Are there any tunes or songs you absolutely will not play,
for whatever reasons?
There are some I choose not to play because to me they are
overplayed to the point of overexposure, the melody doesn't appeal to me,
or pop culture has gotten wind of it and taken
it to new lows of having their 'way' with it.
When playing at sessions, it could also be certain songs you absolutely refuse to sing.
When I first started playing, for me it was the OBS, or
Orange Blossom Special. IMO it represented showoff fiddling,
akin to hokum (buffoonery) or 'hoy' as a dear old Arkansas fiddler once called it.
At that time I considered myself an artiste in that I would
never lower my standards to even consider playing such a piece.
The funny thing was, I had an epiphany a little later when I started playing for a few weddings:
people wanted to PAY me to play that 'crap'!! Once I got over myself, I changed my philosophy:
if they're payin' for it, I'll play it. To paraphrase Liberace, 'I'll cry all the way to the bank'.
Maybe it's overplayed 'entry-level' tunes that for you have become old hat and boring to play.
Let's create a list: the top 101 worst tunes/songs of ITM!
If you consider yourself an artiste, and you'll only lower yourself for money, you're in the wrong line of work. I honestly think you "artistes" are ruining this stuff. This is folk music, not elite music, go do your more important stuff somewhere else.
Kenny--The point is, are there tunes that you would rather not play for whatever reason. And what would be the reason(s)?
In some cases, it might not even be for a reason other than that you just happen to not like the tune.
What about songs that have been done to death, or are stereotypes of the Irish--Danny Boy, When Irish Eyes Are Smiling, McNamara's Band, My Mother's Wedding Day come to mind.
The most popular tunes on the listings here are the tunes most people no longer play, They're good starter tunes, they catch the ear, but later one sees them as, perhaps, cliched.
I will not sing The Fields of Athenry, but occasionally someone else sings it and, reluctantly, I accompany.
It's the saccarhine sentiment I abhor, PLUS it is not traditional, therefore no better than Percy French. Traditional songs have something extra, honed through all those years of transmission, variation, and the fact of selection, that they are still being sung.
I listened to Martin Hayes playing Britches Full of Stitches in a concert and it was incredible. Is the point of this to make a list so that learners will know how wretched their repertoire is? You sound like a lot of fun in a session, mate.
Tadhg mac Saoirse--
I'm not the same person I was 25 years ago. My take on playing certain tunes likewise has changed. I once had disdain for playing certain 'show'/'showoff' tunes. For lack of a better term I used the word 'artiste'.
Now that I'm older, I no longer have that self-righteous feeling about playing certain tunes. I guess you could say my mindset is more wrapped around being an 'entertainer'.
If the customer is paying, and they want sh*te,
I say serve it to 'em-- but on a silver platter.
It's all in the presentation!
fidkid--
I never intended to demean anyone's repertoire. What I meant was not everybody likes every single tune under the sun. There's gotta be some tunes/songs out there that don't exactly do it for ya.
I can remember the first session I attended and was grateful to be allowed to play the only two Irish tunes I knew at the time: Irish Washerwoman, and Drowsy Maggie. I got to share and contribute in that session and for that I was grateful. But as I progressed and learned more tunes, IWW and DM became jumping off points. I wanted to play the newest (trad) tunes I learned from the last session; as a necessary result the tunes I 'cut my teeth on' got played less frequently.
When they do come around at sessions I actually enjoy playing them precisely because they're not played as much any more.
We've had this and similar discussions several times before and I, like many others, used to worry about it.
Of course, there's many songs or tunes which I wouldn't choose to "start" but I'd probably be happy to join in with just about any of them. If I really can't be bothered on a particular night, I can pretend to have a rest , go to the loo, or the bar. or whatever.
I certainly wouldn't start moaning about it , i.e. "Oh no, not that one again" or try to "poo poo" another player or singer for playing it.
Again, I might well have been guilty of this in the past but nowadays I feel that life is too short.
After all, a session is as good as the players and singers who attend and the repertoire reflects the tastes and ability of those present. If the odd tune or song (tired, naff, or just one you don't like) slips into the session, so be it. If it's a good night, no-one will worry one way or the other.
As "bogman" says, there's obviously a big difference between "choosing" to do something for a performance or even leading a set than "joining in" during a session..where you should really be giving your mates support.
Maybe a better thread title would be " tunes/songs you prefer not to play". If someone comes to a session and can only play old standards it would be very rude to sit out these tunes.
If a tune is 'done to death', it is usually because it is a damned good tune. If you played it 1000 times before, a couple more isn't going to hurt you Put your heart into it every time.
Of course, there's always some tunes which we don't play.....because we can't! At least, not as well as we should.
Sometimes, it's because they don't appeal sufficiently for us to learn them properly OR there might even be a tricky bit which we can't quite master. So, we will often...unjustly... dislike a particular tune for that reason.
I'm sure everyone has been guilty of this..even although they'll not all admit it.
