Quote "Looking at folk music as inferior music is a very big mistake"
I like that......
Over the years I knew a few Irish students who were studying classical violin in Ireland. Yet the only Irish music they knew how to play was The Coolin or The Londonderry Air. I love classical music but I'm afraid that there 'used to be' and maybe 'still is' a little bit of snobbery attached to classical players when it come to playing good old 'Round the House and mind the Dresser' music . Probably goes back to the days when certain girls would refuse to dance with me because they knew I lived in the 'Tight End of the Town'........!
A few years ago there was a film called ' The Magic Fiddle ' among other things Yehudi Menhuin played with Frankie Gavin, Menhuin said he was in awe of traditional fiddlers.
Thanks for posting this video Dave, I did enjoy it although I am far from being a classical musician.I must say that in traditional sessions that I go to there seems to be more classical violinists willing to cross over as it were to trad. style with enthusiasim.In fact, close to where I live there is one very person who is actually trying to kick off a trad. session in her work place. She plays classical violin in a symphony orchestra in her spare time.
My experience to date tallies with that of TomB-R's first sentence, above - I *do* think there's a "chip-on-the-shoulder" factor here, which isn't necessary.
I was interested in the remarks of the Greek violinist on the YouiTube clip, and his perspective on folk music.
Greece, as an occupied Ottoman province, wasn't a home for Western cultural developments that occurred between roughly 1500 and 1800 AD, including those of Classical music, orchestras and education. That is, except maybe on islands run by the Venetians. Some Greeks travelled of course, and / or read contemporary books from elsewhere, but it was a lot easier to do this than establish a Classical music infrastructure.
By 1832 Greece was a recognised independent nation. The Athens Conservatoire - the oldest in Gr - was founded in 1871. It first taught only violin and flute and aimed to hark back to Ancient Greek principles. Ten years later, general Classical instruments / theory / etc. were introduced - controversially.
Romantic nationalism and purism seem to have been preoccupations in c19 Greek cultural life. There seems to have started an ongoing effort to link up with the remote Greek past, by trying to recreate both its music and a language imagined to have descended from Ancient Greek without foreign influences ('Purified Greek').
Culturals looking for musical inspiration from Greek culture seem to have gone to one or more of three sources: Ancient Greece, the Byzantine Empire and the Orthodox Church tradition, and the folk tradition. The latter seems to have been held in high regard from the first. I've not heard of any time when it was suppressed as supposedly inferior or unworthy by the state or key cultural programmes (though I dare say it has had its run-ins with the Church). A factor here is that Western Classical music was never integral enough to Greek culture to be promoted throughout its ranks as self-evidently the best, and better than folk etc. The Greeks wouldn't have bought it. And most of it originated in the Crusader countries that did the Greek world lots of damage ("Frank" is still a disparaging word for "Western European"...).
Folk / trad started getting into trouble when refugees from Asia Minor created urban Rebetika music. But it was the lyrics that caused this, being about sex, drugs, vendettas and the slammer. This was conveniently ascribed to decadent Turkish influences. Proscribed by dictators, rebetika outlived them. It is integral to modern Greek popular music, which has various folk / trad roots. Most has a definite Eastern twang. Many Greeks like to see their folk / trad as being at least in some of its aspects a living music / song / poetry tradition from the Byzantine era, and to say that the Byzantines were the first to use forms that we might say were Turkish or Arabic.
Greece produced no household-word Classical composer (to us, that is) like Grieg or Bartok, at least not as far as I know. Which doesn't mean Greece lacks Classical music afficionados, or has necessarily lacked good Classical composers along Western lines. But the modern ones I've heard of have tended to be either Modernist / experimental (Xenakis, I think) or populist (such as Theodorakis, probably the most famous Greek composer).
I might add that the traditional music interweaves instrumental breaks with song in a way the older tradition in Ireland, at any rate, did not - hence the clip guy's stress on poetry being one thing with the music. Also the trad took on board the violin and the clarinet as central instruments, rather as ITM did the fiddle and flute. Maybe Gypsies brought them down the Balkans from central Europe, but I don't know. There had already been bowed and reed instruments in Greece, but it would be fair to say fiddle and clarinet were an improvement on this - or so the Greek players evidently judged.
I agree heartily with Tom B-R. I have played both trad and classical for over 30 years. I have seen much more interest, respect, and open-mindedness from my classical colleagues toward my trad playing as compared to vice-versa.
this all reminds me of an Irish fiddler friend who went into a local violin shop to buy some rosin or something.
The woman who owned/ran the shop asks my friend what orchestra he plays with, and he replies by saying that he doesn't play with any orchestra but instead plays Irish music.
The woman's face brightens and she says "I play Irish music too!" and she tucks her violin under her chin and proceeds to play The Irish Washerwoman completely stacatto, the bow bouncing up and down for each note.
Violinist shows respect for Folk music ?
Violinist shows respect for Folk music ?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8383458.stm
Now why are these atitudes not so common in the the UK and Eire?
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Violinist shows respect for Folk music ?
Maybe a lovely person, maybe a great violinist, but I can't stand the music he plays in that video.
Going for my medication now...
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by Ramiro
Re: Violinist shows respect for Folk music ?
Quote "Looking at folk music as inferior music is a very big mistake"
I like that......
Over the years I knew a few Irish students who were studying classical violin in Ireland. Yet the only Irish music they knew how to play was The Coolin or The Londonderry Air. I love classical music but I'm afraid that there 'used to be' and maybe 'still is' a little bit of snobbery attached to classical players when it come to playing good old 'Round the House and mind the Dresser' music . Probably goes back to the days when certain girls would refuse to dance with me because they knew I lived in the 'Tight End of the Town'........!
