I'm a relatively recent joiner on this site and even I have noticed how bad some of the threads have become. And also conflicting advice. Some say learn from the dots/ABCs only because then you just get the pure drop of the tune so then you can do your own variations on top of the bare bones. Others say you must listen to recordings and spend your life going to sessions to hear how real players do it.
I have noticed both sets of advice coming from some of the same people, long serving (or should I say this website is long serving to them...and long suffering, to their windbag tendencies.)
Am I alone in these observations?
Hi Claire, I use to try answering questions and asking some of my own but I don't contribute much anymore because of some of the same reasons.
I enjoy hearing other people's thoughts and opinions but it bothers me when someone tells you their “ways“ or their ideas are the only right ones. I don't like reading posts where someone is bashing what someone else has said.
I still come back to read and post occasionally but much less than I used to because I am bothered by the attitudes of some posters.
I am sure we will hear lots of that sort of thing in response to this post.
Not at all, Claire. I love it when they lose track of their opinions though, it's solid gold soap. BTW (RANDOM) do you know any tradsters who also cut crystal? I am looking for another hobby jobby and I need to hear some 'real' gossip.
Free choice hasn't been denied here either, and there's often the bit of slagging or things going way off topic. But, on the whole, we're adults, you can choose to take what makes sense to you and leave what you consider nonsense behind, or if it tickles you, get a chuckle out of it and then move on. Sometimes we take ourselves far too seriously, or we take people in ways other than they intend. The fault can be either side of the exchange, or both. You can read into words in print so much, especially when there's none of the body language to identify a laugh or slag from a nasty put down. How we choose to take a thing is our free will, and sometimes it's just sane to leave something quickly behind if you find it upsetting or disagreeable. Don't give it power by getting bothered about it too much.
There are some great people who contribute on here, and sometimes there's good contributions that aren't delivered as clearly or as nicely as some of us might like. Yes, there's rude people and the ego centric in any activity that includes a diverse group of people, but why make it worse by choosing to focus on what to you is worst or unclear or contradictory, by your interpretation of it?
If you ignore the "musts" and "onlies" and other absolutes, and just take posts as opinions, then it's easier to let things run off like water off the proverbial duck's back.
You'll see conflicting or at least divergent advice because different approaches work for different people.
I do know what you mean, but diddley music arouses passions, and that's probably better than if it didn't arouse anybody's passions at all. There's good advice a-plenty hereabouts. The skill lies in finding it and in being able to weed out the "contributions" of charlatans, one in particular in recent years. Jig and his many alter egos shall remain nameless. Good people will sometimes be waylaid by their perceived need to confront these wastes of space, hence the spats that spoil threads. Thing is, it's terrible to sit here in silence and read rank bad advice being doled out to unsuspecting newcomers by people who don't know what they're talking about. That's what a lot of the spats are about. One of the perils of the internet. And just ignore the ones about whether sessions are performances and all will be sweetness and light.
Almost forgot ~ dots ~ some folks who suffer short term memory problems do find solace in having dots on hand to help them remember. But, they still learn best by ear. The dots remain nothing more than the same old skeleton of recognition, minus the rest of the thing that is required for true life, and the electric jolt of passion from the player. That skeleton is like a shadow, suggesting form. It requires understanding and passion to give that form substance...
I think this site is still a wonderful place to come for advice, especially because you can get a lot of diverse input, not just one "expert's" view.
Conflict and confrontation are a part of life. In large part, it's how we learn and progress. If you listen only to people with whom you already agree on everything, then you're not likely to learn anything new. Problems arise mainly when someone tries to promote their own opinions over others by insulting or ridiculing the others. And when they refuse to consider other ways of understanding the topic at hand.
Actually, the "session vs. performance" debate is a good case in point. At first, I thought sessions were *supposed* to be utterly unlike performances. Hashing this out with Phantom Button and Bodhran Bliss and others helped clarify for me that some people--just as passionate as anyone about this music--enjoy sessions that have aspects of performance about them. That helped me see a broader spectrum of approaches to sessioning, but it also helped me understand much more clearly and specifically why I prefer sessions that aren't performance oriented at all. I think there's room in this music for both extremes and everything in between.
Wading into sometimes heated discussions can be a great way to learn....
Ceolachan, you raise a good point. People here participate in different roles, much like at a meatspace session. For the most part, the more experienced folks who've been sessioning and playing this music a long time come here for the craic with other folks who know what it's all about. Some of these veterans also try to answer questions and provide insights that they gained through long experience and from their mentors.
Less experienced players come here often to learn--to ask questions, suss out the music, technique, or etiquette, and to suss out how to join in the craic without getting their head lopped off. They're "waiting for someone to show them the way."
The habit of slagging makes for some good craic, but it can also lead to the dark side.
So there's bound to be a pecking order, and some friction now and then to sort that out. Just like at pub sessions. What's cool is how humble most everyone is, even the most experienced and "accomplished" players among us. And that leads to great opportunities to learn, no matter how experienced you already are.
The site's had its' share of rows, resulting in deep scar tissue. Off the top of my head I can think of 4 members who I would dearly love to hear their commentary ~ 5 . . . I'm loosing count already.
Anyway, wonderful, endearing, humourous; now infrequent, members who have made other choices. They are missed.
True Will! Some of those so-called bad threads (I typoed threats) often contain multiple humble, humble, humble responses.
mmm, you go for a walk in the woods. The birds singing, sun shining, water sparkling, flowers and pine fragrant in the warm breeze, and you get a little mud on your boots. Do you let the mud spoil your appreciation for everything else?
There we go again, Mr Shaw, with his petty slander. If my advice is so bad then how come Kevin Burke and I agree substantially on all the main points of argument I have had on this site.? Thats not an appeal to authority, thats broad general agreement, and we both find the controversy generated here over these matters quite Ridiculous. We both favour scales, metronomes, arpeggios etc etc . The fact is that I am simply shouted down. There is no argument. Just Ignorance and aggression. Its got to a point when views that stand against the general gestalt simply get mocked with a mixture of lies innuendo, character assassination and similar underhand tricks. Mob Rules.
Have a nice cuppa, Will. Ask Kevin to post his thoughts if he likes. Trouble is, I wouldn't want the poor chap to be caught between two stools, what with you claiming his friendship and his long-term friend Ms Lonelyhearts posting here too. I know whom I'd rather believe! Don't get me wrong, Ms Lonelyhearts, by the way. I'm not calling YOU a stool!
Did I say I miss a few members who rarely drop by? If absence makes the heart grow fonder then familiarity . . .
What Mob? What snakes (many humble pardons to any San Franciscan currently in exile)? There is no escaping this ~ even the most tumultuous of battles bring out 2 constants.
1 - numerous humble pleas from our many gracious members
2 - Mr. Keith's personal filter
ceol, I once lived in a (former) pig barn. Someone informed me the concrete floor was for easily hosing it out. ;)
I've cited Kevin Burke as the source of some great insights that I passed along here--credit where credit is due. Just as he mentioned players like Bobby Casey when I took lessons from him. But I'd never pretend to know what Mr. Burke or anyone else thinks about the discussions here, or assume that he's in agreement with anything anyone's posted here. WIll Evans is coming awfully close to speaking for Mr. Burke, and I find that very troubling.
There are people who like the music on this site as well, and people who will do their best to answer your question. You'll get at least one sarcastic or unhelpful remark with every post, that's the nature of the beast. It's just something that has to be dealt with. I've had some very good advice from this website... never from those who think themselves amusing or who are quick to pass judgements, but from Irish players who enjoy playing and are happy to offer advice. Don't let the curmudgeons of The Session bring down your opinion... this site is a good resource and you can get some good help here.
Also, for the record... if dots help you, go for it, but you should prioritize the ear. They can be really helpful, but shouldn't be essential. Or at least, that's what I think.
