I'm recording a CD for a college project. However, the only mic I have is a Shure SM57, which is working well for everything but my accordions. I'm playing a 4-voice Paolo and a 2-voice Dancemaster, and I can't get them to sound good. Is there anything I can do with input levels and mic positioning with this particular microphone to get them to sound better? I haven't the resources to get a new mic.
Bear in mind that it has a cardiod polar pattern, so you'd either need two (assuming you're playing both hands) or place it a little distance off for mono (which won't sound great anyway). As it's dynamic, it's more designed for louder sources such as voices, drums etc, so this may not be so effective. The frequency response (quite pronounced in the if I recall correctly) may not be ideal for the high end either.
I would say a condenser is more suitable. Are you able to hire a pair of mics? I would seriously consider looking into this. You may find it hard to do your boxes justice with an SM57.
Yeah that's pretty much a vocal mike. It's a practically indestructible vocal mike, but a vocal mike nonetheless. You might try playing your box in a stairway for the reverb and maybe that would flesh out what you get out of the SM57. Or run it through an inexpensive preamp to beef up the sound. I think Behringer makes a tube preamp you can get for around $50 that has a variety of settings on it.
If you're recording digitally on a multi-track machine you might also just record your part on the box and stack it on multiple tracks. Or if your recorded has an equalizer then you can fix the range problems to the best of the eq's ability on the stacked track, resetting them for the other tracks. I did that with a cheap guitar and an SM57 once, then downsampled the resulting file and the product wasn't too bad.
What sort of problems are you having specifically? "Doesn't sound good" is hard to work with.
What are you trying to do, and what is the nature of the failure?
Is it a problem of balance between the reeds, or overall volume, or what?
It seems to me that a characteristic specific to accordions or concertinas which could affect recording technique and mic placement is that there are two separate sound sources (bass and treble) which move to and from each other as the instrument is played. Sounds worse than mic placement for fiddles!
Yeah, the motion is a problem. If you're not concerned with the left hand, the box is easier, since the melody side doesn't move, but there's the problem of a foot or so of inidividual point sources of sound. A 57's off-axis rejection starts at about 30 degrees. If you just stick it up against the grill, most of the reeds will be outside of that range, meaning they'll be at a lower volume than the others. One answer, the one I've seen used a lot for live situations, is to place a 57 or a 58 at the treble side about 6 inches or so out, and angled up so most of the upper two octaves are in the sweet spot, and the treble side gets a bit of a proximity effect to make up for the treble rolloff that characterizes those mics.
This doesn't get the bass, of course, but it's probably the best way I can think of to get a balanced sound on the box with one 57.
It'd sound a lot better in combination with a good room mic, a large-diaphragm condenser. Blend those two, and you'll get something you like. With the 57, well, you'll get something.
If you can rent - or afford it, if you play on stage often, it's the best mikes i've tried, go for AKG goose-neck mikes. You stick the end of the goose neck to the box, on each side, and the mikes are positionned about one inch of the grids, with a wide range taking all the reeds, with a very natural sound. Easy to use, good sound and quite worth the investment : I've been using mine for more than 15 years...
Shue designed the SM58 as their indestructible vocal mic, and the SM57 as their indestructible instrument mic. Some prefer using the SM57 as a vocal mic because of the slightly higher dynamic range, which I agree with. If I had only those two to choose from for vocals I would pick the 57, as I detest the SM58, indestructible is about it's only merit. With some pre-audio experience, I see the SM57 used most frequently as a live instrument mic, as a snare/tomtom mic, and as a mic for electric guitar amps. They take a lot of punishment and keep working. For recording purposes, they are more limited, used mainly for amp and some drum mic-ing, as condensers start taking over when recording comes into play.
You mention budget, but if you have a little cash, you can pick up an inexpensive condenser mic these days for less than $100. Even the least expensive condenser is going to be better for recording instruments than even a high quality dynamic. Audio Technica, Shure, Marshal MXL, Sterling Audio, just avoid Nady, that's about as bottom of the barrel as you can get.
Rogfox, on a wooden box, like mine, there are screw fittings to enable each half to be opened for maintenance and also to provide fixtures for the strap fittings. I think if you were to fit a thin metal or plastic member between a screw and the wood you could use that member to attach the mic base to, without fear of damaging the wood.
While I'm thinking about it, internal mics wouldn't be a good idea - there must be a lot of air sloshing around inside and it would probably sound like a hurricane!
lazy, I've never liked internal mics either- I think they are too close to the reeds and sound unnatural.
