I am hopefully going to be aquiring a fiddle soon but I have looked around in my travel area and can not find a fiddle teacher. So my plan is to take violin lessons and learn the basics.
I guess my question is, are there base grounds between the fiddle and violin? Could I take lessons for a while then just pick up a fiddle music book and work on that? Or even bring a fiddle music book to a violin teacher and see if they would be willing to teach from that?
Search terms might be "fiddle violin classical learn", you'll find more information than you maybe wanted.
Are you wanting to play Irish? Scottish? Cape Breton?
I would be pretty surprised if there aren't some fiddle teachers around Toronto. The first thing to do might be to look in the Sessions list on this site for the Toronto sessions. There are several listed (although, that list can be deceiving, with defunct sessions, and others that aren't listed for various reasons). Then try going to a couple of sessions to listen. Not only will listening be extremely useful in your development as a future player, it's also a way to meet players around your area. Once you get to meet those players, it will be easier to find a fiddle teacher.
And hopefully you didn't just start a "can of worms" discussion thread that devolves into a flame war about learning from written music. In general, you can NOT learn to play this music from a book. A book can't write all the little bits that actually make the music sound Irish (or Scottish, or Breton...) So, while you may be able to get some physical technique for playing your instrument from violin lessons, and the notes of some traditional tunes from books, you will not be able to learn what you need to play traditional music properly without immersing yourself in it. And the easiest way to do that is to find other people that play it properly, and learn from them.
If you are interested in Irish fiddling, here's a link that might prove useful (I'm listing this particular page because I'm impressed with the performer/instructor lineup):
fiddlecanadian, you say you are "very addicted to the fiddle and Irish folk songs". I'm assuming you mean what we call tunes rather than songs, ie jigs and reels etc. (it's a common mistake of no importance).
If you are indeed addicted to the tunes, then no amount of classical training can do you any harm. Go for it, but stay focused on your addiction.
However, Toronto's a big place. I'd be much surprised if the wasn't an established community of diddley musicians you could hitch up with. A quick seach for sessions in Toronto here gives eleven. Look up these places in the phone book and give 'em a ring.
is there a difference between jigs and reels? -- fiddlecanadian
Yes, there is a difference. They are two different *types* of tunes; each with their own distinctive rhythmic structure.
The main types of Irish tunes are:
Reels
Jigs
Hornpipes
Polkas
There are also:
Slip Jigs (a different type of jig)
Slides
Mazurkas (borrowed from Polish folk music)
Waltzes
Strathspeys (borrowed from Scottish trad.)
Each type of tune has it's own distinctive sound and rhythm. A lot of listening is the only way to really learn the differences....
Toronto has more irish music than places like Denver, almost as much as the bigger cities in the states (Boston, New York, Chicago). I mean, at one point its nickname *was* little Belfast.
Go to Dora Keogh's on a Thursday or Sunday. Get lessons from Patrick Ourceau, or one of the other fine fiddlers in the city. (Jim McGee, Dan McDonald, Pat Simmonds, etc)
Yes, plan on going to the Chris Langan weekend next year.
Also, yes, jigs and reels are very different. What and who are you listening to?
KeepFiddlin' : That's a very weird and lopsided assessment of irish tune types!!
Polkas above slip jigs? And slides?
Also, strathspeys are scottish, *not* irish at all. In irish music they become and are called flings (sometimes highland flings). You also forgot to mention barndances, schottishes, germans (never mind that these are all similar if not the exact same thing!), single jigs (similar to slides) and slow airs.... All more important than waltzes I'd say.
F C - I've often heard of people starting to play Trad Music from scratch but was never too sure what 'from scratch' meant. I think your question about 'the difference between jigs and reels' has given me a perfect example of' what 'from scratch' means.
However in answer to your query. In simple terms........
A Jig is a certain type of a dance, and the tunes played for that particular dance are played in 6/8 timing. There are many thousands of jig tunes.
