I know this question has probably been asked many times before, but I wanted to try again.
Being relatively new to the ITM scene and learning the whistle at the minute, I've seen a friend of mine playing a cran on the D note and it sounded great! The only problem I have now, is that I want to learn how to play it and on trying to decipher exactly what finger movements are occurring to create this great piece of ornamentation, I've come to a dead end.
From what I could see it looked like a the 2nd 4th and 5th fingers were being used to create the sound, but the order in which these fingers where lifted/dropped was at lightening pace and I've been struggling to replicate the sound, in fact on the one occasion I did manage to play something that sounded relatively close to it, I was even unsure myself as to exactly what I did.
Pipers/Whistler's/Flute players/(or whom ever else) - can you please advise?
why dont u ask yer mate to show you. Peoples bullsh1t approximations that will surley follow will turn your head. Crans are easily done and difficult to explain. like driving
Aye, Trucks is right. Get your mate or any piper or whistle player who knows how to play one show you. There are many ways to play one and they are all cumbersome to explain on the internet and will be more confusing than not.
Yeah - I did try that, and he said it was just something he picked up on over the years of playing. He was finding it almost as difficult to break or slow it down as I was finding it, to play it... So as a result I though I'd ask on here for advice, but maybe I should go back and keep trying
I am a part-time whistler and I can occasionally pull off a cran. From what I can gather, there is no single standard way of playing a cran. The order and number of cuts seems to vary from player to player and situation to situation.
I play a D cran with a descending sequence of 3 cuts, like this:
XXX XXX
XXO XXX
XXX XXX
XXX OXX
XXX XXX
XXX XOX
XXX XXX
But I have seen/heard I played with the cuts ascending:
XXX XXX
XXX XOX
XXX XXX
XXX OXX
XXX XXX
XXO XXX
XXX XXX
In fact, the cuts can be executed in any order with much the same effect. I believe pipers will sometimes squeeze in 4 cuts instead of 3, giving even more possible permutations.
To be honest, even at a high res, I still think these are played too fast to be able to determine the exact sequence of cuts, at least not without slowing the clip way down...
Yes, it is essentially a series of cuts on the bottom D (or E). Your best bet is to find someone who knows how to teach it. If you can't do that, listen to lots of Irish music and get a feel for how they sound, then figure out how to emulate that sound. There are about a zillion ways to play them.
The choice and order of the notes are not as important as the rhythm. If I actually think about it, I think of it not as lifting the fingers in rhythm, but tapping them down in rhythm. The lift is only there to prepare for the tap, so to speak. Make the lift as brief as you can and tap the fingers in the rhythm that you want to hear. It’s been many years, but I believe that’s the thinking that got me to the Aha moment.
I learnt highland bagpipes at a very basic level before moving to ITM. Pipe music has a system of noting the "doublings" and "grips". Using the notation my instructor was able to show me which fingers to move in which order. When I started playing the whistle I kept the same finger movements and it sounded alright Have a look at www.hpb.dk/artikler/gb/Bram_van_Melle-Bagpipe_Fingerings.pdf to see what I mean.
(Thinks: what sort of irate responses will this attract?)
There is no mystery in a cran. Lift your right index finger and put it down. Lift your right middle finger and put it down. That is your basic cran. If your want to you can add another index finger to make three notes on the D (or E), play the whole thing twice, reverse the order, add gracenotes with your left hand.
I hesitate to disagree with Bob himself, but lifting your finger is not to prepare for putting it down. Lifting a finger sounds a note, putting it down stops the note. My moment of revelation was when I heard my father tapping out a rhythm on the edge of the table with the backs of his finger nails. This is a good way to get your rhythm right.Try it on the side of a cupboard or a door.
"but lifting your finger is not to prepare for putting it down. Lifting a finger sounds a note, putting it down stops the note."
My thinking is, as for cuts and rolls, the grace notes themselves have no time value - whilst they must obviously have some duration, they are meant to be perceived as points in time rather than notes that begin and end. So, in practice, the grace notes should be as brief as is physically possible - it is the space between them that is of the greatest importance.
But the actual timing of the grace notes too quick to be tackled 'arithmetically', I think. No amount of theorizing, notating etc. will enable you to execute a good cran. The best way forward, I maintain, is to get to know what a cran sounds like, then try it until you get that same sound.
...Even in classical music, grace notes are rarely notated 'literally'. The nearest thing to a cran in standard notation would be a series of 'acciaccature' ('crossed out' grace notes) - which are open to interpretation, as far as precise timing is concerned.