I'm not calling YOU a stool! Where's me tin o' Duff? Have a nice cuppa Your limo is awaiting your escape. Mob Rules. The site's had its' share of rows, resulting in deep scar tissue. Off the top of my head... Where's me tin o' Duff? skeleton of recognition, minus the rest of the thing that is required for true life, off the proverbial duck's back windbaggery is the craic if it tickles you dots over ears If absence makes the heart grow fonder then familiarity awfully close to speaking to the white courtesy phone Where's me tin o' Duff? caught between two stools an appeal to authority, thats broad general agreement, a mixture of lies innuendo, character assassination solid gold session vs. performance reat way to learn conflicting advice.
Many thanks for the replies from nice people trying to defend this site. But even on this thread I've seen a few flippant remarks. What I mean by how bad some threads are, is like the recent one asking about credit cards and spelling it Ergent. If you can't play a tune don't try starting it up, similarly if you can't spell a word don't try putting it on the internet, it just looks ridiculous and brings the whole tone down. I come on here partly to escape from morons not to have to listen to them yet again. So what do we do? Just put up and shut up with loudmouths and ignoramuses?
The nice subtle clever people say nothing and keep their heads down for fear of offending the vile masses who read the sun and vote tory and drive huge cars everywhere causing sealevels to rise. Dictatorship of the moronitariat comes to the session.org. Yeah, well you can keep it
Windbags are everywhere and virtually unavoidable. It's some sort of genetic disposition. They must expel their hot air before they go POP. It's a very messy business when they burst!
Claire... unnecessary. This is about the music. I don't like the loudmouths and ignoramuses any more than you do, but this is the internet, for better and for worse. I've found The Session to be a good resource if you can deal with the windbags who are there. I know it's annoying sometimes, but it doesn't help to battle. I still go The Session when I have a query, and it gets answered if someone's reading who knows the answer. It's as simple as that. No one can make everyone on the internet be respectable, make sense, or spell properly. But anger against it will only incite more anger. And--despite what some might make you think--this site is really about the music, and the music isn't about anger or argument.
Sixty years after we attained nation-hood we fought a huge ugly bloody war to begin to right the wrongs of the previous four centuries of European enslavement of Africans on the shores of old Columbia. To compare America to Hitler is Wind baggery at it's best.
Just have to say...I'm kinda new here too. I love having my morning cup of coffee here at the session. Between the wealth of information, kind people, and eggheads having a bad hair day I laugh (alot) and learn ( even from the "windbags"). I'm old enough to not let jerks wreck my good time anymore and new enough to be thoroughly entertained by the goings on. Mostly I love the tunes. Hope you stay for the good stuff.
Yeah Claire, things get ugly here from time to time, but it seems to me that your approach and general attitude are hindering not helping.
I'll certainly agree that there are the usual quota of windbags and cranks here as there are in any group (if you want to get really beaten up try posting on groups catering to concert band directors).
But any time I've asked a civil question I've received civil answers along with the flippant and the windy. My feeling is there is plenty of wheat in the chaff. I don't know about barns and pig stys.
variations on the same topics, dominated by the same personas.
after a hiatus, you can pop in and almost anticipate when the fiddler or harmonica player will chime in on the discussion and which of their notes will clash. these tunes (e.g. the Dots_vs_Ears Polka) have all been played before, and its not a matter of how the tune goes but whether--on the third go-around, so-and-so will drag out the "Americans play with the wrong swing" variation or whether it will be "ornaments are/aren't fundamental to the tune" or a host of other possibilites, hopefully not all at once.
so yeah, when newbies come with a question, its often an old windbaggy tune that already has a history.
Firstly: Claire Sweeney, welcome to life. I don't know how much experience you've had of it, but you'll find that most of the time, there's more than one opinion. If you've already noticed that, then I think it's also worth pointing out that the differing opinions may be differing for reasons more subtle than "right vs. wrong", "good vs. evil", "Claire Sweeney vs. not Claire Sweeney".
Secondly: you're bringing up points and comparisons and examples that are utterly, shockingly absurd. You're comparing the people who argue and disagree with you on thesession.org to "the vile masses who read the sun and vote tory and drive huge cars everywhere causing sealevels to rise". Actually, you're not even comparing them, you're saying that that *is* who they are.
"Dictatorship of the moronitariat comes to the session.org." Really? So now you are comparing this Irish music website to a dystopian Marxist regime?
And then - as though you hadn't already been stupid and insulting enough - you bring the Holocaust and black American slavery into it. This is acceptable?! And you are the one complaining about "flippant remarks" and ignorance?!
Actually, I would like you to back yourself up on that particular post: "try telling that to 6,000,000 jews, europe, 1933-45 or 20,000,000 blacks USA, 1790-1850. Your current wealth is based on that stupidity."
Try telling what? And why? What exactly was your line of reasoning before typing this? What current wealth, and what stupidity?
And more to the point, what has it to do with Irish music?
In an adolescent sort of way Claire sounds like she is angry at the world. There's plenty to be angry about but this is probably not the place to explore her grievances.
C'mon lads, she's just proving her own point, from her opening salvo: "I'm a relatively recent joiner on this site and even I have noticed how bad some of the threads have become. "
Subduction zones are quite simple really. As the ocean crust of one tectonic plate is pushed (subducts) underneath a continental plate, water contained in the rocks is driven off by heat and pressure into the rocks above. This lowers their melting point (fractional meting) and the less dense lava rises to the surface, and is the reason these zones are often the sites of very active and violent vulcanism. The andesitic volcanoes that form in these regions are often very violent and can explode without warning and cause massive devastation.
Ask ten experienced musicians for advice, and you'll get ten different pieces of advice in ten different ways. Unfortunately a bunch of mediocre, inexperienced "musicians" including me flock to this website and compete to give you "useful" advice.
The thing is, take everything on this board with a grain of salt.
This is not a place to come to trash others or seek therapy
"The nice subtle clever people say nothing and keep their heads down for fear of offending the vile masses who read the sun and vote tory and drive huge cars everywhere causing sealevels to rise. Dictatorship of the moronitariat comes to the session.org. Yeah, well you can keep it..." ~ Claire Sweeney
(The above, and attendant other shight, doesn't even work as a wind-up, if that were the intention, it's just daft, idiotic, immature and humourless.)
"I'm a relatively recent joiner on this site and even I have noticed how bad some of the threads have become." ~ Claire Sweeney ~ If your intention was to do-unto-others, well, you've produced one of the worst I've ever stumbled into. I suspect Jeremy will eventually retire this, it's that awful, meaning your contributions to it... But, to conclude and move on, as I see from your reaction it would be a waste of time to even have fun here ~
Flippant remark? ~ ~ Judgement by the Sweeney has been passed and we are all condemned to hell it seems, if all that has been deemed true and damnedable by Ms. Sweeney were true... Even for the few that might be the case, I wouldn't condemn them for their possessions or thier political or religious bent, or not.
I regularly misspell, and I'm glad if someone takes notice, worse when I do in in ABC notation, or at least I feel the guilt, and I'm ready to acknowledge my bluffs, which increase if I've lost sleep recently, as has happened over the worry for folks I care deeply about, I love, family we choose, friends, and family by blood.
With every community there will be the anti-social lot, who see everything as a plot against them, who react to every little hiccup that isn't to their liking, who will rail on about injustice and cruelty, and who ~ more often than not ~ get even nastier in their reaction to what they don't like about a thing.
If you really hate this website and feel you don't fit, or don't want to be part of it anymore, because you choose to amplify the negative over the positive, well, it's your vision, not mine, not my way of seeing it. If you really are unhappy, then just let Jeremy know you don't want to be a part of it anymore. He's ameniable to such requests. You could then just lurk, if you chose, or go off and join some other site and find things to complain about there. As it stands, instead of you're trying to raise a useful discussion, your judgements were already made and you've just come here to trash us all. So be it. With such an attitude your absence won't be missed.
Like any session, if you don't like it, go find another, or start your own. Your negativity won't be missed. It only adds to the things you complain about. It seems you're just as able to dish it out, meaning shight. And, it isn't even worth a laugh of an upset, like any other dross that slips out here, including my own...
'Duff' is a beer brand in fantasy... 'Tin' and 'tinny' is a can of beer...
