I want a dead honest report here. I'm considering a Tipple flute because it's a very inexpensive way to learn. Numerous reports on this site suggest it is a good bang for the buck for what it does. Seriously, though, and again, I want honesty, will I get made fun of a little bit taking one to a session?
My friend has one of Doug's flutes. It is one of those "easy to play" flutes. Casey Burns, for example, states that he is not a good flute player & this forces him to make an *easy to play* flute. I like Casey, but I am not sold on the concept.
The question to me is this, if it is easy for a beginner to play a flute then it that good enough of a reason to buy one?
Many people say yes. I am highly skeptical. Best advice; try before you buy.
The Tipple lacks a barking low D note & has an out of tuneness across its' range
Perhaps not now, but eventually you may hear people doing things, on other flutes, which you (probably) cannot emulate on the Tipple.
Lastly, if you have good session mates they will give you some friendly banter whatever you do. No worries.
It depends on the session. If it's a normal session without a bunch of snobs, you'll only get good-natured ribbing (like: "shouldn't there be a sprinkler attached?" or "are you a plumber or a flutist?" or etc). If they ARE snobby, there's an easy solution - leave! Sessions should be fun for everyone and not make someone feel stupid or inadequate.
Good point. Come to think of it if someone said to me "are you a plumber or a flutist," unless I had a good comeback, I would probably buy him a drink. So, I guess I really wouldn't mind a little good-natured ribbing. I withdraw my concern.
I don't know what those talking about an "easy to play" flute are on about. There are a few points to consider in the purchase of a flute. They are: good tone, good response, good intonation, good ergonomics. That's about it. You get what you pay for. The notion of a "learner's" flute is ludicrous. If you're going to play flute, save up and buy a good one. They're not that expensive. If you don't want to make an investment with something you might not stick with, either start on whistle or buy the flute with the knowledge that you won't lose much or anything when it comes time to sell it.
Casey makes a good flute - I have two. Never played one of Doug's. When the opportunity came, I got a vintage eight-key, which has been restored to perfection. But I'm not getting rid of my CB flutes.
If you want to play flute, invest in yourself. You'll be happier.
Your words are hitting home. The only problem is I live in the damn Arizona desert and there really aren't any stores I can walk into and compare flutes. I wish there were. I would have to travel to California for that. Not that I have a problem with that. In a general sense, I am not drawn to the idea of a plastic or polymer flute. I love tonewood, always have, always will, and the romantic in my can't see playing plastic. I do have budgetary constraints and don't want to invest too heavily unless I really can play before I buy. So that will happen, but I want to make progress in learning before I get to that point. So, I'm torn between going plastic, or one of the entry-level sweethearts that I see at the site in cherry or maple, for the purposes of learning and seeing if I am ready to spend 3 times that or more on a solid rosewood or blackwood.
There's my dilemma. I'm sure I'll solve it, and I've gained some outstanding input from this site.
Doug's flutes are very good value for the money, and they genuinely are working musical instruments which you cannot say for anything else even close in price. Yes, more money buys a better flute and you will probably want one quite soon. But, for finding out if you want to make the effort to play the flute and don't have much money then the Tipple is a fine starter. If you have the money then a better flute would make an even better starter flute... However, the important thing is to get something into your hands which plays, is in tune and lets you get blowing.
I like the Folk flute by Casey Burns myself, since I have one and am happy with it. It is still my "campfire" flute. Other flutes are also recommended by various people and I have no reason to doubt that they can do the job too. Just stay away from the Pakistani flutes sold on ebay or by various music stores.
I've seen someone convincingly play a piece of copper tubing with no holes except for the ones at each end. No one made fun of him. So remember, it is the player, not the flute... (end blown like a Kaval...)
And there is no reason why a flute _should_ be hard to play. There is a technical name for flutes that are hard to play - they are called "bad flutes". Note that some flutes require more air (prattens), larger stretches etc. This is not the same thing as being bad - they are not harder to play, they just need to be played right.
Hi,
get you a Forbes(info at http://www.forbesflutes.com/index.html). Forgiving enough to have fun with. Good enough for a long walk and you can take it to camping. I only like my wooden flutes more, because they are a tad more refined tonewise. But the Forbes is the one I have always with me.
Another vote for the Forbes flute. Dave Copley makes nice delrin flutes, too. Either of those will give you a flute that you can grow with for years for less than $500. Tipple flutes are good, but I think there's no substitute for a conical bore flute. The finger spread and hole sizes are also more manageable.
By the way, a wood flutes isn't as hard to care for as you might think--don't subject it to dramatic extremes in temp or humidity, and it should be fine. You can put it in a box to control the humidity (keep it somewhere around 50-60%, or whatever the maker recommends), and don't leave it in the car. Simple.
Casey Burns and Dave Copley both make good wood flutes for under $500.
Forbes, Copley, Burns--any of them will be good to learn and progress on. It's a good investment, because you won't outgrow the flute anytime soon (and perhaps never).
I have a Tipple and a Forbes and recommend both with wild abandon. If you're not yet sure about taking up the flute, get a Tipple and toot away for a few months.
Once you reach the point where you know you'll continue and you can hear some of the limitations to the Tipple that others have pointed out, you may want to add Forbes, Copley, or M&E to your arsenal.
"I don't know what those talking about an easy to play flute are on about."
I've played dozens and dozens, probably hundreds, of different flutes over the last 30+ years and yes, some flutes are easier to play than others.
There's a guy I know who owns a beautiful original Boosey Pratten. He gets a fantastic powerful loud reedy tone out of it. I find it very difficult to play. For one thing it requires an unusually strong amount of air to support it. (If you blow it like a normal flute not much comes out.)
Maybe I'm lazy, but I prefer flutes that are efficient, what are called "free-blowing" flutes. There's a ratio of how much you put in to how much tone comes out, and I like flutes that put out a big tone with medium effort. (Olwell is the best at this I've tried.)
And, for whatever reason, there are some flutes that are more forgiving to a beginner's embouchure than others.
I owned a flute by the pipemaker Dave Williams for a while. If blown just so, it gave a great big tone. But the embouchure was the most unforgiving I've ever played. If my embouchure was just exactly perfect the big tone came out, but if it was ahoo in the slightest nothing would come out.
On the other hand, I played an original c1830 Rudall & Rose for many years that had an extremely forgiving embouchure. Any newbie could pick it up and get a decent tone. And as your embouchure improved so did the tone, but you could always get a decent sound.
The 1st time I heard anyone saying anything about a flute being easy to play it was Casey. I always assumed he was saying it was easy for a learner to find the embochure (on a Burns). Grey Larsen gives them an endorsement on Casey's site. Which is very good! Thanks for the feedback.
The Tipple is a fine (& inexpensive) flute to start with. Once you get good on your 1st flute it is only natural to listen to other flutes & begin considering buying another.
To everyone who is getting the most out of your Tipple ~ Grand!
;)
JImmy, building a picture of what you're trying to do from your questions and bio I'm going to offer more general advice.
Starting with the specific question, being "dead honest", yep you'll be mercilessly teased. But then you're only just starting out so presumably won't be turning up at a seisiún with an instrument for a good while yet. Go along, partly to listen, but more importantly to ask one of the musicians to play a couple of tunes at an easy pace so you can record them. Play the recording again and again until you can lilt/whistle/hum/sing it, then pick up your whistle and try to work it out. Aim to learn a tune a week.
There's lots of variables but give yourself time with the whistle before thinking about picking up the flute, say a couple of years. Though most trad musicians start with it, it's as central to the tradition as fiddle or pipes (or flute).
When you start with the flute, you could start with a Tipple, but after a couple of years on the whistle you'll a) have some techniques and tunes to take across, and b) will have a better sense of what different flutes sound like, so warranting the investment in a wooden flute.
PJ, I appreciate your input, and you are probably right. However, my determination and stubbornness will almost certainly cause me to pick one up in less than a year. And by the way, picking up a couple of tunes a week is about what I'm doing now, but I won't be able to keep that up I'm sure, and will probably boil down to about a tune a week. I think that is a solid goal.
Something went astray in my 1st comment. My intention was not to cast doubt on Casey Burns ability as a flute maker, at all. Far from it. I was merely following up on earlier comments from Casey himself. He is fully capable of commentary.
Having said that I'll post a link to his own comments;
Apologies, Casey, if I have misinterpreted anything you said.
Cheers!
I am planning to buy a new flute, sometime in the next year, & it may well be one from Casey.
Another Flute Question
Another Flute Question
It seems there are alot of them.
I want a dead honest report here. I'm considering a Tipple flute because it's a very inexpensive way to learn. Numerous reports on this site suggest it is a good bang for the buck for what it does. Seriously, though, and again, I want honesty, will I get made fun of a little bit taking one to a session?
# Posted on October 2nd 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Another Flute Question
My friend has one of Doug's flutes. It is one of those "easy to play" flutes. Casey Burns, for example, states that he is not a good flute player & this forces him to make an *easy to play* flute. I like Casey, but I am not sold on the concept.
The question to me is this, if it is easy for a beginner to play a flute then it that good enough of a reason to buy one?
Many people say yes. I am highly skeptical. Best advice; try before you buy.
The Tipple lacks a barking low D note & has an out of tuneness across its' range
Perhaps not now, but eventually you may hear people doing things, on other flutes, which you (probably) cannot emulate on the Tipple.
Lastly, if you have good session mates they will give you some friendly banter whatever you do. No worries.
# Posted on October 2nd 2009 by Random_notes
Re: Another Flute Question
It depends on the session. If it's a normal session without a bunch of snobs, you'll only get good-natured ribbing (like: "shouldn't there be a sprinkler attached?" or "are you a plumber or a flutist?" or etc). If they ARE snobby, there's an easy solution - leave! Sessions should be fun for everyone and not make someone feel stupid or inadequate.
Pat
# Posted on October 2nd 2009 by plunk111
Re: Another Flute Question
Good point. Come to think of it if someone said to me "are you a plumber or a flutist," unless I had a good comeback, I would probably buy him a drink. So, I guess I really wouldn't mind a little good-natured ribbing. I withdraw my concern.
# Posted on October 2nd 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Another Flute Question
just watch out if some want starts dabbing the end of you Tipple with a strong smelling, purple primer.
# Posted on October 2nd 2009 by Random_notes
Oops!
someone (some want?)
# Posted on October 2nd 2009 by Random_notes
Re: Another Flute Question
I don't know what those talking about an "easy to play" flute are on about. There are a few points to consider in the purchase of a flute. They are: good tone, good response, good intonation, good ergonomics. That's about it. You get what you pay for. The notion of a "learner's" flute is ludicrous. If you're going to play flute, save up and buy a good one. They're not that expensive. If you don't want to make an investment with something you might not stick with, either start on whistle or buy the flute with the knowledge that you won't lose much or anything when it comes time to sell it.
Casey makes a good flute - I have two. Never played one of Doug's. When the opportunity came, I got a vintage eight-key, which has been restored to perfection. But I'm not getting rid of my CB flutes.
If you want to play flute, invest in yourself. You'll be happier.
# Posted on October 2nd 2009 by Ailin
Re: Another Flute Question
Ailin,
Your words are hitting home. The only problem is I live in the damn Arizona desert and there really aren't any stores I can walk into and compare flutes. I wish there were. I would have to travel to California for that. Not that I have a problem with that. In a general sense, I am not drawn to the idea of a plastic or polymer flute. I love tonewood, always have, always will, and the romantic in my can't see playing plastic. I do have budgetary constraints and don't want to invest too heavily unless I really can play before I buy. So that will happen, but I want to make progress in learning before I get to that point. So, I'm torn between going plastic, or one of the entry-level sweethearts that I see at the site in cherry or maple, for the purposes of learning and seeing if I am ready to spend 3 times that or more on a solid rosewood or blackwood.
There's my dilemma. I'm sure I'll solve it, and I've gained some outstanding input from this site.
# Posted on October 2nd 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Another Flute Question
Doug's flutes are very good value for the money, and they genuinely are working musical instruments which you cannot say for anything else even close in price. Yes, more money buys a better flute and you will probably want one quite soon. But, for finding out if you want to make the effort to play the flute and don't have much money then the Tipple is a fine starter. If you have the money then a better flute would make an even better starter flute... However, the important thing is to get something into your hands which plays, is in tune and lets you get blowing.
I like the Folk flute by Casey Burns myself, since I have one and am happy with it. It is still my "campfire" flute. Other flutes are also recommended by various people and I have no reason to doubt that they can do the job too. Just stay away from the Pakistani flutes sold on ebay or by various music stores.
I've seen someone convincingly play a piece of copper tubing with no holes except for the ones at each end. No one made fun of him. So remember, it is the player, not the flute... (end blown like a Kaval...)
# Posted on October 2nd 2009 by Crackpot
Re: Another Flute Question
And there is no reason why a flute _should_ be hard to play. There is a technical name for flutes that are hard to play - they are called "bad flutes". Note that some flutes require more air (prattens), larger stretches etc. This is not the same thing as being bad - they are not harder to play, they just need to be played right.
# Posted on October 2nd 2009 by Crackpot
Re: Another Flute Question
Hi,
get you a Forbes(info at http://www.forbesflutes.com/index.html). Forgiving enough to have fun with. Good enough for a long walk and you can take it to camping. I only like my wooden flutes more, because they are a tad more refined tonewise. But the Forbes is the one I have always with me.
# Posted on October 2nd 2009 by brotherstorm
Re: Another Flute Question
Another vote for the Forbes flute. Dave Copley makes nice delrin flutes, too. Either of those will give you a flute that you can grow with for years for less than $500. Tipple flutes are good, but I think there's no substitute for a conical bore flute. The finger spread and hole sizes are also more manageable.
By the way, a wood flutes isn't as hard to care for as you might think--don't subject it to dramatic extremes in temp or humidity, and it should be fine. You can put it in a box to control the humidity (keep it somewhere around 50-60%, or whatever the maker recommends), and don't leave it in the car. Simple.
