having recently had a painful mis-hap with a Martin at a session, i intend to buy a cheap dreadnought.
i found a solid spruce top blue moon at hobgoblin, which felt and sounded ok, tuners seemed ok, truss rod present, neck wasnt too fat, frets ok, reasonable thud at the bottom end, so i'm tempted. it costs £75 (!)
ive never bought such a cheap guitar. i'm looking for forbodings and tails of woe to stop me making a mistake.
is it possible for a guitar to be this cheap without being nasty?
I once bought a very cheap guitar that wasn't at all nasty. Maybe it was a one-off: fortuitous combination of woods etc. If you have tried it, and you like it, £75 sounds like a good deal to me.
it would only be for sessions.
i heard that dirt cheap guitars deteriorate over the years, as opposed to quality guitars, which improve with age (until they get dropped at 3am ).
indeed bb, i heard that crafter and vintage are also good and cheapish. but ffs, a dreadnought for £75, its worth more as firewood !!! doesnt make sense to me.......
Better a cheap used guitar than a cheap new one, in my book. Anything that's likely to go wrong with the new one is still in the future. If you put a twenty year old Yamaha next to a new one, you can be sure the old one will still be about like it is today, not so sure with the new one. And some of the late seventies Yamahas, those were some really stellar guitars.
That said, there are costs to weigh in on the older ones - any cheap guitar is likely to need some setup work (intonation, nut and saddle height, little things) but the older one is likely to be closer to its first fret work. That's not so bad, but it is a cost to factor in. I've had the frets on my Epiphone dealt with once in the twenty years I've been playing it, it's a pretty low cost, amortised over the time.
Don't know about cheap guitars not improving over time, I think it depends on the workmanship and materials. A solid-top instrument, played in, will usually sound better after a few years of playing, no matter what it cost originally. A well-made instrument will not show the signs of aging - loose braces, ill-set frets, general cruftiness of age - that a shoddily made one will, but again, my Epiphone ($180 brand new, in 1988) has had no troubles in that line, and it was made in the Samick factory with all the other Korean imports.
My advice: Trust your instincts. If the guitar feels shoddy, don't buy it. If there's play in the tuners on a new guitar, wonder if the other components are the cheapest the manufacturer could find. (some play in older tuners is normal, and they're easy enough to replace - it's not a deal killer, it's just a sign) If there's visible glue or finish sloppiness, wonder what the maker is tolerating in where you can't see it. (sometimes, though, you look at a guitar and you see some rippling in the finish, but you feel like the construction is sound - trust your instinct) If a new guitar is out of tune in the shop, wonder who you're buying from that either doesn't tune their guitars or puts guitars on the wall that don't hold their tuning. (but then, people do play them, and some people just make guitars go out of tune, so again, it's just something to think about)
the one I like to play now I only paid $300 dollars for. If it's got a strait neck, tunes up, and has reasonable action, I'd actually trust a used one more than a new one
if a guitar has been used and abused and the neck is still strait, that's a real good sign
You can get a decent solid-top for around $300, I wouldn't spend less than that or you'll be looking at a laminate top which would best be used to kindle the fire.
The biggest problem I’ve seen with bargain basement guitars has been with the neck joint. If that joint is not perfectly tight or if the neck is pitched a tiny bit high, you could be looking at a repair job that costs twice as much as the guitar. If you see a crack in the finish at the joint or any other sign that the joint has slipped even very slightly, put it down and walk away.
Also Yamaha nylon string guitars can be very cheap. I also like the sound of nylon strings. Might be worth haveing a look? Craigslist has tonns of guitars of every description that you might like... watch out though... you might get sucked into buying an old rare gem!
I can tell you that a nylon string guitar can't compete with a fiddle for volume. I tried to bring mine down to play with the fellas once, and it just can't cut it
I have a Spainish made nylon string guitar with an ivory saddle peice, too. The thing is a cannon. Still, I had to work my butt off playing as loud as I could and still a single fiddle overpowered me
there is a reason the nylon string guitar is a solo instrument
that's not to say they aren't nice instruments, but I wasn't able to use mine in even a small get together.
You already know the answer. The only thing you left out was balance like across the strings and intonation (harmonics) but no doubt you checked that. Second hand = stable. Only advice would be to play it again in a different mood and if at all possible at a significantly different temperature.
Blueridge makes a few "cheap" models which aren't too bad. Hardware sucks, but it's better than it was. Parkwood makes a nice dread. Alvarez by Yairi end up on eBay for $200-$400. Same for orange and pink label Yamahas. Washburn Southwest and Timbercraft series are nice deals. Some older US-made Washburns can be had for under $700 and play like a guitar worth twice as much.
