Ok, I am new to The Session, and this is my first discussion, so if anyone has qualms with it, I apologize in advance! I am also fairly new to playing ITM, and I live in Utah, where Celtic music is not exactly abundant. So here goes nothing.
I've been studying intensively on the Boehm flute in classical music. On the side, I've been teaching myself the art of ITM by listening and trying to imitate others I've heard on various recordings. As a result, I feel I have a decent hold on ornamentation, and I understand the standard way to play whistles.
My only difficulty is going to be once I start getting into the low whistles, because I think my hands are structured in such a way that I won't be able to reach the third and sixth holes very easily. I've heard that the piper's grip is a remedy to this problem, but I am not aware of just how to achieve such a grip.
I am completely blind, though, so I want to give you people the challenge of explaining to me in detail just how to do it. I was reading discussions that mention the first and second pads of the finger, but I'm going "Bwah?" *boggles*
I am in the process of ordering several whistles from Chris Abell, but for the low whistles, G down to low D, I would like to obtain Overtons. It has been rumored that Overton's successor offsets his whistles but I'm not sure on the validity of that particular rumor. Don't say go for Chieftain, either, because I don't like the tone of the Chieftains LOL! That's just me, though. I'm looking for as much information as you guys can give me regarding this matter. Good luck, and thanks!
Problem for your situation is that the C&F page relies on pictures. Some text. This is from that link:
"Keep the fingers relaxed. Do not squeeze the tube between the thumbs and fingers. Using the middle joint of each finger will allow the holes to be covered without exerting great pressure, thus avoiding Numb Thumbs.
Some players use the pad of the middle joint of all three fingers of each hand. Perhaps more common is an approach that uses the middle joint for holes 1, 2, 4, and 5 (covered by the index and middle fingers of both hands), and the pad of the first joint of the ring fingers to cover 3 and 6."
Best you'll get from a fiddler, sorry. Ha! Hopefully a piper wanders along shortly with more info for you. Good luck, have fun!
Excellent! It will be interesting to see if anything else comes up for this discussion though, because I value the input of several opinions. Thanks very much. I'll read the information provided on the links you sent.
Bobbi, the description above pretty much explains my approach to the pipers grip, with just a small difference. Instead of using the middle joint of the index and middle fingers, I use the space between the middle and top joints. That just happens to be the most comfortable method for me. I use the pad of the ring finger on each hand.
I would definitely re-iterate the advice about not gripping the whistle too tightly - your thumbs will get sore, and I speak from past experience!
A friend of mine who plays low whistles (and is very good at it) uses his pinky rather than his ring finger to cover the bottom hole, as you would on the pipes. This apparently makes the stretch easier.
Just a small addition to the above comments. It is usual for pipers to put the right thumb directly behind the middle finger. It feels uncomfortable at first, but it gives better stability to the whistle.
I have an Overton Low D...... lovely, lovely thing! Still getting the hang of the piper's grip...... it's taking time to become second nature... I still pop/squeak or produce a mealy sound at times but am getting better at it with practice and patience. I've tried other Lows - the grips are all slightly different.... some more manageable than others..... if you're just starting out, you might want to sample different Lows before you put down the cash. Depending on how patient you are with mastering the grip, one Low may be better for you than another. Best wishes...
By the way, Phantom Flutist, you say that you live in Utah, and I know that that is a big state, but if you're anywhere up in the northeast corner, you may want to check out the Irish music scene up in Pocatello, Idaho. I came across those folks several years ago when passing briefly through town visiting friends, and many of them were just discovering what ITM was all about, but they were an eager group of skilled musicians -- probably much like yourself.
Here is my approach:
Spread your fingers, but remain completely relaxed.
Put the pad of the first joint of your ring fingers on their respective holes. Don't consider anything else. Now turn your hand (with the fingers still spread without any tension), with the ring-finger pad on the hole as pivot. You will feel an angle for each hand, where some part of index and middle finger are automatically covering their holes. There you have it, if you kept relaxed while turning, you found the spot, where you don't cramp while covering the holes. Adjustments for the most comfortable grip come with practise.
All of this information has been most helpful! Regarding Idaho, well... I used to be scared as a mouse being chased by a cat when it came to traveling, but since a recent trip to New York for the National flute association convention, I'm really not so worried. It's something to look at, at any rate.
Thanks for the descriptions and advice, all of you. I do realize that Overtons are very expensive, but my philosophy is that if you intend on being a serious player, which I do intend on it, then buy the best instrument you can buy given your budget, and play it for all it's worth. Why buy a cheap instrument if your budget allows for something more, and you know that you'll outgrow the cheaper instrument in time? *grins*
At any rate, everything so far makes perfect sense, and I actually hope to actively participate in more discussions as they come up. So you'll probably hear from me as time goes on.
Bobbi keep in mind, when people are talking about the fingers' pads, that each finger has three pads of soft tissue. Obviously it's easier to get a good seal, especially on the larger holes, with one of the pads rather than the joints between the pads, where there is less soft flesh.
Clarinet and Boehm flute players use the endmost pads. Many if not most Irish fluteplayers do also.
On the Scottish pipes and Uilleann pipes, on the lower hand, which must cover four toneholes, the end-pad of the little finger is used but the middle pad of the other three fingers is used. If you look at the underside of your hand you'll see why this is so: the endpad of the pinkie is in line with the middle pads of the other fingers. For beginning piping students I often have to draw dots on the middle of the pinkie's endpad and the index finger's middle pad and tell the student to make sure that these dots are always on the holes.
On both Scottish and Uilleann pipes the upper hand's pinkie isn't used. On Scottish pipes most pipers use the endpads on the upper hand, though some use the middle pads. On Uilleann pipes, because the chanter is held on the diagonal, the endpad of the ring finger and the middle pad of the middle and index fingers is used.
I went into this long-winded explanation to sort of explain why they call it "piper's grip", though in many cases it's a misnomer, because many Low Whistle players don't use the grip of either the Scottish or Uilleann pipes but rather a grip unique to the Low Whistle. I guess it's analogous to the way pipers grip their chanters, rather than an exact replica.
I've gone through a struggle myself with the piper's grip on the upper hand. I've played both Scottish and Uilleann pipes for over 30 years so when I seriously took up playing Low D Whistle as my primary session instrument a couple years ago the lower-hand piper's grip is what came natural: flattish fingers sealing the holes with the middle pads. Not stiffly straight fingers, but fingers with a slight natural curve, quite relaxed.
But with the upper hand I have a tendency to seal with the endpads as I do on the Scottish pipes, which leads to discomfort. I've been working on using the middle pads on the upper hand, in other words use the grip that Scottish and Uilleann pipers use on their lower hands on my upper hand. Were I one of the Scottish pipers who use their upper-hand middle pads I wouldn't have to go through this.
Anyhow I still get the occasional squeak, and my upper hand, if I'm not paying attention, tends to retreat across the whistle until the endpads are on the holes.
Hi Bobbie,
Welcome to the session. I've been playing Low whistle for a few years now. I started off playing classical flute and I found the switch from classical to trad flute much harder than transitioning to low whistle.
I too am blindso I understand the need for descriptions.
I'm not sure if I'm any use to you as I'm double jointed and so I'm not sure I hold the low whistle in the usual manner.
Start with what was said above and if I can be of any help, give me a shout.
Best wishes,
Roisin
Pipers Grip, what is it?
Pipers Grip, what is it?
Ok, I am new to The Session, and this is my first discussion, so if anyone has qualms with it, I apologize in advance! I am also fairly new to playing ITM, and I live in Utah, where Celtic music is not exactly abundant. So here goes nothing.
I've been studying intensively on the Boehm flute in classical music. On the side, I've been teaching myself the art of ITM by listening and trying to imitate others I've heard on various recordings. As a result, I feel I have a decent hold on ornamentation, and I understand the standard way to play whistles.
My only difficulty is going to be once I start getting into the low whistles, because I think my hands are structured in such a way that I won't be able to reach the third and sixth holes very easily. I've heard that the piper's grip is a remedy to this problem, but I am not aware of just how to achieve such a grip.
