Hello everyone
I've been invited to join a session with a lot of experienced players in one of my local pubs. They all know me fairly well from playing standard guitar tuning and mostly from singing irish songs. I've been studying DADGAD for the past two months and i know that doesnt sound much. However, a DADGAD player has taught me a lot and is going to sit beside me tonight and help me along. I told them i would quietly play away and listen to as much as i could and that i would not upset any them if things go wrong, but they've insisted that i sit among them and try and play. I think two dadgad guitars is too much.
I've picked up DADGAD chords fairly quick and i also play in open g. The trouble is i dont have very many tunes trad tunes under my belt. I've been studying Frank Kilkellys material but thats about it.
Is this too much too soon? Can you give me any advice and what to expect? I know these guys fairly well but i dont want to ruin their session either.
Any tips for DADGAD tuning also?
I'm really looking forward to your replies before tonight!!!
I think you should sit in and take turns with the other guy - two guitars is usually too many. (There are those who'd say it is two too many, of course - a point of view which I respect but do not always agree with.) That way if you're struggling, the other guy can cover the ground and if you find it's going well he can back off some more of the time and give you a few chances to play.
Be prepared to NOT play a good number of tunes. Nothing wrong with that. If you can lay back, pay attention, and only play where you are confident, and enjoy a pint the rest of the time, that's a good time.
I seem to be reading lots of threads discussing backing, even though I am not a backer. This link is a tangent, so it may not help. Thought it was good ~ from my non-backer perspective;Re: "Guitar accompaniment to Irish songs"
February 23rd 2007 by irisnevins http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/12772/comments#comment262673
bjd - You clearly have a very respectful attitude to the other players, and that will undoubtedly pay off. Don't expect to, or feel obiiged to play on every tune. The other guitarist will probably drop out now and again to let you take over the accompanying role, or perhaps play something complementary to your backing (I don't believe that two guitarists in a session, DADGAD or otherwise, are necessarily too many, so long as they listen to one another. Too often they don't.)
ditto, on the "respectful attitude"--that counts for a lot. From a craigslist ad by an all-too-typical guitarist:
"Recently I've started to listen to celtic music, and thought it would be something different to work on original material with a celtic flavor. I play guitar, and have been tinkering around with the bodhran and dideridoo. Might do a few celtic and other covers to do an open mike or two, but would like to concentrate more on original material. If this sounds interesting to you let me know. Would like to get together a couple times a month, probably weekends. Have played classic rock/blues, but really want to do something different. "
Oh sure, you can pick up that "celtic flavor" in a couple of weeks, no problem... how hard could it be?
"The trouble is i dont have very many tunes trad tunes under my belt."
In my opinion you shouldn't attempt to accompany any session if you're not familiar with the tunes.
Aptly put, Forrest. I'm new to sessioning myself, but I'm not a novice musician either. My plan is to figure it out as I go, practice practice practice, and maybe in a few years I'll start to get close.
Bjd, it seems to me that your friends are actively encouraging you to give it a go knowing that you're new to it. Therefore they aren't expecting perfection but appreciate that you are willing to learn and are sensitive to their music. I like the sound of that session - having fun playing music and learning together.
Good for you, and good for your friends for being so encouraging and open to supporting your learning!
No matter what anyone here says, if it's your friends and their session, and they want you there playing, you're fine to do so, in my opinion.
Dorian mode will be a welcome friend. Also I would encourage you to work on the melodies for the tunes you already know or ones you hear often. It will make you a better backer.
And don't be afraid to ask your guitarist friend for suggestions on how best to integrate into that particular session.
A question for those more experienced who might be reading: Are there certain more deferential (for lack of a better words) strum patterns that someone in bjd's situation could use that would be less likely to overpower the primary guitarist? Of course it would depend on the primary backer's style, but maybe there is a general suggestion for this that would be a good starting point?
I spent months when I first brought my guitar to the session, playing with my thumb to keep the volume down, sitting across from the other accompanists so I could watch their hands. There is nothing wrong with an extra guitar, as long as the player is respectful of the feelings of others, and it certainly seems like our Original Poster meets that basic criteria!
It sounds like there is a supportive bunch to play along with also. All the criteria for a good start to enjoying the music!
I went to my first session after taking up banjo (7 weeks) explained this, very kind reception and inviting but I'm concerned about my volume. There's fiddle bazouki flute guitar and two bodhrans or two bodhranii. except for the bodhran its quite quiet.
I suppose for me to take the plunge it means sitting not playng for most of the timefor a while maybe I shouldn't be worried.
They were very welcoming; "are you gonna come down and practise your banjo?" Nice.