Stay away from the new Epiphone Mastertones, unless you want two tops. They split along the bookmatch, and won't intone correctly when they don't split.
The music shop I teach through currently offers Fender acoustics for $199 USD including a sufficient "hardshell" case. They're adequate guitars--nothing special, but not crap either. Plywood top, sides, and back, but they're set up well (comfortable action, nice neck, frets don't shred your fingers up and down the neck). The next best thing I've found is an $800 USD Taylor laminate sides and back, solid spruce top. With electronics and a cutaway. A substantial step up, without the $1,200 USD plus price tag. I sold an Alvarez Yari to buy the Taylor. A good decision.
Another alternative to Nate Ryan's Seagull is a different Canadian guitar: "Artiste and Lutherie" starting around $240 USD. Solid spruce tops, great set up, good tone. Some of these are wonderful guitars, without the dent in your bank account.
As mentioned above--play the specific guitar before you fork over the cash.
The Crafters are great value for money, but the cheaper ones have plastic bits on the machine heads which are easily broken, just stick on new machine heads, it's ideal for sessions. A friend of mine was so p*ssed off with airlines damaging his good guitars, he bought a Crafter for flying.
cheap and nasty guitars
cheap and nasty guitars
having recently had a painful mis-hap with a Martin at a session, i intend to buy a cheap dreadnought.
i found a solid spruce top blue moon at hobgoblin, which felt and sounded ok, tuners seemed ok, truss rod present, neck wasnt too fat, frets ok, reasonable thud at the bottom end, so i'm tempted. it costs £75 (!)
ive never bought such a cheap guitar. i'm looking for forbodings and tails of woe to stop me making a mistake.
is it possible for a guitar to be this cheap without being nasty?
# Posted on October 22nd 2009 by rumpole
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
I once bought a very cheap guitar that wasn't at all nasty. Maybe it was a one-off: fortuitous combination of woods etc. If you have tried it, and you like it, £75 sounds like a good deal to me.
# Posted on October 23rd 2009 by gam
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
my brother just bought one of those Takamine lawsuit guitars from a pawn shop - a bit more than (I don't have that on my keyboard)75, but really nice.
# Posted on October 23rd 2009 by airport
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
trust your instincts, 75 is nothing for what you've just said about it
# Posted on October 23rd 2009 by lisaniska
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
You can get a really good new Yamaha for £90.
# Posted on October 23rd 2009 by bodhran bliss
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
it would only be for sessions.
i heard that dirt cheap guitars deteriorate over the years, as opposed to quality guitars, which improve with age (until they get dropped at 3am ).
its probably worth a punt.
whats a takamine lawsuit guitar?
# Posted on October 23rd 2009 by rumpole
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
indeed bb, i heard that crafter and vintage are also good and cheapish. but ffs, a dreadnought for £75, its worth more as firewood !!! doesnt make sense to me.......
# Posted on October 23rd 2009 by rumpole
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
Hmmm. Guitar... cheap and nasty... redundant?
# Posted on October 23rd 2009 by tuckered out
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
I fking love cheap and nasty. Guitars, whistles, beer, women. You can not go wrong! Go for it! Buy two!
# Posted on October 23rd 2009 by shanty
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
lawsuit Takamine:
http://bit.ly/O2sbh
(note the logo on the headstock)
In the 70s & 80s Takamine make such amazing copies of Martin guitars that they were threatened with a lawsuit
# Posted on October 23rd 2009 by airport
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
Better a cheap used guitar than a cheap new one, in my book. Anything that's likely to go wrong with the new one is still in the future. If you put a twenty year old Yamaha next to a new one, you can be sure the old one will still be about like it is today, not so sure with the new one. And some of the late seventies Yamahas, those were some really stellar guitars.
That said, there are costs to weigh in on the older ones - any cheap guitar is likely to need some setup work (intonation, nut and saddle height, little things) but the older one is likely to be closer to its first fret work. That's not so bad, but it is a cost to factor in. I've had the frets on my Epiphone dealt with once in the twenty years I've been playing it, it's a pretty low cost, amortised over the time.
Don't know about cheap guitars not improving over time, I think it depends on the workmanship and materials. A solid-top instrument, played in, will usually sound better after a few years of playing, no matter what it cost originally. A well-made instrument will not show the signs of aging - loose braces, ill-set frets, general cruftiness of age - that a shoddily made one will, but again, my Epiphone ($180 brand new, in 1988) has had no troubles in that line, and it was made in the Samick factory with all the other Korean imports.
