I'm trying to figure out a tune that would go well as a medley with Rolling in the Ryegrass. I just learned by reading some older posts here in thesession.org that Rolling is a single reel. Would it be against all rules of trad. music to play a double reel as the second tune in the set, or should I search only for another single reel? Suggestions, please!
Rolling in the Ryegrass is one of those tunes I tend to throw into a set on the fly without any planning. I can't even remember what tunes it might have gone well with.
Mick O'Brien and Caoimhin O Raghallaigh play it after "Woman of the House" on their wonderful "Kitty Lie Over" album.
On one of my other favourite albums "Mo Chairdín", Paul Brock plays it in a set The Hut in the Bog/Rolling in the Ryegrass/The Monastereden Fancy.
I 've played Rolling on the Ryegrass followed by The Boys of Malin for many years now, the last time around of the first tune finishing on E, thus giving the opportunity for a short break (duration one crotchet & one quaver) before launching into The Boys of Malin.
Dodger is correct, there are no "rules" about mixing different types of tune in a set. In practice though, a set consists of tunes of the same type, perhaps for convenience because some players may find it difficult to segue into a reel straight from a jig without losing the plot, but I think another reason may be that a figure in set dancing historically is almost always danced to a single type of tune (reel, jig, polka, hornpipe). There are a few exceptions, like The Three Tunes set dance which uses two tunes in 2/4 and one in 6/8.
Even with 'the dance "The Three Tunes", it still comes down to the count. The dance and the music are in synch with each other. If you are playing for dance there are dances that take better single reels than double reels, and vice versa. However, where a count does exist, such as the endless number of 32 bar dances, or divisible by that, or 16 bars, then if you mix the two forms, single and double, at least make sure you do an even number of repetitions of a 2-part single reel ~ in other words 4 times through before switching to a double reel, or the other way round too, to fit the dance. Another option is a 4-part single reel, which is already 32 bars. The change from a 2-part double reel into a 4-part single is a kick.
Even with dances that are spread out, those that have a predominantly 16 bar content, the figures, work best with a double reel, while those with shorter 8 bar content recieve and respond to single reels quite nicely...\
Those two differences are not just in the count, also in the feel, how the tunes drive along and sound ~ whether the parts are built from 8 bars or 4 bars, one AABB equaling 32 bars, the other 16...
I quite like playing "Rolling in the Ryegrass" as a highland fling...but I like the reel too...
We play Woman o' the house, Rolling in the Ryegrass, Killavil Fancy, Julia Delaney d&e - but session convention is not our driving force, danceability is more our concern.
Thanks, everyone! You've all given some great suggestions! So far I like Wind that Shakes the Barley best, but I'm still tinkering around with some of the others. My band is rarely in a session (I have yet to find a session in the north of Sweden), so our gigs are often pubs or supper clubs, which means the focus is on danceability.
Wind that shakes the barley/ Rollin in the ryegrass/ The traveller (can't remember what order we'd play them in) is a good combination
The last two tunes were played together by Eoghan McAogáin on an album callled The Clare Hills, they go particularly well together I find... I think we used to stick castle kelly or the old copperplate in at the end there too in a flute/banjo combo...
ps, if you want the track give me your email address and I'll send it on to ya
As the suggestions currently stand, single to double reels ~
Single Reels, 2-parts ~
Rolling in the Ryegrass
The Hut in the Bog
The Monasteraden Fancy
The Morning Star
The Humours of Tulla
The Killavil Fancy (single / double)
The Boyne Hunt
The Red Haired Lass
Wind that Shakes the Barley
The Traveller (single / double)
Julia Delaney's
Single Reel, 3 parts ~
The Boys of Malin
Double reels, 2-part ~
The Woman of the House
The Bird in the Bush
The Green Gates
Father Kelly's 1
Father Kelly's 2
The Woman of the House
The Killavil Fancy (double / single)
The Traveller (double / single)
People say single reel for reels where the 8 bars of each part are not repeated. e.g. within a mile of dublin e.g. the mountain rd e.g. rolling in the ryegrass e.g. the wind that shakes
These are usually tunes where the 8 bar part itself breaks down into 4 bar sections that repeat with slight variation.
Some tunes sometimes get played as singles (8-bar) parts and sometimes as doubles (16-bar parts), which can lead to confusion.
Must be my pre-coffee state, but I read "The Clare Hills, they go particularly well together" and thought, "well, that's lucky. Be a shame if they didn't".