Ayedbl - the idea that you can stroll into ITM/celtic music, and have a flavour of it after a couple of weeks, merely shows your lack of experience and knowledge in the subject. You think you're ok generally as a musician and can stroll in and get the basics in a short time ? There are decently modest people on site here who reckon they're maybe getting to be half-decent after 30 years of playing. Not to be rude, I'm guessing you're no older than your early 20s'. The people of your age making decent traditional music have grown up immersed in it from family and friends - you have about 15 years to catch up.
But don't feel discouraged - get into the stuff properly and it can become a lifetime's pleasure.
Joemchugh; might I suggest that you take the back off your banjo, and insert a tightly rolled duster between the bar and the bridge of the banjo underneath the skin ? This will take the volume of your instrument down to the point it does not overwhelm the quieter instruments in that session. Don't know what to suggest about the double bodrhan players there - sounds like they have no discretion, not a good sign.
Yikes! Steady on, Pete. I know ayedbl, and you have entirely the wrong picture of him--it was all in good fun. He is in fact quite the opposite of that craigslist ad poster, and has been an anchor at local Irish sessions for some years now. You would be happy to have him at your session, trust me on this.
well lads and lassies i went to the session last night and was welcomed with open arms. These people are such a lovely group. I enjoyed every second of it. I think the best advice i got last night was that if i didnt know the tune was to listen to the basic melody first for the first bar or two, figure out my chords by ear, even hum them in my head, and then play for the next few bars.
The bazooki player was a hugh help as he would draw my attention and whisper the key for the changes,
I played for about roughly 50% of the tunes, anything that sounded alien to me i kept quiet but listened. There were one or two tunes that were in C#min for some reason and i didnt get time to ask the other guitar player of how to play in this key on a DADGAD tuned guitar. Do any of you know the best position in playing in this key. Didnt want to capo it at the 10th fret!!!!
The other DADGAD player let me settle in nicely and when he heard that i got hold of the tune he backed off so i could play on my own with the rest of the group. Two o clock this morning when we finished up. I'm absolutly wrecked this morning at work and i have to travel to dublin airport yet!!!
All in all it was extremely enjoyable and a HUGH difference from the usual standard tuning gigging i do every other weekend. I've been invited again but in a different venue.
Cant wait till next week......
It was some kind of bulgarian tune and was incorporated into trad. A bit like what Andy Irvine done with Planxty. There was also some tunes done in E major. There was a lead player (Pat Tierney) whom i know years who plays Flute, whistle ect and was coming out with all kinds of stuff. The Bazooki player had all kinds of tunes up his sleeve also. There was one in particular that stood out and i asked him the name of it. It was called "traffick jam on the Autobahn" which he reckons some player from Derry wrote it.
check out me mate Pat Tierney here..... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-pLklK-GCc
I can't say I have ever played a tune in C#m! Having said that capoing on the 2nd fret will allow you to play Bm shapes. I certainly wouldn't capo on the 11th fret (not the 10th). You could also capo on the 4th fret and play Am shapes. 2nd fret is probably best though.
Sounds like a nice welcoming session. Good luck to you.
Ah - re the craigslist poster - well, I assumed it was he who had posted it - serves me right for not looking up ayedbl, who does have a brief biog posted, much more than some.
As to catching up - I had a whole era when I did little beyond go out and play the setlist with the barn dance band, and I'm not even a melody player in that unit, there being other distractions at home like a family and a career - now I'm much less tied down by work issues, and the kids have completed their education, I've got more time to concentrate on the important things in life again; so I did some of my playing 30 years ago, and have been re-learning it all for the last 7. And "Er Indoors comes along too.
Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
Hello everyone
I've been invited to join a session with a lot of experienced players in one of my local pubs. They all know me fairly well from playing standard guitar tuning and mostly from singing irish songs. I've been studying DADGAD for the past two months and i know that doesnt sound much. However, a DADGAD player has taught me a lot and is going to sit beside me tonight and help me along. I told them i would quietly play away and listen to as much as i could and that i would not upset any them if things go wrong, but they've insisted that i sit among them and try and play. I think two dadgad guitars is too much.
I've picked up DADGAD chords fairly quick and i also play in open g. The trouble is i dont have very many tunes trad tunes under my belt. I've been studying Frank Kilkellys material but thats about it.
Is this too much too soon? Can you give me any advice and what to expect? I know these guys fairly well but i dont want to ruin their session either.
Any tips for DADGAD tuning also?
I'm really looking forward to your replies before tonight!!!
# Posted on October 15th 2009 by bjd
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
God luck and have fun. A quick search of this site will turn up alll you can stand to read related to DADGAD.