So, at least one sentence of educational content... Here's hoping you move on with your sweeping judgements and acid, but hopefully not to burn others, dear Claire... Sadly there are bitter twisted people in the world, but this isn't the place for them to seek therapy or release, though they sometimes do find their way here.
Be a skeptic Hiro, that is what you describe. Cynicism eats at a person, is a debilitating disease to avoid... No one should suffer that, including Claire Sweeney, who is obviously infected and potentially infectious. Avoid at all cost the germs of that. Be a skeptic, not a cynic...
The variety of histories that can twist a person and lead to bitterness and cynicism are many. While such injustice may deserve our pity, and a little understanding, that doesn't mean the results should be tolerated... Some personalities can be so toxic that they are best avoided, best left to the experts, medication, the legal system or natural selection...
Now I'm off to enjoy some music, and a long walk in the countryside, well bundled up against the cold... It's a see your own breath kind of day, but the sun is out, lovely. I also know the music will shine, even the rough bits...
Done here, and this is soon to go into the digital void I suspect...
As I set out I'm glad to see this thread is still digging its own grave. It won't be missed, not by me anyway. Now to get down to the real business of all this ~ making music, doing it live...
Best of health to you all, everyone, even the curmudgeons and miscreants, and to all a good night.
A non sequitur (pronounced /ˌnɒnˈsiːkwɨtər or ˌnɒnˈsɛkwɨtər/) is a conversational and literary device, often used for comical purposes (as opposed to its use in formal logic).
Wow, this is a pointless thread and the OP and her subsequent posts were totally out of line. Compare thesession.org to slavery and the holocaust? Give me a f*ckin' break.
She's young and she's angry about a lot of things and those things all kind of get mixed up together. I can remember being a bit that way in my youth and maybe others here do too.
“God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.” Reinhold Niebuhr
I'm relatively new to this site, and I'm just beginning to 'see' with opening eyes some of the games that are played on these discussion posts. Most often there are legitimate requests for information by newbies, requests for advice on topics related the grand and great ocean of culture, tunes and craic that is ITM.
But I'm starting to catch on that there are also those out there for whom this board is nothing more than a way to incite controversy. They post an innocuous question/topic which sucks well meaning responses by all sorts of folk with good advice into the discussion. But in actuality they're getting their jollies by pulling everyone's chains. We, who take the questions/topics seriously get pulled into useless arguments/re-hashments of old themes while the protagonists/provacateurs are ROTFLOL at our expense.
I guess Jeremy either needs to install a BS filter on new thread posts to weed out the Scheisse, or WE need to look a little more closely at new thread topics to see if someone in cyberspace isn't trying to goad those of us who seriously look to these boards for advice, pointers, information, and true discussion into petty fighting and name-calling.
[sound of phone ringing....sound of phone being picked up]
"911 music police, is this an emergency?"
"Uh, yes officer. We've got a huge fight going on here, it's a real free-for-all down here. Better send your paddy wagon, it's turning into a donnybrook. Wait, it's escalating now, I see weapons and daggers being drawn, you better bring out the riot police with maybe a SWAT team backup."
"Your address sir?"
"Uh, let's see....yeah, here it is, it's http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/23344.
Please hurry, it's getting ugly."
"I've dispatched several units and they're on their way."
"Thank you officer."
[sound of police car sirens wailing in the distance, growing nearer and louder...]
"Claire Sweeney" - history on the "session", 1 discussion posted on 13th December. Current status on 13th December = "Suspended until 28th December". That must be a record of some sort.
And for what it's worth, there are still plenty of people here willing to give good advice. You've got to learn who to ignore.
Just now found this thread and I believe it's a great and wonderful thing, one I'll likely print out and treasure. Both before and after the originator went ballistic there was a fine exchange of good ideas, much like thesession as a whole, but maybe a lower percentage of chaff. Reading this exchange really clarifies who here should be listened to. (help please, grammarians) Thank you, C.
Mosty folks have been good to me, helpful, with the rare bit of burn from someone swinging a torch of flame. I suspicious and mistrusting of someone someone who decides to trash the whole site and everyone here, windup or not. Something's wrong beyond the exaggerated claim, something is wrong with them. Awareness of that imbalance and injusitice, the attack, can sometimes be avoided, ignored, and I will move on and forget it, but hat doesn't mean I am not tempted to rise to the defense, as I foolishly have here. Verging on blowing a fart back on this flame and burning my own ass in the process, I admit losing it a bit, but hey, what's new there? It's not like my passions don't get out of control now and then.
It doesn't surprise me that the kind of caustic flame this thread carried, Ms. Sweeney piling it on thick and completely unbalanced, would raise my ire. She's trashing everyone, including folks I consider friends who I've seen regularly help others, myself included, with consideration and care. I don't expect everyone to agree, where would a though go then if it weren't allowed to be viewed from different perspectives, even the daft and the surreal. I like a lot of folks who come here regularly, and I've had some valued help from people here. That includes direction when I lose it and get a bit unbalanced myself. I enjoy the banter and some of the silly stuff too, including just lurking and watching what unfolds without taking part. Some folks, like Claire here, get nasty, but who knows what really causes someone to go off the deep end like this? Life can be damned hard, and sometimes the greatest difficulty is seeing our own foolishness...
Anyway, for Claire, and this is by no means a complete list or necessarily recommendations, but a few other options that could be considered, depending on ones instrument of choice ~
& more will be found in the 'Links' on site here, or doing your own searching online...
Some have forums, some do not, some are heavily policed, some are not. I'm told that if you want a site where there's virtually never any flaming, and where there are plenty of virtual hugs, there's plenty online to choose from, if not having anything at all to do with Irish music or trad music of any variety. If there's one extreme, there's bound to be the opposite and endless others in between and beyond. There are also a number of Christian music sites too, something for everyone, whatever their bent. Best of luck in finding your niche...
Someone suggested we all had some history akin to this, in our youth, flaming and trashing everything and everyone. I'm glad to say, no, I never was this judgmental or nasty when I was a younger...
Whew! I must be tired, wasted ~ some minor corrections? ~
Mostly folks have been good to me 'here' ~ 'someone' should only be there once ~
next paragraph ~
'myself included' means they've also helped me, and I'm grateful for that, appreciative... There's some great folk on site here, great characters ~ diverse and interesting... And yes, there's been a few that get vile from time to time, somehow deriving some queer pleasure from being nasty... Bless em...
No, it would be too much work to clean it all up, spelling mistakes and all...
I think Kenny and possibly one or two others have been the only posters so far in this thread to question the authenticity of the OP.
She(possibly he) is obviously a troll and I had my suspiciions as soon as I read the name.
There is obviously more than one Claire Sweeney in the world and some of them might be interested in Irish music.
However, it just seemed too much of a coincidence to me.
But to the original question - I don't post (tho still read) simply because it's got boring. Even the arguments have got boring. That's all. In fact, it was boring in 2002.
Banjo folk, you all know that if this Claire wants civility, real or not, banjo land ain't the place for her. So I spared her that extreme. Meself, some of my best friends have been poisoned by the twang...
And on the concept of banning, suspending, flogging etc...
If this is a virtual pub... well there have been a few times when the landlord has lost patience and turfed us all onto the street. And it was there we all carried on the argument until blows were exchanged or vows of undying love.
If it bothers you, make sure you exchange email addresses. Then you can carry on. In fact, sad to say, I suspect there is a monstrous ghostly dark-internetty thing already of that sort.
But more practically - a ban that allows offensive parties to contact each other would be more true to the pub analogy.*
And while I'm ranting! Why does a 'woman' allegedly get twice the suspension of a 'man' allegedly? Glass ceilings?
Why am I typing this utter sh*te?
*(And at least we're allowed to smoke and swear outdoors.)
especially such a thin and inaccurate complaint (I am not sure if Ive spelled that right, but as of yet have never had someone slag me for spelling on here, so not too worried.)
See, it's minus something Fahrenheit here, and windy and snowy, and my fingers are sore from playing, and 'c' is skunked, so there's nothing better to do than chirp away amongst the pumpkinated pixels.