My advice: Trust your instincts. If the guitar feels shoddy, don't buy it. If there's play in the tuners on a new guitar, wonder if the other components are the cheapest the manufacturer could find. (some play in older tuners is normal, and they're easy enough to replace - it's not a deal killer, it's just a sign) If there's visible glue or finish sloppiness, wonder what the maker is tolerating in where you can't see it. (sometimes, though, you look at a guitar and you see some rippling in the finish, but you feel like the construction is sound - trust your instinct) If a new guitar is out of tune in the shop, wonder who you're buying from that either doesn't tune their guitars or puts guitars on the wall that don't hold their tuning. (but then, people do play them, and some people just make guitars go out of tune, so again, it's just something to think about)
# Posted on October 23rd 2009 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
the one I like to play now I only paid $300 dollars for. If it's got a strait neck, tunes up, and has reasonable action, I'd actually trust a used one more than a new one
if a guitar has been used and abused and the neck is still strait, that's a real good sign
# Posted on October 23rd 2009 by Nate Ryan
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
You can get a decent solid-top for around $300, I wouldn't spend less than that or you'll be looking at a laminate top which would best be used to kindle the fire.
Check out Seagull or Recording King.
# Posted on October 23rd 2009 by PuckingFiper
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
Seagull made the very guitar I was speaking of. Best $300 bucks you can spend
# Posted on October 23rd 2009 by Nate Ryan
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
The biggest problem I’ve seen with bargain basement guitars has been with the neck joint. If that joint is not perfectly tight or if the neck is pitched a tiny bit high, you could be looking at a repair job that costs twice as much as the guitar. If you see a crack in the finish at the joint or any other sign that the joint has slipped even very slightly, put it down and walk away.
# Posted on October 23rd 2009 by Bob himself
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
Also Yamaha nylon string guitars can be very cheap. I also like the sound of nylon strings. Might be worth haveing a look? Craigslist has tonns of guitars of every description that you might like... watch out though... you might get sucked into buying an old rare gem!
Eul.
# Posted on October 23rd 2009 by Eulic McGee
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
cheap guitars are a bit like cheap tin whistles.
You go through alot of them until you find the one you like.
Most play like c**p. But occasionally you find one that works for you.
I can't imagine buying a guitar off craigs list unless I had a chance to play it for a week or so.
# Posted on October 23rd 2009 by zippydw
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
I can tell you that a nylon string guitar can't compete with a fiddle for volume. I tried to bring mine down to play with the fellas once, and it just can't cut it
I have a Spainish made nylon string guitar with an ivory saddle peice, too. The thing is a cannon. Still, I had to work my butt off playing as loud as I could and still a single fiddle overpowered me
there is a reason the nylon string guitar is a solo instrument
that's not to say they aren't nice instruments, but I wasn't able to use mine in even a small get together.
# Posted on October 23rd 2009 by Nate Ryan
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
You already know the answer. The only thing you left out was balance like across the strings and intonation (harmonics) but no doubt you checked that. Second hand = stable. Only advice would be to play it again in a different mood and if at all possible at a significantly different temperature.
# Posted on October 23rd 2009 by Plasterboard
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
Blueridge makes a few "cheap" models which aren't too bad. Hardware sucks, but it's better than it was. Parkwood makes a nice dread. Alvarez by Yairi end up on eBay for $200-$400. Same for orange and pink label Yamahas. Washburn Southwest and Timbercraft series are nice deals. Some older US-made Washburns can be had for under $700 and play like a guitar worth twice as much.
Stay away from the new Epiphone Mastertones, unless you want two tops. They split along the bookmatch, and won't intone correctly when they don't split.
# Posted on October 25th 2009 by gravelwalks
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
The music shop I teach through currently offers Fender acoustics for $199 USD including a sufficient "hardshell" case. They're adequate guitars--nothing special, but not crap either. Plywood top, sides, and back, but they're set up well (comfortable action, nice neck, frets don't shred your fingers up and down the neck). The next best thing I've found is an $800 USD Taylor laminate sides and back, solid spruce top. With electronics and a cutaway. A substantial step up, without the $1,200 USD plus price tag. I sold an Alvarez Yari to buy the Taylor. A good decision.
Another alternative to Nate Ryan's Seagull is a different Canadian guitar: "Artiste and Lutherie" starting around $240 USD. Solid spruce tops, great set up, good tone. Some of these are wonderful guitars, without the dent in your bank account.
As mentioned above--play the specific guitar before you fork over the cash.
# Posted on October 25th 2009 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: cheap and nasty guitars
The Crafters are great value for money, but the cheaper ones have plastic bits on the machine heads which are easily broken, just stick on new machine heads, it's ideal for sessions. A friend of mine was so p*ssed off with airlines damaging his good guitars, he bought a Crafter for flying.
# Posted on October 25th 2009 by tirvaluk