# Posted on October 15th 2009 by Bob himself
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
I think you should sit in and take turns with the other guy - two guitars is usually too many. (There are those who'd say it is two too many, of course - a point of view which I respect but do not always agree with.) That way if you're struggling, the other guy can cover the ground and if you find it's going well he can back off some more of the time and give you a few chances to play.
# Posted on October 15th 2009 by DaveL35
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
Be prepared to NOT play a good number of tunes. Nothing wrong with that. If you can lay back, pay attention, and only play where you are confident, and enjoy a pint the rest of the time, that's a good time.
# Posted on October 15th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
I seem to be reading lots of threads discussing backing, even though I am not a backer. This link is a tangent, so it may not help. Thought it was good ~ from my non-backer perspective;Re: "Guitar accompaniment to Irish songs"
February 23rd 2007 by irisnevins
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/12772/comments#comment262673
# Posted on October 15th 2009 by Random_notes
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
bjd - You clearly have a very respectful attitude to the other players, and that will undoubtedly pay off. Don't expect to, or feel obiiged to play on every tune. The other guitarist will probably drop out now and again to let you take over the accompanying role, or perhaps play something complementary to your backing (I don't believe that two guitarists in a session, DADGAD or otherwise, are necessarily too many, so long as they listen to one another. Too often they don't.)
Whatever you do, don't forget to enjoy yourself.
# Posted on October 15th 2009 by OrganicPeatCreature
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
ditto, on the "respectful attitude"--that counts for a lot. From a craigslist ad by an all-too-typical guitarist:
"Recently I've started to listen to celtic music, and thought it would be something different to work on original material with a celtic flavor. I play guitar, and have been tinkering around with the bodhran and dideridoo. Might do a few celtic and other covers to do an open mike or two, but would like to concentrate more on original material. If this sounds interesting to you let me know. Would like to get together a couple times a month, probably weekends. Have played classic rock/blues, but really want to do something different. "
Oh sure, you can pick up that "celtic flavor" in a couple of weeks, no problem... how hard could it be?
# Posted on October 15th 2009 by tuckered out
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
"The trouble is i dont have very many tunes trad tunes under my belt."
In my opinion you shouldn't attempt to accompany any session if you're not familiar with the tunes.
# Posted on October 15th 2009 by molaoch
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
Aptly put, Forrest. I'm new to sessioning myself, but I'm not a novice musician either. My plan is to figure it out as I go, practice practice practice, and maybe in a few years I'll start to get close.
# Posted on October 15th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
Bjd, it seems to me that your friends are actively encouraging you to give it a go knowing that you're new to it. Therefore they aren't expecting perfection but appreciate that you are willing to learn and are sensitive to their music. I like the sound of that session - having fun playing music and learning together.
# Posted on October 15th 2009 by All Moldy
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
Good for you, and good for your friends for being so encouraging and open to supporting your learning!
No matter what anyone here says, if it's your friends and their session, and they want you there playing, you're fine to do so, in my opinion.
Dorian mode will be a welcome friend. Also I would encourage you to work on the melodies for the tunes you already know or ones you hear often. It will make you a better backer.
And don't be afraid to ask your guitarist friend for suggestions on how best to integrate into that particular session.
A question for those more experienced who might be reading: Are there certain more deferential (for lack of a better words) strum patterns that someone in bjd's situation could use that would be less likely to overpower the primary guitarist? Of course it would depend on the primary backer's style, but maybe there is a general suggestion for this that would be a good starting point?
# Posted on October 15th 2009 by amyamanda
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
I spent months when I first brought my guitar to the session, playing with my thumb to keep the volume down, sitting across from the other accompanists so I could watch their hands. There is nothing wrong with an extra guitar, as long as the player is respectful of the feelings of others, and it certainly seems like our Original Poster meets that basic criteria!
It sounds like there is a supportive bunch to play along with also. All the criteria for a good start to enjoying the music!
# Posted on October 15th 2009 by AlBrown
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
Forrest, I worked really hard on that Craigslist ad. I'm crushed...
# Posted on October 16th 2009 by ayedbl
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
I went to my first session after taking up banjo (7 weeks) explained this, very kind reception and inviting but I'm concerned about my volume. There's fiddle bazouki flute guitar and two bodhrans or two bodhranii. except for the bodhran its quite quiet.
I suppose for me to take the plunge it means sitting not playng for most of the timefor a while maybe I shouldn't be worried.
They were very welcoming; "are you gonna come down and practise your banjo?" Nice.
# Posted on October 16th 2009 by joemchugh
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
Ayedbl - the idea that you can stroll into ITM/celtic music, and have a flavour of it after a couple of weeks, merely shows your lack of experience and knowledge in the subject. You think you're ok generally as a musician and can stroll in and get the basics in a short time ? There are decently modest people on site here who reckon they're maybe getting to be half-decent after 30 years of playing. Not to be rude, I'm guessing you're no older than your early 20s'. The people of your age making decent traditional music have grown up immersed in it from family and friends - you have about 15 years to catch up.
