As you can see in the title, I've recently started learning the flute, I try for as close to 30 mins a day. The tone is getting better and the breath required is becoming less, but my face hurts...........when does it stop? I'm only learning for 2 weeks but even eating food is painful. Am I doing something wrong or is this just normal while the muscles develop?
What part of your face, or just in general? When I was early on in learning flute, I always got this pain in my vocal chords because I was doing it all wrong.
Sometimes, until I'm warmed up for the day, my lips and mouth will be sore... Don't know if any of that made sense or helped, but I can hope
probably a good idea to get some lessons from an experienced player (just to make sure you're starting off on the right foot as they say), before you either become too frustrated and lose heart, or pick up a really bad habit without realising it etc.
You could go over to Clondalkin for example...
Thanks for the info,
I had planned to go down to Aras Chronain for lessons when the next series of lessons start.
Andy I was at a session in Aras Chronain last night, but was playing the whistle.
The pain is mainly in the cheeks, I spoke to one flute player, they said its just the muscles getting tired from creating the necessary lip shapes. I was just wondering how long it lasts.
Unless you're unlucky, the tender bits will harden up - same as the finger-ends of strings players, or bits of really pretty well anyone else who tangles with a musical instrument. St. Cecilia is a stern mistress and it would not surprise me if in her earthly walk she rapped kiddies' hands with rulers and stuff regularly and often. (She's the patron saint of music, btw.) Just keep on at it!
Though the whistle is painless, except to the neighbourhood.
The good news is that you only have to go through it once. Provided you keep playing quite regularly. Round about now your brain should give up trying to tell you that ought to stop what you are doing immediately or else, and then it will find something else to hurt. Like your neck, or your back.
As has been said above, yes, it's the muscles of the face cheeks lips whatever, being made to exercise for much longer than they're used to, to maintain your embouchure.
if you suddenly decided to take up marathon running and started training say 3-6 miles every day, your legs would get sore, because you are firstly making the muscles of your legs work harder than they are used to - so they respond to this stress on them by becoming hypertrophic - the muscle fibres, or muscle cells, get bigger in cross sectional area; also whilst making them work you are increasing the demands on the oxygenating capacity of their blood supply - so the blood supply becomes more efficient: there is an increased capillary network around the muscles, stronger elastic fibres round the arteries and better venous return. In the case of your legs getting fitter through running also the bones of your legs will remodel responding to the stresses applied by the muscles... though I wouldn't be too sure if your cheek and jaw bone structure would remodel due to flute playing, but maybe.
Maybe just practice for 20 mins not 30 until your face can take it. Let everything move forward on a broad front. At the same time you will be picking up new tunes which will be stored in your brain which is also constantly remodelling.....
Fournes, cheek pain while you're eating is unusual in my experience, especially you're only playing 30 mins at a time. All embouchures are unique so it's not so much that you're doing something "wrong" it's more that you're generating unnecessary tension in your face. For the first couple of months or so, some soreness in the small "kissing" or "smiling" muscles around the mouth is pretty usual but it doesn't last for very long after you put the flute down. It might be that you're "grinning" to get your embouchure. While looking in a mirror, you could try experimenting with a more neutral mouth shape i.e. the shape your lips form in repose, and then very gradually shape them until you can produce a note.
Another possibility, though less likely, is that you're using your cheeks as air pouches. If so, don't! It's worth remembering that with a efficient embouchure a flute needs no more air than a whistle.
While waiting for classes to start you might try YouTube: there are several excerpts from a James Galway masterclass around that are good, and you might get something from studying the various Comhaltas videos that feature flute players though be careful in choosing a model as there's a huge range amongst trad fluters.
And for an example of what might happen if you allow suboptimal technique to take hold, take a look at Mike McGoldrick's right shoulder. Just think how good he'd be if he'd only got his grip sorted!
Sorry I meant to add, or preface, rather - all this increased metabolic activity is only a result of prolonged exercise which distends the muscle fibrils, depletes them of metabolites, increases the cellular concentrations of harmful metabolic bi-products such as lactic acid, leads to mitochondrial dysfunction and breaks down the actin-myosin complex, all being perceived via nociceptive neurons and muscles spindles (stretch receptors). ....no wonder you are in some discomfort......