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by Free Reed
Re: Violinist shows respect for Folk music ?
I've generally found a lot more "snobbery" etc. from trad musicians towards classical musicians than the other way round.
On the other hand, there's often distortion because classical types tend to be "polite" people who don't necessarily say what they actually think.....
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by TomB-R
Re: Violinist shows respect for Folk music ?
A few years ago there was a film called ' The Magic Fiddle ' among other things Yehudi Menhuin played with Frankie Gavin, Menhuin said he was in awe of traditional fiddlers.
Dave H
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by Dave Hanson
Re: Violinist shows respect for Folk music ?
Thanks for posting this video Dave, I did enjoy it although I am far from being a classical musician.I must say that in traditional sessions that I go to there seems to be more classical violinists willing to cross over as it were to trad. style with enthusiasim.In fact, close to where I live there is one very person who is actually trying to kick off a trad. session in her work place. She plays classical violin in a symphony orchestra in her spare time.
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by sandy2
Re: Violinist shows respect for Folk music ?
My experience to date tallies with that of TomB-R's first sentence, above - I *do* think there's a "chip-on-the-shoulder" factor here, which isn't necessary.
I was interested in the remarks of the Greek violinist on the YouiTube clip, and his perspective on folk music.
Greece, as an occupied Ottoman province, wasn't a home for Western cultural developments that occurred between roughly 1500 and 1800 AD, including those of Classical music, orchestras and education. That is, except maybe on islands run by the Venetians. Some Greeks travelled of course, and / or read contemporary books from elsewhere, but it was a lot easier to do this than establish a Classical music infrastructure.
By 1832 Greece was a recognised independent nation. The Athens Conservatoire - the oldest in Gr - was founded in 1871. It first taught only violin and flute and aimed to hark back to Ancient Greek principles. Ten years later, general Classical instruments / theory / etc. were introduced - controversially.
Romantic nationalism and purism seem to have been preoccupations in c19 Greek cultural life. There seems to have started an ongoing effort to link up with the remote Greek past, by trying to recreate both its music and a language imagined to have descended from Ancient Greek without foreign influences ('Purified Greek').
Culturals looking for musical inspiration from Greek culture seem to have gone to one or more of three sources: Ancient Greece, the Byzantine Empire and the Orthodox Church tradition, and the folk tradition. The latter seems to have been held in high regard from the first. I've not heard of any time when it was suppressed as supposedly inferior or unworthy by the state or key cultural programmes (though I dare say it has had its run-ins with the Church). A factor here is that Western Classical music was never integral enough to Greek culture to be promoted throughout its ranks as self-evidently the best, and better than folk etc. The Greeks wouldn't have bought it. And most of it originated in the Crusader countries that did the Greek world lots of damage ("Frank" is still a disparaging word for "Western European"...).
Folk / trad started getting into trouble when refugees from Asia Minor created urban Rebetika music. But it was the lyrics that caused this, being about sex, drugs, vendettas and the slammer. This was conveniently ascribed to decadent Turkish influences. Proscribed by dictators, rebetika outlived them. It is integral to modern Greek popular music, which has various folk / trad roots. Most has a definite Eastern twang. Many Greeks like to see their folk / trad as being at least in some of its aspects a living music / song / poetry tradition from the Byzantine era, and to say that the Byzantines were the first to use forms that we might say were Turkish or Arabic.
Greece produced no household-word Classical composer (to us, that is) like Grieg or Bartok, at least not as far as I know. Which doesn't mean Greece lacks Classical music afficionados, or has necessarily lacked good Classical composers along Western lines. But the modern ones I've heard of have tended to be either Modernist / experimental (Xenakis, I think) or populist (such as Theodorakis, probably the most famous Greek composer).
I might add that the traditional music interweaves instrumental breaks with song in a way the older tradition in Ireland, at any rate, did not - hence the clip guy's stress on poetry being one thing with the music. Also the trad took on board the violin and the clarinet as central instruments, rather as ITM did the fiddle and flute. Maybe Gypsies brought them down the Balkans from central Europe, but I don't know. There had already been bowed and reed instruments in Greece, but it would be fair to say fiddle and clarinet were an improvement on this - or so the Greek players evidently judged.
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by nicholas
Re: Violinist shows respect for Folk music ?
I agree heartily with Tom B-R. I have played both trad and classical for over 30 years. I have seen much more interest, respect, and open-mindedness from my classical colleagues toward my trad playing as compared to vice-versa.
# Posted on November 28th 2009 by 99 Sheep
Re: Violinist shows respect for Folk music ?
Some of the worst snobs I've come across have been trad musicians.
# Posted on November 29th 2009 by SteelPlayer
Re: Violinist shows respect for Folk music ?
Ramiro - you didn't like it? I thought it was gorgeous. Really beautiful music. Was it Berg, does anyone know?
# Posted on November 30th 2009 by ethical blend
Re: Violinist shows respect for Folk music ?
this all reminds me of an Irish fiddler friend who went into a local violin shop to buy some rosin or something.
The woman who owned/ran the shop asks my friend what orchestra he plays with, and he replies by saying that he doesn't play with any orchestra but instead plays Irish music.
The woman's face brightens and she says "I play Irish music too!" and she tucks her violin under her chin and proceeds to play The Irish Washerwoman completely stacatto, the bow bouncing up and down for each note.
# Posted on December 6th 2009 by Richard D Cook
Re: Violinist shows respect for Folk music ?
Nicely put!
# Posted on December 10th 2009 by ClanMcKinnon