And last of all... this is the LAST place I would go to for 'advice'. If 'Claire' or anyone else for that matter is reading, then the old saying "if you need to ask, you'll never know" comes to mind.
There's no use of any advice or guidance for those short of awareness or humility, especially with regards to their own needs or ignorance... Me, I don't have too much trouble there, as I'm well aware of how little I know and how much I'd like to understand... Life is far too short, and then we sleep ~ zzzzzzzzz...
Well I'm one of the biggest pig-headed b*ast*ards on the planet but I've ever so quietly picked up a lot of good advice here. I'm simply not going to admit it, that's all.
Biggest problem with T'interweb is the lack of non-verbal communication. (Sticking fingers up at the screen does NOT count, nor does smashing the mouse, thumping the computer screen or sighing deeply before walking away.)
For Claire Sweeny to be deemed idiotic enough to be barred for over a month!! .. Impressive , even by an idiots standard..
Ha Ha Ha keep the historical reference for the psuedo intellectual discussions with drunk people. Yu will come off more favourably. Alomost put money on u being in óSF of S.D.L.P youth. If not you should join, you even have the ill referenced marxism!! what could be more fitting?
Just now found this thread and I believe it's a great and wonderful thing, one I'll likely print out and treasure. Both before and after the originator went ballistic there was a fine exchange of good ideas, much like thesession as a whole, but maybe a lower percentage of chaff. Reading this exchange really clarifies who here should be listened to. (help please, grammarians) Thank you, C.
Brilliant justjim. I love how there's something to be learned from every situation. That's how I did it as well.
In fact, if Mr. C or Mr. Ms. Lonelyhearts ever disappears from this here mustard board for too long, I annoy the beejeebers out of them via email until they come back, muttering about that eejit fiddling reels under the palm trees.
There must be a missing chunk to this thread for the original poster to have been temporarily suspended--Jeremy often excises the worst of the discussions. Myself, I come here for ideas, to share what I have learned, and to engage in some banter. Sometimes it gets nasty, but I usually try to ignore those discussions, even though it is hard sometimes not to weigh in. Learning from this site is like drinking from a firehose--the good and bad advice that could take months and years to learn by visiting sessions all comes at you at the speed of light! Certainly it take some effort to separate the wheat from the chaff, and it is often not for the faint of heart, that is for sure!
Look, if it weren't for irrational, sulking threads and the irrational, sulking comments they draw, Mustardia would all too quickly devolve into a place where people shared thoughts and advice about aspects of ITM. Icy and bleak.
I am a member of a couple other forums which are strictly moderated. Any one daring enough to get into off topic silliness finds their posts deleted. Those places get a bit dull. Thesesh gets the odd heated flame war and no shortage of eejits giving bad advice (like everywhere else on the planet) but at the end of the day, it's a f*cking brilliant forum. It's the only one I spend a substantial amount of time on. What's also cool is that this is such a small community and in a way thesesh.org has infiltrated into the wider, real world of Irish traditional musicians. Significant numbers of Irish trad musicians are aware of this site; they either lurk the discussion boards or at least use the tunes and recordings database. I know a fair few posters in real life and often meet people who lurk but they know the discussions boards and even scarier, they know who I am. I've had so many conversations where some totally random musician I have just met for the first time at a session has been like, "so yoooooou're thesilverspear." Uh, great. That's somewhat disturbing, actually, in a weirdly cool way. LOL. It's a small f*cking world.
No, I was indulging in off-topic silliness. I was trying to tell you of my antipodean proclivities. I have this conviction that I have Aussie ancestors. They had convictions too.
(Shhhhh! Don't shout too loudly, but Tolpuddle is actually in Dorset. The Dorset Independence Campaign might call round to see you at home with pitchforks and blazing torches!)
This thread is starting sound like a certain one on melnet!
Not a place to come for advice any more
Not a place to come for advice any more
I'm a relatively recent joiner on this site and even I have noticed how bad some of the threads have become. And also conflicting advice. Some say learn from the dots/ABCs only because then you just get the pure drop of the tune so then you can do your own variations on top of the bare bones. Others say you must listen to recordings and spend your life going to sessions to hear how real players do it.
I have noticed both sets of advice coming from some of the same people, long serving (or should I say this website is long serving to them...and long suffering, to their windbag tendencies.)
Am I alone in these observations?
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by 'S dat you, O'Flibberty?
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
I doubt anyone here or anywhere else would recommend dots over ears....
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by ceolachan
But, if you know of a case where that wasn't true, give us a quote and link... I for one am always interested in the bizarre...
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Hi Claire, I use to try answering questions and asking some of my own but I don't contribute much anymore because of some of the same reasons.
I enjoy hearing other people's thoughts and opinions but it bothers me when someone tells you their “ways“ or their ideas are the only right ones. I don't like reading posts where someone is bashing what someone else has said.
I still come back to read and post occasionally but much less than I used to because I am bothered by the attitudes of some posters.
I am sure we will hear lots of that sort of thing in response to this post.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by anastasiadesroches
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Not at all, Claire. I love it when they lose track of their opinions though, it's solid gold soap. BTW (RANDOM) do you know any tradsters who also cut crystal? I am looking for another hobby jobby and I need to hear some 'real' gossip.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by fedorastain
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Free choice hasn't been denied here either, and there's often the bit of slagging or things going way off topic. But, on the whole, we're adults, you can choose to take what makes sense to you and leave what you consider nonsense behind, or if it tickles you, get a chuckle out of it and then move on. Sometimes we take ourselves far too seriously, or we take people in ways other than they intend. The fault can be either side of the exchange, or both. You can read into words in print so much, especially when there's none of the body language to identify a laugh or slag from a nasty put down. How we choose to take a thing is our free will, and sometimes it's just sane to leave something quickly behind if you find it upsetting or disagreeable. Don't give it power by getting bothered about it too much.
There are some great people who contribute on here, and sometimes there's good contributions that aren't delivered as clearly or as nicely as some of us might like. Yes, there's rude people and the ego centric in any activity that includes a diverse group of people, but why make it worse by choosing to focus on what to you is worst or unclear or contradictory, by your interpretation of it?
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
the windbaggery is the craic here - there are occasionally bits of useful information, but I tend to skim over those
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by airport
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
If you ignore the "musts" and "onlies" and other absolutes, and just take posts as opinions, then it's easier to let things run off like water off the proverbial duck's back.
You'll see conflicting or at least divergent advice because different approaches work for different people.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
I do know what you mean, but diddley music arouses passions, and that's probably better than if it didn't arouse anybody's passions at all. There's good advice a-plenty hereabouts. The skill lies in finding it and in being able to weed out the "contributions" of charlatans, one in particular in recent years. Jig and his many alter egos shall remain nameless. Good people will sometimes be waylaid by their perceived need to confront these wastes of space, hence the spats that spoil threads. Thing is, it's terrible to sit here in silence and read rank bad advice being doled out to unsuspecting newcomers by people who don't know what they're talking about. That's what a lot of the spats are about. One of the perils of the internet. And just ignore the ones about whether sessions are performances and all will be sweetness and light.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Nice posts, those last three...
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Almost forgot ~ dots ~ some folks who suffer short term memory problems do find solace in having dots on hand to help them remember. But, they still learn best by ear. The dots remain nothing more than the same old skeleton of recognition, minus the rest of the thing that is required for true life, and the electric jolt of passion from the player. That skeleton is like a shadow, suggesting form. It requires understanding and passion to give that form substance...
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
For those unable to take advice I guess that would be true...
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
~ you said "anymore" was it better in the beginning, Claire?
Or are you just referring to the 1st couple of years worth of discussions?
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
I think this site is still a wonderful place to come for advice, especially because you can get a lot of diverse input, not just one "expert's" view.
Conflict and confrontation are a part of life. In large part, it's how we learn and progress. If you listen only to people with whom you already agree on everything, then you're not likely to learn anything new. Problems arise mainly when someone tries to promote their own opinions over others by insulting or ridiculing the others. And when they refuse to consider other ways of understanding the topic at hand.
