I was visiting a local session pub the other day where the bar staff were encouraging the punters to donate tips for the musicians...
Now I realise that musicians are not the most "well off" people in the world but surely if a pub is encouraging people to come along to play music then they ought to be paying for the privelege?
On the other hand, if the musicians are doing it of their own accord for their own enjoyment then surely they shouldn't be expecting payment for this either?
In my opinion, this creates a "grey area" and, besides taking advantage of the musicians involved, it also makes customers feel uncomfortable or that they are obliged to contribute. After all, many of them might just be in for a "quick pint".
Of course, a punter might have really enjoyed his/her experience in a particular session pub and he/she might even wish to buy the musicians a drink or put some money behind the bar for this purpose. That's his or her business, of course. However, it shouldn't be expected as a matter of course.
I do realise that in some countries this is probably not an uncommon practice but it hasn't really happened much here(Scotland) before...at least, not until recently.
I am sorely tempted to make a joke about this, but I'll leave it to someone else while I tell you of my experience. I often get tips from punters, especially tourists. I get paid for my performance so I'm not looking for tips, and to be honest I feel belittled when someone on their way out, leaves a one euro coin on the the table. There were occasions in past years when some soul took it on themselves to pass around a pint glass on behalf of the musicians. I always felt embarressed by that, and all those small coins were hard to count anyway.....!
I know of one pub in Edinburgh that has a musician's tip jar on the bar but I don't know how often it is made use of. Certainly I can not remember seeing anyone encouraging people to contribute to it although the banter from one of the members of staff in there, also a musician, tends to be the most entertaining aspect of a trip to Edinburgh.
How things change! According to some sources, back in history one pound sterling was the equivalent of 16oz of silver (240 sterling silver coins made up one pound in weight).
Today you’d have to pay something like at least 169.44 pounds sterling to buy that same pound of silver; which means, in the current example, that where formerly your twenty pounds could buy you twenty pounds of silver, today it is enough for only around 7 pints of Guinness so they say; whereas if you still had your 20 pounds of silver, you’d be able to cash it in for pounds sterling and buy something like 1,189 pints of Guinness.
Here's a tip: Someone’s getting short-changed.
(“There is some uncertainty as to the origin of the term "pound sterling". Some sources say it dates back to Anglo-Saxon times, when coins called sterlings were minted from silver; 240 of these sterlings weighed one pound, and large payments came to be made in "pounds of sterlings".[7]” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_sterling))
Free beer all night is a very happy compromise, we have found. We're not being formally paid so we can stop for a few natters. It ain't a gig so no-one objects to that.
M.E. Sterling, from Esterlings, i.e. 'men of the east' a name for the Hanse merchants of London (according to Skeat) Now if only I knew what Hanse merchants were...
Look, if attractive young women aren't biting their lower lips while pleadingly thrusting money and phone numbers into your pockets while you're playing, well, I suppose some people need to improve their chops.
At a pub I previously played, the owner, being very grateful for the session, not only provided free drinks, but also insisted in putting out a tip jar. His bar staff were also very friendly, so we decided to reward them by saving the tips all year, and then buying gift certificates for each of them at holiday time. The session was a ripper, and the punters reacted accordingly, so these gifts were quite impressive. Of course this required that one of the more trustworthy players open a bank account, and do the weekly deposit duty, but 'twas worth watching to looks on the faces of the staff when handed a hefty check at the end of the year.
We receive tips for our 'closed' sessions (only compensated by a free meal on the pubs) that we treat more like gigs - we're scheduled to show up; but no tips are expected at our open sessions each week. Once in a while they are pressed upon us and we deal with them accordingly.
Punters being hustled to put in tips for the players doesn't sound good at all to me.
They might come all over critical and say, "They're not all that good really, it's a bit of a cheek..."
Or become irate when they see sessioners sleeping, contemplating their drinks, eating, chewing the fat with others, going out for smokes, propping up the bar, trying out instruments they can't play, reading the pub newspaper, or molesting the cat.
They will say, "They're freeloaders! Make them do National Service! Lock them up! Send them back!" - and other such things.
The behaviours described are my own. They are how actually I passed my student grant years, but my manner of life was then hidden from the public, not practised in full view of an affronted nation, as is that of a session.
It is a baleful thing to be accountable in the heat of one's pleasures - e.g., while snoozing till the rest of them have finished playing some boring set, or scanning the rag to see how many of the local convicts you know. (Indeed, at the best of times my desire to be accountable is rather less than my desire to play The Rakes Of Mallow a dozen times.)
So I feel the practice of institutionally-urged "tipping for the musicians" is much to be discouraged.
@ gam and ethical blend (and although this is completely off topic...):
The Hanse was an organisation of merchants around the Baltic sea and places near to it. They were closely connected to their home cities. This is the reason why for example the city of Hamburg (Germany) has HH on its number plate. It means Hansestadt (stadt=city) Hamburg. The same for Luebeck, Bremen and a lot of other towns and cities, not only in Germany.