The idea of a couple of mikes positioned in front of the grill makes a lot of sense, since they are 'hearing' pretty much what the ear hears and remain the same distance away at all times.
I see what you are saying about using some of the fittings to provide a stable attachment for the mic bases. I will investigate further....
rogfox, I used both. Never had any problem :but I leave the pads sticked to the box all times, so I don't really know. If you glue them the wood finish might be damaged, and if you screw them, then you have to dig 2 holes for the screws... In my opiion, the screws would cause less damage : it's easier to fill them when you want to take the pads off, than to redo varnish... But I put the pads under the box : when you don't have the mikes on, you just don't see the pads at all...
I installed Sennheiser stereo accordion pickups on one of my boxes that can be purchased in a kit. But a condenser mic would be best for your purpose and money constraints.
Ha, internal mics for accordion? That's a good one ; )
I have an internal mic in one of my boxes, and really don't like the sound at all. You get the mechanical sound of the keys opening/closing and sometimes a click when changing bellows direction. And don't dare using any reverb effect as you get a real funky sound with it. I always prefer mic'ing externally (ANY external mic sounds better) and will only "plug in" as a last resort.
The 57 is a wonderful instrument mike. Its just that for instruments like the piano and the box, the narrow field is a problem. They are great for flutes and winds and such.
With the 57, for pianos and boxes and such you really need 2 of them-and then you might not get a satisfactory response because of the narrow pickup up pattern. With the 57 you might consider running 2 as a stereo pair. If you split them ona single channel you may run into a significant signal drop.
I use an AKG cardoid and it works well (I also use it on my guitar aimed at the kneck slightly above the sound hole). You do have to be careful not to move too much.
I am told the audio technica pro 37 has a decent pick up range. I am looking into them for another vocal use but can not speak with any authroity at all on them since I have not had a chance to 'test drive' one of them.
So, basically you say that you only have this mic, and can't get another one, so your only option is to experiment with the room you record in and the mic placement.
The room will have a huge effect on the sound - try a very big room, with the mic at least 4 foot away from the accordion
you need to keep the Shure within a couple of inches of the grill. I played a contradance back in December with a 57, and really had to keep the box grille close to the mic to be heard. If I moved away a couple of inches, the fiddle player would yell at me to move closer.
I think it's just the wrong mic for the application.
best I've found in this situation is point the SM57 at a large reflective surface, like a pane of glass or a mirror and play the box facing the mirror. Sounds great on reflection...
There's no problem using a 57. Of course a better mic will sound better but you have to go with what you have. With a 57, if you are just playing right hand, place the mic about 2 feet, 60 centimetres, from the grille and roughly in the middle ( in terms of top to bottom ) pointing at the right hand grille. If you are playing both hands like a real accordionist then you should keep roughly the same distance but move the mic across towards the left hand (bass) side of the accordion until you achieve the best balance. Often, especially with cheaper accordions, the left hand (bass) side will overpower the right hand side. You have to experiment a bit. You should note that the SM57 will not capture a very deep or extended bass response so the better the mic, the better the result. A good condensor mic will always do better. Be sure to try to mask off the room you are in with ANYTHING! Padded panels, office dividers, blankets, mattresses....anything to reduce the reverberation from the room. So, if you are using a 57, put the panels BEHIND you....this is where the mic is pointed and where it picks up from......that's where it gets it's roomy sound from and that's what will ultimately mean you can't quite get the accordion to 'sit out' in the mix. You need to get it as dry as possible in a studio...multitrack situation.
Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
Hey all,
I'm recording a CD for a college project. However, the only mic I have is a Shure SM57, which is working well for everything but my accordions. I'm playing a 4-voice Paolo and a 2-voice Dancemaster, and I can't get them to sound good. Is there anything I can do with input levels and mic positioning with this particular microphone to get them to sound better? I haven't the resources to get a new mic.
Thanks!
# Posted on January 17th 2010 by Zazzaliss
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
Bear in mind that it has a cardiod polar pattern, so you'd either need two (assuming you're playing both hands) or place it a little distance off for mono (which won't sound great anyway). As it's dynamic, it's more designed for louder sources such as voices, drums etc, so this may not be so effective. The frequency response (quite pronounced in the if I recall correctly) may not be ideal for the high end either.
I would say a condenser is more suitable. Are you able to hire a pair of mics? I would seriously consider looking into this. You may find it hard to do your boxes justice with an SM57.