A Reel is a certain type of a dance, and the tunes played for that particular dance are played in 4/4 timing. There are many thousands of reel tunes.
Lastly you don't have to have somebody dancing while you are playing those thousands of tunes, you can play them just for enjoyment which is what the music is all about!
Good Luck...........
in toronto as i mention offline try both Anne Lederman for a variety of fiddle styles..from Cape Breton to irish with some old tyme thrown in for good measure.
she's excellent. does both private and group lessons...contact the Royal Conservatory...i beleive she runs her 'celtic' fiddle group lessons out of there.
Patrick Ourceau is also the best around. He does private and group.
However that said, you need to do some homework of your own...so go buy Matt Crantich's Irish Fiddle Book and the cd to go with.
Also go buy Cathal hayden's cd rom on learning to play irish fiddle. it's excellent actually.
Don't go to Dora Keogh's except to listen...it's far too advanced a session. Strictly irish. But do go and listen for a year or two and you'll make both contacts with musicians there and learn what kind of tunes get played.
In the meantime, I'd contact Anne Lederman who can give you all the basics of technique as well as tune types. Then perhaps go to Patrick Ourceau.
Sounds like you will be able to find a fiddle teacher, but if you do happen to go to a violin teacher, that wouldn't be bad for the first year or so, because you'll just be learning the basics anyway---drawing the bow, developing your left hand, getting a good tone, etc. Definitely don't take a fiddle book to a classical teacher, though! They wouldn't have a clue!
I am actually in Brampton, I put Toronto because I didn't know how many people on here were familiar with Canada. But I am glad there are a lot you in the the area
Try Claude Church....on hwy 10 just north of brampton...there are old tyme sessions there and you'd be welcome...some good fiddle players among them
while there ask around some of the old guys...they are awesome players [of old tyme not irish style] and they could teach you the basics
in the meantime, like Kennedy says, perhaps a year of strictly "intro to the violin" might aid you...then you can get into the fiddle thing...however, there are sometimes dangers inherenet in getting into the "classical" stream.
put it this way, you don't go to a car mechanic to learn how to cure, say, some physical ailment...nor would you go to a doctor if your car is broken.
same thing with Irish music vs. classical. A classical teacher will not understand how to play it so taking a book there etc is useless.
unless you're dealing with Anne Lederman.that's a diff story.
What you learn from a classical teacher will do you no harm physically or in mechanical aspects of technique because the technical demands of classical playing are so high. But they could do you "harm" in style terms.
Learn from an "old fiddler" and there is a risk that you could be learning to do things that will hurt you physically, and hold your playing back in the future until you unlearn them.
With all due respect to mtodd, Anne Lederman is recognised as a Metis fiddle specialist. A style that is considerably removed from and profoundly different to Irish traditional technique. She is also an accomplished Klezmer player by all accounts. The Irish Seniors Society on the Danforth has started Monday night music lessons on all instruments for beginners, children and adults. Patrick Ourceau teaches the fiddle classes. There are a number of excellent traditional fiddle teachers in Toronto representing a broad spectrum of Irish styles all of whom are equally capable of offering top flight instruction and insight.
I understand where you're coming from Pat. And yes, I KNOW she isn't accepted by the Irish players around Toronto as a "specialist" in specifically Irish music. She admits herself she's more generalist with perhaps specialties inother areas. However, she knows her stuff and esp techique, and if someone wants to get started and perhaps get a sense of what *diff types of styles are out there* she's a good place to start. Then if FC wants to get hardcore into Irish, go see Pat Ourceau or the others as suggested. I merely suggest Anne as a solid, knowledgeble place to start.
But as some of us here in Toronto have also found out, being a good players doesn't not necessarily translate into being a good teacher -- esp. where Irish music is concerned.