Your advice is excellent PJ. Of course Fournes may well be doing something "wrong" or unnatural... but playing the flute at all for extended periods might be considered as a bizarre unnatural and wrong act for a human to perform upon a piece of wood. Especially the kissing bit...
I would still suggest practice for a bit shorter. As soon as it starts to feel painful, quit, but take a note of minutes practiced. And then the next day add on a couple of minutes, maintain that for few days then increase, always keeping an eye on the clock.
Me? I can't play in a session for more than ten minutes before the cheeks, chest , jaw, fingers and everything else start pegging out on me.
You might be doing something abnormal - I've never had
anything like that with any of the woodwinds I've tried out over
the past 45 years. Of course it's been so long now that maybe
I've just forgotten about it. The embouchure should be tight
in the corners but flexible in the middle. Jaw and tongue should
be relaxed.
Try cutting back to 15 min or so as others suggested earlier.
It is perfectly normal to get pain in the face when starting the flute or when you leave it down for a period and take it up again so don't stop unless you want to go through this again
In addition to what was said above, i.e. don't use your cheeks as bellows, building up the muscles etc, you may also have to investigate how you are forming the cavity inside your mouth, Your throath should be open, thats to say, you should feel like you're yawning with your mouth closed. If you're doing this, your cheeks will also be relaxed although it can be infectious (yawning as I type).
But don't over do the practice, you can build up your time when the muscles are in a position to cooperate. Most importantly, enjoy it!
New to playing flute, pain in the face
New to playing flute, pain in the face
As you can see in the title, I've recently started learning the flute, I try for as close to 30 mins a day. The tone is getting better and the breath required is becoming less, but my face hurts...........when does it stop? I'm only learning for 2 weeks but even eating food is painful. Am I doing something wrong or is this just normal while the muscles develop?
# Posted on October 16th 2009 by Fournes
Re: New to playing flute, pain in the face
Just as well you didn't take up the bodhran or sitting down might be sore.
# Posted on October 16th 2009 by bogman
Re: New to playing flute, pain in the face
What part of your face, or just in general? When I was early on in learning flute, I always got this pain in my vocal chords because I was doing it all wrong.
Sometimes, until I'm warmed up for the day, my lips and mouth will be sore... Don't know if any of that made sense or helped, but I can hope
# Posted on October 16th 2009 by JosephofCK
Re: New to playing flute, pain in the face
probably a good idea to get some lessons from an experienced player (just to make sure you're starting off on the right foot as they say), before you either become too frustrated and lose heart, or pick up a really bad habit without realising it etc.
You could go over to Clondalkin for example...
http://www.araschronain.com/services.html
...they have classes for Flutes, and hold regular sessions (every weekend I think). Some great music there, so I hear!
hth
andy
# Posted on October 16th 2009 by andy69
Re: New to playing flute, pain in the face
Thanks for the info,
I had planned to go down to Aras Chronain for lessons when the next series of lessons start.
Andy I was at a session in Aras Chronain last night, but was playing the whistle.
The pain is mainly in the cheeks, I spoke to one flute player, they said its just the muscles getting tired from creating the necessary lip shapes. I was just wondering how long it lasts.
# Posted on October 16th 2009 by Fournes
Re: New to playing flute, pain in the face
Unless you're unlucky, the tender bits will harden up - same as the finger-ends of strings players, or bits of really pretty well anyone else who tangles with a musical instrument. St. Cecilia is a stern mistress and it would not surprise me if in her earthly walk she rapped kiddies' hands with rulers and stuff regularly and often. (She's the patron saint of music, btw.) Just keep on at it!
Though the whistle is painless, except to the neighbourhood.
# Posted on October 16th 2009 by nicholas
Re: New to playing flute, pain in the face
The good news is that you only have to go through it once. Provided you keep playing quite regularly. Round about now your brain should give up trying to tell you that ought to stop what you are doing immediately or else, and then it will find something else to hurt. Like your neck, or your back.