# Posted on January 17th 2010 by Joe Wass
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
for "quite pronounced in the if I recall correctly" read "quite pronounced in vocal range the if I recall correctly"!
# Posted on January 17th 2010 by Joe Wass
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
Yeah that's pretty much a vocal mike. It's a practically indestructible vocal mike, but a vocal mike nonetheless. You might try playing your box in a stairway for the reverb and maybe that would flesh out what you get out of the SM57. Or run it through an inexpensive preamp to beef up the sound. I think Behringer makes a tube preamp you can get for around $50 that has a variety of settings on it.
# Posted on January 17th 2010 by gravelwalks
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
If you're recording digitally on a multi-track machine you might also just record your part on the box and stack it on multiple tracks. Or if your recorded has an equalizer then you can fix the range problems to the best of the eq's ability on the stacked track, resetting them for the other tracks. I did that with a cheap guitar and an SM57 once, then downsampled the resulting file and the product wasn't too bad.
# Posted on January 17th 2010 by gravelwalks
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
What sort of problems are you having specifically? "Doesn't sound good" is hard to work with.
What are you trying to do, and what is the nature of the failure?
Is it a problem of balance between the reeds, or overall volume, or what?
Here's the spec sheet for that mic:
http://www.shure.com/stellent/groups/public/@gms_gmi_web_ug/documents/web_resource/us_pro_sm57_specsheet.pdf
This might help a little.
# Posted on January 17th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
It seems to me that a characteristic specific to accordions or concertinas which could affect recording technique and mic placement is that there are two separate sound sources (bass and treble) which move to and from each other as the instrument is played. Sounds worse than mic placement for fiddles!
# Posted on January 18th 2010 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
I found a 2 mic, large diaphragm condenser set up , one each side worked well recording accordion. .
# Posted on January 18th 2010 by piobagusfidil
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
Yeah, the motion is a problem. If you're not concerned with the left hand, the box is easier, since the melody side doesn't move, but there's the problem of a foot or so of inidividual point sources of sound. A 57's off-axis rejection starts at about 30 degrees. If you just stick it up against the grill, most of the reeds will be outside of that range, meaning they'll be at a lower volume than the others. One answer, the one I've seen used a lot for live situations, is to place a 57 or a 58 at the treble side about 6 inches or so out, and angled up so most of the upper two octaves are in the sweet spot, and the treble side gets a bit of a proximity effect to make up for the treble rolloff that characterizes those mics.
This doesn't get the bass, of course, but it's probably the best way I can think of to get a balanced sound on the box with one 57.
It'd sound a lot better in combination with a good room mic, a large-diaphragm condenser. Blend those two, and you'll get something you like. With the 57, well, you'll get something.
# Posted on January 18th 2010 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
If you can rent - or afford it, if you play on stage often, it's the best mikes i've tried, go for AKG goose-neck mikes. You stick the end of the goose neck to the box, on each side, and the mikes are positionned about one inch of the grids, with a wide range taking all the reeds, with a very natural sound. Easy to use, good sound and quite worth the investment : I've been using mine for more than 15 years...
# Posted on January 18th 2010 by Nikita Pfister
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
Shue designed the SM58 as their indestructible vocal mic, and the SM57 as their indestructible instrument mic. Some prefer using the SM57 as a vocal mic because of the slightly higher dynamic range, which I agree with. If I had only those two to choose from for vocals I would pick the 57, as I detest the SM58, indestructible is about it's only merit. With some pre-audio experience, I see the SM57 used most frequently as a live instrument mic, as a snare/tomtom mic, and as a mic for electric guitar amps. They take a lot of punishment and keep working. For recording purposes, they are more limited, used mainly for amp and some drum mic-ing, as condensers start taking over when recording comes into play.
You mention budget, but if you have a little cash, you can pick up an inexpensive condenser mic these days for less than $100. Even the least expensive condenser is going to be better for recording instruments than even a high quality dynamic. Audio Technica, Shure, Marshal MXL, Sterling Audio, just avoid Nady, that's about as bottom of the barrel as you can get.
# Posted on January 18th 2010 by Jimmy B
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
"Shure" not "Shue"
# Posted on January 18th 2010 by Jimmy B
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
Nikita, did you use adhesive to stick the mic bases on or screw them on?
I'm worried about the wood finish on my box getting damaged either way with the AKG goosenecks.