Fair enough, all. It's the eye rolling and making a big show of not playing along because it's beneath you when someone starts up Cup of Tea that strikes me as head-in-ass. Truth be told, I could go a long time not playing Hole In the Hedge with Seamus Cooley's, but everyone else seems to love it so I play along. Time and time again.
There's actually "any number" I'd choose not to start but not necessarily because I didn't like them.
e.g.
I might not feel confident that I know them well enough yet although I could easily "join in"
They've been played already in another set or I know another player(s) will play them later. In some sessions, certain sets are often associated with a certain player so we often allow them the courtesy of starting them off. It all depends where you are, of course.
Some tunes are more obscure and might not be known to everyone there. So, it's not always appropriate to include them at a particular sessions..though sometimes you can.
And so on.
Basically though, surely there's enough tunes you really like that you don't need to think about which ones to exclude?
It sounded like a good idea at the time dept....
Well, the discussion thread of 'what's your favorite tunes' seems to have been done already.
Thought that by putting a new twist on the above might delve a bit into why we like what we like in a tune and by extension why we don't like what we don't like in a tune.
Well the thread might not have achieved what the OP intended, but as a newbie and total beginner I find it reassuring that so many of you have a positive attitude towards those tunes that we beginners will no doubt choose to play, even if they are, to you, 'old hat'.
So, if that's all this thread has managed then at least it was something!
Of course if you let on that you can't stand a particular tune everyone will launch into it as soon as you walk in the door. That's what I'd do, anyway.
Every note of the second part of Brenda Stubberts is like a knitting needle being jabbed into my ear. I hate it so much that I don't even like the Altan version. I used to like it but now it's heavily soiled.
I recall that particular tune being very difficult to learn at the time. in fact, it didn't seem to have that much of a tune at all.
Mind you, that was about 17 years ago and I found things much harder then.
We had to learn it at an ALP class in Edinburgh(Nigel, if you're reading this..it was called that back then ) and I forced myself to master it to avoid looking liking a fool.
Of course, I grew to love the tune eventually and shall continue to do so...if only to justify all the effort at the time.
I find Cup of Tea to be difficult to play. of the 300 to 500 reels that i've either learned or dabbled with, I have the most difficulty playing the opening phrase of Cup of Tea. Of course i can play an Em tetrachord up and down. but that opening line is more than just a scale, it has a particular rhythm that it must be played with.
For me, a lot of tunes I 'choose not to start' are because I can't for the life of me remember how they begin.
A great many tunes have similar if not exact same few first notes.
I call them 'jump start' tunes, because as soon as someone else starts the tune, I think "oh yeah, I know this one" and jump right in.
I was at a session for the first time and it was a round robin. Being young and ignorant, I wanted to choose something everyone knew so I chose 'Irish Washerwoman'. Everyone looked like they got a bad taste in their mouth. We played it and next time around, they skipped me.
The King Of The Fairies. I've said this before - I hate that tune. Nothing to do with its name or associations: if it was called Cheryl Cole With Nothing On I'd still think it was a grindingly dispiriting bellyache of a dirge. Even if it was played by someone pretty good. It's usually played appallingly badly, as if everybody else loathes it too but are only playing it because someone felt he / she had to start it. But this does not increase group solidarity, it merely aggravates solitary misery. The tune sags like an overloaded hulk, stationary and wallowing heavily at the same time somewhere in mid-ocean, as I say goodbye to the world and go into dead time until it has finally crunched into another continent and I can wake up and begin life again.
No doubt a blizzard of YouTube versions will follow this...
I can't think of any tune or song I know that I wouldn't join in on. Now, songs and tunes I don't know, I consider it a public service not to play along with them.
Not sharing a tune with someone is impolite in my mind, kind of like refusing offer of a meal or drink, or standing there looking at them like a bug when they try to shake hands.
I guess if someone came into the session, and started song after song and tune after tune without giving others a chance, I might balk at some point. But that is because they are being impolite.
"The King of the Fairies ... a grindingly dispiriting bellyache of a dirge"
When it's played at dirge speed in a session, I couldn't agree more, and that is because the slow speed is quite out of context. The slow speed is intended for step dancers so that they can get all their intricate footwork in place.
But play TKOTF at about double that speed with a bit of swing (which would right mess up said intricate footwork!), and it comes to life.
There are tons of tunes I wouldn't waste my breath on. I'm starting to get old now and my breath is valuable so I don't want to waste it. Also, it gives learners and newbies a chance to strut their stuff. These tunes are not necessarily The Kesh and other opportunistic commensals of such a pandemic. They may be nicely structured tunes but if they don't balance a set nicely I may sit it out. And there are things like The Lonesome Boatman, which, previously I might have said I wouldn't stoop to pandering to punters' requests by attempting it, but in reality I don't have it off as well as the Fureys or some of the 3-trick wonder Fureys-wannabees who know that version plus 2 other tunes (maybe a couple more) as their whole repertoire of Irish trad music. Yes, well I'm snobby enough to not want to be that class of player.
No doubt the denizens on here will be queuing up to avenge me for speaking my mind but do I care? Take it or leave it, that's what I do and think and also why my input here has of late shrunk. Ning Ning Ning. Water off a duck's back.