Actually, the "session vs. performance" debate is a good case in point. At first, I thought sessions were *supposed* to be utterly unlike performances. Hashing this out with Phantom Button and Bodhran Bliss and others helped clarify for me that some people--just as passionate as anyone about this music--enjoy sessions that have aspects of performance about them. That helped me see a broader spectrum of approaches to sessioning, but it also helped me understand much more clearly and specifically why I prefer sessions that aren't performance oriented at all. I think there's room in this music for both extremes and everything in between.
Wading into sometimes heated discussions can be a great way to learn....
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Not a place to come for advice anymore
Pink Floyd - Time
Where's me tin o' Duff?
Ticking away the moments that make up a dull day
Fritter and waste the hours in an off-hand way
Kicking around on a piece of ground in your home town
Waiting for someone or something to show you the way
Duh! ~
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by ceolachan
Yes, sorry Miss L, well put as usual... Back to me brew...
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Moi aussie...
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Ceolachan, you raise a good point. People here participate in different roles, much like at a meatspace session. For the most part, the more experienced folks who've been sessioning and playing this music a long time come here for the craic with other folks who know what it's all about. Some of these veterans also try to answer questions and provide insights that they gained through long experience and from their mentors.
Less experienced players come here often to learn--to ask questions, suss out the music, technique, or etiquette, and to suss out how to join in the craic without getting their head lopped off. They're "waiting for someone to show them the way."
The habit of slagging makes for some good craic, but it can also lead to the dark side.
So there's bound to be a pecking order, and some friction now and then to sort that out. Just like at pub sessions. What's cool is how humble most everyone is, even the most experienced and "accomplished" players among us. And that leads to great opportunities to learn, no matter how experienced you already are.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
The site's had its' share of rows, resulting in deep scar tissue. Off the top of my head I can think of 4 members who I would dearly love to hear their commentary ~ 5 . . . I'm loosing count already.
Anyway, wonderful, endearing, humourous; now infrequent, members who have made other choices. They are missed.
True Will! Some of those so-called bad threads (I typoed threats) often contain multiple humble, humble, humble responses.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Yeah, if you don't mind the stink and the shovellin', and I've cleaned a few barns out in my day, you can find pearls...
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by ceolachan
Actually, barns aren't nearly as bad as chicken coups and pig styes...
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
"chicken coups"
Really, in your part of the world, chicken drive around in coups? Or do you mean coups d'etat?
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
LOL at "threats." Yes, discussion threats is what some threads degraded into.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
No Chickens live in co-ops with the hippies
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Earl Cameron
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
mmm, you go for a walk in the woods. The birds singing, sun shining, water sparkling, flowers and pine fragrant in the warm breeze, and you get a little mud on your boots. Do you let the mud spoil your appreciation for everything else?
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Twisty
And no wonder.
There we go again, Mr Shaw, with his petty slander. If my advice is so bad then how come Kevin Burke and I agree substantially on all the main points of argument I have had on this site.? Thats not an appeal to authority, thats broad general agreement, and we both find the controversy generated here over these matters quite Ridiculous. We both favour scales, metronomes, arpeggios etc etc . The fact is that I am simply shouted down. There is no argument. Just Ignorance and aggression. Its got to a point when views that stand against the general gestalt simply get mocked with a mixture of lies innuendo, character assassination and similar underhand tricks. Mob Rules.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by piobagusfidil
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Have a nice cuppa, Will. Ask Kevin to post his thoughts if he likes. Trouble is, I wouldn't want the poor chap to be caught between two stools, what with you claiming his friendship and his long-term friend Ms Lonelyhearts posting here too. I know whom I'd rather believe! Don't get me wrong, Ms Lonelyhearts, by the way. I'm not calling YOU a stool!
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
I never read these discussions anymore ....
................. well, hardly ever .................
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by dogbox
Not the place to come for row any more
Did I say I miss a few members who rarely drop by? If absence makes the heart grow fonder then familiarity . . .
What Mob? What snakes (many humble pardons to any San Franciscan currently in exile)? There is no escaping this ~ even the most tumultuous of battles bring out 2 constants.
1 - numerous humble pleas from our many gracious members
2 - Mr. Keith's personal filter
ceol, I once lived in a (former) pig barn. Someone informed me the concrete floor was for easily hosing it out. ;)
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
I've cited Kevin Burke as the source of some great insights that I passed along here--credit where credit is due. Just as he mentioned players like Bobby Casey when I took lessons from him. But I'd never pretend to know what Mr. Burke or anyone else thinks about the discussions here, or assume that he's in agreement with anything anyone's posted here. WIll Evans is coming awfully close to speaking for Mr. Burke, and I find that very troubling.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Will Harmon
;)
Ms. Sweeney to the white courtesy phone.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Heh, yes, "Your limo is awaiting your escape."
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Maybe you're right that this place isn't for receiving good advice. It's a great place for giving *good* advice.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Threat between two stools?
Curious...
Hey Random, we once lived in a converted pig barn too, back in Cymru/Wales. It was lovely, as were the surroundings and wildlife...
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by ceolachan
Quoth the Raven ~
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by ceolachan
Damn, did you see that? It was a muntjack...
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
There are people who like the music on this site as well, and people who will do their best to answer your question. You'll get at least one sarcastic or unhelpful remark with every post, that's the nature of the beast. It's just something that has to be dealt with. I've had some very good advice from this website... never from those who think themselves amusing or who are quick to pass judgements, but from Irish players who enjoy playing and are happy to offer advice. Don't let the curmudgeons of The Session bring down your opinion... this site is a good resource and you can get some good help here.
Also, for the record... if dots help you, go for it, but you should prioritize the ear. They can be really helpful, but shouldn't be essential. Or at least, that's what I think.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Zazzaliss
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Here's some found poetry to keep it lit...
I'm not calling YOU a stool! Where's me tin o' Duff? Have a nice cuppa Your limo is awaiting your escape. Mob Rules. The site's had its' share of rows, resulting in deep scar tissue. Off the top of my head... Where's me tin o' Duff? skeleton of recognition, minus the rest of the thing that is required for true life, off the proverbial duck's back windbaggery is the craic if it tickles you dots over ears If absence makes the heart grow fonder then familiarity awfully close to speaking to the white courtesy phone Where's me tin o' Duff? caught between two stools an appeal to authority, thats broad general agreement, a mixture of lies innuendo, character assassination solid gold session vs. performance reat way to learn conflicting advice.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by fedorastain
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Many thanks for the replies from nice people trying to defend this site. But even on this thread I've seen a few flippant remarks. What I mean by how bad some threads are, is like the recent one asking about credit cards and spelling it Ergent. If you can't play a tune don't try starting it up, similarly if you can't spell a word don't try putting it on the internet, it just looks ridiculous and brings the whole tone down. I come on here partly to escape from morons not to have to listen to them yet again. So what do we do? Just put up and shut up with loudmouths and ignoramuses?
The nice subtle clever people say nothing and keep their heads down for fear of offending the vile masses who read the sun and vote tory and drive huge cars everywhere causing sealevels to rise. Dictatorship of the moronitariat comes to the session.org. Yeah, well you can keep it
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by 'S dat you, O'Flibberty?
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
what on earth is your tin o'duff? that most certainly means nothing to me, except making me feel slightly sick. Poetry? you're joking yeah?
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by 'S dat you, O'Flibberty?
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
It was Frank Zappa who said: "It's not getting any smarter out there. You have to figure out how to make the stupidity work for you."
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Like they say, "You get what you pay for"
The bad spellers are the least of the problem.
Windbags are everywhere and virtually unavoidable. It's some sort of genetic disposition. They must expel their hot air before they go POP. It's a very messy business when they burst!
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by leoj
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
try telling that to 6,000,000 jews, europe, 1933-45 or 20,000,000 blacks USA, 1790-1850. Your current wealth is based on that stupidity.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by 'S dat you, O'Flibberty?