I am completely blind, though, so I want to give you people the challenge of explaining to me in detail just how to do it. I was reading discussions that mention the first and second pads of the finger, but I'm going "Bwah?" *boggles*
I am in the process of ordering several whistles from Chris Abell, but for the low whistles, G down to low D, I would like to obtain Overtons. It has been rumored that Overton's successor offsets his whistles but I'm not sure on the validity of that particular rumor. Don't say go for Chieftain, either, because I don't like the tone of the Chieftains LOL! That's just me, though. I'm looking for as much information as you guys can give me regarding this matter. Good luck, and thanks!
Most Sincerely,
Bobbi
# Posted on September 1st 2009 by Phantom Flutist
Re: Pipers Grip, what is it?
Hi Bobbi, here's an old thread about it:
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/21226
This is the Chiff & Fipple webpage where they explain how to do it:
http://www.chiffandfipple.com/pipers.html
Problem for your situation is that the C&F page relies on pictures. Some text. This is from that link:
"Keep the fingers relaxed. Do not squeeze the tube between the thumbs and fingers. Using the middle joint of each finger will allow the holes to be covered without exerting great pressure, thus avoiding Numb Thumbs.
Some players use the pad of the middle joint of all three fingers of each hand. Perhaps more common is an approach that uses the middle joint for holes 1, 2, 4, and 5 (covered by the index and middle fingers of both hands), and the pad of the first joint of the ring fingers to cover 3 and 6."
Best you'll get from a fiddler, sorry. Ha! Hopefully a piper wanders along shortly with more info for you. Good luck, have fun!
# Posted on September 1st 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Pipers Grip, what is it?
Excellent! It will be interesting to see if anything else comes up for this discussion though, because I value the input of several opinions. Thanks very much. I'll read the information provided on the links you sent.
Slightly Insane,
Bobbi
# Posted on September 1st 2009 by Phantom Flutist
Re: Pipers Grip, what is it?
Bobbi, the description above pretty much explains my approach to the pipers grip, with just a small difference. Instead of using the middle joint of the index and middle fingers, I use the space between the middle and top joints. That just happens to be the most comfortable method for me. I use the pad of the ring finger on each hand.
I would definitely re-iterate the advice about not gripping the whistle too tightly - your thumbs will get sore, and I speak from past experience!
Happy whistling
# Posted on September 1st 2009 by Pat Mustard
Re: Pipers Grip, what is it?
A friend of mine who plays low whistles (and is very good at it) uses his pinky rather than his ring finger to cover the bottom hole, as you would on the pipes. This apparently makes the stretch easier.
# Posted on September 1st 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: Pipers Grip, what is it?
Just a small addition to the above comments. It is usual for pipers to put the right thumb directly behind the middle finger. It feels uncomfortable at first, but it gives better stability to the whistle.
# Posted on September 1st 2009 by gam
Re: Pipers Grip, what is it?
Don't forget you must first learn the talk, and later the truckly-how.
# Posted on September 1st 2009 by geoffwright
Re: Pipers Grip, what is it?
I have an Overton Low D...... lovely, lovely thing! Still getting the hang of the piper's grip...... it's taking time to become second nature... I still pop/squeak or produce a mealy sound at times but am getting better at it with practice and patience. I've tried other Lows - the grips are all slightly different.... some more manageable than others..... if you're just starting out, you might want to sample different Lows before you put down the cash. Depending on how patient you are with mastering the grip, one Low may be better for you than another. Best wishes...
# Posted on September 1st 2009 by CW
Re: Pipers Grip, what is it?
By the way, Phantom Flutist, you say that you live in Utah, and I know that that is a big state, but if you're anywhere up in the northeast corner, you may want to check out the Irish music scene up in Pocatello, Idaho. I came across those folks several years ago when passing briefly through town visiting friends, and many of them were just discovering what ITM was all about, but they were an eager group of skilled musicians -- probably much like yourself.
Cheers.
# Posted on September 1st 2009 by browndog
Re: Pipers Grip, what is it?
Here is my approach:
Spread your fingers, but remain completely relaxed.