Well, I was attempting to describe a way of thinking about the physical act of cranning, not to define it musically. If I think of it as tapping a rhythm with almost vanishingly brief lifting of the fingers, the result is a cran.
And my comment was in no way a criticism, as it would seem that there are as many opinions as there are musicians. But I would like to point out that the 'salute' approach to fingering, that is long way up, quick way down, can lead to a lack of crispness, most noticeable in highland pipes, but also in flute and whistle. The lifting of the finger should be done as rapidly as the replacing, as it is that fraction of a second when the finger is uncovering the hole that strange sounds are made. I always bear in mind that it is the muscle in the back of the forearm that does the work, not the one you use to type with.
I've been playing uilleann pipes/flute/whistle for a long time, and have attended a large number of uilleann workshops taught by a number of today's leading pipers, and it's true that the actual order of cuts varies from player to player.
The only "rules" seem to be:
1)only three fingers are used: lower-hand middle and index finger, and upper-hand ring finger
2)no single finger is used twice in a row (that would be more like a trill)
Some pipers do an ascending cran LH middle/LH index/UH ring
others do a descending cran UH ring/LH index/LH middle
Mick O Brien, at his workshop, demonstrated that his crans don't use the UH ring finger but go
LH middle/LH index/LH middle
which leaves the UH ring finger free to seperate melody bottom D notes.
Crans vary a lot due to context. There are what I call "semi crans" which are more like a Scottish bagpipe "doubling" in that they only contain two cuts; there are normal crans which contain three cuts; there are "long crans" which have four cuts.
Now, keep in mind that in the old days crans were a piper's thing and flute/whistle players had their own sort of cranlike thing they did. I call it a "fluteplayer's cran". I've never heard anybody else discuss it so I have no other name for it.
It actually has no cuts at all, but is more of a melodic analogy to a cran, and simply consists of the notes
bottom D/F#/E/bottom D
melodic D's being seperated by UH ring finger cuts just as on the pipes.
Though in theory this doesn't sound anything like a cran, when done in the right rythm it actually sounds quite cranlike.
which goes to show that the cuts don't have to be in ascending or descending sequence.
And, the Scottish pipes have a three-cut sequence called a G-D-E triplet.
This can have the same rythm as the cran but jumps out as being "wrong" to Irish players, because the fingers used are
UH index/LH index/UH ring
and obviously uilleann pipers wouldn't use the UH index finger in a cran. That cut doesn't even sound sometimes on whistles/flutes.
Oh and another thing, it's crucial that the cuts are clearly seperated with audible bottom D's sounding between each one.
Otherwise it's just a jumble of wiggling fingers and not a cran at all. The cuts/bottom D's must be evenly timed to achieve the "bubbling" effect.
It's a replacement for a roll on D low or high but you can also do it on E. He does it here with 2 "cuts" same timing as a normal long roll but you can do it with 3 "cuts" as explained by OrganicPeatCreature above to separate 4 notes.
TBH it's probably easier to do than a normal roll and I use it on E too because my E rolls suck.
Trying to decipher the Cran
Trying to decipher the Cran
Hi,
I know this question has probably been asked many times before, but I wanted to try again.
Being relatively new to the ITM scene and learning the whistle at the minute, I've seen a friend of mine playing a cran on the D note and it sounded great! The only problem I have now, is that I want to learn how to play it and on trying to decipher exactly what finger movements are occurring to create this great piece of ornamentation, I've come to a dead end.
From what I could see it looked like a the 2nd 4th and 5th fingers were being used to create the sound, but the order in which these fingers where lifted/dropped was at lightening pace and I've been struggling to replicate the sound, in fact on the one occasion I did manage to play something that sounded relatively close to it, I was even unsure myself as to exactly what I did.
Pipers/Whistler's/Flute players/(or whom ever else) - can you please advise?
Thanks
C
# Posted on September 23rd 2009 by Ciarán.
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
why dont u ask yer mate to show you. Peoples bullsh1t approximations that will surley follow will turn your head. Crans are easily done and difficult to explain. like driving
# Posted on September 23rd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
Aye, Trucks is right. Get your mate or any piper or whistle player who knows how to play one show you. There are many ways to play one and they are all cumbersome to explain on the internet and will be more confusing than not.
# Posted on September 23rd 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
Yeah - I did try that, and he said it was just something he picked up on over the years of playing. He was finding it almost as difficult to break or slow it down as I was finding it, to play it... So as a result I though I'd ask on here for advice, but maybe I should go back and keep trying
# Posted on September 23rd 2009 by Ciarán.
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
I am a part-time whistler and I can occasionally pull off a cran. From what I can gather, there is no single standard way of playing a cran. The order and number of cuts seems to vary from player to player and situation to situation.
