When I started playing music in the 70's and into the 80's at a a session tunes were played through twice,. I've recently returned to playing sessions and I find that most times tunes are played three times.
Is this the norm or are the sessions I go to ODD
If it's normal, does anyone know when the change happened?
I was in one of those two oft-lauded Dublin pubs (I won't say which one), and I joined in in my usual self-deprecating manner (you get asked to play a lot more if you do that, I found), and we/they (they started it, not me) played Lark in the Morning six bloody times. I mean, a four-part tune six bloody times. I enjoyed it actually.
In all honesty why should we bother to count? - yet I know we all do. If you are in a session with good understanding sympathetic friends of the same mindset, it's good to be able to knock out a good tune 4 or 5 maybe even 6 times. It's when you are in one of those staid organised sessions or one with a lot of new faces (who could still be good musicians) where order is needed, that the discipline of a regular 3 times then off we go to the next little ditty on the agenda, seems all pervasive. Too many people around and few players are prepared to risk it, lest eyebrows be raised. Many's the time I might lead a tune just 2wice or even just 1nce if I find it especially boring, so as to move things along to something more challenging, which might get multi-airings, so if you're staid B old F strike off your list any sessions where you may encounter "yo"
The change in sessions you've noticed since the 70's is due to the fact that the pace of life has quickened over the years and now they play three times through a tune in the same time it took to play it twice in the good old days.
I would guess you should just play it by ear. I mean, twice through is nice and concise, but if someone has just come back from the bar or bog and starts playing along on the second time through it would be churlish to kick into another tune straight off. I mean if it was good enough to play in the first (and second) place what's wrong with a third turn round?
Fournes - I was initially taught tunes by a Scots fiddle player who sessioned and played in Ceili bands from the era you mentioned - he taught me twice through and on to the next tune as well. I was scolded harshly at some of my first sessions for doing exactly that! Although 3 isn't etched in stone, some folks certainly act like it is.
fiddler Kane O'Rourke came up with the concept of playing certain (workable) reels numerous times over, acheiving a 'trance-like state' with the tune and 'within the tune' _ hard to explain, but if you try it and it works for you then you'll know what i mean
we weren't sure about this to begin with, but if you relax into the tune, so there's no effort involved, it really does work on the 'big-roundy tunes' that lend themselves to a trance feel anyway
works best for us at high volume (so a band thing), but i see no reason why it shouldn't work acoustically, may add no drugs involved here (except perhaps a drope of alcohol), just 'pure' music and 'natural' highs
"If it's normal, does anyone know when the change happened?"
The changeover was made Jan. 1st, 2000. It was part of the deal that kept all the computers from crashing. (Too complicated to explain, but it does show you how important ITM is in the real world.)
you're absolutely right Forrest, i was thinking more in personal terms as he's the first one i've met to come up with it in my 35-odd years of trad wonderment
Oliver Devaney is one who comes to mind who plays tunes through 5,6, or even 7 times through and yet listening to him do it is anything but repetitive or boring. However, in Melbourne we'd normally play a 32 bar tune 3 times through, unless of course Mr Devaney was passing through!
Hi Tony - did you make it home alright? We had a good session on Sunday afternoon with Mick and I dare say a few tunes might even have been played 4rice
I find that 3 times is standard around here. When I play with people who haven't been playing as long, they seem to expect 3 times, but at the same time we'll often play tunes many many many (you get the idea?) more times than that so people get a chance to learn the tune (if you sense they're close to almost getting it). In the same vein, when I play with people who are more experienced, we'll typically play each tune I'd say around 6 or 7 times, and I think that's really because we have fun flushing out different variations and kind of playing off one another's variations. So even though a majority of the time I end up playing a tune more than 3 times, I still tell beginners to assume 3 times is standard. Like everything with the music though, I tell them you have to keep your eyes open, because things change on the fly.
I agree with you, flossie. When leading a tune or a set, I try (to the best of my limited ability) to listen and pay attention to what is going on around me in terms of who else is joining in, etc.. If someone joins in on the 2nd time around, I'll surely play it three times, if someone eases in on the 2nd, then plays with full force on the 3rd, then I'm inclined to do a 4th before changing. (Write the 1st one off as a "warm-up", like.)
If the "late joiner" is one of our local leaders, then I'll play a 4th time out of respect for them, or if the "late joiner" is one of our local learners (as I am, too), then I'll play a 4th time to give them a chance to get a little extra mileage on the tune.
