honorary masters degree for fiddle playing, Phd for strumming a BOUZOUKI ! sounds really,really sensible as do all these acedemic awards for commercial sorry I mean traditional irish music
you know it's just a little bit more than ' . . . for just playing music' SilverSpear, these people have dedicated the best part of their lives to this through work, family and (okay) leisure time, setting world standards within the musical form
of anyone, they deserve it (or similar pats on the back) for living ' . . . the real thing' with passion and feeding our curiosity here
Aye, lisaniska. I was being maybe a little bit ironic and facetious. I wouldn't take everything I write literally.
I'd like to see where *anyone* can get a doctorate in a year or two. And here is me panicking because four years doesn't feel like it's going to be enough. I must be a total loser.
You can't call him Dr. Frankie Gavin, as deeor pointed out it's an honorary Masters he was given. He'd need an honorary or a genuine Doctorate to be called Dr. Frankie Gavin. I doubt he gives a sh*te though.....
A PhD normally takes 3 years full-time (which I'm sure is what llig understood and meant), and much longer part-time. Of course, there are some dodgy educational establishments in various parts of the world (not in the UK), which purport to call themselves "universities" and will give you an instant - and completely worthless - masters or doctorate on-line, depending on how much money you are prepared to hand over.
I've come across a few bog-standard PhDs in my time - all done at real universities, btw - and in most cases it seems the guy spent 3 years looking up his ears finding out more and more about less and less. The general expectation, borne out in practice, when these people went into industry as junior managers was that they would be utterly useless for the next couple of years. Eventually though, most of them did make the grade - or went into teaching.
I must assume that you are referring to the online universities in the USA that offer degrees in business or non-clinical degrees in psychology, for example, online. Your post has a tone that suggests there are no legitimate degrees that can be earned online. It is important to note that most degrees CANNOT be earned legitimately online, only those which do not require a physical campus in order to get the same education, such as the type of programs I mentioned above. You certainly can't get an accredited degree in music online. As one who works in the educational sector, I feel it pertinent to point these things out. It still takes four years to complete a baccalaureate at online universities that are accredited with the Higher Learning Commission (mind you, the same accrediting agency that accredites what you would call real universities in the USA), about two more years for a Masters, and another two for a doctorate. But these are programs that can be earned legitimately online. A doctorate in music, or a clinical degree in psychology, or a masters in biology, as examples, cannot be earned onliine by ANY regionally accredited university online, even if the online program were offered by Yale or Cambridge. Granted, there are charlatan organizations that lack such accreditation in the USA that offer online degree programs that are of little value, but even they require coursework. They are not "instant." Please give me an example of an online university that offers a doctorate in music online, and will agree with you that that degree would be nearly if not completely worthless, and it certainly would NOT be an accredited degree.
I apologize for going so off-topic, but I felt compelled to defend a legitimate avenue of study for certain degree programs that appears to be misrepresented here. An online doctorate in music? Where?
As an addendum to my previous post, I do stand corrected on one account. A little online research has revealed that there actually are online schools offering degrees in music. I little further research also revealed that these schools are definately not listed among regionally accredited colleges and universities, so yes, such a degree would be a waste of time and money. However, the main point I was trying to make was that online degrees are not worthless. It depends on the type of degree being pursued, and what research the prospective student does in ensuring the accreditation of the school at which they are looking to attend. Isn't that true of any school or country?
Some years ago I received an email from what was obviously a dodgy institution in the USA offering me a doctorate in view of my "life-time professional attainments". Going on memory I think that "university" quoted $2000 for the privilege, no campus attendance, coursework or dissertation being required. I binned it. A while later, at meeting of my professional institute I found that another member had received an identical email.
Perhaps the numbers of these institutions have diminished over the years. I hope so, for the sad thing is that people can still fall for worthless certificates and diplomas.
I know Jeremy is anti advertising, but maybe he could make some dosh by offering a Masters of Thesession diploma. I've put in the hours. llig leahcim MoT?