When I was younger and in my prime, I entertained the fantasy that I would learn as many tunes as possible so I could go to a session and actually *know* every tune the session heavys were playing.
This way when the players started straying into the more arcane and little known versions of tunes, say
Seamus McBlankity's setting of Pidgeon Poop On The Gate taken from the 1938 wire recording they got from a field trip to the Library of Congress last summer, I'd be ready and could play the tune with them.
My eyes were opened to the utter folly of this mindset when at the Lark In The Morning Music Camp back in 1985.
A famous fretless banjo player attending the camp told of a similar story. He came to the realization that with all the zillions of tunes out there, life is just too short to learn tunes you don't like.
Absolutely will not play? I am not an absolutist by nature. However, I have not played any ITM tunes in nearly a year. The cause does not lie in the tunes, themselves, it lies in me. When it comes to ITM, I have lost my creativity. Nothing feels fresh. Everything I have played I have overplayed.
At the moment I am enamored of country music, mostly of Texas origin; some bits of Kentucky bluegrass as well, but not much.
I can't think of a single tune in the Irish traditional repertoire I would not play in a session. And I've found, over the years, that nearly every tune that at first may have struck me as naff eventually reveals some redeeming quality about itself once I've spent some time inside it.
That said, I prefer tunes with sinuous melodies that take unexpected turns, and I like tunes that are modally multipersonalitied or ambiguous. But even the tunes that are barely one evolutionary link above scales, arpeggios, or drone noise (e.g., Concertina Reel, Jig of Slurs) can be fun to play--at least on the physical level of swinging the bow into the pulse of the tune. And they also lend themselves to ad libbing beyond the edge a bit just to see if anyone else is paying attention.
Besides, the longer you play this music, the easier it is to play the allegedly naff tunes on the fly, without ever taking time to work them up and retain them. A bit like sitting in on an Old Timey jam.....
That anecdote about Martin Hayes (above) covers it. A creative
muso with good command of the instrument can make any tune
sound beautiful and fresh. The problem is that the great majority
of us session proletariat either don't have the creative talent, don't
have the technique or usually both.
Even you if do have the chops, it's probably wasted in a noisy
session, so yeah, I guess in a session it's better to skip 'Kesh'
and others like that.
I always like Brenda stubberts when I hear it played, and there are some pretty different takes on it locally. But I've never played it myself. Quite happy to listen.
Cup of Tea I play all the time even though I've never liked it. I quite like the first part, the other parts are ok. But they just don't fit together into a single tune, sounds like some crap stitched up melody. I play it all the time though as there a are a few mates likely to start it up.
Never cared very much for the kesh, just learned it 'cos it was always played. I didn't get tired of it, never liked it. Some tunes that don't appeal as lisening music can be fun to play with other people, perhaps only come to life when played with others.
I wouldn't sit out a tune I knew because I didn't like it.
I might sit one out for other reasons: enough people playing, enjoying listening etc. Some of my favourite tunes I've never learned or seriously tried to play 'cos I like hearing them so much and I'd rather listen to them without my banjo trampling all over them. e.g. Sean sa ceo e.g. Green fields of glentown. I often ask one of my mates to play these on whistle (or flute for Ssc, flute not so good for glentown). When he plays them I just want to listen.
Are any of you speaking about this from the perspective or viewpoint of a "backer" or backup musician/sideman as to which tunes you prefer to play or not to play?
There are some tunes which I prefer not to play because the chord progression is uninteresting or I think the tune sounds better unaccompanied. In that case, I just sit there quietly and listen.
As a backer I dont like tunes in C; Or scot skinner stuff -time for the bar;
As opposed to tunes I just love to hear there is a differance.
I think its important to differentiate between dont play cause you like and cannot add anything and dont play because you dislike.
Good point, bazouki dave, I often sit out when accompanying, not because I don't like the tune, but like you say, I don't think I have anything to add. Every accompanist should sit out here and there, it lets the session breath.
bazouki dave & AlBrown--
I initially started this thread as a 'tunes I wont'/don't like to play, but it's morphed into a 'tunes I choose/prefer not to play.
The point of sitting out because you cannot add anything to the tune and sitting out to let the session breathe are totally new takes on the reason for not playing. Excellent points.
Not in this music, but there are a couple jazz tunes I don't really like to play. My band mates know which ones they are.
Last Valentines Day, I put one of them on a set list at a hotel gig we were on, and the guys really lit up. It was funny to see their reaction. It was like I just told them they were getting out of prison early or something. Then they thought I was joking, but I said that I thought about what they said the last time they asked to play it and that I was being wrongheaded about it all.
we had a really good playing of it, too, so it just goes to show that if you give some tunes half a chance good stuff can happen anyway
Fauxcelt - if the chord progression is uninteresting, maybe that's when you have to do something more interesting rhythmically.
Ever heard a bodrhan-player say he didn't like a tune because the chord progression was uninteresting ?