Thanks Shylie. I knew something (but not much) about the Hanseatic League. I'm still scratching my head about the Esterlings, though ... I mean, I see the point, but I can't quite make the jigsaw piece fit ...
Currently, Hanse is a builder of very fine sailboats. I doubt that the tip jar will allow me to trade in my ancient Florida-built vessel anytime soon. (No offense intended, SWFL Fiddler).
From my memory pockets I pull up bits of fluff:-
1 The silver in mine near the area where the Hanse merchants originated was of particularly good quality, and much sought after by London merchants.
2. The coins made with this silver had a star printed on them. The word sterling comes from this star design, (called staerling, or something) not the word for east. I don't know where I collected this fluff, but it is as good an explanation as any.
Lots of musicians play at places that don't pay them. The deal is they can sell their CD's, usually get free drinks/meal and "pass the hat". Some clubs will actively ask patrons to pass the hat for money for the musicians, but most do not.
It's a sorry state of things when patrons do not pay for their music.
Tips for the musicians....
Tips for the musicians....
I was visiting a local session pub the other day where the bar staff were encouraging the punters to donate tips for the musicians...
Now I realise that musicians are not the most "well off" people in the world but surely if a pub is encouraging people to come along to play music then they ought to be paying for the privelege?
On the other hand, if the musicians are doing it of their own accord for their own enjoyment then surely they shouldn't be expecting payment for this either?
In my opinion, this creates a "grey area" and, besides taking advantage of the musicians involved, it also makes customers feel uncomfortable or that they are obliged to contribute. After all, many of them might just be in for a "quick pint".
Of course, a punter might have really enjoyed his/her experience in a particular session pub and he/she might even wish to buy the musicians a drink or put some money behind the bar for this purpose. That's his or her business, of course. However, it shouldn't be expected as a matter of course.
I do realise that in some countries this is probably not an uncommon practice but it hasn't really happened much here(Scotland) before...at least, not until recently.
# Posted on November 11th 2009 by Johnny Jay
Re: Tips for the musicians....
The whole world's a grey area. Get used to it.
# Posted on November 11th 2009 by ...
Re: Tips for the musicians....
I am sorely tempted to make a joke about this, but I'll leave it to someone else while I tell you of my experience. I often get tips from punters, especially tourists. I get paid for my performance so I'm not looking for tips, and to be honest I feel belittled when someone on their way out, leaves a one euro coin on the the table. There were occasions in past years when some soul took it on themselves to pass around a pint glass on behalf of the musicians. I always felt embarressed by that, and all those small coins were hard to count anyway.....!
# Posted on November 11th 2009 by Free Reed
Re: Tips for the musicians....
I know of one pub in Edinburgh that has a musician's tip jar on the bar but I don't know how often it is made use of. Certainly I can not remember seeing anyone encouraging people to contribute to it although the banter from one of the members of staff in there, also a musician, tends to be the most entertaining aspect of a trip to Edinburgh.
# Posted on November 11th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Tips for the musicians....
Recently, an anonymous kindly punter at our Tuesday session left us with a £20 note for the drinks (that's about 7 pints, give or take).
# Posted on November 11th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: Tips for the musicians....
Important tip for all musicians, don't give up the day job.
Dave H
# Posted on November 11th 2009 by Dave Hanson
Re: Tips for the musicians....
How things change! According to some sources, back in history one pound sterling was the equivalent of 16oz of silver (240 sterling silver coins made up one pound in weight).
Today you’d have to pay something like at least 169.44 pounds sterling to buy that same pound of silver; which means, in the current example, that where formerly your twenty pounds could buy you twenty pounds of silver, today it is enough for only around 7 pints of Guinness so they say; whereas if you still had your 20 pounds of silver, you’d be able to cash it in for pounds sterling and buy something like 1,189 pints of Guinness.
Here's a tip: Someone’s getting short-changed.
(“There is some uncertainty as to the origin of the term "pound sterling". Some sources say it dates back to Anglo-Saxon times, when coins called sterlings were minted from silver; 240 of these sterlings weighed one pound, and large payments came to be made in "pounds of sterlings".[7]” (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pound_sterling))
# Posted on November 11th 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: Tips for the musicians....
Free beer all night is a very happy compromise, we have found. We're not being formally paid so we can stop for a few natters. It ain't a gig so no-one objects to that.
# Posted on November 11th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Tips for the musicians....
M.E. Sterling, from Esterlings, i.e. 'men of the east' a name for the Hanse merchants of London (according to Skeat) Now if only I knew what Hanse merchants were...
# Posted on November 11th 2009 by gam
Re: Tips for the musicians....