Yes, lazyhound, as an American I am somewhat ashamed of the unscrupulous nature of some of what I call the knock-off universities that are prevalent in the USA. There are probably more of them now, not less. I over-reacted a little in my earlier posts and took things personally, and didn't properly acknowledge that these charlatans exist, and in great abundance. There are legitimate online universities in the USA that perform a wonderful service to those who cannot reasonably go to a traditional university, because of full-time jobs, kids, etc. Unfortunately there are also unscrupulous organizations that don't have proper accreditation and offer worthless degrees in the manner you have described, and prey on the ignorance of people who want a degree and a more stable life. Now, in the great wash, it falls on the student to protect themselves and not be ingorant in their choices, but the existance of these "schools" does give online education on the whole a bad rep.
PhDs are not awarded as honorary doctorates. Honorary doctorates are generally Doctor of Letters degrees (DLitt).
Just to reiterate, Frankie Gavin is NOT a Doctor (honorary or otherwise).
Apparently Galway University didn’t think his lifetime contribution to music was as great as some people here seem to. Of course, Ronald Regan got an honorary doctorate from Galway University while he was pumping money into fascist rebel armies in Nicaragua and El Salvador, who killed hundreds of thousands of people through the years of American funding; (remember the protests?) So I wouldn’t regard any gratuitous award from that establishment as an actual honour!
“Anyone can get a bog standard doctorate in just a year or two.”??? I think you’d find it takes much more effort than you think!
All sorts of unworthy people are given doctorates these says. The illiterate dullard Bertie Ahern (former Taoiseach, forced from office for corruption) was given one by some Scottish university. I mean, why not just give them away in corn flakes boxes. But still, Frankie Gavin doesn’t have one!
I don't think anyone should be awarded a college or university degree in music without being required to prove that they can play at least one instrument (something besides a drum such as a bodhran) and without being required to perform in front of an audience at least once in order to earn their degree.
There are no civil honours in Ireland that parallel the British MBEs, OBEs, knighthoods etc. etc. Universities dispense honorary degrees for attainments that in the UK would be recognised with one of the aforementioned.
Some universities require their music faculty students not only to perform in front of an audience but to show ability in composing music. A friend at school who was awarded an organ scholarship at Cambridge found on arrival he had to learn another instrument (his expertise on the piano didn't count), so he chose the viola.
In order to earn my music degree, I was required to take two semesters of piano lessons and one semester of harpsichord lessons. Also, I spent four semesters accompanying voice majors both in rehearsal and when they performed at recitals in the school auditorium.
Excuse me for asking for clarification, whistleblower, but did you say that Van was a lesser musician than FG? Some mistake, surely. Which of Frankies works are better than Astral Weeks, Moondance or Veedon Fleece. If you can supply me with a legitimate and believable answer then I'll walk the streets of Arklow, barefoot with a fiddle dangling from my aerosol.... and you can come and watch me do it.
Dodgy educational centres are certainly no strangers to the UK.
Fairly recently a "college" was raided and found to consist of a couple of empty rooms over a shop, or something. It had somehow got 5000 guys from the North-West Frontier into Britain on student visas. Though at least in this case the customers, I imagine, got what they'd paid for. I may exaggerate the details but this is the gist of the story.
Sean Lead wrote "There are no civil honours in Ireland that parallel the British MBEs, OBEs, knighthoods etc. etc"
Eh, there is Aosdána -
Charlie Haughey established Aosdána in 1981 to honour those artists whose work has made an outstanding contribution to the arts in Ireland, and to encourage and assist members in devoting their energies fully to their art.
Creative artists are only elevated to Aosdána and not interpretive artists (ie trad musicians aren't unless they have composed a body of work!).
Donal Lunny was appointed but is the only trad head I'm aware of. It's full of old luvvies, writers and visual artists and most die off each year.
Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
RTE News said he was awarded an honorary degree today by the University in Galway.
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by Martin Donohoe
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
It was a Master of Music award
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by deeor
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
Too bad the 'Doctor' can't pronounce De Danann as R.I.P
(Il thank Rook for that one. lol)
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by fiddleruairi
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
honorary masters degree for fiddle playing, Phd for strumming a BOUZOUKI ! sounds really,really sensible as do all these acedemic awards for commercial sorry I mean traditional irish music
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by brians
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
If someone gave me a bloody PhD for just playing music, I wouldn't complain! Beats the real thing.