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Claire... unnecessary. This is about the music. I don't like the loudmouths and ignoramuses any more than you do, but this is the internet, for better and for worse. I've found The Session to be a good resource if you can deal with the windbags who are there. I know it's annoying sometimes, but it doesn't help to battle. I still go The Session when I have a query, and it gets answered if someone's reading who knows the answer. It's as simple as that. No one can make everyone on the internet be respectable, make sense, or spell properly. But anger against it will only incite more anger. And--despite what some might make you think--this site is really about the music, and the music isn't about anger or argument.
Just my two cents. I'm out.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Zazzaliss
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Sixty years after we attained nation-hood we fought a huge ugly bloody war to begin to right the wrongs of the previous four centuries of European enslavement of Africans on the shores of old Columbia. To compare America to Hitler is Wind baggery at it's best.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by shanty
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
So you've shown your true colors and I'm no longer interested in your thread. FU
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by shanty
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Bring back the Muck!
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by fedorastain
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
shanty read toni morrison beloved then get off your high horse
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by 'S dat you, O'Flibberty?
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Just have to say...I'm kinda new here too. I love having my morning cup of coffee here at the session. Between the wealth of information, kind people, and eggheads having a bad hair day I laugh (alot) and learn ( even from the "windbags"). I'm old enough to not let jerks wreck my good time anymore and new enough to be thoroughly entertained by the goings on. Mostly I love the tunes. Hope you stay for the good stuff.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by janmarie
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Yeah Claire, things get ugly here from time to time, but it seems to me that your approach and general attitude are hindering not helping.
I'll certainly agree that there are the usual quota of windbags and cranks here as there are in any group (if you want to get really beaten up try posting on groups catering to concert band directors).
But any time I've asked a civil question I've received civil answers along with the flippant and the windy. My feeling is there is plenty of wheat in the chaff. I don't know about barns and pig stys.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by cboody
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
LOL, leave it to the mustard board for someone to start a thread about the incivility that abounds here, only to set fire to her own thread.
Life expectancy of this thread? Nil.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
variations on the same topics, dominated by the same personas.
after a hiatus, you can pop in and almost anticipate when the fiddler or harmonica player will chime in on the discussion and which of their notes will clash. these tunes (e.g. the Dots_vs_Ears Polka) have all been played before, and its not a matter of how the tune goes but whether--on the third go-around, so-and-so will drag out the "Americans play with the wrong swing" variation or whether it will be "ornaments are/aren't fundamental to the tune" or a host of other possibilites, hopefully not all at once.
so yeah, when newbies come with a question, its often an old windbaggy tune that already has a history.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by polkageist
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
hey miss lonelyhearts, anything going on for decemberween?
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by polkageist
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
House sessions for sure, polkageist, but only if we have a reason, like visitors from out of town.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Firstly: Claire Sweeney, welcome to life. I don't know how much experience you've had of it, but you'll find that most of the time, there's more than one opinion. If you've already noticed that, then I think it's also worth pointing out that the differing opinions may be differing for reasons more subtle than "right vs. wrong", "good vs. evil", "Claire Sweeney vs. not Claire Sweeney".
Secondly: you're bringing up points and comparisons and examples that are utterly, shockingly absurd. You're comparing the people who argue and disagree with you on thesession.org to "the vile masses who read the sun and vote tory and drive huge cars everywhere causing sealevels to rise". Actually, you're not even comparing them, you're saying that that *is* who they are.
"Dictatorship of the moronitariat comes to the session.org." Really? So now you are comparing this Irish music website to a dystopian Marxist regime?
And then - as though you hadn't already been stupid and insulting enough - you bring the Holocaust and black American slavery into it. This is acceptable?! And you are the one complaining about "flippant remarks" and ignorance?!
Actually, I would like you to back yourself up on that particular post: "try telling that to 6,000,000 jews, europe, 1933-45 or 20,000,000 blacks USA, 1790-1850. Your current wealth is based on that stupidity."
Try telling what? And why? What exactly was your line of reasoning before typing this? What current wealth, and what stupidity?
And more to the point, what has it to do with Irish music?
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Joe CSS
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
In an adolescent sort of way Claire sounds like she is angry at the world. There's plenty to be angry about but this is probably not the place to explore her grievances.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by leoj
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
C'mon lads, she's just proving her own point, from her opening salvo: "I'm a relatively recent joiner on this site and even I have noticed how bad some of the threads have become. "
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Where's Dodger when you need him...
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by gam
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Interesting use of the word 'bad' as I have not laughed so much in some time
I see jig is name dropping again .
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
I'm a real newbie here, but I think you all rose to the bait on that one.
And for Claire, well - calling people windbags is a sure way to get shot at.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by knithryn
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Subduction zones are quite simple really. As the ocean crust of one tectonic plate is pushed (subducts) underneath a continental plate, water contained in the rocks is driven off by heat and pressure into the rocks above. This lowers their melting point (fractional meting) and the less dense lava rises to the surface, and is the reason these zones are often the sites of very active and violent vulcanism. The andesitic volcanoes that form in these regions are often very violent and can explode without warning and cause massive devastation.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Sugarfoot Jack
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Ask ten experienced musicians for advice, and you'll get ten different pieces of advice in ten different ways. Unfortunately a bunch of mediocre, inexperienced "musicians" including me flock to this website and compete to give you "useful" advice.
The thing is, take everything on this board with a grain of salt.
Hope this advice helps!
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by slainte
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
It seems I'm becoming a real cynic.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by slainte
This is not a place to come to trash others or seek therapy
"The nice subtle clever people say nothing and keep their heads down for fear of offending the vile masses who read the sun and vote tory and drive huge cars everywhere causing sealevels to rise. Dictatorship of the moronitariat comes to the session.org. Yeah, well you can keep it..." ~ Claire Sweeney
~ Judgement by the Sweeney has been passed and we are all condemned to hell it seems, if all that has been deemed true and damnedable by Ms. Sweeney were true... Even for the few that might be the case, I wouldn't condemn them for their possessions or thier political or religious bent, or not.
(The above, and attendant other shight, doesn't even work as a wind-up, if that were the intention, it's just daft, idiotic, immature and humourless.)
"I'm a relatively recent joiner on this site and even I have noticed how bad some of the threads have become." ~ Claire Sweeney ~ If your intention was to do-unto-others, well, you've produced one of the worst I've ever stumbled into. I suspect Jeremy will eventually retire this, it's that awful, meaning your contributions to it... But, to conclude and move on, as I see from your reaction it would be a waste of time to even have fun here ~
Flippant remark? ~
I regularly misspell, and I'm glad if someone takes notice, worse when I do in in ABC notation, or at least I feel the guilt, and I'm ready to acknowledge my bluffs, which increase if I've lost sleep recently, as has happened over the worry for folks I care deeply about, I love, family we choose, friends, and family by blood.
With every community there will be the anti-social lot, who see everything as a plot against them, who react to every little hiccup that isn't to their liking, who will rail on about injustice and cruelty, and who ~ more often than not ~ get even nastier in their reaction to what they don't like about a thing.
If you really hate this website and feel you don't fit, or don't want to be part of it anymore, because you choose to amplify the negative over the positive, well, it's your vision, not mine, not my way of seeing it. If you really are unhappy, then just let Jeremy know you don't want to be a part of it anymore. He's ameniable to such requests. You could then just lurk, if you chose, or go off and join some other site and find things to complain about there. As it stands, instead of you're trying to raise a useful discussion, your judgements were already made and you've just come here to trash us all. So be it. With such an attitude your absence won't be missed.
Like any session, if you don't like it, go find another, or start your own. Your negativity won't be missed. It only adds to the things you complain about. It seems you're just as able to dish it out, meaning shight. And, it isn't even worth a laugh of an upset, like any other dross that slips out here, including my own...
'Duff' is a beer brand in fantasy... 'Tin' and 'tinny' is a can of beer...
So, at least one sentence of educational content... Here's hoping you move on with your sweeping judgements and acid, but hopefully not to burn others, dear Claire... Sadly there are bitter twisted people in the world, but this isn't the place for them to seek therapy or release, though they sometimes do find their way here.
