Is it reasonable to assume that if Comhaltas puts up a video clip of somebody playing a tune, that clip is a pretty good source to learn it from?
Last night, we had a little disconnect over Maudabawn Chapel--apparently a well-know tunebook has a setting that is quite different from the dots posted here, and the dots here tend to agree with a Comhaltas clip I found.... It's not a pistols-at-dawn situation at all, I'm just curious what others think.
Yes, I think it’s a pretty reasonable assumption, in a way. Comhaltas generally has a very high technical standard and leans towards preservationist conservatism, so you tend not to hear really outré settings put out with their imprimatur. So by learning a Comhaltas setting you tend to increase your chances of being able to play that setting with others.
But really, it’s only a good source if you like the setting, don’t you think? No use learning it, if it doesn’t really excite you, just because it’s from Comhaltas. Or take interesting parts from different versions and make your own setting.
As far as Maudabawn Chapel goes, there are two main settings I know of. One is the version posted here by Will, that Kevin Burke made popular (although if you listen to Martin Byrne on track 1 of “Paddy in the Smoke”, especially the second time through, it’s very similar and may be where Kevin got it). Then there’s a version closer to how Reavy may have originally composed it, and how you see it in many tune books, a little busier on the first phrase and with a second repeat on the A part. The version I butcher is after Maureen Fitzpatrick on “The Music of Ed Reavy” track 12. I figure if it’s good enough for Reavy’s own it’s good enough for me.
I would say that Comhaltas clips are a reliable source, for the reasons that Fidkid states. But ultimately, I think the best source is as many sources as possible - solo performances, bands, recordings, sessions, sheet music settings (nothing wrong with that, in my opinion, as long as it's not the *only* source) - even if you end up only choosing one out of many versions of the tune.
"I'd say the best version of a tune to learn would be the one your mates play. If you want to play with your mates that is."
I agree, Llig. But sometimes you'll find yourself in a session where a different version is played. The more different versions you hear, the easier it will be to adapt your playing to any version you hear in a session.
Also, not everyone has the luxury of a local session with a constant input of new repertoire, and so might want to actively seek out* new tunes to introduce to their fellow players.
*The orthographically correct version, according to the syntactical stickler, should be , 'might want to seek out actively' or 'might want actively to seek out'. But the 'incorrect' version sounds much better.
But if it's a tune with a known composer, wouldn't you want to play it as the composer intended? Are tunes in Comhaltas videos accurate in that way, mostly? You know, tunes by Ed Reavy, Paddy Fahey, et al.
I doubt anyone plays tunes as the maker 'intended' In fact, Id say this will be assumed by the maker. The whole underlying ethos of traditional Irish music is to make the tunes your own, not to parrot note for note another player. Ok as a learning process why not learn an individuals setting, but that merely a stage on the route to individual expression.
I always refer to the version of the tune I first heard, the version which made me want to learn the tune. That's the default in my head already when I'm learning it. If any dots or other versions don't jive with the one I'm learning from, the one that got into my head in the first place to make me want to learn the tune, then it's rejected in favor of the primal tune form in my brain, which came from a friend, or a recording, etc.
Now when you've got two experienced players each with their own version of the tune, that's where the magic happens. Two decent players can listen to each and merge their versions happily into each other, making wonderful music.
If you're introducing the tunes to your friends, then have at it. Use the Comhaltas one, use the one ya got from yer old Bothy CD, etc.
Young? Not necessarily. They could just be new to Irish music. I bought my first (and only, so far) Bothy album at age 40-something. I know for certain that I first heard of Donal Lunny in late 1999. I asked the bartender whose album that was, and he wrote it down for me--I still have the slip of paper.
Never been much of a one for buying CDs etc since my teenage obsession with early reaggae/ska records. Took an age to obtain a CD player and never recovered my enthusiasm for buying comercial music.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with CDs, but I have a very small collection all things considered.
Always prefered de dannan to bothy anyway, had most of their stuff in one format or another at some time (mostly lp or tape).
Kevin Burke or Frankie Gavin version? Those are the only versions I know of Maudibaun chapel going around... Course the real version can be found on a recoding of Ed Reavey ...
I learned this tune from the Reavey manuscript and find that the various versions are derivatives of it. The original version has two separate ways of ending the A part. I also find that Charlie Lennon's tunes will have variations within the original version that other versions seem to draw from.
Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
Is it reasonable to assume that if Comhaltas puts up a video clip of somebody playing a tune, that clip is a pretty good source to learn it from?
Last night, we had a little disconnect over Maudabawn Chapel--apparently a well-know tunebook has a setting that is quite different from the dots posted here, and the dots here tend to agree with a Comhaltas clip I found.... It's not a pistols-at-dawn situation at all, I'm just curious what others think.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by tuckered out
Re: Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
Yes, I think it’s a pretty reasonable assumption, in a way. Comhaltas generally has a very high technical standard and leans towards preservationist conservatism, so you tend not to hear really outré settings put out with their imprimatur. So by learning a Comhaltas setting you tend to increase your chances of being able to play that setting with others.
But really, it’s only a good source if you like the setting, don’t you think? No use learning it, if it doesn’t really excite you, just because it’s from Comhaltas. Or take interesting parts from different versions and make your own setting.