# Posted on January 18th 2010 by rogfox
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
Rogfox, on a wooden box, like mine, there are screw fittings to enable each half to be opened for maintenance and also to provide fixtures for the strap fittings. I think if you were to fit a thin metal or plastic member between a screw and the wood you could use that member to attach the mic base to, without fear of damaging the wood.
While I'm thinking about it, internal mics wouldn't be a good idea - there must be a lot of air sloshing around inside and it would probably sound like a hurricane!
# Posted on January 19th 2010 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
lazy, I've never liked internal mics either- I think they are too close to the reeds and sound unnatural.
The idea of a couple of mikes positioned in front of the grill makes a lot of sense, since they are 'hearing' pretty much what the ear hears and remain the same distance away at all times.
I see what you are saying about using some of the fittings to provide a stable attachment for the mic bases. I will investigate further....
# Posted on January 19th 2010 by rogfox
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
rogfox, I used both. Never had any problem :but I leave the pads sticked to the box all times, so I don't really know. If you glue them the wood finish might be damaged, and if you screw them, then you have to dig 2 holes for the screws... In my opiion, the screws would cause less damage : it's easier to fill them when you want to take the pads off, than to redo varnish... But I put the pads under the box : when you don't have the mikes on, you just don't see the pads at all...
# Posted on January 19th 2010 by Nikita Pfister
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
I installed Sennheiser stereo accordion pickups on one of my boxes that can be purchased in a kit. But a condenser mic would be best for your purpose and money constraints.
Ha, internal mics for accordion? That's a good one ; )
# Posted on January 19th 2010 by Lint - upon - Tweed
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
I have an internal mic in one of my boxes, and really don't like the sound at all. You get the mechanical sound of the keys opening/closing and sometimes a click when changing bellows direction. And don't dare using any reverb effect as you get a real funky sound with it. I always prefer mic'ing externally (ANY external mic sounds better) and will only "plug in" as a last resort.
# Posted on January 19th 2010 by pbassnote
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
The 57 is a wonderful instrument mike. Its just that for instruments like the piano and the box, the narrow field is a problem. They are great for flutes and winds and such.
With the 57, for pianos and boxes and such you really need 2 of them-and then you might not get a satisfactory response because of the narrow pickup up pattern. With the 57 you might consider running 2 as a stereo pair. If you split them ona single channel you may run into a significant signal drop.
I use an AKG cardoid and it works well (I also use it on my guitar aimed at the kneck slightly above the sound hole). You do have to be careful not to move too much.
I am told the audio technica pro 37 has a decent pick up range. I am looking into them for another vocal use but can not speak with any authroity at all on them since I have not had a chance to 'test drive' one of them.
# Posted on January 20th 2010 by zippydw
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
So, basically you say that you only have this mic, and can't get another one, so your only option is to experiment with the room you record in and the mic placement.
The room will have a huge effect on the sound - try a very big room, with the mic at least 4 foot away from the accordion
# Posted on January 21st 2010 by melodica
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
you need to keep the Shure within a couple of inches of the grill. I played a contradance back in December with a 57, and really had to keep the box grille close to the mic to be heard. If I moved away a couple of inches, the fiddle player would yell at me to move closer.
I think it's just the wrong mic for the application.
# Posted on January 21st 2010 by rogfox
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
best I've found in this situation is point the SM57 at a large reflective surface, like a pane of glass or a mirror and play the box facing the mirror. Sounds great on reflection...
# Posted on January 28th 2010 by farmerboy
Re: Recording Accordion with a Shure SM57
There's no problem using a 57. Of course a better mic will sound better but you have to go with what you have. With a 57, if you are just playing right hand, place the mic about 2 feet, 60 centimetres, from the grille and roughly in the middle ( in terms of top to bottom ) pointing at the right hand grille. If you are playing both hands like a real accordionist then you should keep roughly the same distance but move the mic across towards the left hand (bass) side of the accordion until you achieve the best balance. Often, especially with cheaper accordions, the left hand (bass) side will overpower the right hand side. You have to experiment a bit. You should note that the SM57 will not capture a very deep or extended bass response so the better the mic, the better the result. A good condensor mic will always do better. Be sure to try to mask off the room you are in with ANYTHING! Padded panels, office dividers, blankets, mattresses....anything to reduce the reverberation from the room. So, if you are using a 57, put the panels BEHIND you....this is where the mic is pointed and where it picks up from......that's where it gets it's roomy sound from and that's what will ultimately mean you can't quite get the accordion to 'sit out' in the mix. You need to get it as dry as possible in a studio...multitrack situation.
# Posted on September 22nd 2010 by Accobello