# Posted on October 16th 2009 by gam
Re: New to playing flute, pain in the face
As has been said above, yes, it's the muscles of the face cheeks lips whatever, being made to exercise for much longer than they're used to, to maintain your embouchure.
if you suddenly decided to take up marathon running and started training say 3-6 miles every day, your legs would get sore, because you are firstly making the muscles of your legs work harder than they are used to - so they respond to this stress on them by becoming hypertrophic - the muscle fibres, or muscle cells, get bigger in cross sectional area; also whilst making them work you are increasing the demands on the oxygenating capacity of their blood supply - so the blood supply becomes more efficient: there is an increased capillary network around the muscles, stronger elastic fibres round the arteries and better venous return. In the case of your legs getting fitter through running also the bones of your legs will remodel responding to the stresses applied by the muscles... though I wouldn't be too sure if your cheek and jaw bone structure would remodel due to flute playing, but maybe.
Maybe just practice for 20 mins not 30 until your face can take it. Let everything move forward on a broad front. At the same time you will be picking up new tunes which will be stored in your brain which is also constantly remodelling.....
# Posted on October 17th 2009 by Claire Sweeney
Re: New to playing flute, pain in the face
Fournes, cheek pain while you're eating is unusual in my experience, especially you're only playing 30 mins at a time. All embouchures are unique so it's not so much that you're doing something "wrong" it's more that you're generating unnecessary tension in your face. For the first couple of months or so, some soreness in the small "kissing" or "smiling" muscles around the mouth is pretty usual but it doesn't last for very long after you put the flute down. It might be that you're "grinning" to get your embouchure. While looking in a mirror, you could try experimenting with a more neutral mouth shape i.e. the shape your lips form in repose, and then very gradually shape them until you can produce a note.
Another possibility, though less likely, is that you're using your cheeks as air pouches. If so, don't! It's worth remembering that with a efficient embouchure a flute needs no more air than a whistle.
While waiting for classes to start you might try YouTube: there are several excerpts from a James Galway masterclass around that are good, and you might get something from studying the various Comhaltas videos that feature flute players though be careful in choosing a model as there's a huge range amongst trad fluters.
And for an example of what might happen if you allow suboptimal technique to take hold, take a look at Mike McGoldrick's right shoulder. Just think how good he'd be if he'd only got his grip sorted!
# Posted on October 17th 2009 by PJ Doherty
Re: New to playing flute, pain in the face
Sorry I meant to add, or preface, rather - all this increased metabolic activity is only a result of prolonged exercise which distends the muscle fibrils, depletes them of metabolites, increases the cellular concentrations of harmful metabolic bi-products such as lactic acid, leads to mitochondrial dysfunction and breaks down the actin-myosin complex, all being perceived via nociceptive neurons and muscles spindles (stretch receptors). ....no wonder you are in some discomfort......
# Posted on October 17th 2009 by Claire Sweeney
Re: New to playing flute, pain in the face
Your advice is excellent PJ. Of course Fournes may well be doing something "wrong" or unnatural... but playing the flute at all for extended periods might be considered as a bizarre unnatural and wrong act for a human to perform upon a piece of wood. Especially the kissing bit...
I would still suggest practice for a bit shorter. As soon as it starts to feel painful, quit, but take a note of minutes practiced. And then the next day add on a couple of minutes, maintain that for few days then increase, always keeping an eye on the clock.
Me? I can't play in a session for more than ten minutes before the cheeks, chest , jaw, fingers and everything else start pegging out on me.
# Posted on October 17th 2009 by Claire Sweeney
Re: New to playing flute, pain in the face
You might be doing something abnormal - I've never had
anything like that with any of the woodwinds I've tried out over
the past 45 years. Of course it's been so long now that maybe
I've just forgotten about it. The embouchure should be tight
in the corners but flexible in the middle. Jaw and tongue should
be relaxed.
Try cutting back to 15 min or so as others suggested earlier.
# Posted on October 17th 2009 by Hup
Re: New to playing flute, pain in the face
It is perfectly normal to get pain in the face when starting the flute or when you leave it down for a period and take it up again so don't stop unless you want to go through this again
In addition to what was said above, i.e. don't use your cheeks as bellows, building up the muscles etc, you may also have to investigate how you are forming the cavity inside your mouth, Your throath should be open, thats to say, you should feel like you're yawning with your mouth closed. If you're doing this, your cheeks will also be relaxed although it can be infectious (yawning as I type).
But don't over do the practice, you can build up your time when the muscles are in a position to cooperate. Most importantly, enjoy it!
# Posted on October 19th 2009 by RoisinD
Re: New to playing flute, pain in the face
The flute goes under your lips, not inside your mouth.
# Posted on October 20th 2009 by Bredna