Apart from that, 2 vs. 3 is a "feel" kind of thing, but statistically speaking, I think I typically tend towards three.
I think that here in Scotland the change came as playing for dancing became less popular and playing tunes for the tunes sake at sessions became more so. I would imagine similar probably happened in Ireland. When I first started sessioning here, tunes were almost always played twice as they would be while playing at dances. But now it's most often 3, less if nobody else knows the tune, more if someone joins 2nd or 3rd time. Sometimes it feels right to go 4, 5, 6 times. It's polite to watch for people pinching the bridge of their nose and banging their heads of the table though.
I was just recently at a session in the north of Scotland where they played a series of tunes once through each and ended the set on the same one they started. I thought this was really weird. Later a mate informed me that this was how Scottish dance bands played them, which made sense given that a lot of the tunes played were Scottish country dance band tunes. I wanted to stab my eye with a whistle.
It is a beautiful view from that part of Skye. I have a couple of nice photos from round there myself. Unfortunately they were only taken with a camera phone so do not capture the lighting to anything like that level of beauty. That really is a cracker of a photo!
Three times is too few, in my opinion, for a good tune. I find that 4 times feels about right most of the time. But I usually lose count halfway through the 2nd time, so I never know for certain how many times I've played a tune. I concur with the view of several posters so far: If you're enjoying the tune, keep playing it; if you're not, move on.
Playing tunes just once or twice through seems to lean more towards 'performance' than session, as it assumes everyone knows the tune note-for-note to start with - there's little scope for learning on the fly or building variations. Even if you're one of those rare birds that can play along to a tune you've never heard before (without even hearing it through once in advance), you'd have to be an even rarer bird to be able to remember it the next day.
I think if everyone is performing well on a tune and it's really flying, let it go until it seems right to change to another one and give the nod if you're ready to switch. It doesn't matter how many times you play it really if you're enjoying it and having fun. If you were on a stage and putting on a show for people then you might want to stick to an arrangement, but even there the same rule can still apply.
We tend to follow the cue of whomever had the idea to start the tune as to when to change, but sometimes we've been known to keep it going even if the person who started it stops. Usually that would be at the end of a set of tunes though. We watch the person who started it for cues on when to switch if there's another tune. Occasionally 2 times through a tune seems like enough though; there's no hard fast rule really.
"Especially your average six part pipe tune. They're just like playing an Irish tune three times through - only the variations are pre-arranged."
Aye, I have noticed this. Try having that conversation with a Scottish piper. "You realize it's like playing a two part tune with variations, rather than an actual four part tune." "Huh??"
I actually like some of these though so I'm willing to play along. I'd rather a night of six part pipe tunes though than those horrific piano accordion polkas that sound like carousel music.
Nice pic of Skye. I have a similar one on my computer desktop, except it was snowing and it was taken with a mobile phone camera.
In most good sessions, we do what Phantom Button and Peat Creature describe -- play the tunes as many times through as we feel like it, which might be five or six times if it's really cracking.
When someone plays a tune twice and then switches, I feel like someone is hurrying me, as if the waiter is there, trying to take my plate away to the kitchen and I still have food left.
Only two times through a tune, then on to the next -- done speedily at that -- can be a sign of an over-full bladder. Don't be in a rush to condemn the poor so-and-so.
Dance tunes usually need three times through to be satisfying...hornpipes, waltzes and harp tunes, twice is often enough. Single reels without the repeats, they obviously can be repeated five or six times without wearing out their welcome.
The first time I heard a Scottish dance set end with the tune it started, I was surprised, but I find that it brings a rather musical sense of completeness to the proceedings, ending with the opening theme repeated, like in a symphony or something--I am surprised you don't hear people do it more often.
Llig:
>Especially your average six part pipe tune. They're just like >playing an Irish tune three times through - only the variations >are pre-arranged
Michael have you no social graces?
Don't you realise that this is one of those indisputable truths that shall nevre be mentioned?
I like three times through as a default for most tune types in a session. Twice is enough for hornpipes and sometimes for multipart monsters depending on how the momentum is going.
Twice through is pretty standard for most ceili bands I've come across though. The once through thing for scottish dance band music is frankly a daft idea to adopt in a session. We have a couple of sets of ceili tunes that generally end with a repeat of the first tune, but only once through at the end to tie things up. I quite like it in context, but I'm glad that we only do it with a couple of the sets.