I play a D cran with a descending sequence of 3 cuts, like this:
XXX XXX
XXO XXX
XXX XXX
XXX OXX
XXX XXX
XXX XOX
XXX XXX
But I have seen/heard I played with the cuts ascending:
XXX XXX
XXX XOX
XXX XXX
XXX OXX
XXX XXX
XXO XXX
XXX XXX
In fact, the cuts can be executed in any order with much the same effect. I believe pipers will sometimes squeeze in 4 cuts instead of 3, giving even more possible permutations.
# Posted on September 23rd 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
Cross-posted with all three of you there
# Posted on September 23rd 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
i've heard of the cran but dont know what it is, some someone post a link to a clip? cheers
# Posted on September 23rd 2009 by rumpole
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
Youtube any decent piper. It's a standard piping ornament so you'll see/hear them then.
# Posted on September 23rd 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
So would it be reasonable (from a beginners point of view) to say a Cran is a series of cuts played very fast?
# Posted on September 23rd 2009 by Ciarán.
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
Here's a typical example of crans in a jig. You can hear them on the bottom Ds at the end of the 1st, 2nd and 4th parts (not in the 3rd part) and on the low Es as well in the 4th part.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wdOR5WtsLeY&feature=PlayList&p=756C05725AAFC658&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=32
# Posted on September 23rd 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
These sound brilliant... I've gotta learn this one!!
# Posted on September 23rd 2009 by Ciarán.
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
The crans aren't as easy to catch in this one (there are some in the 3rd part), but this is classy piping:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6n9VVZS6TLY&feature=related
The problem with youtube is, the resolution isn't usually good enough to capture something as quick as a cran.
# Posted on September 23rd 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
To be honest, even at a high res, I still think these are played too fast to be able to determine the exact sequence of cuts, at least not without slowing the clip way down...
# Posted on September 23rd 2009 by Ciarán.
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
Agreed. Basically, you get familiar with what it sounds like, then wiggle your fingers around until you get the right sound
A rule of thumb (not that thumbs come into it) is, never lift one finger before replacing the previous one..
# Posted on September 23rd 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
Yes, it is essentially a series of cuts on the bottom D (or E). Your best bet is to find someone who knows how to teach it. If you can't do that, listen to lots of Irish music and get a feel for how they sound, then figure out how to emulate that sound. There are about a zillion ways to play them.
# Posted on September 23rd 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
OK - guys thanks for the contributions, this should be enough to at least help me make a start on mastering the Cran.
And saying as there are a zillion ways of playing them, then I should be able to stumble across at least one
# Posted on September 23rd 2009 by Ciarán.
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
The choice and order of the notes are not as important as the rhythm. If I actually think about it, I think of it not as lifting the fingers in rhythm, but tapping them down in rhythm. The lift is only there to prepare for the tap, so to speak. Make the lift as brief as you can and tap the fingers in the rhythm that you want to hear. It’s been many years, but I believe that’s the thinking that got me to the Aha moment.
# Posted on September 23rd 2009 by Bob himself
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
I can't say anything about the pipes, but what I do for crans on the whistle is something like:
xxx xxx
xxo xxx
xxx xxo
xxx xxx
It's probably not ideal, cos it's a short cran, but it's easy, and it works in a relatively fast tune.
# Posted on September 23rd 2009 by Joe CSS
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
I learnt highland bagpipes at a very basic level before moving to ITM. Pipe music has a system of noting the "doublings" and "grips". Using the notation my instructor was able to show me which fingers to move in which order. When I started playing the whistle I kept the same finger movements and it sounded alright
Have a look at www.hpb.dk/artikler/gb/Bram_van_Melle-Bagpipe_Fingerings.pdf to see what I mean.
(Thinks: what sort of irate responses will this attract?)
# Posted on September 23rd 2009 by deeor
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
There is no mystery in a cran. Lift your right index finger and put it down. Lift your right middle finger and put it down. That is your basic cran. If your want to you can add another index finger to make three notes on the D (or E), play the whole thing twice, reverse the order, add gracenotes with your left hand.
I hesitate to disagree with Bob himself, but lifting your finger is not to prepare for putting it down. Lifting a finger sounds a note, putting it down stops the note. My moment of revelation was when I heard my father tapping out a rhythm on the edge of the table with the backs of his finger nails. This is a good way to get your rhythm right.Try it on the side of a cupboard or a door.
# Posted on September 24th 2009 by gam
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
"but lifting your finger is not to prepare for putting it down. Lifting a finger sounds a note, putting it down stops the note."
