Some people on this site have funny ideas about what constitutes a backer - lots of people equate them with guitarists. I can't argue if that's your experience but...
In my view, people who back a tune are playing, on any instrument, a non-essential but complementary role, contributing some of the right notes (or chords) in the right places and helping things along a bit; they could not sustain the tune if other players dropped out. Nothing wrong in that because everyone does it at times.
I've played fiddle, banjo, mandolin and guitar, which is now probably my preferred instrument, but I don't regard myself as a backer any more than any other player at the session. In fact the expression is quite alien to me and, I suspect, other players there.
So, playing guitar, I would often start playing a set of tunes, flatpicking. The other musicians join in - some will know the tunes note for note, of course, and one or two will put in the notes they can as appropriate. This allows me to play chords and a rhythm that complements the bodhran player,perhaps, and switch between that and playing the tune as I wish. A friend playing the fiddle will spontaneously improvise certain phrases of the tune while most of the session players are playing the tunes absolutely straight.
So who is backing? Not me, the guitar player, since other players are laying down the bedrock of the the tunes allowing me the freedom to improvise. I can colour a tune with my choice of harmony or rhythm and influence the way other players interpret it and play themselves. Or I can play the tune pure and simple; it's my choice.
So probably no one is backing: people make a greater or lesser contribution according to their knowledge of the tunes and technical ability - or - everyone else is backing me?
When you choose to colour a tune with your choice of harmony or rhythm, I think most people would say you are "backing" and when you choose to play the tune pure and simple they would say you are, well, "playing the tune."
There's no judgement about skill or worth implied in the term "backing" (unless perhaps it is Tony McMahon who is using it.)
Some of my best friends are backers. I wish I could be a backer some day - it seems very difficult!
Quite right, Grego, most people would say that. I'm just choosing (with my tongue in my cheek, of course) to say you can look at it the other way round!
All you nice tune players kindly provide me the riff to work around!
I know two guitarists in town who I would trust to back me with a tune. One is myself, and the other rarely plays guitar but rather fiddle. You have to know the tune to "back" it. The backing is the tune. And just like tunes can be played in more than one way, so can the "backing." The "backing" of one tune may work for another but usually not.
Rob, the session prime directive of 'do no harm' is most often violated by novice whackers and strummers, of which there are a multitude. You're a lucky man if you've never been 'blessed' with one of them. Most of us are not so lucky and it's well discussed on here, which is probably what you're reacting to.
Yes, I have been lucky enough to realize when I was harming the session instead of helping it. I stopped playing temporarily when I realized this. I waited to start playing again when I felt that my "backing" would help instead of hurt.
And, yes, our local session has been "Blessed" with some novices who seemed to be doing their best to violate and damage the music making.
A really good backer is a treasure to be truly thankful for. Like having the opportunity to play with a great player of any instrument, it can raise your experience of the music incredibly. A backer with graceful solid rhythm can allow the melody players to rest comfortably in the rhythm and find something extraordinary in the melody. I could say, like a setting for a jewel but I don't think that would go far enough.
Albrown, I believe 'noodling' is what people do when they have only a vague notion of the tune and it's not what I am talking about..
SWFL, yes I certainly recognise what you're talking about!
My idea was merely a conceit - in the metaphysical sense - to look at common assumptions about guitar players as backers from a different angle. Lots of melody players take a backing role from time to time and some (who might not be so brilliant or are learners) do it almost all the time. Lots of guitar players (and mandolin/ mandola/ etc) must be able to switch from playing tunes and leading sets to putting in chords and rhythm.
When I do that I don't feel I am 'backing'. It's just a flight of fancy to think that about 4 fiddle players, a couple of flute players are backing me!
"A really good backer is a treasure to be truly thankful for. Like having the opportunity to play with a great player of any instrument, it can raise your experience of the music incredibly. A backer with graceful solid rhythm can allow the melody players to rest comfortably in the rhythm and find something extraordinary in the melody. I could say, like a setting for a jewel but I don't think that would go far enough."