A classic single reel can follow similar lines to a highland fling, and many a fling now exists as a single reel. In this 'classic' sense, the A-part is 4 bars, not 8, and those 4 bars repeat, A-A = 4-4 (1-8) ~ then the B-part comes along, 1-4 (9-12), and then repeats 1-2 (13 -14) being usually the same, but with a second ending, usually bars 3 & 4 (15 & 16) of the repeat. It's here, with that part, the B-part, that sometimes the whole thing gets repeated and the tune can become a double reel where each repeat is now 8 bars long, or A-A-B-B = 8-8-8-8 = 32 bars, instead of as a single reels of 16 bars = A-A-B-B = 4-4-4-4...
A single jig goes quarter note, eighth note, quarter note, eighth note instead of eighth note, eighth note, eighth note, eighth note, eighth note, eighth note. The difference between a single, and a double reel, however, is whether or not the sections repeat (or like ceolachan says, whether or not the sections are four bars long as opposed to eight bars long). And a treble jig has nothing to do with the rhythm, instead it has to do with the way a dancer dances to the tune.
And people wonder why we are confused!
Oh, and the woman who taught me Rolling in the Rye Grass used to pair it with Fermoy Lasses. Enough different to be interesting, but with some similarities in the feel of the tune.
I remember this discussion came up before, and I was surprised to see Rolling in the Rye Grass paired with the Wind that Shakes the Barley--too similar for my taste, to coexist well in a set. Although, I guess on an album cover, you could refer to it as the "Crop Rotation Set."
Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
I'm trying to figure out a tune that would go well as a medley with Rolling in the Ryegrass. I just learned by reading some older posts here in thesession.org that Rolling is a single reel. Would it be against all rules of trad. music to play a double reel as the second tune in the set, or should I search only for another single reel? Suggestions, please!
# Posted on November 8th 2009 by Quarter Irish
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
Rolling in the Ryegrass is one of those tunes I tend to throw into a set on the fly without any planning. I can't even remember what tunes it might have gone well with.
Mick O'Brien and Caoimhin O Raghallaigh play it after "Woman of the House" on their wonderful "Kitty Lie Over" album.
On one of my other favourite albums "Mo Chairdín", Paul Brock plays it in a set The Hut in the Bog/Rolling in the Ryegrass/The Monastereden Fancy.
# Posted on November 8th 2009 by Craic Addict
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
I 've played Rolling on the Ryegrass followed by The Boys of Malin for many years now, the last time around of the first tune finishing on E, thus giving the opportunity for a short break (duration one crotchet & one quaver) before launching into The Boys of Malin.
Just my 2 cts.
# Posted on November 8th 2009 by Henk Bos
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
I just picked up a whistle and played Rolling in the Ryegrass, and the first tune that came out after it was The Bird in the Bush... It seems to work
# Posted on November 8th 2009 by Craic Addict
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
Follow it with Green Gates
# Posted on November 8th 2009 by murfbox
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
Morning Star, Rolling in the Ryegrass and Humours of Tulla.
# Posted on November 8th 2009 by blaenclydach
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
You could also precede it with Father Kelly's.
# Posted on November 8th 2009 by lazyhound
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
The wind that shakes the barley goes well after it
# Posted on November 8th 2009 by debroos
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
Ever since "airport" turned me on to the pairing, I have to follow Ryegrass with the 10 £ Float. Can't help it, it's become a reflex.
# Posted on November 8th 2009 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
Dodger is correct, there are no "rules" about mixing different types of tune in a set. In practice though, a set consists of tunes of the same type, perhaps for convenience because some players may find it difficult to segue into a reel straight from a jig without losing the plot, but I think another reason may be that a figure in set dancing historically is almost always danced to a single type of tune (reel, jig, polka, hornpipe). There are a few exceptions, like The Three Tunes set dance which uses two tunes in 2/4 and one in 6/8.
# Posted on November 8th 2009 by lazyhound
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
Even with 'the dance "The Three Tunes", it still comes down to the count. The dance and the music are in synch with each other. If you are playing for dance there are dances that take better single reels than double reels, and vice versa. However, where a count does exist, such as the endless number of 32 bar dances, or divisible by that, or 16 bars, then if you mix the two forms, single and double, at least make sure you do an even number of repetitions of a 2-part single reel ~ in other words 4 times through before switching to a double reel, or the other way round too, to fit the dance. Another option is a 4-part single reel, which is already 32 bars. The change from a 2-part double reel into a 4-part single is a kick.
Even with dances that are spread out, those that have a predominantly 16 bar content, the figures, work best with a double reel, while those with shorter 8 bar content recieve and respond to single reels quite nicely...\
Those two differences are not just in the count, also in the feel, how the tunes drive along and sound ~ whether the parts are built from 8 bars or 4 bars, one AABB equaling 32 bars, the other 16...
