I've checked the archives and couldn't find much on this topic, so here's a question for you guitar players:
When picking a jig or reel on guitar with a plectrum (I mean the actual tune, not strumming chords) where do you place your hand? I started out doing this just for fun at home and had the heel of my hand resting behind the bridge, the way flatpickers play (I think). To me this was the easiest and fastest way of playing, but it sounds thin and hard.
I can get a better tone and more volume with my hand placed over the sound hole in a "free floating" position, meaning I'm only touching the guitar with my right elbow, but it feels clumsy and I have a lot less control. I was told this is the prefered position for picking.
Two professional guitar players I asked play with their hand over the sound hole and rest their little finger on the pick guard. I've also seen Django Reinhardt do a little bit of this on youtube videos. I tend to get a cramp in my hand in this position.
So I guess this is a sort of "anything goes" or "whatever works best" situation, but I was curious what technique other players use and recommend. Suggestions?
I often rest the heel of my picking hand on the bottom string(s) so as to get my pick over the sound hole. If I need to play the bottom string then my hand might slip back to the bridge.
I would find it very difficult to flat pick and not have my hand at least brushing the strings. The pinky thing I don't get. It inhibits wrist movement and it seems to reduce the dynamic possibilities (i.e., I can't play loud enough).
I think the pinky resting on the pick guard allows you to pivot the pick to increase dynamic range of the note you are picking. I think it's useful in playing jazz, blues or heavy metal lead guitar. For Irish tunes on guitar I'm squarely on the bridge.
I prefer not to glue my fingers to the body of a guitar, as it constraints my wrist movement (especially if moving from strumming to picking and back). If you are a fresh starter, it's best to learn floating playing with a relaxed hand and very soft (rather "reassuring" than "supporting" ) resting of your fingers from time to time on the body of the guitar. I had to relearn into this style but it's highly effective. A very good reference is Tony Rice, who also has his tutorial DVD out (although the speed he plays at in a tutorial can, in my opinion, throw many off the path).
Have fun exploring.
Re: pivoting - you don't need to support your hand to do that. It's only that most people learn to pick on their own, so each one starts out as he pleases, and then sticks to his own style, with all its pros and cons.
I get the impression on the Tony Rice video that he also uses and additional movement from the index finger and thumb, instead of just playing from the wrist.
I have settled on the 'classical' position for the guitar, ie held at 45 degrees. It means finding something to put your foot on, but fingering is easier, and the pick falls more naturally across the strings. I don't rest my right hand anywhere, but my wrist/forearm serve as a reference on the edge of the guitar. I used to play a lot of fingerstyle, and used my pinky on the pickguard or sometimes just touching the topstring. But I can't do that when flatpicking because my whole hand moves. Even so, where I put my hand depends a lot on which guitar I am using. I suppose it depends on the distance from the edge of the guitar to the sound hole, and the height of the bridge.
Everybody I ever saw that had real speed anchored their hand to something. Speed is about accuracy. Anchored positions are faster because they are more accurate
but I'm with Shanty here. I anchor my hand with a pinky on the pickguard in jazz and blues, but in this music I keep my hand on the bridge. I use the heel of my hand to dampen the strings
Most people recommend not using your pinky so I switched away from that. It took a few weeks of practice to get used to it and I've found it helps when moving across strings. Tony Rice and some others use the rounded side of the pick. I found that easier to move across strings but I haven't been able to get enough volume with the rounded edge.
I'm flatpicking the light jigs on my new cd of feis music on www.cdbaby.com/markarrington2.
Using your pinky on the pickguard is fine if you want speed. Free floating will get you better tone. At least this is true for the banjo, which has a deadened head from resting a finger on it, but not so much that I wouldn't do it for the sake of nailing a tune.
most people? there must be a new school of guitar ideas. When I was a sprog, EVERYBODY said "Put yer pinky on the box, that's why they put that plastic guard thingy there"
Earl has the right course! There is no difference in how fast any of us can wiggle a pick. Musical speed is about being accurate and anchoring your hand gives you a shorter moment of inertia than anchoring your arm. That's physics, fellas, not just my opinion
“…most people learn to pick on their own, so each one starts out as he pleases, and then sticks to his own style, with all its pros and cons.”