Merchants of the Hanseatic League, apparently, though I'm none the wiser ...
# Posted on November 11th 2009 by ethical blend
Re: Tips for the musicians....
We got so tired of people asking us where our tip jar was that we put one out.
# Posted on November 11th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Tips for the musicians....
At most Connecticut sessions all beverages are on the house. So session musicians make sure to tip the server.
# Posted on November 11th 2009 by Threewood
Re: Tips for the musicians....
Look, if attractive young women aren't biting their lower lips while pleadingly thrusting money and phone numbers into your pockets while you're playing, well, I suppose some people need to improve their chops.
# Posted on November 11th 2009 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: Tips for the musicians....
At a pub I previously played, the owner, being very grateful for the session, not only provided free drinks, but also insisted in putting out a tip jar. His bar staff were also very friendly, so we decided to reward them by saving the tips all year, and then buying gift certificates for each of them at holiday time. The session was a ripper, and the punters reacted accordingly, so these gifts were quite impressive. Of course this required that one of the more trustworthy players open a bank account, and do the weekly deposit duty, but 'twas worth watching to looks on the faces of the staff when handed a hefty check at the end of the year.
# Posted on November 11th 2009 by jtrout
Re: Tips for the musicians....
We receive tips for our 'closed' sessions (only compensated by a free meal on the pubs) that we treat more like gigs - we're scheduled to show up; but no tips are expected at our open sessions each week. Once in a while they are pressed upon us and we deal with them accordingly.
# Posted on November 11th 2009 by vonnieestes
Re: Tips for the musicians....
Punters being hustled to put in tips for the players doesn't sound good at all to me.
They might come all over critical and say, "They're not all that good really, it's a bit of a cheek..."
Or become irate when they see sessioners sleeping, contemplating their drinks, eating, chewing the fat with others, going out for smokes, propping up the bar, trying out instruments they can't play, reading the pub newspaper, or molesting the cat.
They will say, "They're freeloaders! Make them do National Service! Lock them up! Send them back!" - and other such things.
The behaviours described are my own. They are how actually I passed my student grant years, but my manner of life was then hidden from the public, not practised in full view of an affronted nation, as is that of a session.
It is a baleful thing to be accountable in the heat of one's pleasures - e.g., while snoozing till the rest of them have finished playing some boring set, or scanning the rag to see how many of the local convicts you know. (Indeed, at the best of times my desire to be accountable is rather less than my desire to play The Rakes Of Mallow a dozen times.)
So I feel the practice of institutionally-urged "tipping for the musicians" is much to be discouraged.
# Posted on November 11th 2009 by nicholas
Re: Tips for the musicians....
@ gam and ethical blend (and although this is completely off topic...):
The Hanse was an organisation of merchants around the Baltic sea and places near to it. They were closely connected to their home cities. This is the reason why for example the city of Hamburg (Germany) has HH on its number plate. It means Hansestadt (stadt=city) Hamburg. The same for Luebeck, Bremen and a lot of other towns and cities, not only in Germany.
# Posted on November 11th 2009 by Shylie
Re: Tips for the musicians....
Thanks Shylie. I knew something (but not much) about the Hanseatic League. I'm still scratching my head about the Esterlings, though ... I mean, I see the point, but I can't quite make the jigsaw piece fit ...
# Posted on November 11th 2009 by ethical blend
Re: Tips for the musicians....
Reading the wikipedia articles I have the feeling the historians seem to have a similar problem...
# Posted on November 11th 2009 by Shylie
Re: Tips for the musicians....
Currently, Hanse is a builder of very fine sailboats. I doubt that the tip jar will allow me to trade in my ancient Florida-built vessel anytime soon. (No offense intended, SWFL Fiddler).
# Posted on November 12th 2009 by oldstrings
Re: Tips for the musicians....
From my memory pockets I pull up bits of fluff:-
1 The silver in mine near the area where the Hanse merchants originated was of particularly good quality, and much sought after by London merchants.
2. The coins made with this silver had a star printed on them. The word sterling comes from this star design, (called staerling, or something) not the word for east. I don't know where I collected this fluff, but it is as good an explanation as any.
# Posted on November 12th 2009 by gam
Re: Tips for the musicians....
I opened this thread expecting "tips" for musicians, as if useful information. I guess I misinterpreted.
If anyone wanted to give me money for my playing, I would definately assume it was charity.
# Posted on November 12th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Tips for the musicians....
Lots of musicians play at places that don't pay them. The deal is they can sell their CD's, usually get free drinks/meal and "pass the hat". Some clubs will actively ask patrons to pass the hat for money for the musicians, but most do not.
It's a sorry state of things when patrons do not pay for their music.
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by celticagent
Re: Tips for the musicians....
Indeed. It's the social contract. You want civilization? Pay your artists. (lol)
# Posted on November 17th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler