Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
Hi, I'm looking for advice, I've read somewhere that when learning the flute it's better to not play the whistle.
I'm not sure why, is there a reason ?
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
Why should I want to play the fiddle?
You will find that you will do something on the flute different than on the whistle more often than you think. Whistles usually don't use as much of breath emphasis as flutes do, whistles tongue more, you will find out the differences yourself.
I guess this is the reason. Since they are similar, you can confuse the techniques, but they differ enough that the techniques are not 100% compatible.
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
It shouldn't be a problem. At least if you usually stick to low whistles, that have similar air requirements. You will improve in less time if you just stick to the flute, but then again you will not be as good at switching back and forth between the two. That is also an important aspect if you are going to play them both in the future.
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
I've taught whistle and flute for over thirty years now and would say it's pretty common advice to lay off of the whistle when you're picking up the flute for exactly the reasons suggested by TMB. But it really depends on where you're starting from, where you want to get to, and perhaps more importantly how quickly. From what I've seen if you're an adult, trying to learn both instruments at the same time significantly slows your progress on both. I don't usually encourage my students (who are mainly children) to think about taking up the flute till they've played whistle for a good couple of years by which time their whistle technique is pretty much down (even if not always crisply executed) so they can better cope with the similarities v differences.
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
I have largely laid off playing the whistle. Mainly to give the flute more time, which it needs lots of. And because of something like TBM says. But its not so much techniques on the instruments that get confused but how I play the tune - applying the available techniques to the tune. More variables than I need.
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
If you want to play the flute, play the flute.
If you want to play the whistle then play the whistle.
I don't see the point of the question.
The mandolin and the fiddle are similar in some ways but are sufficiently different that different techniques are called for. I feel the same way about flute and whistle.
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
I don't see any fundamental reason for laying off the whistle, but it will take time away from practising the flute. Spread your effort and each aspect will take longer to master.
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
Concentrate on the new instrument you can alwayss go back to play the others later. I picked up whistles the other day and got back in quite quickly to session quality
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
If your fingering is the same for both then play both. If, for example, you play high D on the flute with your index finger raised, as some people do, then make sure you do the same on the whistle. I find that there is a sort of mental switch that works according to what instrument I have in my hands. Mastering both may or may not take longer; but in my opinion playing one gives insights into the other that would be missed otherwise. And it's fun. And you can always carry a whistle around in your pocket.
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
Hi, Maybe I should have said before this, but I've been playing the whistle on and off for more than 30 years. In my prime I was good but have not played much in the last few years.
Just getting back into it and thought it would be fun to learn the flute, I had intended to do it 20 years ago.
Another reason I thought it might be a good idea is that I'm in the process of relearning a few hundred tunes, so while I'm spending time going through them I thought that I would use this as an oppertunity learrn the flute. I imagine that once the fingers remember they will cope whether its a whistle or a flute
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
One possible reason to avoid the whistle at this stage is not so much to do with fingering but rather with blowing and embouchure. That can be frustratingly difficult at first, so playing the whistle can throw your annoyance with the early stages of flute into such relief that you are more tempted to give up and stay with what you can make work.
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
IMO it's easy to pick-up the whistle while learning to play the flute because the flute is difficult to bring to a reasonable level quickly.
Try to persist with the flute and leave the whistle down until you've come to terms with the volume of air and control needed on the flute. In my experience if you continue to play the whistle while learning the flute you will find it difficult to master the breathing required for playng the flute comfortably.
I always thought that loosing my whistle was a good way of focussing on the flute.
I went from whistle to flute and found that the muscle memory kind of applied to both...
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
Don't get why not. Just play them, it's fine.
As for that last post, there's lots I don't agee with. Here's a couple to start with:
Playing whistle won't put you off flute, if you're interested in flute. It'll just add another perspective. And it positively *helps* to have to adjust air volume and control between two different instruments.
Meanwhile, "muscle memory" - ugh! Most flutes, as far as I can see, will need different fingering, so ditch the "muscle memory" thing, and learn the instrument and the tunes.
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
My flute teacher warned me that the more I pursued the whistle, the greater the sacrifice of my "timber flute" technique. And for me , he was absolutely correct. The silver flute is another question.
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
You use different muscles in your face when playing the two instruments so if you get a pain in your face (and I'm not trying to be funny) while playing the flute its just that you haven't used those muscles before to this extent. it is due to the different embouchure. I've been playing whistle and flute for years but I generally play low whistle rather than a soprano. However if the flute gets neglected for a while iI get twinges in those muscles first time back into it. So while your developing your flute embouchure and building those muscles, its better to stop playing whistle for a little while. Classical flautists are told the same thing if they play any other wind/brass instrument. The embouchure is not similar to any other.
As for fingering, its easier to transfer between low whistle and flute due to the distance between the holes. If transferring from soprano whistle to flute, its easy to misplace your fingers and not fully cover the holes as your are used to them beingsmaller and closer together. It just takes a little practice.
But if you are getting frustrated with the flute, dont pick up the whistle to make yourself feel better, it will only add to the frustration.
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
When I get frustrated with the flute, I do exactly that - I pick up my whistle (high d). Generally, if I then pick up the flute again 10 minutes later, things have sorted themselves out and I find I've made progress. Then, later, if I pick up the whistle again, I find I've got better on that too!
Perhaps, it's 'horses for courses' - i.e. what suits me might not suit someone else and vice versa.
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
It took a several weeks, maybe months, for me to be able to work my lip muscles hard enough to get them tired. They didn't know what to do. I wondered what people were on about. Whistle works better on tired lips.
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
My main point was that the flute is a tough instrument to pick up, when I started learning the whistle was like a crutch that I went back to when it wasn't working out.
@ Ethicalblend: I'm not sure why you think the fingering is different from flute to whistle, it's pretty much same.
I was walking round pulling stupid faces for weeks tring to get that lip control thing, rolling upper lips over lower lip etc...
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
Ah. Well, in that case, I'd p'rhaps better say it's different fingering *for me*. I'm playing an 8-key, not a keyless, and ... well, I'm using different fingering. E.G. Cnat whistle = OXX OOO (for me) and Cnat on flute = OXOXXX (again, for me). (Unless I use the key, depending on the tune ... etc etc)
I really sympathise with the "pulling stupid faces" thing, though, Andryas1. Did you also do the thing where people think you've got Tourette's because you suddenly start blowing raspberries at inappropriate moments?
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
I'm in agreement with several people above in that it's best to focus on one instrument at a time.
But... I had a youngster come a few years ago for uilleann lessons but the lad had no pipes! They were on order and might take six months or more. Since he was anxious to get started and since he had no prior experience with Irish wind instruments at all I thought we should start off on the whistle to get a basic exposure to Irish music, ornaments, and learn some tunes.
At lessons we would work on tunes and rolls and such on the whistle and also I would have him strap on my pipes and practice the bellows for a bit.
BTW I too have played whistle and flute for over 30 years and I've always used the same fingering for both:
oxx oox for Cnat in the low octave and oxo xxx for Cnat in the high octave.
Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
Hi, I'm looking for advice, I've read somewhere that when learning the flute it's better to not play the whistle.
I'm not sure why, is there a reason ?
# Posted on October 3rd 2009 by Fournes
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
Why would you play either when you could play the fiddle?
# Posted on October 3rd 2009 by Tadhg mac Saoirse
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
I'm playing whistle now with the intention of moving to flute in a few months, so my amateur opinion my not matter, but I don't see why not.
# Posted on October 4th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
Why should I want to play the fiddle?
You will find that you will do something on the flute different than on the whistle more often than you think. Whistles usually don't use as much of breath emphasis as flutes do, whistles tongue more, you will find out the differences yourself.
I guess this is the reason. Since they are similar, you can confuse the techniques, but they differ enough that the techniques are not 100% compatible.
# Posted on October 4th 2009 by TMB
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
It shouldn't be a problem. At least if you usually stick to low whistles, that have similar air requirements. You will improve in less time if you just stick to the flute, but then again you will not be as good at switching back and forth between the two. That is also an important aspect if you are going to play them both in the future.
# Posted on October 4th 2009 by -Abraxas
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
I think it is to avoid frustration, when - due to absent-mindedness - you start blowing the istrument on the wrong side.
However, if you are focused enough, there shouldn't be a problem with playing both - however, not simultaneously.
# Posted on October 4th 2009 by EastPole
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
I've taught whistle and flute for over thirty years now and would say it's pretty common advice to lay off of the whistle when you're picking up the flute for exactly the reasons suggested by TMB. But it really depends on where you're starting from, where you want to get to, and perhaps more importantly how quickly. From what I've seen if you're an adult, trying to learn both instruments at the same time significantly slows your progress on both. I don't usually encourage my students (who are mainly children) to think about taking up the flute till they've played whistle for a good couple of years by which time their whistle technique is pretty much down (even if not always crisply executed) so they can better cope with the similarities v differences.
# Posted on October 4th 2009 by PJ Doherty
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
I have largely laid off playing the whistle. Mainly to give the flute more time, which it needs lots of. And because of something like TBM says. But its not so much techniques on the instruments that get confused but how I play the tune - applying the available techniques to the tune. More variables than I need.
# Posted on October 4th 2009 by david_h
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
If you want to play the flute, play the flute.
If you want to play the whistle then play the whistle.
I don't see the point of the question.
The mandolin and the fiddle are similar in some ways but are sufficiently different that different techniques are called for. I feel the same way about flute and whistle.
# Posted on October 4th 2009 by cocus
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
I don't see any fundamental reason for laying off the whistle, but it will take time away from practising the flute. Spread your effort and each aspect will take longer to master.
# Posted on October 4th 2009 by Crackpot
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
Concentrate on the new instrument you can alwayss go back to play the others later. I picked up whistles the other day and got back in quite quickly to session quality
# Posted on October 4th 2009 by Michael Sam Wild
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
If your fingering is the same for both then play both. If, for example, you play high D on the flute with your index finger raised, as some people do, then make sure you do the same on the whistle. I find that there is a sort of mental switch that works according to what instrument I have in my hands. Mastering both may or may not take longer; but in my opinion playing one gives insights into the other that would be missed otherwise. And it's fun. And you can always carry a whistle around in your pocket.
# Posted on October 4th 2009 by gam
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
Hi, Maybe I should have said before this, but I've been playing the whistle on and off for more than 30 years. In my prime I was good but have not played much in the last few years.
Just getting back into it and thought it would be fun to learn the flute, I had intended to do it 20 years ago.
Another reason I thought it might be a good idea is that I'm in the process of relearning a few hundred tunes, so while I'm spending time going through them I thought that I would use this as an oppertunity learrn the flute. I imagine that once the fingers remember they will cope whether its a whistle or a flute
# Posted on October 4th 2009 by Fournes
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
Oh dear. Cancel what I said above
Flute problem of the day just solved by paying attention to whistle technique 
# Posted on October 4th 2009 by david_h
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
One possible reason to avoid the whistle at this stage is not so much to do with fingering but rather with blowing and embouchure. That can be frustratingly difficult at first, so playing the whistle can throw your annoyance with the early stages of flute into such relief that you are more tempted to give up and stay with what you can make work.
# Posted on October 4th 2009 by Lingpupa
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
IMO it's easy to pick-up the whistle while learning to play the flute because the flute is difficult to bring to a reasonable level quickly.
Try to persist with the flute and leave the whistle down until you've come to terms with the volume of air and control needed on the flute. In my experience if you continue to play the whistle while learning the flute you will find it difficult to master the breathing required for playng the flute comfortably.
I always thought that loosing my whistle was a good way of focussing on the flute.
I went from whistle to flute and found that the muscle memory kind of applied to both...
Enjoy
Andy
# Posted on October 4th 2009 by Andyras1
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
Don't get why not. Just play them, it's fine.
As for that last post, there's lots I don't agee with. Here's a couple to start with:
Playing whistle won't put you off flute, if you're interested in flute. It'll just add another perspective. And it positively *helps* to have to adjust air volume and control between two different instruments.
Meanwhile, "muscle memory" - ugh! Most flutes, as far as I can see, will need different fingering, so ditch the "muscle memory" thing, and learn the instrument and the tunes.