# Posted on December 12th 2009 by Twisty
David Holt says that the best backer in the world is Doc Watson; being blind he has no other clues, he HAS to listen. Maybe there's a lesson for all those other would-be backers; stop looking at the Maid Behind the Bar, the Red-Haired Girl, and the Girl With The Blue Dress On, and start listening to the music.
Incidentally, I didn't try to be sexist here; how many would-be backers are female ? Not so many, apart from Iris, of course.
Thanks for the clarification, Rob. If you know the tune, and are having fun taking some liberties with it, and understand the tradition enough to know what liberties are an enhancement, then things are fine. It is those who think that, when not knowing the tune, decide to improvise, who really destroy the session!
"start listening to the music" Good advice Guernsey Pete.
One of the guitar players at our local sessions is a woman whom I enjoy playing music with because she is so good at being a "backer". Her husband is one of our fiddlers.
Funny ideas about backers
Funny ideas about backers
Some people on this site have funny ideas about what constitutes a backer - lots of people equate them with guitarists. I can't argue if that's your experience but...
In my view, people who back a tune are playing, on any instrument, a non-essential but complementary role, contributing some of the right notes (or chords) in the right places and helping things along a bit; they could not sustain the tune if other players dropped out. Nothing wrong in that because everyone does it at times.
I've played fiddle, banjo, mandolin and guitar, which is now probably my preferred instrument, but I don't regard myself as a backer any more than any other player at the session. In fact the expression is quite alien to me and, I suspect, other players there.
So, playing guitar, I would often start playing a set of tunes, flatpicking. The other musicians join in - some will know the tunes note for note, of course, and one or two will put in the notes they can as appropriate. This allows me to play chords and a rhythm that complements the bodhran player,perhaps, and switch between that and playing the tune as I wish. A friend playing the fiddle will spontaneously improvise certain phrases of the tune while most of the session players are playing the tunes absolutely straight.
So who is backing? Not me, the guitar player, since other players are laying down the bedrock of the the tunes allowing me the freedom to improvise. I can colour a tune with my choice of harmony or rhythm and influence the way other players interpret it and play themselves. Or I can play the tune pure and simple; it's my choice.
So probably no one is backing: people make a greater or lesser contribution according to their knowledge of the tunes and technical ability - or - everyone else is backing me?
# Posted on December 10th 2009 by Rob
Re: Funny ideas about backers
I'll back you on that!
# Posted on December 11th 2009 by mcknowall
Re: Funny ideas about backers
erm, it all sounds a bit sloppy. no disrespect.
# Posted on December 11th 2009 by one nation under chicken
Re: Funny ideas about backers
When you choose to colour a tune with your choice of harmony or rhythm, I think most people would say you are "backing" and when you choose to play the tune pure and simple they would say you are, well, "playing the tune."
I wish I could be a backer some day - it seems very difficult!
There's no judgement about skill or worth implied in the term "backing" (unless perhaps it is Tony McMahon who is using it.)
Some of my best friends are backers.
# Posted on December 11th 2009 by grego
Re: Funny ideas about backers
Quite right, Grego, most people would say that. I'm just choosing (with my tongue in my cheek, of course) to say you can look at it the other way round!
All you nice tune players kindly provide me the riff to work around!
# Posted on December 11th 2009 by Rob
Re: Funny ideas about backers
I know two guitarists in town who I would trust to back me with a tune. One is myself, and the other rarely plays guitar but rather fiddle. You have to know the tune to "back" it. The backing is the tune. And just like tunes can be played in more than one way, so can the "backing." The "backing" of one tune may work for another but usually not.
# Posted on December 11th 2009 by Earl Cameron
Re: Funny ideas about backers
i'm with you there earl.
sadly i havent yet worked out how to play mandolin and guitar at the same time.
# Posted on December 11th 2009 by one nation under chicken
Re: Funny ideas about backers
If you want to play mandolin and guitar at the same time you just need four arms and four hands.
# Posted on December 11th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: Funny backers
Rob, you be jammin' 'em man! & I don't mean GooseBerries.