I think I agree with you about Scott Skinner though - hey, it's not even Irish anyway, we don't have to talk about that here.
"hey, it's not even Irish anyway, we don't have to talk about that here."
Surely session/trad music is all types, not just Irish?
I love some irish music, and absolutely hate some of it. There are some Irish tunes that just go on and on with no real tune or rhythm that are just boring. Scottish music has far more bounce, more rhythm, more syncopation, and some of it is totally fantastic. Again, there are other Scottish tunes I'm not so keen on. Also love Cape Breton style music. But I'm Scottish, living in Scotland, so ultimately Scottish music is *mine" in a way Irish isn't. Not so keen on Scott Skinner stuff either though!
"Some Irish tunes that just go on and on with no real tune or rhythm that are just boring". Examples please ?
"Scottish music has far more bounce... etc" Crap. It all depends who's playing it.
Cathf brings up the s word, therebye reminding me that I generally dislike syncopation. It is very rare that I could be bothered to learn a syncopated tune. There seems to be a big glut of modern tunes which have syncopation as their main hook. Usually strikes me as a bit of a gimic and there appears to be very little else to the tune.
Everyone else around here seems to love the funky modern though.
Yes, Guernsey Pete, your suggestion to do something rhythmically is a good one and I will do that sometimes if I want to and feel like it.
Both of the instruments which I play (piano and bass) can be percussive depending on how you are playing or what you are playing.
...and I'm coming in way late here, missed all the fun, so my apologies if it's already been said above but...
Ask not what the tune does for you, ask what you can do for the tune!
...but for crying out loud we've played The Kesh twice already today. I know you just got here, but we've been playing all day and the last thing we want to do is trot that sucker out AGAIN.
I like the comment from Miss Lonelyhearts. Just the same here is an alternative viewpoint I found;
". . .It makes me wonder why I learned them too. I guess I was young and just learned them all so I could keep playing. I warn people away from doing that now. Just learn the tunes that really take your fancy, the really special ones. And then you'll have no bother remembering them."
Random, there's a lot of wisdom in that perspective. I tend to actively learn tunes that appeal to me. Tunes I find less appealing but that other people play at the sessions I go to eventually crop up under my fingers anyway, just by sheer dint of hearing them over and over. So I can play them without sitting down to learn them.
""Some Irish tunes that just go on and on with no real tune or rhythm that are just boring". Examples please ?"
To be honest, I don't know. I only ever ask names of tunes I like, so I can learn them. The ones that are played regularly that I don't like I just tend to head for the bar.
I'm not into creating rivalry between Scots and Irish music - I love both, and in many cases it's hard to tell the difference from just the tune. But I learned in North East Scotland and Shetland style, so I guess that style of playing and that music will probably always be my favourite at sessions.
So I was just intregued by the comment that only Irish music was "on topic" here. Surely any musician is just interested in good music? Who cares where it comes from? Half the time we don't even know for sure, or it's the same tune with a different name anyway.
Seems to me there are lots of reasons tunes get "over popular," and one important one is because they are cracking good tunes. Kesh, Butterfly, Fanny Poer and whatever are that popular at least in part because they can stand being played badly and still survive. I used to tell students that one way to judge really great music is that it can survive really horrid arrangements. I think the same is true of the "standard" session tunes. Yes one can get tired of them, but they always have something to offer if we dig for it.
tunes/songs you will not play
tunes/songs you will not play
Are there any tunes or songs you absolutely will not play,
for whatever reasons?
There are some I choose not to play because to me they are
overplayed to the point of overexposure, the melody doesn't appeal to me,
or pop culture has gotten wind of it and taken
it to new lows of having their 'way' with it.
When playing at sessions, it could also be certain songs you absolutely refuse to sing.
When I first started playing, for me it was the OBS, or
Orange Blossom Special. IMO it represented showoff fiddling,
akin to hokum (buffoonery) or 'hoy' as a dear old Arkansas fiddler once called it.
At that time I considered myself an artiste in that I would
never lower my standards to even consider playing such a piece.
The funny thing was, I had an epiphany a little later when I started playing for a few weddings:
people wanted to PAY me to play that 'crap'!! Once I got over myself, I changed my philosophy:
if they're payin' for it, I'll play it. To paraphrase Liberace, 'I'll cry all the way to the bank'.
Maybe it's overplayed 'entry-level' tunes that for you have become old hat and boring to play.
Let's create a list: the top 101 worst tunes/songs of ITM!
So what are all y'alls' favorite 'worsts'?
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by fiddlerdan
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
If you consider yourself an artiste, and you'll only lower yourself for money, you're in the wrong line of work. I honestly think you "artistes" are ruining this stuff. This is folk music, not elite music, go do your more important stuff somewhere else.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by Tadhg mac Saoirse
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
There is an old saying:
"He who pays the piper, calls the tune"
... or in thius case, the fiddler ....
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/346
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by Henk Bos
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Sorry Dan - I just don't see the point of this discussion.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by Kenny
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Are we getting to good to play the entry tunes that most people like and wanted to learn?