As far as Maudabawn Chapel goes, there are two main settings I know of. One is the version posted here by Will, that Kevin Burke made popular (although if you listen to Martin Byrne on track 1 of “Paddy in the Smoke”, especially the second time through, it’s very similar and may be where Kevin got it). Then there’s a version closer to how Reavy may have originally composed it, and how you see it in many tune books, a little busier on the first phrase and with a second repeat on the A part. The version I butcher is after Maureen Fitzpatrick on “The Music of Ed Reavy” track 12. I figure if it’s good enough for Reavy’s own it’s good enough for me.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by fidkid
Re: Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
Sorry, reading back that second paragraph comes off rather preachy. Just thinking out loud. Or typing out loud. Or something...
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by fidkid
Re: Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
I would say that Comhaltas clips are a reliable source, for the reasons that Fidkid states. But ultimately, I think the best source is as many sources as possible - solo performances, bands, recordings, sessions, sheet music settings (nothing wrong with that, in my opinion, as long as it's not the *only* source) - even if you end up only choosing one out of many versions of the tune.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by OrganicPeatCreature
Re: Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
I'd say the best version of a tune to learn would be the one your mates play. If you want to play with your mates that is.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
If you have any mates ...
Actually the Foinn Seisiun recordings by Comhaltas are pretty "straight-up" versions of tunes
http://www.emusic.com/album/Comhaltas-Foinn-Seisi%C3%BAn-1-Traditional-Irish-Session-Tunes-MP3-Download/11254727.html
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by Bren
Re: Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
Yes.
Learn the best version! or the vsn you like best and then make it your own.
Different regions produce different variants of the tunes, so listen to lots of different players. Pick up phrases, twists and turns, from these .
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by the wicked hacker
Re: Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
"I'd say the best version of a tune to learn would be the one your mates play. If you want to play with your mates that is."
I agree, Llig. But sometimes you'll find yourself in a session where a different version is played. The more different versions you hear, the easier it will be to adapt your playing to any version you hear in a session.
Also, not everyone has the luxury of a local session with a constant input of new repertoire, and so might want to actively seek out* new tunes to introduce to their fellow players.
*The orthographically correct version, according to the syntactical stickler, should be , 'might want to seek out actively' or 'might want actively to seek out'. But the 'incorrect' version sounds much better.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by OrganicPeatCreature
Re: Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
But if it's a tune with a known composer, wouldn't you want to play it as the composer intended? Are tunes in Comhaltas videos accurate in that way, mostly? You know, tunes by Ed Reavy, Paddy Fahey, et al.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by tuckered out
Re: Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
I doubt anyone plays tunes as the maker 'intended' In fact, Id say this will be assumed by the maker. The whole underlying ethos of traditional Irish music is to make the tunes your own, not to parrot note for note another player. Ok as a learning process why not learn an individuals setting, but that merely a stage on the route to individual expression.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by the wicked hacker
Re: Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
I always refer to the version of the tune I first heard, the version which made me want to learn the tune. That's the default in my head already when I'm learning it. If any dots or other versions don't jive with the one I'm learning from, the one that got into my head in the first place to make me want to learn the tune, then it's rejected in favor of the primal tune form in my brain, which came from a friend, or a recording, etc.
Now when you've got two experienced players each with their own version of the tune, that's where the magic happens. Two decent players can listen to each and merge their versions happily into each other, making wonderful music.
If you're introducing the tunes to your friends, then have at it. Use the Comhaltas one, use the one ya got from yer old Bothy CD, etc.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
If you're introducing Bothy Band tunes to your mates, they must be very young ...
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
Young? Not necessarily. They could just be new to Irish music. I bought my first (and only, so far) Bothy album at age 40-something. I know for certain that I first heard of Donal Lunny in late 1999. I asked the bartender whose album that was, and he wrote it down for me--I still have the slip of paper.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by tuckered out
Re: Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
Go and get the other three now. Right away. Go on ... hop it
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
Hee hee! Yeah, the auld ones were all listening to other stuff in the early and mid 70s. I was too. Sesame Street, mostly.
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
I only ever had 1 Bothy band LP (yes LP
).
Never been much of a one for buying CDs etc since my teenage obsession with early reaggae/ska records. Took an age to obtain a CD player and never recovered my enthusiasm for buying comercial music.
I'm not saying there is anything wrong with CDs, but I have a very small collection all things considered.
Always prefered de dannan to bothy anyway, had most of their stuff in one format or another at some time (mostly lp or tape).
Just thought I'd mention these irrelevancies
- chris
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
Kevin Burke or Frankie Gavin version? Those are the only versions I know of Maudibaun chapel going around... Course the real version can be found on a recoding of Ed Reavey ...
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by fedorastain
Re: Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
I love mawdebawn chapel! Thanks for reminding me!
# Posted on September 5th 2009 by SandyBottoms
Re: Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
Noel Hill and Tony Linnane
Vincent Griffin
also good versions.
# Posted on September 5th 2009 by bigyabby
Re: Are Comhaltas video clips a good source?
I learned this tune from the Reavey manuscript and find that the various versions are derivatives of it. The original version has two separate ways of ending the A part. I also find that Charlie Lennon's tunes will have variations within the original version that other versions seem to draw from.
# Posted on September 21st 2009 by Phantom Button