Which is one of several reasons why slavish imitation might not be a good idea.
To prop or not to prop. Some people happen to have a good musculoskeletal structure for flatpicking. For them it’s easier to play without propping. Other people might need that bit of assistance. I’ve seen plenty of players play with smokin’ speed without propping – Al DiMeola, John McLaughlin, Stochelo Rosenberg and names you wouldn’t know.
I’ve always had trouble maintaining speed without some kind of propping, usually just touching lower strings. I started out propping on the bridge, but got away from that as I built up some strength. Flatpicking is a brute force technique, compared with fingerpicking or fiddling or fluting, and it can take a long time to develop the strength and control to play dance tunes – years, even.
I enjoy flatpicking tunes for fun and I always do the pinky on the pickguard thing. I thought I was an alien, glad to see I'm not doing anything unusual!
Flatpicking really is physically hard compared to many instruments I have played. Not to mention in standard or DADGAD tuning the location of most of your notes isn't exactly the most intuitive for melody playing, so it is both more physically and more mentally demanding.
These are all reasons why I play the fiddle, but I can flat pick a couple of tunes on the guitar too.
For me, the crux of the whole flatpicking matter is string crossing. I can play a tremolo on a single string at supersonic speed, but I have to cut that speed nearly in half to have any chance of actually playing a tune. So my hand position is geared entirely toward that end and when I do technical development exercises, as I’m doing now in hopes of recovering from strain and atrophy, it’s all based on string crossing.
Don't be a slave to either holding your hand fisted up or to placing your pinky on the pick guard—do one or the other depending on what works better for a passage.
Check out a variety of manouche / gypsy players on ye olde You Tube and you'll see that either approach can work.
Of course, if you're looking for "the sweet spot" as I've heard mandolin-players call it, you have already ruined it if you are resting the heel of your hand on the soundboard, as that introduces quite a lot of damping to the guitar resonance, plus this puts the pick too close to the bridge.
The minimal touch of the little finger ( pinky to those of you west of the Atlantic ) on the pickguard close to the soundhole is much less damping, and your pick, as you have heard already, is much closer to the ideal "sweet spot".
After posting above, I went looking for "Shove the Pig's Foot Closer to the Fire" in the tune section, and there's a link to The Transatlantic Sessions 3, from RTE, great stuff there, and on programme 6 there's a very nice version of St Annes Reel early on - take a look at what the guitar-picker is doing - he seems to vary it depending on how fast he is picking, sometimes resting free fingers momentarily on the pickguard in slower passages, otherwise being free of any contact with the soundboard.
my natural tendency is to rest some part of the pickig hand on something. a free-hanging hand does work better for me when flatpicking melodies but it doesn't come naturally and I have to work really hard at it
Some very good advice here on finding the sweet spot and projection. Pay attention to what the gypsy jazz players are doing. They've been trying to make themselves heard on acoustic guitar for a long time and they have a wealth of wisdom at this stage.
It's also very useful to experiment with various left hand fingerings. Don't stick slavishly to, say, the 2nd postion for a tune in D. Look for fingerings that minimise the amount of string crossing. Some tunes just don't lend themselves to being easily played on the guitar - choose carefully!
Right hand position for tunes on guitar
Right hand position for tunes on guitar
I've checked the archives and couldn't find much on this topic, so here's a question for you guitar players:
When picking a jig or reel on guitar with a plectrum (I mean the actual tune, not strumming chords) where do you place your hand? I started out doing this just for fun at home and had the heel of my hand resting behind the bridge, the way flatpickers play (I think). To me this was the easiest and fastest way of playing, but it sounds thin and hard.
I can get a better tone and more volume with my hand placed over the sound hole in a "free floating" position, meaning I'm only touching the guitar with my right elbow, but it feels clumsy and I have a lot less control. I was told this is the prefered position for picking.