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
you know it's just a little bit more than ' . . . for just playing music' SilverSpear, these people have dedicated the best part of their lives to this through work, family and (okay) leisure time, setting world standards within the musical form
of anyone, they deserve it (or similar pats on the back) for living ' . . . the real thing' with passion and feeding our curiosity here
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by lisaniska
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
Anyone can get a bog standard doctorate in just a year or two. An honorary award takes a lifetime.
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
Aye, lisaniska. I was being maybe a little bit ironic and facetious. I wouldn't take everything I write literally.
I'd like to see where *anyone* can get a doctorate in a year or two. And here is me panicking because four years doesn't feel like it's going to be enough. I must be a total loser.
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
you're grand SilverSpear, i certainly wouldn't take the most of what i write literally either . . .
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by lisaniska
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
You can't call him Dr. Frankie Gavin, as deeor pointed out it's an honorary Masters he was given. He'd need an honorary or a genuine Doctorate to be called Dr. Frankie Gavin. I doubt he gives a sh*te though.....
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by Fartknocker
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
A PhD normally takes 3 years full-time (which I'm sure is what llig understood and meant), and much longer part-time. Of course, there are some dodgy educational establishments in various parts of the world (not in the UK), which purport to call themselves "universities" and will give you an instant - and completely worthless - masters or doctorate on-line, depending on how much money you are prepared to hand over.
I've come across a few bog-standard PhDs in my time - all done at real universities, btw - and in most cases it seems the guy spent 3 years looking up his ears finding out more and more about less and less. The general expectation, borne out in practice, when these people went into industry as junior managers was that they would be utterly useless for the next couple of years. Eventually though, most of them did make the grade - or went into teaching.
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by lazyhound
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
I must assume that you are referring to the online universities in the USA that offer degrees in business or non-clinical degrees in psychology, for example, online. Your post has a tone that suggests there are no legitimate degrees that can be earned online. It is important to note that most degrees CANNOT be earned legitimately online, only those which do not require a physical campus in order to get the same education, such as the type of programs I mentioned above. You certainly can't get an accredited degree in music online. As one who works in the educational sector, I feel it pertinent to point these things out. It still takes four years to complete a baccalaureate at online universities that are accredited with the Higher Learning Commission (mind you, the same accrediting agency that accredites what you would call real universities in the USA), about two more years for a Masters, and another two for a doctorate. But these are programs that can be earned legitimately online. A doctorate in music, or a clinical degree in psychology, or a masters in biology, as examples, cannot be earned onliine by ANY regionally accredited university online, even if the online program were offered by Yale or Cambridge. Granted, there are charlatan organizations that lack such accreditation in the USA that offer online degree programs that are of little value, but even they require coursework. They are not "instant." Please give me an example of an online university that offers a doctorate in music online, and will agree with you that that degree would be nearly if not completely worthless, and it certainly would NOT be an accredited degree.
I apologize for going so off-topic, but I felt compelled to defend a legitimate avenue of study for certain degree programs that appears to be misrepresented here. An online doctorate in music? Where?
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
As an addendum to my previous post, I do stand corrected on one account. A little online research has revealed that there actually are online schools offering degrees in music. I little further research also revealed that these schools are definately not listed among regionally accredited colleges and universities, so yes, such a degree would be a waste of time and money. However, the main point I was trying to make was that online degrees are not worthless. It depends on the type of degree being pursued, and what research the prospective student does in ensuring the accreditation of the school at which they are looking to attend. Isn't that true of any school or country?
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
Some years ago I received an email from what was obviously a dodgy institution in the USA offering me a doctorate in view of my "life-time professional attainments". Going on memory I think that "university" quoted $2000 for the privilege, no campus attendance, coursework or dissertation being required. I binned it. A while later, at meeting of my professional institute I found that another member had received an identical email.
Perhaps the numbers of these institutions have diminished over the years. I hope so, for the sad thing is that people can still fall for worthless certificates and diplomas.
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by lazyhound
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
I know Jeremy is anti advertising, but maybe he could make some dosh by offering a Masters of Thesession diploma. I've put in the hours. llig leahcim MoT?
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
MoT ? I'd fail. Sure if I was a horse they'd shoot me. Now where's them cigarettes....