In Ceilidh music I've never heard a tune played just once unless it's a four parter. Maybe it happens in Country dance music though but I wouldn't really know about that.
ramblingpitchfork: Sorry. But yeah, I'm not known for my social graces. I wasn't aware that this was one of those indisputable truths that shall never be mentioned - like James Hewitt is Prince Harry's dad. Slap on the wrist for me then, when all I thought I was doing was stating the bleedin' obvious. The shame if.
Sorry if I was unclear bogman, I've never heard tunes played once through a ceili (Scottish or Irish). But even assuming that this practice was the case in some places it'd still make for a crap session (IMHO).
To explain to none-dancing musicians the set up for dancing
Back in the early times long dances took place. Each dance had its own tune (the dance and the tune had the same name) The top couple danced the dance from top place then again from one place progressed and the tune was played until each couple had danced. so - 14 couples, 14 times through! The more enterprising musicians added variety for themselves in introducing variations (which may explain the six-parters)
This meant that dances could go on for half an hour if there were sufficient people dancing. The dancers didn't mind - if you were not actually the performing couple you could chat up your partner without the hinderence of a chaperone
When Scottish country dancing was revived half hour dances were not wanted as the teacher wanted to move on to a new dance so this convention was established.
The dance usually involved 2 or 3 couples although there were 4 couples in the set. The 1st couple dance the dance through once from the top place and then again from the 2nd place to the original tune. The tune is changed as the 2nd couple dance in top place and repeated again from 2nd place. The 3rd tune is danced twice by the 3rd couple and finally - to remind people who've been busy chatting each other up that the dance is about to end the original tune is played twice for the 4th couple.
Irish set dancing is much less formal musically. The dance begins with an A part (originally the dancers 'honoured' their partners and corners) and the dancers begin on the 2nd A part. It continues and the tune changes at the whim of the band irrespective of which couple is the active couple. It can be disconcerting to find the tune changes when you're only part of the way through a dance phrase!
In settled communities where people have known and danced together for a long time the socialising aspect is more inportant than the dancing and novelty actually hinders the easy flow. People are comfortable with the accustomed dances and tunes.
In the modern era, where you may not have met your partner before, the dancing aspect predominates and novelty is your chance to show off your skill. And novelty enhances it.
So you can show your ability to carry on irrespective of tune changes.
The convention of 4 couple sets may have been strongly influenced by the 78s people danced to. With 3 minutes playing time meant that bands could play 8x32 and offer 6 different tunes per record.
When EPs and LPs came in the 3 minutes of playing time was extended and so bands could play more repeats and the sessions followed suit
Thank you Alan - that's very informative. I also took up the fiddle "too late" but I've been enjoying playing for Scottish dance over the last couple of years in a very welcoming and friendly group. The tune changes are swift, the pace is breathtaking, and the bars are strictly counted, but I love these tunes.
Twicw or thrice
Twicw or thrice
When I started playing music in the 70's and into the 80's at a a session tunes were played through twice,. I've recently returned to playing sessions and I find that most times tunes are played three times.
Is this the norm or are the sessions I go to ODD
If it's normal, does anyone know when the change happened?
# Posted on October 18th 2009 by Fournes
Re: Twicw or thrice
That should read Twice or Thrice
# Posted on October 18th 2009 by Fournes
Re: Twicw or thrice
Three times is normal. Though disappointing.
# Posted on October 18th 2009 by Dragut Reis
Re: Twicw or thrice
I was in one of those two oft-lauded Dublin pubs (I won't say which one), and I joined in in my usual self-deprecating manner (you get asked to play a lot more if you do that, I found), and we/they (they started it, not me) played Lark in the Morning six bloody times. I mean, a four-part tune six bloody times. I enjoyed it actually.
# Posted on October 18th 2009 by Steve Shaw
Re: Twicw or thrice
In all honesty why should we bother to count? - yet I know we all do. If you are in a session with good understanding sympathetic friends of the same mindset, it's good to be able to knock out a good tune 4 or 5 maybe even 6 times. It's when you are in one of those staid organised sessions or one with a lot of new faces (who could still be good musicians) where order is needed, that the discipline of a regular 3 times then off we go to the next little ditty on the agenda, seems all pervasive. Too many people around and few players are prepared to risk it, lest eyebrows be raised. Many's the time I might lead a tune just 2wice or even just 1nce if I find it especially boring, so as to move things along to something more challenging, which might get multi-airings, so if you're staid B old F strike off your list any sessions where you may encounter "yo"
# Posted on October 18th 2009 by Claire Sweeney
Re: Twicw or thrice
The change in sessions you've noticed since the 70's is due to the fact that the pace of life has quickened over the years and now they play three times through a tune in the same time it took to play it twice in the good old days.