The old favourites will still be around long after the artists have faded!
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by Lone rover
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Kenny--The point is, are there tunes that you would rather not play for whatever reason. And what would be the reason(s)?
In some cases, it might not even be for a reason other than that you just happen to not like the tune.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by fiddlerdan
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
What about songs that have been done to death, or are stereotypes of the Irish--Danny Boy, When Irish Eyes Are Smiling, McNamara's Band, My Mother's Wedding Day come to mind.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by fiddlerdan
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
The most popular tunes on the listings here are the tunes most people no longer play, They're good starter tunes, they catch the ear, but later one sees them as, perhaps, cliched.
I will not sing The Fields of Athenry, but occasionally someone else sings it and, reluctantly, I accompany.
It's the saccarhine sentiment I abhor, PLUS it is not traditional, therefore no better than Percy French. Traditional songs have something extra, honed through all those years of transmission, variation, and the fact of selection, that they are still being sung.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
I listened to Martin Hayes playing Britches Full of Stitches in a concert and it was incredible. Is the point of this to make a list so that learners will know how wretched their repertoire is? You sound like a lot of fun in a session, mate.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by fidkid
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Tadhg mac Saoirse--
I'm not the same person I was 25 years ago. My take on playing certain tunes likewise has changed. I once had disdain for playing certain 'show'/'showoff' tunes. For lack of a better term I used the word 'artiste'.
Now that I'm older, I no longer have that self-righteous feeling about playing certain tunes. I guess you could say my mindset is more wrapped around being an 'entertainer'.
If the customer is paying, and they want sh*te,
I say serve it to 'em-- but on a silver platter.
It's all in the presentation!
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by fiddlerdan
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Personally I'll play something I don't like if playing for fun with my mates but I will not play something I don't like for money.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by bogman
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
fidkid--
I never intended to demean anyone's repertoire. What I meant was not everybody likes every single tune under the sun. There's gotta be some tunes/songs out there that don't exactly do it for ya.
I can remember the first session I attended and was grateful to be allowed to play the only two Irish tunes I knew at the time: Irish Washerwoman, and Drowsy Maggie. I got to share and contribute in that session and for that I was grateful. But as I progressed and learned more tunes, IWW and DM became jumping off points. I wanted to play the newest (trad) tunes I learned from the last session; as a necessary result the tunes I 'cut my teeth on' got played less frequently.
When they do come around at sessions I actually enjoy playing them precisely because they're not played as much any more.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by fiddlerdan
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Dan,
We've had this and similar discussions several times before and I, like many others, used to worry about it.
Of course, there's many songs or tunes which I wouldn't choose to "start" but I'd probably be happy to join in with just about any of them. If I really can't be bothered on a particular night, I can pretend to have a rest , go to the loo, or the bar. or whatever.
I certainly wouldn't start moaning about it , i.e. "Oh no, not that one again" or try to "poo poo" another player or singer for playing it.
Again, I might well have been guilty of this in the past but nowadays I feel that life is too short.
After all, a session is as good as the players and singers who attend and the repertoire reflects the tastes and ability of those present. If the odd tune or song (tired, naff, or just one you don't like) slips into the session, so be it. If it's a good night, no-one will worry one way or the other.
As "bogman" says, there's obviously a big difference between "choosing" to do something for a performance or even leading a set than "joining in" during a session..where you should really be giving your mates support.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by Johnny Jay
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Maybe a better thread title would be " tunes/songs you prefer not to play". If someone comes to a session and can only play old standards it would be very rude to sit out these tunes.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by bogman
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Sorry for the cross post there, well said Back for a while.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by bogman
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
If a tune is 'done to death', it is usually because it is a damned good tune. If you played it 1000 times before, a couple more isn't going to hurt you Put your heart into it every time.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by gam
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Of course, there's always some tunes which we don't play.....because we can't! At least, not as well as we should.
Sometimes, it's because they don't appeal sufficiently for us to learn them properly OR there might even be a tricky bit which we can't quite master. So, we will often...unjustly... dislike a particular tune for that reason.
I'm sure everyone has been guilty of this..even although they'll not all admit it.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by Johnny Jay
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Fair enough, all. It's the eye rolling and making a big show of not playing along because it's beneath you when someone starts up Cup of Tea that strikes me as head-in-ass. Truth be told, I could go a long time not playing Hole In the Hedge with Seamus Cooley's, but everyone else seems to love it so I play along. Time and time again.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by fidkid
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
OK bogman, point well taken. For the sake of argument, are there tunes that you would 'prefer' not to play?
Back for a while, are there any that you'd choose not to start?
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by fiddlerdan
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
You'll not catch me out that way....
There's actually "any number" I'd choose not to start but not necessarily because I didn't like them.
e.g.
I might not feel confident that I know them well enough yet although I could easily "join in"
They've been played already in another set or I know another player(s) will play them later. In some sessions, certain sets are often associated with a certain player so we often allow them the courtesy of starting them off. It all depends where you are, of course.