Two professional guitar players I asked play with their hand over the sound hole and rest their little finger on the pick guard. I've also seen Django Reinhardt do a little bit of this on youtube videos. I tend to get a cramp in my hand in this position.
So I guess this is a sort of "anything goes" or "whatever works best" situation, but I was curious what technique other players use and recommend. Suggestions?
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by Bleedin' Heart
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
I often rest the heel of my picking hand on the bottom string(s) so as to get my pick over the sound hole. If I need to play the bottom string then my hand might slip back to the bridge.
I would find it very difficult to flat pick and not have my hand at least brushing the strings. The pinky thing I don't get. It inhibits wrist movement and it seems to reduce the dynamic possibilities (i.e., I can't play loud enough).
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by DonaldK
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
I think the pinky resting on the pick guard allows you to pivot the pick to increase dynamic range of the note you are picking. I think it's useful in playing jazz, blues or heavy metal lead guitar. For Irish tunes on guitar I'm squarely on the bridge.
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by shanty
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
I prefer not to glue my fingers to the body of a guitar, as it constraints my wrist movement (especially if moving from strumming to picking and back). If you are a fresh starter, it's best to learn floating playing with a relaxed hand and very soft (rather "reassuring" than "supporting" ) resting of your fingers from time to time on the body of the guitar. I had to relearn into this style but it's highly effective. A very good reference is Tony Rice, who also has his tutorial DVD out (although the speed he plays at in a tutorial can, in my opinion, throw many off the path).
If you don't know Tony Rice, have a glimpse at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VESPkA8fX-I
Have fun exploring.
Re: pivoting - you don't need to support your hand to do that. It's only that most people learn to pick on their own, so each one starts out as he pleases, and then sticks to his own style, with all its pros and cons.
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by EastPole
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
Thanks for the suggestions so far!
I get the impression on the Tony Rice video that he also uses and additional movement from the index finger and thumb, instead of just playing from the wrist.
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by Bleedin' Heart
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
I have settled on the 'classical' position for the guitar, ie held at 45 degrees. It means finding something to put your foot on, but fingering is easier, and the pick falls more naturally across the strings. I don't rest my right hand anywhere, but my wrist/forearm serve as a reference on the edge of the guitar. I used to play a lot of fingerstyle, and used my pinky on the pickguard or sometimes just touching the topstring. But I can't do that when flatpicking because my whole hand moves. Even so, where I put my hand depends a lot on which guitar I am using. I suppose it depends on the distance from the edge of the guitar to the sound hole, and the height of the bridge.
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by gam
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
Everybody I ever saw that had real speed anchored their hand to something. Speed is about accuracy. Anchored positions are faster because they are more accurate
but I'm with Shanty here. I anchor my hand with a pinky on the pickguard in jazz and blues, but in this music I keep my hand on the bridge. I use the heel of my hand to dampen the strings
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by Nate Ryan
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
Most people recommend not using your pinky so I switched away from that. It took a few weeks of practice to get used to it and I've found it helps when moving across strings. Tony Rice and some others use the rounded side of the pick. I found that easier to move across strings but I haven't been able to get enough volume with the rounded edge.
I'm flatpicking the light jigs on my new cd of feis music on www.cdbaby.com/markarrington2.
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by markarrington
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
Using your pinky on the pickguard is fine if you want speed. Free floating will get you better tone. At least this is true for the banjo, which has a deadened head from resting a finger on it, but not so much that I wouldn't do it for the sake of nailing a tune.
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by Earl Cameron
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
most people? there must be a new school of guitar ideas. When I was a sprog, EVERYBODY said "Put yer pinky on the box, that's why they put that plastic guard thingy there"
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by Nate Ryan
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
Earl has the right course! There is no difference in how fast any of us can wiggle a pick. Musical speed is about being accurate and anchoring your hand gives you a shorter moment of inertia than anchoring your arm. That's physics, fellas, not just my opinion
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by Nate Ryan
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
Good insight from EastPole:
“…most people learn to pick on their own, so each one starts out as he pleases, and then sticks to his own style, with all its pros and cons.”