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by dogbox
Re: Twicw or thrice
I would guess you should just play it by ear. I mean, twice through is nice and concise, but if someone has just come back from the bar or bog and starts playing along on the second time through it would be churlish to kick into another tune straight off. I mean if it was good enough to play in the first (and second) place what's wrong with a third turn round?
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by flossie
Re: Twicw or thrice
Yeah the Bothy Band never used to play fast in the '70s
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by Conán McDonnell
Re: Twicw or thrice
Keep playing until you get it right
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by mcknowall
Re: Twicw or thrice
Sometimes -- once is enough -- more than enough
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by Hup
Re: Twicw or thrice
Fournes - I was initially taught tunes by a Scots fiddle player who sessioned and played in Ceili bands from the era you mentioned - he taught me twice through and on to the next tune as well. I was scolded harshly at some of my first sessions for doing exactly that! Although 3 isn't etched in stone, some folks certainly act like it is.
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by Jusa Nutter Eejit
Re: Twicw or thrice
fiddler Kane O'Rourke came up with the concept of playing certain (workable) reels numerous times over, acheiving a 'trance-like state' with the tune and 'within the tune' _ hard to explain, but if you try it and it works for you then you'll know what i mean
we weren't sure about this to begin with, but if you relax into the tune, so there's no effort involved, it really does work on the 'big-roundy tunes' that lend themselves to a trance feel anyway
works best for us at high volume (so a band thing), but i see no reason why it shouldn't work acoustically, may add no drugs involved here (except perhaps a drope of alcohol), just 'pure' music and 'natural' highs
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by lisaniska
Re: Twicw or thrice
"If it's normal, does anyone know when the change happened?"
The changeover was made Jan. 1st, 2000. It was part of the deal that kept all the computers from crashing. (Too complicated to explain, but it does show you how important ITM is in the real world.)
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by ayedbl
Re: Twicw or thrice
Somehow, I think that the "endless repetitions to the point of hypnotic trance" idea predates fiddler Kane O'Rourke--no disrespect intended.
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by tuckered out
Re: Twicw or thrice
you're absolutely right Forrest, i was thinking more in personal terms as he's the first one i've met to come up with it in my 35-odd years of trad wonderment
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by lisaniska
Re: Twicw or thrice
Oliver Devaney is one who comes to mind who plays tunes through 5,6, or even 7 times through and yet listening to him do it is anything but repetitive or boring. However, in Melbourne we'd normally play a 32 bar tune 3 times through, unless of course Mr Devaney was passing through!
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by Tony O'Rourke
Re: Twicw or thrice
Hi Tony - did you make it home alright? We had a good session on Sunday afternoon with Mick and I dare say a few tunes might even have been played 4rice
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by Donough
Re: Twicw or thrice
I find that 3 times is standard around here. When I play with people who haven't been playing as long, they seem to expect 3 times, but at the same time we'll often play tunes many many many (you get the idea?) more times than that so people get a chance to learn the tune (if you sense they're close to almost getting it). In the same vein, when I play with people who are more experienced, we'll typically play each tune I'd say around 6 or 7 times, and I think that's really because we have fun flushing out different variations and kind of playing off one another's variations. So even though a majority of the time I end up playing a tune more than 3 times, I still tell beginners to assume 3 times is standard. Like everything with the music though, I tell them you have to keep your eyes open, because things change on the fly.
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by Jason G
Re: Twice or thrice
I agree with you, flossie. When leading a tune or a set, I try (to the best of my limited ability) to listen and pay attention to what is going on around me in terms of who else is joining in, etc.. If someone joins in on the 2nd time around, I'll surely play it three times, if someone eases in on the 2nd, then plays with full force on the 3rd, then I'm inclined to do a 4th before changing. (Write the 1st one off as a "warm-up", like.)
If the "late joiner" is one of our local leaders, then I'll play a 4th time out of respect for them, or if the "late joiner" is one of our local learners (as I am, too), then I'll play a 4th time to give them a chance to get a little extra mileage on the tune.
Apart from that, 2 vs. 3 is a "feel" kind of thing, but statistically speaking, I think I typically tend towards three.