# Posted on October 4th 2009 by ethical blend
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
... mind you, I'm a bit rubbish, so what would I know?
# Posted on October 4th 2009 by ethical blend
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
My flute teacher warned me that the more I pursued the whistle, the greater the sacrifice of my "timber flute" technique. And for me , he was absolutely correct. The silver flute is another question.
# Posted on October 5th 2009 by windybaer
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
You use different muscles in your face when playing the two instruments so if you get a pain in your face (and I'm not trying to be funny) while playing the flute its just that you haven't used those muscles before to this extent. it is due to the different embouchure. I've been playing whistle and flute for years but I generally play low whistle rather than a soprano. However if the flute gets neglected for a while iI get twinges in those muscles first time back into it. So while your developing your flute embouchure and building those muscles, its better to stop playing whistle for a little while. Classical flautists are told the same thing if they play any other wind/brass instrument. The embouchure is not similar to any other.
As for fingering, its easier to transfer between low whistle and flute due to the distance between the holes. If transferring from soprano whistle to flute, its easy to misplace your fingers and not fully cover the holes as your are used to them beingsmaller and closer together. It just takes a little practice.
But if you are getting frustrated with the flute, dont pick up the whistle to make yourself feel better, it will only add to the frustration.
# Posted on October 5th 2009 by RoisinD
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
When I get frustrated with the flute, I do exactly that - I pick up my whistle (high d). Generally, if I then pick up the flute again 10 minutes later, things have sorted themselves out and I find I've made progress. Then, later, if I pick up the whistle again, I find I've got better on that too!
Perhaps, it's 'horses for courses' - i.e. what suits me might not suit someone else and vice versa.
# Posted on October 5th 2009 by ethical blend
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
"Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute"
How many mouths and hands have you got?
# Posted on October 5th 2009 by showaddydadito
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
It took a several weeks, maybe months, for me to be able to work my lip muscles hard enough to get them tired. They didn't know what to do. I wondered what people were on about. Whistle works better on tired lips.
# Posted on October 5th 2009 by david_h
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
My main point was that the flute is a tough instrument to pick up, when I started learning the whistle was like a crutch that I went back to when it wasn't working out.
@ Ethicalblend: I'm not sure why you think the fingering is different from flute to whistle, it's pretty much same.
I was walking round pulling stupid faces for weeks tring to get that lip control thing, rolling upper lips over lower lip etc...
# Posted on October 5th 2009 by Andyras1
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
Ah. Well, in that case, I'd p'rhaps better say it's different fingering *for me*. I'm playing an 8-key, not a keyless, and ... well, I'm using different fingering. E.G. Cnat whistle = OXX OOO (for me) and Cnat on flute = OXOXXX (again, for me). (Unless I use the key, depending on the tune ... etc etc)
I really sympathise with the "pulling stupid faces" thing, though, Andryas1. Did you also do the thing where people think you've got Tourette's because you suddenly start blowing raspberries at inappropriate moments?
# Posted on October 5th 2009 by ethical blend
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
Very good,
No I never did the raspberry thing, I got my lip 'things' from Jen McCluff and James Galway sites, I've stopped doing them now.
And funny enough I've started to pic up my whistle again.
Ps I suppose using a 4 key flute I'm using slightly different fingering meself.
# Posted on October 5th 2009 by Andyras1
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
Whistle while you work.
Flute when you drink champagne.
# Posted on October 5th 2009 by Toppish
Re: Sould I play the whistle while I'm learning the Flute
I'm in agreement with several people above in that it's best to focus on one instrument at a time.
But... I had a youngster come a few years ago for uilleann lessons but the lad had no pipes! They were on order and might take six months or more. Since he was anxious to get started and since he had no prior experience with Irish wind instruments at all I thought we should start off on the whistle to get a basic exposure to Irish music, ornaments, and learn some tunes.
At lessons we would work on tunes and rolls and such on the whistle and also I would have him strap on my pipes and practice the bellows for a bit.
BTW I too have played whistle and flute for over 30 years and I've always used the same fingering for both:
oxx oox for Cnat in the low octave and oxo xxx for Cnat in the high octave.
middle D's open or closed depending on context.
# Posted on October 6th 2009 by Richard D Cook