I've got a girl at school (high school) wanting to play Irish tunes on a silver flute. She's technically quite good, but I don't play myself. Any ideas what might work well for her and enable her to start adding ornaments easily?
You can do all the same stuff on a Boehm flute, except slides.
Even with an open-holed one, slides don't work that well. Because
of the keys flapping on the six main holes you don't get that
popping quality that a simple flute gives you. (Anything in D -
reels or hornpipes gives you lots of chances to flap those keys)
The ornaments are no good on their own, they need to be placed correctly, and that requires an understanding of the rhythms of the music, as well as technical proficiency. If your daughter wants to make Irish music when she plays Irish tunes then she'll need to listen to the tunes being played by good Irish musicians, and to be taught by a good Irish musician if possible. It's quite a different approach to that of the classical tradition, one thing being that Irish music doesn't translate easily into written sheet music. The only way to play it well is to know what it sounds like.
Grey Larsen's book has a section in there of how to do ornaments on a silver flute. I think it's from an interview with the woman from Cherish the Ladies. What's her name? Anyway, she's really good.
Ditch the vibrato. I went to a pub once and they had an Irish band that had a classical flutist and while she was very good, she really made them sound not Irish at all with all her vibrato. I never went back to hear them again.
Theres a MelBay tutorial book for Irish music on the silver flute. I think it is called "The irish flute book" or something like that and it is specifically for those wanting to play this music on the sliver flute. They address how to do the ornaments in quite a lot of detail, but you will still need to listen to lots of this music to understand how it works and to know where and why to use the ornaments and how they are actually meant to sound.
And yes, don't do vibrato in the classical way. It is inappropriate (it is also inappropriate for most baroque music, but that doesn't stop a lot of people doing it!).
Oh, and to avoid confusion dsmootz, I presume you don't mean that Joanie Madden was the woman with the vibrato...
This is a fantastic resource: http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/brosteve/
The techniques for cuts, rolls, and taps on the silver flute are largely the same as on whistle; just a few notes (notably F#) need a workaround. (The trill keys are also nice for some chirpy cuts.)
The main effect of the MelBay book on me was to make me go out and buy a wooden flute and use that instead for the Irish music - I never actually tried to stick with this type of ornamentation on the Boehm flute. Now I play both, but keep them for their appropriate music.
I've tried it on Boehm flute and it is very unsatisfying. However
mine goes down to low B and it's good for weird keys. I never
use any more though for Trad.
Mine goes to low B too and I wouldn't use anything else for e.g. popcorn behaviour in the key that fiddlers like to play it in. (Not actually true - a whistle in the appropriate key works too...)
However, usually I don't even have the boehm with me when I go to sessions so I would just sit out the most awkwardly keyed tunes.
I use a boehm flute because I can't get the reach on the wooden one - I agree with just listening and finding what things sound like. I would advise that she learns the tunes in their simple forms at first - rhythm and flow is much more important early on. I find some ornaments really difficult still but I would say the best advice I could give her is to listen to yourself and others and persevere.
Thanks all. She's not my daughter - I'm the music teacher and would like to think I'm pretty good at Irish music myself. The question was more one for suggestions - I know the tunes and the ornaments, but understand that on most instruments there are tunes where the ornaments sit really comfortably and others where they don't sound right without them, but can be a bugger to play. I've taught her the Eavesdropper and where and what ornaments to play. She'll get there...
Thanks again for your help and advice - I'll definitely look up the Grey Larsen book.
Easy tunes to ornament on a silver flute?
Easy tunes to ornament on a silver flute?
I've got a girl at school (high school) wanting to play Irish tunes on a silver flute. She's technically quite good, but I don't play myself. Any ideas what might work well for her and enable her to start adding ornaments easily?
# Posted on January 28th 2010 by farmerboy
Re: Easy tunes to ornament on a silver flute?
You can do all the same stuff on a Boehm flute, except slides.
Even with an open-holed one, slides don't work that well. Because
of the keys flapping on the six main holes you don't get that
popping quality that a simple flute gives you. (Anything in D -
reels or hornpipes gives you lots of chances to flap those keys)
# Posted on January 28th 2010 by Hup
Re: Easy tunes to ornament on a silver flute?
The ornaments are no good on their own, they need to be placed correctly, and that requires an understanding of the rhythms of the music, as well as technical proficiency. If your daughter wants to make Irish music when she plays Irish tunes then she'll need to listen to the tunes being played by good Irish musicians, and to be taught by a good Irish musician if possible. It's quite a different approach to that of the classical tradition, one thing being that Irish music doesn't translate easily into written sheet music. The only way to play it well is to know what it sounds like.