No worries there mtodd. I believe Anne's introductory classes at the Academy are very popular by the way. She also teaches Canadian styles at the Small World Music series which is another popular course.
fiddlecanadian,
My wife started her fiddle playing with Suzuki lessons in her fourties, and it gave her a good foundation. Although, if you can find a teacher who plays in the style you want to eventually learn, that is the best way to start.
Click on my user name, and in my profile you will find an essay designed to help beginning accompanists, which has a lot of information you will not be interested in, but also a lot of basic information on how to get started at sessions, what the types of tunes are, how they related to dance, what are good beginner tunes, etc--information that will help you as a melody player.
Best of luck in your musical journey--if you derive the satisfaction from it that so many of us do, you will be truly blessed.
another "learning to play" question
another "learning to play" question
Hi everybody,
I am hopefully going to be aquiring a fiddle soon but I have looked around in my travel area and can not find a fiddle teacher. So my plan is to take violin lessons and learn the basics.
I guess my question is, are there base grounds between the fiddle and violin? Could I take lessons for a while then just pick up a fiddle music book and work on that? Or even bring a fiddle music book to a violin teacher and see if they would be willing to teach from that?
Thanks in advance!
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by fiddlecanadian
Re: another "learning to play" question
This topic has been covered a billion times - you should search the site.
The short answer is "yes, but".
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by Hup
Re: another "learning to play" question
Search terms might be "fiddle violin classical learn", you'll find more information than you maybe wanted.
Are you wanting to play Irish? Scottish? Cape Breton?
I would be pretty surprised if there aren't some fiddle teachers around Toronto. The first thing to do might be to look in the Sessions list on this site for the Toronto sessions. There are several listed (although, that list can be deceiving, with defunct sessions, and others that aren't listed for various reasons). Then try going to a couple of sessions to listen. Not only will listening be extremely useful in your development as a future player, it's also a way to meet players around your area. Once you get to meet those players, it will be easier to find a fiddle teacher.
And hopefully you didn't just start a "can of worms" discussion thread that devolves into a flame war about learning from written music. In general, you can NOT learn to play this music from a book. A book can't write all the little bits that actually make the music sound Irish (or Scottish, or Breton...) So, while you may be able to get some physical technique for playing your instrument from violin lessons, and the notes of some traditional tunes from books, you will not be able to learn what you need to play traditional music properly without immersing yourself in it. And the easiest way to do that is to find other people that play it properly, and learn from them.
Good luck!
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by Reverend
Re: another "learning to play" question
If you are interested in Irish fiddling, here's a link that might prove useful (I'm listing this particular page because I'm impressed with the performer/instructor lineup):
http://www.chrislangan.ca/html/performers.htm
The event itself was some months ago, but you could try the contact information, or the sponsors, to get a referral.
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by tuckered out
Re: another "learning to play" question
fiddlecanadian, you say you are "very addicted to the fiddle and Irish folk songs". I'm assuming you mean what we call tunes rather than songs, ie jigs and reels etc. (it's a common mistake of no importance).
If you are indeed addicted to the tunes, then no amount of classical training can do you any harm. Go for it, but stay focused on your addiction.
However, Toronto's a big place. I'd be much surprised if the wasn't an established community of diddley musicians you could hitch up with. A quick seach for sessions in Toronto here gives eleven. Look up these places in the phone book and give 'em a ring.
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: another "learning to play" question
Thanks guys. I wont post another "learning fiddle" post. Promise
In response to the style, I'm not to sure what scottish or Breton sound like but I am sure there are samples out there. I am interested in Irish.
Another question however, is there a difference between jigs and reels? or are they just two words that mean tune?
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by fiddlecanadian
Re: another "learning to play" question
is there a difference between jigs and reels? -- fiddlecanadian
Yes, there is a difference. They are two different *types* of tunes; each with their own distinctive rhythmic structure.
The main types of Irish tunes are:
Reels
Jigs
Hornpipes
Polkas
There are also:
Slip Jigs (a different type of jig)
Slides
Mazurkas (borrowed from Polish folk music)
Waltzes
Strathspeys (borrowed from Scottish trad.)