Casey Burns and Dave Copley both make good wood flutes for under $500.
Forbes, Copley, Burns--any of them will be good to learn and progress on. It's a good investment, because you won't outgrow the flute anytime soon (and perhaps never).
# Posted on October 2nd 2009 by Tintin
Re: Another Flute Question
I have a Tipple and a Forbes and recommend both with wild abandon. If you're not yet sure about taking up the flute, get a Tipple and toot away for a few months.
Once you reach the point where you know you'll continue and you can hear some of the limitations to the Tipple that others have pointed out, you may want to add Forbes, Copley, or M&E to your arsenal.
Happy tooting!
# Posted on October 3rd 2009 by waltcamp45
Re: Another Flute Question
"I don't know what those talking about an easy to play flute are on about."
I've played dozens and dozens, probably hundreds, of different flutes over the last 30+ years and yes, some flutes are easier to play than others.
There's a guy I know who owns a beautiful original Boosey Pratten. He gets a fantastic powerful loud reedy tone out of it. I find it very difficult to play. For one thing it requires an unusually strong amount of air to support it. (If you blow it like a normal flute not much comes out.)
Maybe I'm lazy, but I prefer flutes that are efficient, what are called "free-blowing" flutes. There's a ratio of how much you put in to how much tone comes out, and I like flutes that put out a big tone with medium effort. (Olwell is the best at this I've tried.)
And, for whatever reason, there are some flutes that are more forgiving to a beginner's embouchure than others.
I owned a flute by the pipemaker Dave Williams for a while. If blown just so, it gave a great big tone. But the embouchure was the most unforgiving I've ever played. If my embouchure was just exactly perfect the big tone came out, but if it was ahoo in the slightest nothing would come out.
On the other hand, I played an original c1830 Rudall & Rose for many years that had an extremely forgiving embouchure. Any newbie could pick it up and get a decent tone. And as your embouchure improved so did the tone, but you could always get a decent sound.
# Posted on October 3rd 2009 by Richard D Cook
Re: Another Flute Question
The 1st time I heard anyone saying anything about a flute being easy to play it was Casey. I always assumed he was saying it was easy for a learner to find the embochure (on a Burns). Grey Larsen gives them an endorsement on Casey's site. Which is very good! Thanks for the feedback.
The Tipple is a fine (& inexpensive) flute to start with. Once you get good on your 1st flute it is only natural to listen to other flutes & begin considering buying another.
To everyone who is getting the most out of your Tipple ~ Grand!
;)
# Posted on October 3rd 2009 by Random_notes
. . . easy for a learner to find the embouchure . . .
# Posted on October 3rd 2009 by Random_notes
Re: Another Flute Question
JImmy, building a picture of what you're trying to do from your questions and bio I'm going to offer more general advice.
Starting with the specific question, being "dead honest", yep you'll be mercilessly teased. But then you're only just starting out so presumably won't be turning up at a seisiún with an instrument for a good while yet. Go along, partly to listen, but more importantly to ask one of the musicians to play a couple of tunes at an easy pace so you can record them. Play the recording again and again until you can lilt/whistle/hum/sing it, then pick up your whistle and try to work it out. Aim to learn a tune a week.
There's lots of variables but give yourself time with the whistle before thinking about picking up the flute, say a couple of years. Though most trad musicians start with it, it's as central to the tradition as fiddle or pipes (or flute).
When you start with the flute, you could start with a Tipple, but after a couple of years on the whistle you'll a) have some techniques and tunes to take across, and b) will have a better sense of what different flutes sound like, so warranting the investment in a wooden flute.
# Posted on October 4th 2009 by PJ Doherty
Re: Another Flute Question
PJ, I appreciate your input, and you are probably right. However, my determination and stubbornness will almost certainly cause me to pick one up in less than a year. And by the way, picking up a couple of tunes a week is about what I'm doing now, but I won't be able to keep that up I'm sure, and will probably boil down to about a tune a week. I think that is a solid goal.
# Posted on October 4th 2009 by Jimmy B
Re: Another Flute Question
Good advice PJ
Something went astray in my 1st comment. My intention was not to cast doubt on Casey Burns ability as a flute maker, at all. Far from it. I was merely following up on earlier comments from Casey himself. He is fully capable of commentary.
Having said that I'll post a link to his own comments;
....Updating some info here, per Doc's comments about my flutes. Just some responses:
http://forums.chiffandfipple.com/viewtopic.php?p=924675#p924675
Apologies, Casey, if I have misinterpreted anything you said.
Cheers!
I am planning to buy a new flute, sometime in the next year, & it may well be one from Casey.
# Posted on October 4th 2009 by Random_notes