The other day a friend pointed out that the "proper" pronunciation of Comhaltas is something more like "Coaltas", and indeed the CCE site offers a pronunciation very like that.
As I recall (don't live in Ireland now), the pronunciation of Irish by real Irish speakers is an unholy mishmash of radical regional and local variations, in comparison with which a Geordie lass might sound like the Queen. I seem to recall hearing pronunciations in which the "-mh-" does not really disappear. Or is my memory playing tricks again?
Of course I do realize that most Irish people have no interest in speaking Irish, so I might just be remembering hearing people who were getting it wrong, but I don't think so.
Anyone know?
Your friend has it right.... hope you didn't lose too much money on that one. I find that the biggest confusion with this word is where the word is pronounced "ceol"tas where the word ceol in irish means music. There are three main dialects in Ireland broadly the north the west and the south and for sure it's often quiet unholy too.
Correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I think that when "mh" is placed after a vowel in the middle of a word it casn have the same effect on the vowel as a fada- therefore the o is pronounced as a "long" o. Therefore (Coal-tas) would be about right. The word comhaltas means something like "organization" (I think) and is not a reference to ceol (music). Ceol is pronounced (Kyoel) because of the slender vowel e next to the c.
That doesn't follow. Surely the Irish are the Welsh that *could* swim. Unless the Irish evolved from amoeba in complete isolation from the rest of the human race.
I have often heard people rant about the ignorance of those that say "KYOHL-tas". This may well be true for the majority. But I would wager that it began as a droll piece of word-economy on the part of Irish speakers; why say "Comhaltas Ceoltoirí Éireann" when you can encapsulate the whole concept in one (albeit fabricated) word, "Ceoltas"? "CCE" sounds too jargony and computer-agey; "Comhaltas", pronounced in the proper manner, just translates as "membership" or "association", so using that word on its own assumes a certain inside knowledge, giving the organisation freemason-like connotations (Some would say, not so far from the truth. ). "Ceoltas", on the other hand, in corporates two elements of two relevant words: "musicians" and "association". The third bit, "na hÉireann" is implied by the fact that it's in Irish - it's hardly going to be referring to Nicaraguan or Armenian musicans.
Correction: The third bit is just "Éireann", not "na hÉireann". (I don't know *why* that is the case - I'm not an Irish speaker, reader or writer. But cf. Breathnach's "Ceol Rince na hÉireann").
How to pronounce Comhaltas
How to pronounce Comhaltas
The other day a friend pointed out that the "proper" pronunciation of Comhaltas is something more like "Coaltas", and indeed the CCE site offers a pronunciation very like that.
As I recall (don't live in Ireland now), the pronunciation of Irish by real Irish speakers is an unholy mishmash of radical regional and local variations, in comparison with which a Geordie lass might sound like the Queen. I seem to recall hearing pronunciations in which the "-mh-" does not really disappear. Or is my memory playing tricks again?
Of course I do realize that most Irish people have no interest in speaking Irish, so I might just be remembering hearing people who were getting it wrong, but I don't think so.
Anyone know?
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by Alex Wilding
Re: How to pronounce Comhaltas
Your friend has it right.... hope you didn't lose too much money on that one. I find that the biggest confusion with this word is where the word is pronounced "ceol"tas where the word ceol in irish means music. There are three main dialects in Ireland broadly the north the west and the south and for sure it's often quiet unholy too.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by Afrocelt
Re: How to pronounce Comhaltas
I thought the queen WAS a geordie. (I remember someone on the BBC saying 'the queen, a tatey...)
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by gam
Re: How to pronounce Comhaltas
Thats right its Comhaltas (Coal-tas ) Ceolteoiri (Kyole-tory) Éireann. Not Ceol-tas as most people say.
# Posted on December 20th 2009 by iwerzon
Re: How to pronounce Comhaltas
Correct me if I'm wrong about this, but I think that when "mh" is placed after a vowel in the middle of a word it casn have the same effect on the vowel as a fada- therefore the o is pronounced as a "long" o. Therefore (Coal-tas) would be about right. The word comhaltas means something like "organization" (I think) and is not a reference to ceol (music). Ceol is pronounced (Kyoel) because of the slender vowel e next to the c.
# Posted on December 21st 2009 by Murph
Re: How to pronounce Comhaltas
What's the Irish for "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"
# Posted on December 21st 2009 by Rudall the time
Re: How to pronounce Comhaltas
TV: What's the Irish for "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?"
I don't know. Ask someone with pin-head.
# Posted on December 21st 2009 by Alex Wilding
Re: How to pronounce Comhaltas
Dunno.
The closest the internet offers is welsh:
"faint angylesau all dawnsia acha 'r ben chan bin?"
and after all, the irish are only the Welsh who couldn't swim.
# Posted on December 21st 2009 by showaddydadito
Re: How to pronounce Comhaltas
"the irish are only the Welsh who couldn't swim."
That doesn't follow. Surely the Irish are the Welsh that *could* swim. Unless the Irish evolved from amoeba in complete isolation from the rest of the human race.
# Posted on December 21st 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: How to pronounce Comhaltas
I have often heard people rant about the ignorance of those that say "KYOHL-tas". This may well be true for the majority. But I would wager that it began as a droll piece of word-economy on the part of Irish speakers; why say "Comhaltas Ceoltoirí Éireann" when you can encapsulate the whole concept in one (albeit fabricated) word, "Ceoltas"? "CCE" sounds too jargony and computer-agey; "Comhaltas", pronounced in the proper manner, just translates as "membership" or "association", so using that word on its own assumes a certain inside knowledge, giving the organisation freemason-like connotations (Some would say, not so far from the truth.
). "Ceoltas", on the other hand, in corporates two elements of two relevant words: "musicians" and "association". The third bit, "na hÉireann" is implied by the fact that it's in Irish - it's hardly going to be referring to Nicaraguan or Armenian musicans.
# Posted on December 21st 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: How to pronounce Comhaltas
Correction: The third bit is just "Éireann", not "na hÉireann". (I don't know *why* that is the case - I'm not an Irish speaker, reader or writer. But cf. Breathnach's "Ceol Rince na hÉireann").
# Posted on December 21st 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: How to pronounce Comhaltas
Strange never had a problem with pronouncing it
Taking Comhaltas to Newcastle maybe
# Posted on December 21st 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: How to pronounce Comhaltas
bazouki dave - come on, "KYEWLtas te Newcassel..!"
# Posted on December 22nd 2009 by nicholas