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by Sean Lead Liath
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
Yes, lazyhound, as an American I am somewhat ashamed of the unscrupulous nature of some of what I call the knock-off universities that are prevalent in the USA. There are probably more of them now, not less. I over-reacted a little in my earlier posts and took things personally, and didn't properly acknowledge that these charlatans exist, and in great abundance. There are legitimate online universities in the USA that perform a wonderful service to those who cannot reasonably go to a traditional university, because of full-time jobs, kids, etc. Unfortunately there are also unscrupulous organizations that don't have proper accreditation and offer worthless degrees in the manner you have described, and prey on the ignorance of people who want a degree and a more stable life. Now, in the great wash, it falls on the student to protect themselves and not be ingorant in their choices, but the existance of these "schools" does give online education on the whole a bad rep.
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Congrats to Frankie Gavin. NOT Doctor!!!!!
PhDs are not awarded as honorary doctorates. Honorary doctorates are generally Doctor of Letters degrees (DLitt).
Just to reiterate, Frankie Gavin is NOT a Doctor (honorary or otherwise).
Apparently Galway University didn’t think his lifetime contribution to music was as great as some people here seem to. Of course, Ronald Regan got an honorary doctorate from Galway University while he was pumping money into fascist rebel armies in Nicaragua and El Salvador, who killed hundreds of thousands of people through the years of American funding; (remember the protests?) So I wouldn’t regard any gratuitous award from that establishment as an actual honour!
“Anyone can get a bog standard doctorate in just a year or two.”??? I think you’d find it takes much more effort than you think!
All sorts of unworthy people are given doctorates these says. The illiterate dullard Bertie Ahern (former Taoiseach, forced from office for corruption) was given one by some Scottish university. I mean, why not just give them away in corn flakes boxes. But still, Frankie Gavin doesn’t have one!
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by whistleblower
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
I don't think anyone should be awarded a college or university degree in music without being required to prove that they can play at least one instrument (something besides a drum such as a bodhran) and without being required to perform in front of an audience at least once in order to earn their degree.
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
There are no civil honours in Ireland that parallel the British MBEs, OBEs, knighthoods etc. etc. Universities dispense honorary degrees for attainments that in the UK would be recognised with one of the aforementioned.
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by Sean Lead Liath
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
Some universities require their music faculty students not only to perform in front of an audience but to show ability in composing music. A friend at school who was awarded an organ scholarship at Cambridge found on arrival he had to learn another instrument (his expertise on the piano didn't count), so he chose the viola.
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by lazyhound
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
In order to earn my music degree, I was required to take two semesters of piano lessons and one semester of harpsichord lessons. Also, I spent four semesters accompanying voice majors both in rehearsal and when they performed at recitals in the school auditorium.
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
Excuse me for asking for clarification, whistleblower, but did you say that Van was a lesser musician than FG? Some mistake, surely. Which of Frankies works are better than Astral Weeks, Moondance or Veedon Fleece. If you can supply me with a legitimate and believable answer then I'll walk the streets of Arklow, barefoot with a fiddle dangling from my aerosol.... and you can come and watch me do it.
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by strayaway
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
Dodgy educational centres are certainly no strangers to the UK.
Fairly recently a "college" was raided and found to consist of a couple of empty rooms over a shop, or something. It had somehow got 5000 guys from the North-West Frontier into Britain on student visas. Though at least in this case the customers, I imagine, got what they'd paid for. I may exaggerate the details but this is the gist of the story.
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by nicholas
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
Sean Lead wrote "There are no civil honours in Ireland that parallel the British MBEs, OBEs, knighthoods etc. etc"
Eh, there is Aosdána -
Charlie Haughey established Aosdána in 1981 to honour those artists whose work has made an outstanding contribution to the arts in Ireland, and to encourage and assist members in devoting their energies fully to their art.
Creative artists are only elevated to Aosdána and not interpretive artists (ie trad musicians aren't unless they have composed a body of work!).
Donal Lunny was appointed but is the only trad head I'm aware of. It's full of old luvvies, writers and visual artists and most die off each year.
# Posted on October 22nd 2009 by iwerzon
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
... and is there not a thing with that where you don't pay any tax?
# Posted on October 22nd 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Congrats to Dr Frankie Gavin
I forgot to mention that I also had to take and pass a piano proficiency exam before they would give me my degree.
# Posted on October 22nd 2009 by fauxcelt