So I've been playing choons on the fiddle for 8 years now, and I've noticed a disturbing and potentially expensive side effect...
Over the past few years, I've noticed small notches that look like cavities developing at the tops of my front teetch (for you dentists out there, I'm talking about 'dental abfraction'). The dentist says that this is being caused by bending forces in my teeth (a result of clenching/grinding) which cause microscopic bits of enamel to break off near the gum which causes the notches over time. He said I might be clenching my teeth at night while I sleep, so he's making me a tooth guard to wear at night to prevent this.
BUT... I noticed the other day that when I play the fiddle, my jaw tends to be rather tightly clenched (a result of holding the fiddle in place from pressure between the jaw/shoulder). I'm not sure at all about this, but it's possible that this clenching is what is causing the bending forces in my teeth and thus the notches!!!
Anyone else out there have similar problems? I've never heard of this before so I'm wondering if I'm the only one who caught the ITM bug and had to get fillings as a result!
(tooth rot from too much of the black stuff doesn't count ;)
I've seen a lot of people who play this music gnashing their teeth and or clenching their teeth. It's not pretty.
And the music they play always sounds like hey are gnashing their teeth too.
If there's one prerequisite to being able to play this music well, it's relaxation. You absolutely have to be relaxed. There is absolutely no getting around it. If you are tensing up in any way at all it will be apparent in your music.
Try putting strips of aluminum foil between your teeth. That should sort you out
You shouldn't really have much pressure holding the instrument between your shoulder and jaw. Maybe you ought to get a higher chin rest or a shoulder rest.
although, the aluminum foil ought to do the trick...
One can also use a simple sports mouthguard that one softens in hot water, then put in the mouth to shape. That's what my dentist recommended. much cheaper.
Must admit, I think I do the same myself a wee bit, but I'll certainly not try llig's electrifying solution... Incidentally, I believe there's a fiddle player in Donegal nicknamed Gnasher, for doing exactly the same thing.
All this is as nothing compared to the dental problems suffered by harmonica players who, having ignored the usual enjoinders expressed in plain English to shut up, have thereafter been subjected to rather more direct methods of persuasion, usually whilst the harmonica is in the mouth, just in front of the teeth...
Well, trying to hold the fiddle by clenching tightly with the jaw is a common problem and is usually related to not turning the head enough. If you turn your head toward your left shoulder and sit up straight you get a pretty nice playing platform for your fiddle but more importantly you can allow the weight of your head to do the work for you. If your neck is relaxed and you let your head fall forward just slightly toward your shoulder, the chin comes down on the fiddle like a counterbalance. It doesn't really take that much.
Try putting your fiddle up on your shoulder and press down on the chin rest until you can balance it. You'll see that it doesn't actually take much force to keep it from falling down.
Holding the fiddle with your head turned but not kinked sideways or clenched is pretty important for avoiding all kinds of pain and dental damage. It should also allow your shoulder to stay relaxed and mobile which will help to keep the fingers relaxed and mobile too.
Cheaper and more comfortable than a mouthguard surely?
My wife has developed a dislike for Irish traditional music (before we met, mind you), but being a loving and understanding creature, she allows me to play at home. However, her dentist just recently told her the same thing - dental abfraction, caused by clenching of teeth. She was given a teeth guard to wear at night, but to no avail. Only since I moved on to playing other sorts of music, her problems seems to have abated.
Are you sure you're not frequently biting off bits of stray horse hair? I've seen people do that. Mind you, I've seen people open crown-capped bottles with their teeth too. They were crazy people though.
Interesting thread. I've videoed myself playing and realised how often I pull faces and generally tense up. I manage not to (but only when I consciously think about it), otherwise I'm only aware of it when I catch sight of myself in a mirror or realise I've stopped sitting or breathing properly. I'm guessing there's some value in having a way of relaxing before you play, but all too often I just pile into it when the mood takes me and don't always relax as much as I should.
Try really concentrating on relaxation when you play. That's worked wonders for me and hand pain. I didn't realize how tense I was until I really worked at relaxing. wow, worked at relaxing what an oxymoron. However, it's now longer "work" I play much more relaxed now and I can hear the difference.