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by browndog
Re: Twicw or thrice
I think that here in Scotland the change came as playing for dancing became less popular and playing tunes for the tunes sake at sessions became more so. I would imagine similar probably happened in Ireland. When I first started sessioning here, tunes were almost always played twice as they would be while playing at dances. But now it's most often 3, less if nobody else knows the tune, more if someone joins 2nd or 3rd time. Sometimes it feels right to go 4, 5, 6 times. It's polite to watch for people pinching the bridge of their nose and banging their heads of the table though.
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by bogman
Re: Twicw or thrice
I was just recently at a session in the north of Scotland where they played a series of tunes once through each and ended the set on the same one they started. I thought this was really weird. Later a mate informed me that this was how Scottish dance bands played them, which made sense given that a lot of the tunes played were Scottish country dance band tunes. I wanted to stab my eye with a whistle.
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Twicw or thrice
A lot of those diddly tunes are really repetative though. Much more so than most diddley tunes.
Especially your average six part pipe tune. They're just like playing an Irish tune three times through - only the variations are pre-arranged.
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Twicw or thrice
Bogman
Just for you -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_pictures/8314105.stm
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by domnull
Re: Twicw or thrice
Wow, thanks for that Domnull, what a beauty.
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by bogman
Re: Twicw or thrice
It is a beautiful view from that part of Skye. I have a couple of nice photos from round there myself. Unfortunately they were only taken with a camera phone so do not capture the lighting to anything like that level of beauty. That really is a cracker of a photo!
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Twicw or thrice
Three times is too few, in my opinion, for a good tune. I find that 4 times feels about right most of the time. But I usually lose count halfway through the 2nd time, so I never know for certain how many times I've played a tune. I concur with the view of several posters so far: If you're enjoying the tune, keep playing it; if you're not, move on.
Playing tunes just once or twice through seems to lean more towards 'performance' than session, as it assumes everyone knows the tune note-for-note to start with - there's little scope for learning on the fly or building variations. Even if you're one of those rare birds that can play along to a tune you've never heard before (without even hearing it through once in advance), you'd have to be an even rarer bird to be able to remember it the next day.
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by OrganicPeatCreature
Re: Twicw or thrice
I think if everyone is performing well on a tune and it's really flying, let it go until it seems right to change to another one and give the nod if you're ready to switch. It doesn't matter how many times you play it really if you're enjoying it and having fun. If you were on a stage and putting on a show for people then you might want to stick to an arrangement, but even there the same rule can still apply.
We tend to follow the cue of whomever had the idea to start the tune as to when to change, but sometimes we've been known to keep it going even if the person who started it stops. Usually that would be at the end of a set of tunes though. We watch the person who started it for cues on when to switch if there's another tune. Occasionally 2 times through a tune seems like enough though; there's no hard fast rule really.
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by Phantom Button
Re: Twicw or thrice
"Especially your average six part pipe tune. They're just like playing an Irish tune three times through - only the variations are pre-arranged."
Aye, I have noticed this.
Try having that conversation with a Scottish piper. "You realize it's like playing a two part tune with variations, rather than an actual four part tune." "Huh??"
I actually like some of these though so I'm willing to play along. I'd rather a night of six part pipe tunes though than those horrific piano accordion polkas that sound like carousel music.
Nice pic of Skye. I have a similar one on my computer desktop, except it was snowing and it was taken with a mobile phone camera.
In most good sessions, we do what Phantom Button and Peat Creature describe -- play the tunes as many times through as we feel like it, which might be five or six times if it's really cracking.
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Twicw or thrice
We tend to stick to three (for AABB tunes annyway). But then we only play really cracking tunes.
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Twicw or thrice
When someone plays a tune twice and then switches, I feel like someone is hurrying me, as if the waiter is there, trying to take my plate away to the kitchen and I still have food left.
"Hey! I was still eating that! D'ya mind?"
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Twicw or thrice
Only two times through a tune, then on to the next -- done speedily at that -- can be a sign of an over-full bladder. Don't be in a rush to condemn the poor so-and-so.
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by Atahualpa Quigley
Re: Twicw or thrice
Dance tunes usually need three times through to be satisfying...hornpipes, waltzes and harp tunes, twice is often enough. Single reels without the repeats, they obviously can be repeated five or six times without wearing out their welcome.
The first time I heard a Scottish dance set end with the tune it started, I was surprised, but I find that it brings a rather musical sense of completeness to the proceedings, ending with the opening theme repeated, like in a symphony or something--I am surprised you don't hear people do it more often.