Each type of tune has it's own distinctive sound and rhythm. A lot of listening is the only way to really learn the differences....
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by KeepFiddlin'
Re: another "learning to play" question
Toronto has more irish music than places like Denver, almost as much as the bigger cities in the states (Boston, New York, Chicago). I mean, at one point its nickname *was* little Belfast.
Go to Dora Keogh's on a Thursday or Sunday. Get lessons from Patrick Ourceau, or one of the other fine fiddlers in the city. (Jim McGee, Dan McDonald, Pat Simmonds, etc)
Yes, plan on going to the Chris Langan weekend next year.
Also, yes, jigs and reels are very different. What and who are you listening to?
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by Nico
Re: another "learning to play" question
KeepFiddlin' : That's a very weird and lopsided assessment of irish tune types!!
Polkas above slip jigs? And slides?
Also, strathspeys are scottish, *not* irish at all. In irish music they become and are called flings (sometimes highland flings). You also forgot to mention barndances, schottishes, germans (never mind that these are all similar if not the exact same thing!), single jigs (similar to slides) and slow airs.... All more important than waltzes I'd say.
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by Nico
Re: another "learning to play" question
F C - I've often heard of people starting to play Trad Music from scratch but was never too sure what 'from scratch' meant. I think your question about 'the difference between jigs and reels' has given me a perfect example of' what 'from scratch' means.
However in answer to your query. In simple terms........
A Jig is a certain type of a dance, and the tunes played for that particular dance are played in 6/8 timing. There are many thousands of jig tunes.
A Reel is a certain type of a dance, and the tunes played for that particular dance are played in 4/4 timing. There are many thousands of reel tunes.
Lastly you don't have to have somebody dancing while you are playing those thousands of tunes, you can play them just for enjoyment which is what the music is all about!
Good Luck...........
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by Free Reed
Re: another "learning to play" question
FC
in toronto as i mention offline try both Anne Lederman for a variety of fiddle styles..from Cape Breton to irish with some old tyme thrown in for good measure.
she's excellent. does both private and group lessons...contact the Royal Conservatory...i beleive she runs her 'celtic' fiddle group lessons out of there.
Patrick Ourceau is also the best around. He does private and group.
However that said, you need to do some homework of your own...so go buy Matt Crantich's Irish Fiddle Book and the cd to go with.
Also go buy Cathal hayden's cd rom on learning to play irish fiddle. it's excellent actually.
Don't go to Dora Keogh's except to listen...it's far too advanced a session. Strictly irish. But do go and listen for a year or two and you'll make both contacts with musicians there and learn what kind of tunes get played.
In the meantime, I'd contact Anne Lederman who can give you all the basics of technique as well as tune types. Then perhaps go to Patrick Ourceau.
both have websites. good luck.
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by mtodd
Re: another "learning to play" question
Fiddlecanadian
Are you my neice?
You can look at my profile info and if you recognise me as your Uncle Dave - well hi!
If not - well - hi anyway.
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by showaddydadito
Re: another "learning to play" question
Sounds like you will be able to find a fiddle teacher, but if you do happen to go to a violin teacher, that wouldn't be bad for the first year or so, because you'll just be learning the basics anyway---drawing the bow, developing your left hand, getting a good tone, etc. Definitely don't take a fiddle book to a classical teacher, though! They wouldn't have a clue!
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by kennedy
Re: another "learning to play" question
Feel free to email me if you would like some info on Toronto Irish fiddle instructors. I'm a student myself.
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by boxielady
Re: another "learning to play" question
Thanks everybody for you help!
I am actually in Brampton, I put Toronto because I didn't know how many people on here were familiar with Canada. But I am glad there are a lot you in the the area
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by fiddlecanadian
Re: another "learning to play" question
brampton? oh well....