Oh yes, and a smilie ~
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Be a skeptic Hiro, that is what you describe. Cynicism eats at a person, is a debilitating disease to avoid... No one should suffer that, including Claire Sweeney, who is obviously infected and potentially infectious. Avoid at all cost the germs of that. Be a skeptic, not a cynic...
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by ceolachan
This is not the place to come to seek therapy
The variety of histories that can twist a person and lead to bitterness and cynicism are many. While such injustice may deserve our pity, and a little understanding, that doesn't mean the results should be tolerated... Some personalities can be so toxic that they are best avoided, best left to the experts, medication, the legal system or natural selection...
Now I'm off to enjoy some music, and a long walk in the countryside, well bundled up against the cold... It's a see your own breath kind of day, but the sun is out, lovely. I also know the music will shine, even the rough bits...
Done here, and this is soon to go into the digital void I suspect...
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Fascinating stuff.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Choonz
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
As I set out I'm glad to see this thread is still digging its own grave. It won't be missed, not by me anyway. Now to get down to the real business of all this ~ making music, doing it live...
Best of health to you all, everyone, even the curmudgeons and miscreants, and to all a good night.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
A non sequitur (pronounced /ˌnɒnˈsiːkwɨtər or ˌnɒnˈsɛkwɨtər/) is a conversational and literary device, often used for comical purposes (as opposed to its use in formal logic).
Oh, I'm sorry - I was looking for group therapy.
Cheers.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Piece
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Wow, this is a pointless thread and the OP and her subsequent posts were totally out of line. Compare thesession.org to slavery and the holocaust? Give me a f*ckin' break.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
She's young and she's angry about a lot of things and those things all kind of get mixed up together. I can remember being a bit that way in my youth and maybe others here do too.
“God, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference.” Reinhold Niebuhr
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by johndsamuels
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
I'm relatively new to this site, and I'm just beginning to 'see' with opening eyes some of the games that are played on these discussion posts. Most often there are legitimate requests for information by newbies, requests for advice on topics related the grand and great ocean of culture, tunes and craic that is ITM.
But I'm starting to catch on that there are also those out there for whom this board is nothing more than a way to incite controversy. They post an innocuous question/topic which sucks well meaning responses by all sorts of folk with good advice into the discussion. But in actuality they're getting their jollies by pulling everyone's chains. We, who take the questions/topics seriously get pulled into useless arguments/re-hashments of old themes while the protagonists/provacateurs are ROTFLOL at our expense.
I guess Jeremy either needs to install a BS filter on new thread posts to weed out the Scheisse, or WE need to look a little more closely at new thread topics to see if someone in cyberspace isn't trying to goad those of us who seriously look to these boards for advice, pointers, information, and true discussion into petty fighting and name-calling.
[sound of phone ringing....sound of phone being picked up]
"911 music police, is this an emergency?"
"Uh, yes officer. We've got a huge fight going on here, it's a real free-for-all down here. Better send your paddy wagon, it's turning into a donnybrook. Wait, it's escalating now, I see weapons and daggers being drawn, you better bring out the riot police with maybe a SWAT team backup."
"Your address sir?"
"Uh, let's see....yeah, here it is, it's
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/23344.
Please hurry, it's getting ugly."
"I've dispatched several units and they're on their way."
"Thank you officer."
[sound of police car sirens wailing in the distance, growing nearer and louder...]
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by fiddlerdan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
"Claire Sweeney" - history on the "session", 1 discussion posted on 13th December. Current status on 13th December = "Suspended until 28th December". That must be a record of some sort.
And for what it's worth, there are still plenty of people here willing to give good advice. You've got to learn who to ignore.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Kenny
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
"You come here to avoid morons" You must be f##ken crazy.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Burnt Nial
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Just now found this thread and I believe it's a great and wonderful thing, one I'll likely print out and treasure. Both before and after the originator went ballistic there was a fine exchange of good ideas, much like thesession as a whole, but maybe a lower percentage of chaff. Reading this exchange really clarifies who here should be listened to. (help please, grammarians) Thank you, C.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by justjim
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Mosty folks have been good to me, helpful, with the rare bit of burn from someone swinging a torch of flame. I suspicious and mistrusting of someone someone who decides to trash the whole site and everyone here, windup or not. Something's wrong beyond the exaggerated claim, something is wrong with them. Awareness of that imbalance and injusitice, the attack, can sometimes be avoided, ignored, and I will move on and forget it, but hat doesn't mean I am not tempted to rise to the defense, as I foolishly have here. Verging on blowing a fart back on this flame and burning my own ass in the process, I admit losing it a bit, but hey, what's new there? It's not like my passions don't get out of control now and then.
It doesn't surprise me that the kind of caustic flame this thread carried, Ms. Sweeney piling it on thick and completely unbalanced, would raise my ire. She's trashing everyone, including folks I consider friends who I've seen regularly help others, myself included, with consideration and care. I don't expect everyone to agree, where would a though go then if it weren't allowed to be viewed from different perspectives, even the daft and the surreal. I like a lot of folks who come here regularly, and I've had some valued help from people here. That includes direction when I lose it and get a bit unbalanced myself. I enjoy the banter and some of the silly stuff too, including just lurking and watching what unfolds without taking part. Some folks, like Claire here, get nasty, but who knows what really causes someone to go off the deep end like this? Life can be damned hard, and sometimes the greatest difficulty is seeing our own foolishness...
Anyway, for Claire, and this is by no means a complete list or necessarily recommendations, but a few other options that could be considered, depending on ones instrument of choice ~
Fiddle
http://www.fiddlehangout.com/
http://www.fiddleforum.com/fiddleforum/index.php
http://www.stringsmagazine.com/
http://www.stringsmagazine.com/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=forum;f=6
Whistle
http://www.chiffandfipple.com/
Flute
http://www.firescribble.net/flute/index.html
http://www.theflow.org.uk/
http://irishflute.podbean.com/
Bodhran
http://www.bodojo.com/
Mandolin
http://www.mandolincafe.com/
http://www.mandolin.org.uk/index.php
Melodeon
http://info.melodeon.net/
Guitar
http://www.acguitar.com/
Uilleann Pipes
http://www.pipers.ie/
Accordion
http://accordionist.org/cms//index.php?option=com_fireboard&Itemid=91
http://www.accordions.com/default.aspx
http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/user/phoebe/mosaic/accordion.html
Concertina
http://www.concertina.net/
In general ~
http://comhaltas.ie/
& more will be found in the 'Links' on site here, or doing your own searching online...
Some have forums, some do not, some are heavily policed, some are not. I'm told that if you want a site where there's virtually never any flaming, and where there are plenty of virtual hugs, there's plenty online to choose from, if not having anything at all to do with Irish music or trad music of any variety. If there's one extreme, there's bound to be the opposite and endless others in between and beyond. There are also a number of Christian music sites too, something for everyone, whatever their bent. Best of luck in finding your niche...
Someone suggested we all had some history akin to this, in our youth, flaming and trashing everything and everyone. I'm glad to say, no, I never was this judgmental or nasty when I was a younger...
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by ceolachan
Whew! I must be tired, wasted ~ some minor corrections?
~
Mostly folks have been good to me 'here' ~ 'someone' should only be there once ~
next paragraph ~
'myself included' means they've also helped me, and I'm grateful for that, appreciative... There's some great folk on site here, great characters ~ diverse and interesting... And yes, there's been a few that get vile from time to time, somehow deriving some queer pleasure from being nasty... Bless em...
No, it would be too much work to clean it all up, spelling mistakes and all...
Back to music...
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
http://ezfolk.com/forums/index.php?show=recent
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Ceol.
No banjo links.
Bad man.
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by Hugo Chavez
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
With all the banjo heads on this site why would you want advice from another site? ;)
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
I think Kenny and possibly one or two others have been the only posters so far in this thread to question the authenticity of the OP.
She(possibly he) is obviously a troll and I had my suspiciions as soon as I read the name.
There is obviously more than one Claire Sweeney in the world and some of them might be interested in Irish music.
However, it just seemed too much of a coincidence to me.
http://www.clairesweeney.net/
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by Johnny Jay
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
It's quite possible that she's also related to our old friend Tanya from a few years back...
