just he bow, no protection. It was fine.
Full size violin bows typically weigh between 58 and 62 grams, with most in the 59 to 61.5 range. I once owned a bow that weighed just over 56 grams--it was okay for playing alone at home, but not for playing in groups.
# Posted on February 13th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: fiddle bow question
(but the car door caught the "t" in the....)
# Posted on February 13th 2010 by Will Harmon
Re: fiddle bow question
Price doesn't matter Barry i find my wooden bow is always better, because it's a good bow. You like the tone on your wood bow because it's wood, I can tell you that, but if its soggy or imbalanced, you don't like it on your fast tunes, that is how it goes sometimes. , my wood bow is always better than my Coda classic no matter what tune I am playing, but I like the Coda because its tougher than nails, and I don't care about it getting passed around or hitting the floor etc. You might benefit from investing when you are ready in a better wooden bow, I get the feeling that would make you very happy someday. Your bow should be 50% of your instrument investment if you can swing it.
# Posted on February 14th 2010 by SandyBottoms
Re: fiddle bow question
PS I have a 1,000 dollar german bench fiddle and its the best thing ever, it rocks the house, its open loud and rich sounding, when I found a good wooden bow, it became even better. You deserve a fine bow.
# Posted on February 14th 2010 by SandyBottoms