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by AlBrown
Re: Twicw or thrice
If you don't like Scottish dance band tunes then hearing the tune for the second time after the end of the set is like adding insult to injury.
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Twicw or thrice
Thus explaining your earlier comment about poking yourself in the eye with a whistle, I guess!
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by AlBrown
Re: Twicw or thrice
Yup.
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Twicw or thrice
Llig:
>Especially your average six part pipe tune. They're just like >playing an Irish tune three times through - only the variations >are pre-arranged
Michael have you no social graces?
Don't you realise that this is one of those indisputable truths that shall nevre be mentioned?
I like three times through as a default for most tune types in a session. Twice is enough for hornpipes and sometimes for multipart monsters depending on how the momentum is going.
Twice through is pretty standard for most ceili bands I've come across though. The once through thing for scottish dance band music is frankly a daft idea to adopt in a session. We have a couple of sets of ceili tunes that generally end with a repeat of the first tune, but only once through at the end to tie things up. I quite like it in context, but I'm glad that we only do it with a couple of the sets.
- chris
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Twicw or thrice
In Ceilidh music I've never heard a tune played just once unless it's a four parter. Maybe it happens in Country dance music though but I wouldn't really know about that.
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by bogman
Re: Twicw or thrice
It apparently does. Confusing when you expect the tune to repeat at least once and then it doesn't!
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by TheSilverSpear
Re: Twicw or thrice
ramblingpitchfork: Sorry. But yeah, I'm not known for my social graces. I wasn't aware that this was one of those indisputable truths that shall never be mentioned - like James Hewitt is Prince Harry's dad. Slap on the wrist for me then, when all I thought I was doing was stating the bleedin' obvious. The shame if.
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Twicw or thrice
Sorry if I was unclear bogman, I've never heard tunes played once through a ceili (Scottish or Irish). But even assuming that this practice was the case in some places it'd still make for a crap session (IMHO).
- chris
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Twicw or thrice
To explain to none-dancing musicians the set up for dancing
Back in the early times long dances took place. Each dance had its own tune (the dance and the tune had the same name) The top couple danced the dance from top place then again from one place progressed and the tune was played until each couple had danced. so - 14 couples, 14 times through! The more enterprising musicians added variety for themselves in introducing variations (which may explain the six-parters)
This meant that dances could go on for half an hour if there were sufficient people dancing. The dancers didn't mind - if you were not actually the performing couple you could chat up your partner without the hinderence of a chaperone
When Scottish country dancing was revived half hour dances were not wanted as the teacher wanted to move on to a new dance so this convention was established.
The dance usually involved 2 or 3 couples although there were 4 couples in the set. The 1st couple dance the dance through once from the top place and then again from the 2nd place to the original tune. The tune is changed as the 2nd couple dance in top place and repeated again from 2nd place. The 3rd tune is danced twice by the 3rd couple and finally - to remind people who've been busy chatting each other up that the dance is about to end the original tune is played twice for the 4th couple.
Irish set dancing is much less formal musically. The dance begins with an A part (originally the dancers 'honoured' their partners and corners) and the dancers begin on the 2nd A part. It continues and the tune changes at the whim of the band irrespective of which couple is the active couple. It can be disconcerting to find the tune changes when you're only part of the way through a dance phrase!
In settled communities where people have known and danced together for a long time the socialising aspect is more inportant than the dancing and novelty actually hinders the easy flow. People are comfortable with the accustomed dances and tunes.
In the modern era, where you may not have met your partner before, the dancing aspect predominates and novelty is your chance to show off your skill. And novelty enhances it.
So you can show your ability to carry on irrespective of tune changes.
The convention of 4 couple sets may have been strongly influenced by the 78s people danced to. With 3 minutes playing time meant that bands could play 8x32 and offer 6 different tunes per record.
When EPs and LPs came in the 3 minutes of playing time was extended and so bands could play more repeats and the sessions followed suit
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by Alancorsini
Re: Twicw or thrice
Thank you Alan - that's very informative. I also took up the fiddle "too late" but I've been enjoying playing for Scottish dance over the last couple of years in a very welcoming and friendly group. The tune changes are swift, the pace is breathtaking, and the bars are strictly counted, but I love these tunes.
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by RichardB
Re: Twicw or thrice
Yes, thank you Alan. The bit about the 78s shows a good reason for packing the tunes in.
# Posted on October 21st 2009 by david_h