Can we define: A "Session" vs A "Jam"?
November 27th 2005 by Greg
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/8484
# Posted on December 11th 2009 by Ben Steen
~
. . . back in the day . . . Cheers, peace ~ love ;)
# Posted on December 11th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Funny ideas about backers
"... they could not sustain the tune if other players dropped out."
I disagree. I think any accompanist should know the tunes well enough to continue on his/her own.
# Posted on December 11th 2009 by molaoch
Re: Funny ideas about backers
Don't worry Rob, I got your back.
# Posted on December 11th 2009 by fiddlerdan
Re: Funny ideas about backers
At the risk of mentioning a word almost as divisive around here as the word 'performance,' what you describe, Rob, sounds a lot like 'noodling.'
# Posted on December 12th 2009 by AlBrown
Re: Funny ideas about backers
Rob, the session prime directive of 'do no harm' is most often violated by novice whackers and strummers, of which there are a multitude. You're a lucky man if you've never been 'blessed' with one of them. Most of us are not so lucky and it's well discussed on here, which is probably what you're reacting to.
# Posted on December 12th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Funny ideas about backers
Yes, I have been lucky enough to realize when I was harming the session instead of helping it. I stopped playing temporarily when I realized this. I waited to start playing again when I felt that my "backing" would help instead of hurt.
And, yes, our local session has been "Blessed" with some novices who seemed to be doing their best to violate and damage the music making.
# Posted on December 12th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: Funny ideas about backers
A really good backer is a treasure to be truly thankful for. Like having the opportunity to play with a great player of any instrument, it can raise your experience of the music incredibly. A backer with graceful solid rhythm can allow the melody players to rest comfortably in the rhythm and find something extraordinary in the melody. I could say, like a setting for a jewel but I don't think that would go far enough.
# Posted on December 12th 2009 by Twisty
Re: Funny ideas about backers
Albrown, I believe 'noodling' is what people do when they have only a vague notion of the tune and it's not what I am talking about..
SWFL, yes I certainly recognise what you're talking about!
My idea was merely a conceit - in the metaphysical sense - to look at common assumptions about guitar players as backers from a different angle. Lots of melody players take a backing role from time to time and some (who might not be so brilliant or are learners) do it almost all the time. Lots of guitar players (and mandolin/ mandola/ etc) must be able to switch from playing tunes and leading sets to putting in chords and rhythm.
When I do that I don't feel I am 'backing'. It's just a flight of fancy to think that about 4 fiddle players, a couple of flute players are backing me!
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Rob
Re: Funny ideas about backers
"A really good backer is a treasure to be truly thankful for. Like having the opportunity to play with a great player of any instrument, it can raise your experience of the music incredibly. A backer with graceful solid rhythm can allow the melody players to rest comfortably in the rhythm and find something extraordinary in the melody. I could say, like a setting for a jewel but I don't think that would go far enough."
# Posted on December 12th 2009 by Twisty
Lovely description, Twisty.
# Posted on December 13th 2009 by Martin_BC
Re: Funny ideas about backers
David Holt says that the best backer in the world is Doc Watson; being blind he has no other clues, he HAS to listen. Maybe there's a lesson for all those other would-be backers; stop looking at the Maid Behind the Bar, the Red-Haired Girl, and the Girl With The Blue Dress On, and start listening to the music.
Incidentally, I didn't try to be sexist here; how many would-be backers are female ? Not so many, apart from Iris, of course.
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Funny ideas about backers
Thanks for the clarification, Rob. If you know the tune, and are having fun taking some liberties with it, and understand the tradition enough to know what liberties are an enhancement, then things are fine. It is those who think that, when not knowing the tune, decide to improvise, who really destroy the session!
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by AlBrown
Re: Funny ideas about backers
"start listening to the music" Good advice Guernsey Pete.
One of the guitar players at our local sessions is a woman whom I enjoy playing music with because she is so good at being a "backer". Her husband is one of our fiddlers.
# Posted on December 14th 2009 by fauxcelt