# Posted on January 28th 2010 by Dragut Reis
Re: Easy tunes to ornament on a silver flute?
Amen.
# Posted on January 28th 2010 by Hup
Re: Easy tunes to ornament on a silver flute?
Grey Larsen's book has a section in there of how to do ornaments on a silver flute. I think it's from an interview with the woman from Cherish the Ladies. What's her name? Anyway, she's really good.
Ditch the vibrato. I went to a pub once and they had an Irish band that had a classical flutist and while she was very good, she really made them sound not Irish at all with all her vibrato. I never went back to hear them again.
# Posted on January 28th 2010 by sbhikes
Re: Easy tunes to ornament on a silver flute?
That's Joanie Madden with Cherish the Ladies.
# Posted on January 28th 2010 by dereksmootz
Re: Easy tunes to ornament on a silver flute?
Theres a MelBay tutorial book for Irish music on the silver flute. I think it is called "The irish flute book" or something like that and it is specifically for those wanting to play this music on the sliver flute. They address how to do the ornaments in quite a lot of detail, but you will still need to listen to lots of this music to understand how it works and to know where and why to use the ornaments and how they are actually meant to sound.
And yes, don't do vibrato in the classical way. It is inappropriate (it is also inappropriate for most baroque music, but that doesn't stop a lot of people doing it!).
Oh, and to avoid confusion dsmootz, I presume you don't mean that Joanie Madden was the woman with the vibrato...
# Posted on January 28th 2010 by Crackpot
Re: Easy tunes to ornament on a silver flute?
Right, I was responding to the previous paragraph - Joanie plays the the whistle and silver flute, both on solo albums and with Cherish the Ladies.
# Posted on January 28th 2010 by dereksmootz
Re: Easy tunes to ornament on a silver flute?
Unfortunately, the MelBay book referenced above isn't any good in my opinion. The chapter on Irish music on the Boehm flute in Grey Larsen's book is good, and there's a new DVD out that looks interesting. http://www.instruction.kellsband.com/learn/Irish_Music_on_the_Classical_Flute.html
This is a fantastic resource: http://www.rogermillington.com/siamsa/brosteve/
The techniques for cuts, rolls, and taps on the silver flute are largely the same as on whistle; just a few notes (notably F#) need a workaround. (The trill keys are also nice for some chirpy cuts.)
# Posted on January 28th 2010 by mcswiss
Re: Easy tunes to ornament on a silver flute?
The main effect of the MelBay book on me was to make me go out and buy a wooden flute and use that instead for the Irish music - I never actually tried to stick with this type of ornamentation on the Boehm flute. Now I play both, but keep them for their appropriate music.
# Posted on January 28th 2010 by Crackpot
Re: Easy tunes to ornament on a silver flute?
I've tried it on Boehm flute and it is very unsatisfying. However
mine goes down to low B and it's good for weird keys. I never
use any more though for Trad.
# Posted on January 29th 2010 by Hup
Re: Easy tunes to ornament on a silver flute?
Mine goes to low B too and I wouldn't use anything else for e.g. popcorn behaviour in the key that fiddlers like to play it in. (Not actually true - a whistle in the appropriate key works too...)
However, usually I don't even have the boehm with me when I go to sessions so I would just sit out the most awkwardly keyed tunes.
# Posted on January 29th 2010 by Crackpot
Re: Easy tunes to ornament on a silver flute?
I use a boehm flute because I can't get the reach on the wooden one - I agree with just listening and finding what things sound like. I would advise that she learns the tunes in their simple forms at first - rhythm and flow is much more important early on. I find some ornaments really difficult still but I would say the best advice I could give her is to listen to yourself and others and persevere.
# Posted on January 29th 2010 by An Kammneves
Re: Easy tunes to ornament on a silver flute?
Thanks all. She's not my daughter - I'm the music teacher and would like to think I'm pretty good at Irish music myself. The question was more one for suggestions - I know the tunes and the ornaments, but understand that on most instruments there are tunes where the ornaments sit really comfortably and others where they don't sound right without them, but can be a bugger to play. I've taught her the Eavesdropper and where and what ornaments to play. She'll get there...
Thanks again for your help and advice - I'll definitely look up the Grey Larsen book.
# Posted on January 29th 2010 by farmerboy