Some tunes are more obscure and might not be known to everyone there. So, it's not always appropriate to include them at a particular sessions..though sometimes you can.
And so on.
Basically though, surely there's enough tunes you really like that you don't need to think about which ones to exclude?
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by Johnny Jay
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
It sounded like a good idea at the time dept....
Well, the discussion thread of 'what's your favorite tunes' seems to have been done already.
Thought that by putting a new twist on the above might delve a bit into why we like what we like in a tune and by extension why we don't like what we don't like in a tune.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by fiddlerdan
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Well the thread might not have achieved what the OP intended, but as a newbie and total beginner I find it reassuring that so many of you have a positive attitude towards those tunes that we beginners will no doubt choose to play, even if they are, to you, 'old hat'.
So, if that's all this thread has managed then at least it was something!
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by knithryn
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Dan, we've also had the "don't like" threads too. Even I started one many moons ago..
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/3531
Most of us older hands here have grown out of compiling lists though....
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by Johnny Jay
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
By "Olders hands".... I mean, of course, in terms of posting to this forum as opposed to playing experience.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by Johnny Jay
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Of course if you let on that you can't stand a particular tune everyone will launch into it as soon as you walk in the door. That's what I'd do, anyway.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by RichardB
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Every note of the second part of Brenda Stubberts is like a knitting needle being jabbed into my ear. I hate it so much that I don't even like the Altan version. I used to like it but now it's heavily soiled.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by bogman
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Re "Brenda Stubbert's"
) and I forced myself to master it to avoid looking liking a fool.
I recall that particular tune being very difficult to learn at the time. in fact, it didn't seem to have that much of a tune at all.
Mind you, that was about 17 years ago and I found things much harder then.
We had to learn it at an ALP class in Edinburgh(Nigel, if you're reading this..it was called that back then
Of course, I grew to love the tune eventually and shall continue to do so...if only to justify all the effort at the time.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by Johnny Jay
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
I find Cup of Tea to be difficult to play. of the 300 to 500 reels that i've either learned or dabbled with, I have the most difficulty playing the opening phrase of Cup of Tea. Of course i can play an Em tetrachord up and down. but that opening line is more than just a scale, it has a particular rhythm that it must be played with.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by Earl Cameron
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Must remember to make a list of all the list threads...
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by fiddlerdan
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
For me, a lot of tunes I 'choose not to start' are because I can't for the life of me remember how they begin.
A great many tunes have similar if not exact same few first notes.
I call them 'jump start' tunes, because as soon as someone else starts the tune, I think "oh yeah, I know this one" and jump right in.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by fiddlerdan
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
I was at a session for the first time and it was a round robin. Being young and ignorant, I wanted to choose something everyone knew so I chose 'Irish Washerwoman'. Everyone looked like they got a bad taste in their mouth. We played it and next time around, they skipped me.
So - Irish Washerwoman.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by Fiddlephilia
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
The King Of The Fairies. I've said this before - I hate that tune. Nothing to do with its name or associations: if it was called Cheryl Cole With Nothing On I'd still think it was a grindingly dispiriting bellyache of a dirge. Even if it was played by someone pretty good. It's usually played appallingly badly, as if everybody else loathes it too but are only playing it because someone felt he / she had to start it. But this does not increase group solidarity, it merely aggravates solitary misery. The tune sags like an overloaded hulk, stationary and wallowing heavily at the same time somewhere in mid-ocean, as I say goodbye to the world and go into dead time until it has finally crunched into another continent and I can wake up and begin life again.
No doubt a blizzard of YouTube versions will follow this...
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by nicholas
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
wow, one of my favorite tunes.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by Earl Cameron
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
I can't think of any tune or song I know that I wouldn't join in on. Now, songs and tunes I don't know, I consider it a public service not to play along with them.
Not sharing a tune with someone is impolite in my mind, kind of like refusing offer of a meal or drink, or standing there looking at them like a bug when they try to shake hands.
I guess if someone came into the session, and started song after song and tune after tune without giving others a chance, I might balk at some point. But that is because they are being impolite.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by AlBrown
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
"The King of the Fairies ... a grindingly dispiriting bellyache of a dirge"
When it's played at dirge speed in a session, I couldn't agree more, and that is because the slow speed is quite out of context. The slow speed is intended for step dancers so that they can get all their intricate footwork in place.
But play TKOTF at about double that speed with a bit of swing (which would right mess up said intricate footwork!), and it comes to life.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
There are tons of tunes I wouldn't waste my breath on. I'm starting to get old now and my breath is valuable so I don't want to waste it. Also, it gives learners and newbies a chance to strut their stuff. These tunes are not necessarily The Kesh and other opportunistic commensals of such a pandemic. They may be nicely structured tunes but if they don't balance a set nicely I may sit it out. And there are things like The Lonesome Boatman, which, previously I might have said I wouldn't stoop to pandering to punters' requests by attempting it, but in reality I don't have it off as well as the Fureys or some of the 3-trick wonder Fureys-wannabees who know that version plus 2 other tunes (maybe a couple more) as their whole repertoire of Irish trad music. Yes, well I'm snobby enough to not want to be that class of player.