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by Johnny Jay
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
I agree with Claire Sweeney and Back for a while.
But to the original question - I don't post (tho still read) simply because it's got boring. Even the arguments have got boring. That's all. In fact, it was boring in 2002.
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by mutatis mutandis
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Banjo folk, you all know that if this Claire wants civility, real or not, banjo land ain't the place for her. So I spared her that extreme. Meself, some of my best friends have been poisoned by the twang...
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
And on the concept of banning, suspending, flogging etc...
If this is a virtual pub... well there have been a few times when the landlord has lost patience and turfed us all onto the street. And it was there we all carried on the argument until blows were exchanged or vows of undying love.
If it bothers you, make sure you exchange email addresses. Then you can carry on. In fact, sad to say, I suspect there is a monstrous ghostly dark-internetty thing already of that sort.
But more practically - a ban that allows offensive parties to contact each other would be more true to the pub analogy.*
And while I'm ranting! Why does a 'woman' allegedly get twice the suspension of a 'man' allegedly? Glass ceilings?
Why am I typing this utter sh*te?
*(And at least we're allowed to smoke and swear outdoors.)
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by mutatis mutandis
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Claire scores one for a classic windup. What's the point posting a complaint about a group of people on their own discussion board.
Or did someone already point that out?>
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by SandyBottoms
B:
Banjo
http://www.banjohangout.org/
Bones
http://www.rhythmbones.com/
http://www.bonedrymusic.com/
Bouzouki
http://www.bouzoukispot.com/
http://irish-bouzouki.blogspot.com/
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
But to sum up, after my own contribution to the boredom quotient...
Actually, I can't be bothered.
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by mutatis mutandis
As wind ups go, if so ~
Any zither players out there?
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
especially such a thin and inaccurate complaint (I am not sure if Ive spelled that right, but as of yet have never had someone slag me for spelling on here, so not too worried.)
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by SandyBottoms
90
I was sure this would break 100...
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
ceolachan, I have a few quenas & I know you have picked up an ocarina before ;)
You're alright!
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by Ben Steen
92
92
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by ceolachan
Ocarina lover I am
O-C-A-R-I-N-A ~ mmmmmmmm!!!
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
I'm so wasted right now. I went to a session this evening and could hardly play a damned thing...
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice if it's about mental health
Yes, 95...
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice on math
Don't make fun of my addition...
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice about abstinence
Weird Italian pink fizz... Or is that pink fizz made by a weird Italian?
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Your "addition"??? Stateside, we call that a beer belly....
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
100!!! Congratulations Miss Lonelyhearts, you've won a case of weird Italian pink fizz and a holiday for one on a remote island in the Adriatic...
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
See, it's minus something Fahrenheit here, and windy and snowy, and my fingers are sore from playing, and 'c' is skunked, so there's nothing better to do than chirp away amongst the pumpkinated pixels.
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
And last of all... this is the LAST place I would go to for 'advice'. If 'Claire' or anyone else for that matter is reading, then the old saying "if you need to ask, you'll never know" comes to mind.
Night night all.
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by mutatis mutandis
Re: Not a place to come for a vice any more
Yes indeed...
Now I can go to bed and sleep without nightmares...
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
There are no remote islands in the Adriatic--everything is close to somewhere else....
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
"There's no use advising those who need advice."
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Not a bad place to come to for a vice
Yes, a long soak, if I don't slip under the suds and drown...
Pleasant dreams all, and to all a good night...
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
But I'll gladly take a month in Peschici....
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
There's no use of any advice or guidance for those short of awareness or humility, especially with regards to their own needs or ignorance... Me, I don't have too much trouble there, as I'm well aware of how little I know and how much I'd like to understand... Life is far too short, and then we sleep ~ zzzzzzzzz...
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Actually, there is a curious little island in the Adriatic they don't want anyone to know about...
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Well I'm one of the biggest pig-headed b*ast*ards on the planet but I've ever so quietly picked up a lot of good advice here. I'm simply not going to admit it, that's all.
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Hey Ocarina, alright.
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by Earl Cameron
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Ceolachan
no harp links?
(Grin)
Biggest problem with T'interweb is the lack of non-verbal communication. (Sticking fingers up at the screen does NOT count, nor does smashing the mouse, thumping the computer screen or sighing deeply before walking away.)
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by knithryn
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Get out of thesesh what you can - ignore the rest.
Its a fantastic resource and probably one of the best, but take it with a pinch of salt.
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by geoffwright
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
For Claire Sweeny to be deemed idiotic enough to be barred for over a month!! .. Impressive , even by an idiots standard..
Ha Ha Ha keep the historical reference for the psuedo intellectual discussions with drunk people. Yu will come off more favourably. Alomost put money on u being in óSF of S.D.L.P youth. If not you should join, you even have the ill referenced marxism!! what could be more fitting?
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Say goodnight to the folks, Gracie....
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Just now found this thread and I believe it's a great and wonderful thing, one I'll likely print out and treasure. Both before and after the originator went ballistic there was a fine exchange of good ideas, much like thesession as a whole, but maybe a lower percentage of chaff. Reading this exchange really clarifies who here should be listened to. (help please, grammarians) Thank you, C.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by justjim
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/23344#comment485485
Brilliant justjim. I love how there's something to be learned from every situation. That's how I did it as well.
In fact, if Mr. C or Mr. Ms. Lonelyhearts ever disappears from this here mustard board for too long, I annoy the beejeebers out of them via email until they come back, muttering about that eejit fiddling reels under the palm trees.
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
There must be a missing chunk to this thread for the original poster to have been temporarily suspended--Jeremy often excises the worst of the discussions. Myself, I come here for ideas, to share what I have learned, and to engage in some banter. Sometimes it gets nasty, but I usually try to ignore those discussions, even though it is hard sometimes not to weigh in. Learning from this site is like drinking from a firehose--the good and bad advice that could take months and years to learn by visiting sessions all comes at you at the speed of light! Certainly it take some effort to separate the wheat from the chaff, and it is often not for the faint of heart, that is for sure!
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by AlBrown
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Look, if it weren't for irrational, sulking threads and the irrational, sulking comments they draw, Mustardia would all too quickly devolve into a place where people shared thoughts and advice about aspects of ITM. Icy and bleak.
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
I am a member of a couple other forums which are strictly moderated. Any one daring enough to get into off topic silliness finds their posts deleted. Those places get a bit dull. Thesesh gets the odd heated flame war and no shortage of eejits giving bad advice (like everywhere else on the planet) but at the end of the day, it's a f*cking brilliant forum. It's the only one I spend a substantial amount of time on. What's also cool is that this is such a small community and in a way thesesh.org has infiltrated into the wider, real world of Irish traditional musicians. Significant numbers of Irish trad musicians are aware of this site; they either lurk the discussion boards or at least use the tunes and recordings database. I know a fair few posters in real life and often meet people who lurk but they know the discussions boards and even scarier, they know who I am. I've had so many conversations where some totally random musician I have just met for the first time at a session has been like, "so yoooooou're thesilverspear." Uh, great. That's somewhat disturbing, actually, in a weirdly cool way. LOL. It's a small f*cking world.
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Off topic silliness ...........I resemble that remark !
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
Moi aussie...
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Steve Shaw
What, Steve, transported from Cornwall just like those Tolpuddle Martyrs? How tragic and unfair.
# Posted on December 15th 2009 by oldstrings
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
No, I was indulging in off-topic silliness. I was trying to tell you of my antipodean proclivities. I have this conviction that I have Aussie ancestors. They had convictions too.
# Posted on December 15th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
(Shhhhh! Don't shout too loudly, but Tolpuddle is actually in Dorset. The Dorset Independence Campaign might call round to see you at home with pitchforks and blazing torches!)
This thread is starting sound like a certain one on melnet!
Chris.
# Posted on December 16th 2009 by Ebor_fiddler
Re: Not a place to come for advice any more
What you meant to say was that Tolpuddle is actually in England.
# Posted on December 16th 2009 by Steve Shaw