I quite like playing "Rolling in the Ryegrass" as a highland fling...but I like the reel too...
# Posted on November 8th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
In trad there are few rules, only opinion.
We play Woman o' the house, Rolling in the Ryegrass, Killavil Fancy, Julia Delaney d&e - but session convention is not our driving force, danceability is more our concern.
# Posted on November 9th 2009 by Toppish
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
We play: Wind that Shakes the Barley / Rollin' in the Rye Grass
# Posted on November 9th 2009 by justwhistle
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
Thanks, everyone! You've all given some great suggestions! So far I like Wind that Shakes the Barley best, but I'm still tinkering around with some of the others. My band is rarely in a session (I have yet to find a session in the north of Sweden), so our gigs are often pubs or supper clubs, which means the focus is on danceability.
# Posted on November 9th 2009 by Quarter Irish
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
we play : Boyne Hunt (D) - Rolling in the ryegrass (D) - red haired lass ( in G)
# Posted on November 9th 2009 by fiddlemax
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
Wind that shakes the barley/ Rollin in the ryegrass/ The traveller (can't remember what order we'd play them in) is a good combination
The last two tunes were played together by Eoghan McAogáin on an album callled The Clare Hills, they go particularly well together I find... I think we used to stick castle kelly or the old copperplate in at the end there too in a flute/banjo combo...
ps, if you want the track give me your email address and I'll send it on to ya
# Posted on November 9th 2009 by Kelloggs
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
As the suggestions currently stand, single to double reels ~
Single Reels, 2-parts ~
Rolling in the Ryegrass
The Hut in the Bog
The Monasteraden Fancy
The Morning Star
The Humours of Tulla
The Killavil Fancy (single / double)
The Boyne Hunt
The Red Haired Lass
Wind that Shakes the Barley
The Traveller (single / double)
Julia Delaney's
Single Reel, 3 parts ~
The Boys of Malin
Double reels, 2-part ~
The Woman of the House
The Bird in the Bush
The Green Gates
Father Kelly's 1
Father Kelly's 2
The Woman of the House
The Killavil Fancy (double / single)
The Traveller (double / single)
# Posted on November 9th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
This talk of single reels is just confusing me. Why is Wind That Shakes the Barley a single reel?
# Posted on November 9th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
People say single reel for reels where the 8 bars of each part are not repeated. e.g. within a mile of dublin e.g. the mountain rd e.g. rolling in the ryegrass e.g. the wind that shakes
These are usually tunes where the 8 bar part itself breaks down into 4 bar sections that repeat with slight variation.
Some tunes sometimes get played as singles (8-bar) parts and sometimes as doubles (16-bar parts), which can lead to confusion.
- chris
# Posted on November 9th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
Must be my pre-coffee state, but I read "The Clare Hills, they go particularly well together" and thought, "well, that's lucky. Be a shame if they didn't".
# Posted on November 9th 2009 by Jon Kiparsky
Single Reels & Double Reels
A classic single reel can follow similar lines to a highland fling, and many a fling now exists as a single reel. In this 'classic' sense, the A-part is 4 bars, not 8, and those 4 bars repeat, A-A = 4-4 (1-8) ~ then the B-part comes along, 1-4 (9-12), and then repeats 1-2 (13 -14) being usually the same, but with a second ending, usually bars 3 & 4 (15 & 16) of the repeat. It's here, with that part, the B-part, that sometimes the whole thing gets repeated and the tune can become a double reel where each repeat is now 8 bars long, or A-A-B-B = 8-8-8-8 = 32 bars, instead of as a single reels of 16 bars = A-A-B-B = 4-4-4-4...
# Posted on November 9th 2009 by ceolachan
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
A single jig goes quarter note, eighth note, quarter note, eighth note instead of eighth note, eighth note, eighth note, eighth note, eighth note, eighth note. The difference between a single, and a double reel, however, is whether or not the sections repeat (or like ceolachan says, whether or not the sections are four bars long as opposed to eight bars long). And a treble jig has nothing to do with the rhythm, instead it has to do with the way a dancer dances to the tune.
And people wonder why we are confused!
# Posted on November 10th 2009 by AlBrown
Re: Tune to medley with Rollin in the Ryegrass
Oh, and the woman who taught me Rolling in the Rye Grass used to pair it with Fermoy Lasses. Enough different to be interesting, but with some similarities in the feel of the tune.
I remember this discussion came up before, and I was surprised to see Rolling in the Rye Grass paired with the Wind that Shakes the Barley--too similar for my taste, to coexist well in a set. Although, I guess on an album cover, you could refer to it as the "Crop Rotation Set."
# Posted on November 10th 2009 by AlBrown