No doubt the denizens on here will be queuing up to avenge me for speaking my mind but do I care? Take it or leave it, that's what I do and think and also why my input here has of late shrunk. Ning Ning Ning. Water off a duck's back.
# Posted on December 21st 2009 by Rudall the time
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
When I was younger and in my prime, I entertained the fantasy that I would learn as many tunes as possible so I could go to a session and actually *know* every tune the session heavys were playing.
This way when the players started straying into the more arcane and little known versions of tunes, say
Seamus McBlankity's setting of Pidgeon Poop On The Gate taken from the 1938 wire recording they got from a field trip to the Library of Congress last summer, I'd be ready and could play the tune with them.
My eyes were opened to the utter folly of this mindset when at the Lark In The Morning Music Camp back in 1985.
A famous fretless banjo player attending the camp told of a similar story. He came to the realization that with all the zillions of tunes out there, life is just too short to learn tunes you don't like.
# Posted on December 21st 2009 by fiddlerdan
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Absolutely will not play? I am not an absolutist by nature. However, I have not played any ITM tunes in nearly a year. The cause does not lie in the tunes, themselves, it lies in me. When it comes to ITM, I have lost my creativity. Nothing feels fresh. Everything I have played I have overplayed.
At the moment I am enamored of country music, mostly of Texas origin; some bits of Kentucky bluegrass as well, but not much.
# Posted on December 21st 2009 by BarryM
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
I can't think of a single tune in the Irish traditional repertoire I would not play in a session. And I've found, over the years, that nearly every tune that at first may have struck me as naff eventually reveals some redeeming quality about itself once I've spent some time inside it.
That said, I prefer tunes with sinuous melodies that take unexpected turns, and I like tunes that are modally multipersonalitied or ambiguous. But even the tunes that are barely one evolutionary link above scales, arpeggios, or drone noise (e.g., Concertina Reel, Jig of Slurs) can be fun to play--at least on the physical level of swinging the bow into the pulse of the tune. And they also lend themselves to ad libbing beyond the edge a bit just to see if anyone else is paying attention.
Besides, the longer you play this music, the easier it is to play the allegedly naff tunes on the fly, without ever taking time to work them up and retain them. A bit like sitting in on an Old Timey jam.....
# Posted on December 21st 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
That anecdote about Martin Hayes (above) covers it. A creative
muso with good command of the instrument can make any tune
sound beautiful and fresh. The problem is that the great majority
of us session proletariat either don't have the creative talent, don't
have the technique or usually both.
Even you if do have the chops, it's probably wasted in a noisy
session, so yeah, I guess in a session it's better to skip 'Kesh'
and others like that.
# Posted on December 21st 2009 by Hup
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Of tunes mentioned already.
I always like Brenda stubberts when I hear it played, and there are some pretty different takes on it locally. But I've never played it myself. Quite happy to listen.
Cup of Tea I play all the time even though I've never liked it. I quite like the first part, the other parts are ok. But they just don't fit together into a single tune, sounds like some crap stitched up melody. I play it all the time though as there a are a few mates likely to start it up.
Never cared very much for the kesh, just learned it 'cos it was always played. I didn't get tired of it, never liked it. Some tunes that don't appeal as lisening music can be fun to play with other people, perhaps only come to life when played with others.
I wouldn't sit out a tune I knew because I didn't like it.
I might sit one out for other reasons: enough people playing, enjoying listening etc. Some of my favourite tunes I've never learned or seriously tried to play 'cos I like hearing them so much and I'd rather listen to them without my banjo trampling all over them. e.g. Sean sa ceo e.g. Green fields of glentown. I often ask one of my mates to play these on whistle (or flute for Ssc, flute not so good for glentown). When he plays them I just want to listen.
- Chris
# Posted on December 21st 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
crap stitched up *medley*
# Posted on December 21st 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
I want to hear Martin Hayes do "The Rakes of Mallow."
# Posted on December 21st 2009 by grego
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Are any of you speaking about this from the perspective or viewpoint of a "backer" or backup musician/sideman as to which tunes you prefer to play or not to play?
There are some tunes which I prefer not to play because the chord progression is uninteresting or I think the tune sounds better unaccompanied. In that case, I just sit there quietly and listen.
# Posted on December 21st 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
As a backer I dont like tunes in C; Or scot skinner stuff -time for the bar;
As opposed to tunes I just love to hear there is a differance.
I think its important to differentiate between dont play cause you like and cannot add anything and dont play because you dislike.
# Posted on December 21st 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Good point, bazouki dave, I often sit out when accompanying, not because I don't like the tune, but like you say, I don't think I have anything to add. Every accompanist should sit out here and there, it lets the session breath.
# Posted on December 22nd 2009 by AlBrown
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
bazouki dave & AlBrown--
I initially started this thread as a 'tunes I wont'/don't like to play, but it's morphed into a 'tunes I choose/prefer not to play.