Which is one of several reasons why slavish imitation might not be a good idea.
To prop or not to prop. Some people happen to have a good musculoskeletal structure for flatpicking. For them it’s easier to play without propping. Other people might need that bit of assistance. I’ve seen plenty of players play with smokin’ speed without propping – Al DiMeola, John McLaughlin, Stochelo Rosenberg and names you wouldn’t know.
I’ve always had trouble maintaining speed without some kind of propping, usually just touching lower strings. I started out propping on the bridge, but got away from that as I built up some strength. Flatpicking is a brute force technique, compared with fingerpicking or fiddling or fluting, and it can take a long time to develop the strength and control to play dance tunes – years, even.
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by Bob himself
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
I enjoy flatpicking tunes for fun and I always do the pinky on the pickguard thing. I thought I was an alien, glad to see I'm not doing anything unusual!
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
Flatpicking really is physically hard compared to many instruments I have played. Not to mention in standard or DADGAD tuning the location of most of your notes isn't exactly the most intuitive for melody playing, so it is both more physically and more mentally demanding.
These are all reasons why I play the fiddle, but I can flat pick a couple of tunes on the guitar too.
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by Earl Cameron
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
For me, the crux of the whole flatpicking matter is string crossing. I can play a tremolo on a single string at supersonic speed, but I have to cut that speed nearly in half to have any chance of actually playing a tune. So my hand position is geared entirely toward that end and when I do technical development exercises, as I’m doing now in hopes of recovering from strain and atrophy, it’s all based on string crossing.
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by Bob himself
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
Don't be a slave to either holding your hand fisted up or to placing your pinky on the pick guard—do one or the other depending on what works better for a passage.
Check out a variety of manouche / gypsy players on ye olde You Tube and you'll see that either approach can work.
# Posted on November 19th 2009 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
Of course, if you're looking for "the sweet spot" as I've heard mandolin-players call it, you have already ruined it if you are resting the heel of your hand on the soundboard, as that introduces quite a lot of damping to the guitar resonance, plus this puts the pick too close to the bridge.
The minimal touch of the little finger ( pinky to those of you west of the Atlantic ) on the pickguard close to the soundhole is much less damping, and your pick, as you have heard already, is much closer to the ideal "sweet spot".
# Posted on November 20th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
After posting above, I went looking for "Shove the Pig's Foot Closer to the Fire" in the tune section, and there's a link to The Transatlantic Sessions 3, from RTE, great stuff there, and on programme 6 there's a very nice version of St Annes Reel early on - take a look at what the guitar-picker is doing - he seems to vary it depending on how fast he is picking, sometimes resting free fingers momentarily on the pickguard in slower passages, otherwise being free of any contact with the soundboard.
# Posted on November 20th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
my natural tendency is to rest some part of the pickig hand on something. a free-hanging hand does work better for me when flatpicking melodies but it doesn't come naturally and I have to work really hard at it
# Posted on November 20th 2009 by harmonic miner
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
I don't play enough melody on the guitar myself and should definitely work on it more.
I found this clip of Kris Drever and Éamonn Coyne on youtube. You could do a lot worse than following Kris' example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DRUUhUST5XE
# Posted on November 24th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
I rest the heel of my hand on the bridge or it floats above the bridge.
# Posted on November 24th 2009 by the wicked hacker
Re: Right hand position for tunes on guitar
Some very good advice here on finding the sweet spot and projection. Pay attention to what the gypsy jazz players are doing. They've been trying to make themselves heard on acoustic guitar for a long time and they have a wealth of wisdom at this stage.
It's also very useful to experiment with various left hand fingerings. Don't stick slavishly to, say, the 2nd postion for a tune in D. Look for fingerings that minimise the amount of string crossing. Some tunes just don't lend themselves to being easily played on the guitar - choose carefully!
# Posted on November 24th 2009 by SteelPlayer