Put the pad of the first joint of your ring fingers on their respective holes. Don't consider anything else. Now turn your hand (with the fingers still spread without any tension), with the ring-finger pad on the hole as pivot. You will feel an angle for each hand, where some part of index and middle finger are automatically covering their holes. There you have it, if you kept relaxed while turning, you found the spot, where you don't cramp while covering the holes. Adjustments for the most comfortable grip come with practise.
# Posted on September 2nd 2009 by TMB
Re: Pipers Grip, what is it?
All of this information has been most helpful! Regarding Idaho, well... I used to be scared as a mouse being chased by a cat when it came to traveling, but since a recent trip to New York for the National flute association convention, I'm really not so worried. It's something to look at, at any rate.
Thanks for the descriptions and advice, all of you. I do realize that Overtons are very expensive, but my philosophy is that if you intend on being a serious player, which I do intend on it, then buy the best instrument you can buy given your budget, and play it for all it's worth. Why buy a cheap instrument if your budget allows for something more, and you know that you'll outgrow the cheaper instrument in time? *grins*
At any rate, everything so far makes perfect sense, and I actually hope to actively participate in more discussions as they come up. So you'll probably hear from me as time goes on.
Warm Regards,
Bobbi
# Posted on September 2nd 2009 by Phantom Flutist
Re: Pipers Grip, what is it?
Bobbi keep in mind, when people are talking about the fingers' pads, that each finger has three pads of soft tissue. Obviously it's easier to get a good seal, especially on the larger holes, with one of the pads rather than the joints between the pads, where there is less soft flesh.
Clarinet and Boehm flute players use the endmost pads. Many if not most Irish fluteplayers do also.
On the Scottish pipes and Uilleann pipes, on the lower hand, which must cover four toneholes, the end-pad of the little finger is used but the middle pad of the other three fingers is used. If you look at the underside of your hand you'll see why this is so: the endpad of the pinkie is in line with the middle pads of the other fingers. For beginning piping students I often have to draw dots on the middle of the pinkie's endpad and the index finger's middle pad and tell the student to make sure that these dots are always on the holes.
On both Scottish and Uilleann pipes the upper hand's pinkie isn't used. On Scottish pipes most pipers use the endpads on the upper hand, though some use the middle pads. On Uilleann pipes, because the chanter is held on the diagonal, the endpad of the ring finger and the middle pad of the middle and index fingers is used.
I went into this long-winded explanation to sort of explain why they call it "piper's grip", though in many cases it's a misnomer, because many Low Whistle players don't use the grip of either the Scottish or Uilleann pipes but rather a grip unique to the Low Whistle. I guess it's analogous to the way pipers grip their chanters, rather than an exact replica.
I've gone through a struggle myself with the piper's grip on the upper hand. I've played both Scottish and Uilleann pipes for over 30 years so when I seriously took up playing Low D Whistle as my primary session instrument a couple years ago the lower-hand piper's grip is what came natural: flattish fingers sealing the holes with the middle pads. Not stiffly straight fingers, but fingers with a slight natural curve, quite relaxed.
But with the upper hand I have a tendency to seal with the endpads as I do on the Scottish pipes, which leads to discomfort. I've been working on using the middle pads on the upper hand, in other words use the grip that Scottish and Uilleann pipers use on their lower hands on my upper hand. Were I one of the Scottish pipers who use their upper-hand middle pads I wouldn't have to go through this.
Anyhow I still get the occasional squeak, and my upper hand, if I'm not paying attention, tends to retreat across the whistle until the endpads are on the holes.
# Posted on September 2nd 2009 by Richard D Cook
Re: Pipers Grip, what is it?
Hi Bobbie,
Welcome to the session. I've been playing Low whistle for a few years now. I started off playing classical flute and I found the switch from classical to trad flute much harder than transitioning to low whistle.
I too am blindso I understand the need for descriptions.
I'm not sure if I'm any use to you as I'm double jointed and so I'm not sure I hold the low whistle in the usual manner.
Start with what was said above and if I can be of any help, give me a shout.
Best wishes,
Roisin
# Posted on September 5th 2009 by RoisinD