The point of sitting out because you cannot add anything to the tune and sitting out to let the session breathe are totally new takes on the reason for not playing. Excellent points.
# Posted on December 22nd 2009 by fiddlerdan
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Not in this music, but there are a couple jazz tunes I don't really like to play. My band mates know which ones they are.
Last Valentines Day, I put one of them on a set list at a hotel gig we were on, and the guys really lit up. It was funny to see their reaction. It was like I just told them they were getting out of prison early or something. Then they thought I was joking, but I said that I thought about what they said the last time they asked to play it and that I was being wrongheaded about it all.
we had a really good playing of it, too, so it just goes to show that if you give some tunes half a chance good stuff can happen anyway
# Posted on December 22nd 2009 by Nate Ryan
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Fauxcelt - if the chord progression is uninteresting, maybe that's when you have to do something more interesting rhythmically.
Ever heard a bodrhan-player say he didn't like a tune because the chord progression was uninteresting ?
I think I agree with you about Scott Skinner though - hey, it's not even Irish anyway, we don't have to talk about that here.
# Posted on December 22nd 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
"hey, it's not even Irish anyway, we don't have to talk about that here."
Surely session/trad music is all types, not just Irish?
I love some irish music, and absolutely hate some of it. There are some Irish tunes that just go on and on with no real tune or rhythm that are just boring. Scottish music has far more bounce, more rhythm, more syncopation, and some of it is totally fantastic. Again, there are other Scottish tunes I'm not so keen on. Also love Cape Breton style music. But I'm Scottish, living in Scotland, so ultimately Scottish music is *mine" in a way Irish isn't. Not so keen on Scott Skinner stuff either though!
# Posted on December 22nd 2009 by Cathf
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
"Some Irish tunes that just go on and on with no real tune or rhythm that are just boring". Examples please ?
"Scottish music has far more bounce... etc" Crap. It all depends who's playing it.
# Posted on December 22nd 2009 by Kenny
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Cathf brings up the s word, therebye reminding me that I generally dislike syncopation. It is very rare that I could be bothered to learn a syncopated tune. There seems to be a big glut of modern tunes which have syncopation as their main hook. Usually strikes me as a bit of a gimic and there appears to be very little else to the tune.
Everyone else around here seems to love the funky modern though.
- chris
# Posted on December 22nd 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Yes, Guernsey Pete, your suggestion to do something rhythmically is a good one and I will do that sometimes if I want to and feel like it.
Both of the instruments which I play (piano and bass) can be percussive depending on how you are playing or what you are playing.
# Posted on December 22nd 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Is she on the right website?
"There are some Irish tunes that just go on and on with no real tune or rhythm that are just boring."
# Posted on December 22nd 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
...and I'm coming in way late here, missed all the fun, so my apologies if it's already been said above but...
Ask not what the tune does for you, ask what you can do for the tune!
...but for crying out loud we've played The Kesh twice already today. I know you just got here, but we've been playing all day and the last thing we want to do is trot that sucker out AGAIN.
# Posted on December 22nd 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
SWFL Fiddler--
It's been, what--45 minutes? Maybe we could run through Butterfly , Jig of Slurs and Drowsy Maggie one more time just for her? :-p
# Posted on December 22nd 2009 by fiddlerdan
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
I like the comment from Miss Lonelyhearts. Just the same here is an alternative viewpoint I found;
". . .It makes me wonder why I learned them too. I guess I was young and just learned them all so I could keep playing. I warn people away from doing that now. Just learn the tunes that really take your fancy, the really special ones. And then you'll have no bother remembering them."
# Posted on December 22nd 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Random, there's a lot of wisdom in that perspective. I tend to actively learn tunes that appeal to me. Tunes I find less appealing but that other people play at the sessions I go to eventually crop up under my fingers anyway, just by sheer dint of hearing them over and over. So I can play them without sitting down to learn them.
# Posted on December 22nd 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
""Some Irish tunes that just go on and on with no real tune or rhythm that are just boring". Examples please ?"
To be honest, I don't know. I only ever ask names of tunes I like, so I can learn them. The ones that are played regularly that I don't like I just tend to head for the bar.
I'm not into creating rivalry between Scots and Irish music - I love both, and in many cases it's hard to tell the difference from just the tune. But I learned in North East Scotland and Shetland style, so I guess that style of playing and that music will probably always be my favourite at sessions.
So I was just intregued by the comment that only Irish music was "on topic" here. Surely any musician is just interested in good music? Who cares where it comes from? Half the time we don't even know for sure, or it's the same tune with a different name anyway.
# Posted on December 23rd 2009 by Cathf
Re: tunes/songs you will not play
Seems to me there are lots of reasons tunes get "over popular," and one important one is because they are cracking good tunes. Kesh, Butterfly, Fanny Poer and whatever are that popular at least in part because they can stand being played badly and still survive. I used to tell students that one way to judge really great music is that it can survive really horrid arrangements. I think the same is true of the "standard" session tunes. Yes one can get tired of them, but they always have something to offer if we dig for it.
# Posted on December 23rd 2009 by cboody