Try Claude Church....on hwy 10 just north of brampton...there are old tyme sessions there and you'd be welcome...some good fiddle players among them
while there ask around some of the old guys...they are awesome players [of old tyme not irish style] and they could teach you the basics
in the meantime, like Kennedy says, perhaps a year of strictly "intro to the violin" might aid you...then you can get into the fiddle thing...however, there are sometimes dangers inherenet in getting into the "classical" stream.
put it this way, you don't go to a car mechanic to learn how to cure, say, some physical ailment...nor would you go to a doctor if your car is broken.
same thing with Irish music vs. classical. A classical teacher will not understand how to play it so taking a book there etc is useless.
unless you're dealing with Anne Lederman.that's a diff story.
good luck.
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by mtodd
Re: another "learning to play" question
Just a word in favour of a classical teacher.
Generalising, but.....
What you learn from a classical teacher will do you no harm physically or in mechanical aspects of technique because the technical demands of classical playing are so high. But they could do you "harm" in style terms.
Learn from an "old fiddler" and there is a risk that you could be learning to do things that will hurt you physically, and hold your playing back in the future until you unlearn them.
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by TomB-R
I'm only talking about the early stages in the above post. The first year or so.
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by TomB-R
Re: another "learning to play" question
With all due respect to mtodd, Anne Lederman is recognised as a Metis fiddle specialist. A style that is considerably removed from and profoundly different to Irish traditional technique. She is also an accomplished Klezmer player by all accounts. The Irish Seniors Society on the Danforth has started Monday night music lessons on all instruments for beginners, children and adults. Patrick Ourceau teaches the fiddle classes. There are a number of excellent traditional fiddle teachers in Toronto representing a broad spectrum of Irish styles all of whom are equally capable of offering top flight instruction and insight.
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by Patkiwi
Re: another "learning to play" question
I understand where you're coming from Pat. And yes, I KNOW she isn't accepted by the Irish players around Toronto as a "specialist" in specifically Irish music. She admits herself she's more generalist with perhaps specialties inother areas. However, she knows her stuff and esp techique, and if someone wants to get started and perhaps get a sense of what *diff types of styles are out there* she's a good place to start. Then if FC wants to get hardcore into Irish, go see Pat Ourceau or the others as suggested. I merely suggest Anne as a solid, knowledgeble place to start.
But as some of us here in Toronto have also found out, being a good players doesn't not necessarily translate into being a good teacher -- esp. where Irish music is concerned.
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by mtodd
Re: another "learning to play" question
No worries there mtodd. I believe Anne's introductory classes at the Academy are very popular by the way. She also teaches Canadian styles at the Small World Music series which is another popular course.
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by Patkiwi
Re: another "learning to play" question
fiddlecanadian,
My wife started her fiddle playing with Suzuki lessons in her fourties, and it gave her a good foundation. Although, if you can find a teacher who plays in the style you want to eventually learn, that is the best way to start.
Click on my user name, and in my profile you will find an essay designed to help beginning accompanists, which has a lot of information you will not be interested in, but also a lot of basic information on how to get started at sessions, what the types of tunes are, how they related to dance, what are good beginner tunes, etc--information that will help you as a melody player.
Best of luck in your musical journey--if you derive the satisfaction from it that so many of us do, you will be truly blessed.
# Posted on October 22nd 2009 by AlBrown
Re: another "learning to play" question
No there's nothing wrong with it. Anything you learn will only add to your perspective
# Posted on October 22nd 2009 by Earl Cameron
Re: another "learning to play" question
Brampton.
Then you're no neice of mine.
# Posted on October 22nd 2009 by showaddydadito
Re: another "learning to play" question
AlB...good advice. yes, suzuki would be excellent start. perhaps one year of it. But no more! ;)
# Posted on October 22nd 2009 by mtodd
Re: another "learning to play" question
what does it mean when they say:
1/4 to 4/4 size?
# Posted on October 23rd 2009 by fiddlecanadian