I was in a session where I didn't know a lot of the tunes...when one I knew popped up, in my delight and eagerness, I broke my front teeth of my flute,
As an exercise, try doing some playing with your chin off the fiddle
totally. A couple of years ago the great Scottish fiddler Chris Stout
running a short workshop, freely moved his head around while
playing and talking. Sometimes used the orthodox position and
sometimes had the fiddle down lower, almost like the old timey
example above. The whole time he got a glorious, beautiful full
sound
Gnashers from Derry actually.
Some years ago I had two back teeth removed - the dentist said they broke in two even halves making them come out easily and asked if I had been chewing ball barings - I said I grind when playing the fiddle but he laughed at the notion - but I wonder......
When I started the box, I had one of those unattended to 12 year molars that the penny candy store took its toll on and so had a really old filling.
In the first month or so getting the 'calculus' of the diatonic down, I was clenching my teeth when I played. I pushed down so hard one day that the tooth cracked. My ITM crown.
ITM and dental damage...
ITM and dental damage...
So I've been playing choons on the fiddle for 8 years now, and I've noticed a disturbing and potentially expensive side effect...
Over the past few years, I've noticed small notches that look like cavities developing at the tops of my front teetch (for you dentists out there, I'm talking about 'dental abfraction'). The dentist says that this is being caused by bending forces in my teeth (a result of clenching/grinding) which cause microscopic bits of enamel to break off near the gum which causes the notches over time. He said I might be clenching my teeth at night while I sleep, so he's making me a tooth guard to wear at night to prevent this.
BUT... I noticed the other day that when I play the fiddle, my jaw tends to be rather tightly clenched (a result of holding the fiddle in place from pressure between the jaw/shoulder). I'm not sure at all about this, but it's possible that this clenching is what is causing the bending forces in my teeth and thus the notches!!!
Anyone else out there have similar problems? I've never heard of this before so I'm wondering if I'm the only one who caught the ITM bug and had to get fillings as a result!
(tooth rot from too much of the black stuff doesn't count ;)
# Posted on December 6th 2009 by heisenburger
Re: ITM and dental damage...
I've seen a lot of people who play this music gnashing their teeth and or clenching their teeth. It's not pretty.
And the music they play always sounds like hey are gnashing their teeth too.
If there's one prerequisite to being able to play this music well, it's relaxation. You absolutely have to be relaxed. There is absolutely no getting around it. If you are tensing up in any way at all it will be apparent in your music.
Try putting strips of aluminum foil between your teeth. That should sort you out
# Posted on December 6th 2009 by ...
Re: ITM and dental damage...
You shouldn't really have much pressure holding the instrument between your shoulder and jaw. Maybe you ought to get a higher chin rest or a shoulder rest.
although, the aluminum foil ought to do the trick...
One can also use a simple sports mouthguard that one softens in hot water, then put in the mouth to shape. That's what my dentist recommended. much cheaper.
# Posted on December 6th 2009 by Wyogal
Re: ITM and dental damage...
Must admit, I think I do the same myself a wee bit, but I'll certainly not try llig's electrifying solution... Incidentally, I believe there's a fiddle player in Donegal nicknamed Gnasher, for doing exactly the same thing.
# Posted on December 6th 2009 by On Sabbatical
Re: ITM and dental damage...
All this is as nothing compared to the dental problems suffered by harmonica players who, having ignored the usual enjoinders expressed in plain English to shut up, have thereafter been subjected to rather more direct methods of persuasion, usually whilst the harmonica is in the mouth, just in front of the teeth...
# Posted on December 6th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: ITM and dental damage...
ahh yes, we bodhran players are also known for our teeth to be smashed in...
# Posted on December 6th 2009 by scordion
Re: ITM and dental damage...