My thinking is, as for cuts and rolls, the grace notes themselves have no time value - whilst they must obviously have some duration, they are meant to be perceived as points in time rather than notes that begin and end. So, in practice, the grace notes should be as brief as is physically possible - it is the space between them that is of the greatest importance.
But the actual timing of the grace notes too quick to be tackled 'arithmetically', I think. No amount of theorizing, notating etc. will enable you to execute a good cran. The best way forward, I maintain, is to get to know what a cran sounds like, then try it until you get that same sound.
# Posted on September 24th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
...Even in classical music, grace notes are rarely notated 'literally'. The nearest thing to a cran in standard notation would be a series of 'acciaccature' ('crossed out' grace notes) - which are open to interpretation, as far as precise timing is concerned.
# Posted on September 24th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
Well, I was attempting to describe a way of thinking about the physical act of cranning, not to define it musically. If I think of it as tapping a rhythm with almost vanishingly brief lifting of the fingers, the result is a cran.
# Posted on September 24th 2009 by Bob himself
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
And my comment was in no way a criticism, as it would seem that there are as many opinions as there are musicians. But I would like to point out that the 'salute' approach to fingering, that is long way up, quick way down, can lead to a lack of crispness, most noticeable in highland pipes, but also in flute and whistle. The lifting of the finger should be done as rapidly as the replacing, as it is that fraction of a second when the finger is uncovering the hole that strange sounds are made. I always bear in mind that it is the muscle in the back of the forearm that does the work, not the one you use to type with.
# Posted on September 24th 2009 by gam
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
What Peat Creature said.
I've been playing uilleann pipes/flute/whistle for a long time, and have attended a large number of uilleann workshops taught by a number of today's leading pipers, and it's true that the actual order of cuts varies from player to player.
The only "rules" seem to be:
1)only three fingers are used: lower-hand middle and index finger, and upper-hand ring finger
2)no single finger is used twice in a row (that would be more like a trill)
Some pipers do an ascending cran LH middle/LH index/UH ring
others do a descending cran UH ring/LH index/LH middle
Mick O Brien, at his workshop, demonstrated that his crans don't use the UH ring finger but go
LH middle/LH index/LH middle
which leaves the UH ring finger free to seperate melody bottom D notes.
Crans vary a lot due to context. There are what I call "semi crans" which are more like a Scottish bagpipe "doubling" in that they only contain two cuts; there are normal crans which contain three cuts; there are "long crans" which have four cuts.
Now, keep in mind that in the old days crans were a piper's thing and flute/whistle players had their own sort of cranlike thing they did. I call it a "fluteplayer's cran". I've never heard anybody else discuss it so I have no other name for it.
It actually has no cuts at all, but is more of a melodic analogy to a cran, and simply consists of the notes
bottom D/F#/E/bottom D
melodic D's being seperated by UH ring finger cuts just as on the pipes.
Though in theory this doesn't sound anything like a cran, when done in the right rythm it actually sounds quite cranlike.
# Posted on September 25th 2009 by Richard D Cook
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
Oh two things I forgot...
Patsy Touhey did the cran thus:
LH index/LH middle/UH ring
which goes to show that the cuts don't have to be in ascending or descending sequence.
And, the Scottish pipes have a three-cut sequence called a G-D-E triplet.
This can have the same rythm as the cran but jumps out as being "wrong" to Irish players, because the fingers used are
UH index/LH index/UH ring
and obviously uilleann pipers wouldn't use the UH index finger in a cran. That cut doesn't even sound sometimes on whistles/flutes.
# Posted on September 25th 2009 by Richard D Cook
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
Oh and another thing, it's crucial that the cuts are clearly seperated with audible bottom D's sounding between each one.
Otherwise it's just a jumble of wiggling fingers and not a cran at all. The cuts/bottom D's must be evenly timed to achieve the "bubbling" effect.
# Posted on September 25th 2009 by Richard D Cook
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
Many thanks to all the tips, hints and contributions!
# Posted on September 25th 2009 by Ciarán.
Re: Trying to decipher the Cran
Ciarán this is all you need
http://www.kerrywhistles.com/movies/Tutorial_3.wmv
It's a replacement for a roll on D low or high but you can also do it on E. He does it here with 2 "cuts" same timing as a normal long roll but you can do it with 3 "cuts" as explained by OrganicPeatCreature above to separate 4 notes.
TBH it's probably easier to do than a normal roll and I use it on E too because my E rolls suck.
# Posted on September 27th 2009 by blaydo