But don't feel discouraged - get into the stuff properly and it can become a lifetime's pleasure.
Joemchugh; might I suggest that you take the back off your banjo, and insert a tightly rolled duster between the bar and the bridge of the banjo underneath the skin ? This will take the volume of your instrument down to the point it does not overwhelm the quieter instruments in that session. Don't know what to suggest about the double bodrhan players there - sounds like they have no discretion, not a good sign.
# Posted on October 16th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
Yikes! Steady on, Pete. I know ayedbl, and you have entirely the wrong picture of him--it was all in good fun. He is in fact quite the opposite of that craigslist ad poster, and has been an anchor at local Irish sessions for some years now. You would be happy to have him at your session, trust me on this.
# Posted on October 16th 2009 by tuckered out
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
well lads and lassies i went to the session last night and was welcomed with open arms. These people are such a lovely group. I enjoyed every second of it. I think the best advice i got last night was that if i didnt know the tune was to listen to the basic melody first for the first bar or two, figure out my chords by ear, even hum them in my head, and then play for the next few bars.
The bazooki player was a hugh help as he would draw my attention and whisper the key for the changes,
I played for about roughly 50% of the tunes, anything that sounded alien to me i kept quiet but listened. There were one or two tunes that were in C#min for some reason and i didnt get time to ask the other guitar player of how to play in this key on a DADGAD tuned guitar. Do any of you know the best position in playing in this key. Didnt want to capo it at the 10th fret!!!!
The other DADGAD player let me settle in nicely and when he heard that i got hold of the tune he backed off so i could play on my own with the rest of the group. Two o clock this morning when we finished up. I'm absolutly wrecked this morning at work and i have to travel to dublin airport yet!!!
All in all it was extremely enjoyable and a HUGH difference from the usual standard tuning gigging i do every other weekend. I've been invited again but in a different venue.
Cant wait till next week......
# Posted on October 16th 2009 by bjd
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
That's great, bjd! As somebody once said, all's well that ends well. (although... C# minor???? wtf?)
# Posted on October 16th 2009 by tuckered out
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
It was some kind of bulgarian tune and was incorporated into trad. A bit like what Andy Irvine done with Planxty. There was also some tunes done in E major. There was a lead player (Pat Tierney) whom i know years who plays Flute, whistle ect and was coming out with all kinds of stuff. The Bazooki player had all kinds of tunes up his sleeve also. There was one in particular that stood out and i asked him the name of it. It was called "traffick jam on the Autobahn" which he reckons some player from Derry wrote it.
check out me mate Pat Tierney here.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-pLklK-GCc
# Posted on October 16th 2009 by bjd
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
I can't say I have ever played a tune in C#m! Having said that capoing on the 2nd fret will allow you to play Bm shapes. I certainly wouldn't capo on the 11th fret (not the 10th). You could also capo on the 4th fret and play Am shapes. 2nd fret is probably best though.
Sounds like a nice welcoming session. Good luck to you.
# Posted on October 16th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
Nice clip! Well, that's it for you, bjd. Say goodbye to normal life, you're going to be a session hound from now on.
# Posted on October 16th 2009 by tuckered out
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
I hope!!!!! although im 30 now, wish i started earlier, but the music is a plenty in cavan....and the fleadh is on it's way.
# Posted on October 16th 2009 by bjd
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
LOL I wish I'd started at 30. From mid 50s there's a lot of catching up to do!
# Posted on October 16th 2009 by All Moldy
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
Ah - re the craigslist poster - well, I assumed it was he who had posted it - serves me right for not looking up ayedbl, who does have a brief biog posted, much more than some.
As to catching up - I had a whole era when I did little beyond go out and play the setlist with the barn dance band, and I'm not even a melody player in that unit, there being other distractions at home like a family and a career - now I'm much less tied down by work issues, and the kids have completed their education, I've got more time to concentrate on the important things in life again; so I did some of my playing 30 years ago, and have been re-learning it all for the last 7. And "Er Indoors comes along too.
# Posted on October 16th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
I would capo on 4 and play in Am
2
0
2
2
0
X
# Posted on October 16th 2009 by Earl Cameron
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
CGCGCD
try it and see what you think
# Posted on October 17th 2009 by lisaniska
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
Thanks for rescuing my good name from the mud, Forrest. But actually, I'd prefer to go with the "early 20's" designation, given a choice.
# Posted on October 17th 2009 by ayedbl
Re: Starting my first session tonight with DADGAD
gonna try that lisaniska thanks
# Posted on October 17th 2009 by bjd