"Jazz (substitute Trad) is about what's in your heart, not what's on your teeth." ~ Bleeding Gums Murphy
# Posted on December 6th 2009 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: ITM and dental damage...
Well, trying to hold the fiddle by clenching tightly with the jaw is a common problem and is usually related to not turning the head enough. If you turn your head toward your left shoulder and sit up straight you get a pretty nice playing platform for your fiddle but more importantly you can allow the weight of your head to do the work for you. If your neck is relaxed and you let your head fall forward just slightly toward your shoulder, the chin comes down on the fiddle like a counterbalance. It doesn't really take that much.
Try putting your fiddle up on your shoulder and press down on the chin rest until you can balance it. You'll see that it doesn't actually take much force to keep it from falling down.
Holding the fiddle with your head turned but not kinked sideways or clenched is pretty important for avoiding all kinds of pain and dental damage. It should also allow your shoulder to stay relaxed and mobile which will help to keep the fingers relaxed and mobile too.
Cheaper and more comfortable than a mouthguard surely?
# Posted on December 6th 2009 by Twisty
Re: ITM and dental damage...
iMT and dental damage in others...
My wife has developed a dislike for Irish traditional music (before we met, mind you), but being a loving and understanding creature, she allows me to play at home. However, her dentist just recently told her the same thing - dental abfraction, caused by clenching of teeth. She was given a teeth guard to wear at night, but to no avail. Only since I moved on to playing other sorts of music, her problems seems to have abated.
# Posted on December 6th 2009 by Janek
Re: ITM and dental damage...
<ITM> of course...
# Posted on December 6th 2009 by Janek
Re: ITM and dental damage...
Are you sure you're not frequently biting off bits of stray horse hair? I've seen people do that. Mind you, I've seen people open crown-capped bottles with their teeth too. They were crazy people though.
# Posted on December 6th 2009 by RichardB
Re: ITM and dental damage...
Interesting thread. I've videoed myself playing and realised how often I pull faces and generally tense up. I manage not to (but only when I consciously think about it), otherwise I'm only aware of it when I catch sight of myself in a mirror or realise I've stopped sitting or breathing properly. I'm guessing there's some value in having a way of relaxing before you play, but all too often I just pile into it when the mood takes me and don't always relax as much as I should.
# Posted on December 6th 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: ITM and dental damage...
Try really concentrating on relaxation when you play. That's worked wonders for me and hand pain. I didn't realize how tense I was until I really worked at relaxing. wow, worked at relaxing what an oxymoron. However, it's now longer "work" I play much more relaxed now and I can hear the difference.
Good luck
Mary
# Posted on December 6th 2009 by Antikhntr
Re: ITM and dental damage...
I was in a session where I didn't know a lot of the tunes...when one I knew popped up, in my delight and eagerness, I broke my front teeth of my flute,
now I know what I want fwor Cwristmas......
Sorry couldn't help myself
# Posted on December 7th 2009 by premier
Re: ITM and dental damage...
' when I play the fiddle, my jaw tends to be rather tightly clenched (a result of holding the fiddle in place from pressure between the jaw/shoulder'
easy solution-http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCsRNDFH-lg
# Posted on December 7th 2009 by shanty
Re: ITM and dental damage...
As an exercise, try doing some playing with your chin off the fiddle
totally. A couple of years ago the great Scottish fiddler Chris Stout
running a short workshop, freely moved his head around while
playing and talking. Sometimes used the orthodox position and
sometimes had the fiddle down lower, almost like the old timey
example above. The whole time he got a glorious, beautiful full
sound
# Posted on December 7th 2009 by Hup
Re: ITM and dental damage...
Gnashers from Derry actually.
Some years ago I had two back teeth removed - the dentist said they broke in two even halves making them come out easily and asked if I had been chewing ball barings - I said I grind when playing the fiddle but he laughed at the notion - but I wonder......
# Posted on December 7th 2009 by iwerzon
Re: ITM and dental damage...
LOL
When I started the box, I had one of those unattended to 12 year molars that the penny candy store took its toll on and so had a really old filling.
In the first month or so getting the 'calculus' of the diatonic down, I was clenching my teeth when I played. I pushed down so hard one day that the tooth cracked. My ITM crown.
# Posted on December 7th 2009 by zippydw
Re: ITM and dental damage...
Or you could switch to flute playing
# Posted on December 8th 2009 by SineadE