My box teacher and I from time to time work on waltzes. However, speed, expression etc have to do often with whether they are done at a session, for listening or for folks dancing at social functions. Waltzes are really wonderful in their flexibility. And people just love to hum along.
How has everyone used the tune "The Munster Cloak", and has anyone found any particular good recordings?
We haven't played that particular tune in session. I'll toss it in the ring. When I get home tonight I'll listen to Joanie.
zippy, are you getting back to your PA roots? You make your grandmother proud. Here's another thread on waltzes;
Ronnie Cooper Waltzes
May 25th 2007 by Bren http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/13853
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
Random- On the PA question, I don't have enough time to practice what I need to, much less get back to PA. I usually use it at Christmas and St. Pats with Herself's choir, when the piano nazi insists on playing in keys my B/C box gets indignant about.
Wouldn't a Mazurka be in 9/8 or a 3/4 with emphasis on the last beat, maybe the second.
The Munster cloak I have is in 3/4 with emphesis on the first beat.
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
In the days when Ceili and Old Time was big, you had to have an endless supply of waltzes so anything from an 'auld come-all-ye' to a tune from the charts that you could knock into a 3/4 beat was suitable. However, at sessions, tunes like 'Annie's Song' might be a bit out of place, so I'd go for waltzes with a more folksy feel such as The Bell Table, Tom Betty's, The Munster Cloak, or even the old favourite 'The Versevianna' On the other hand you could really show off your skill as a box player and play 'Bourrasque' or 'Rheine de Musette' That should make your teacher sit up and listen.
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
Our accordion player has been playing 'Under Paris Skies'
solo w/out words. Says he learnt it when he was a boy.
The solo is nice but I'm sure some of us will join in & milk it a bit.
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
Waltz/Mazurka ....
My original source was the Chieftains, so I went back and checked that- shows what memory does for you - it's labelled "air" on the LP!
On thinking about it, we do stick it into a set with The Versevianna or Sonny's mazurka but from what everyone's saying about where the beat shouls be, we're palying it as a fast waltz ... sorry to mislead!
(
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
Not mislead
The reason for the question. Nice tune. How is it used and there are a number of thoughts.
Free Reed- I think I will take you up on that idea. Only I think John while being impressed if I did a decent job on one of those two, would ask me why I can't do the same on the things he gave me!
We have done Waltzes. While I can do them on the piano and organ, I have not yet gotten the "lilt' or 'swagger' if you will, that goes along with the Irish presentation of waltzes. All sounds like heavy handed downbeat. Brings back memories of being a fourth grader marched around school to show off my PA ability on the Blackhawk waltz oompah style!
At that point more of my classmates were just getting into very early rock n roll and the PA was slipping into oblivion!
I appreciate the matches suggested because unlike the reels and jigs where there are a million of 'em that go together, waltzes seem to stand all alone.
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
Shows how many resources this Board has- THanks Jeremy
I just checked out the Tunes section for The South Wind....humming it, It sounds like the Skye Boat Song variation I have on one of my fiddle competition CD's.
Herself's favorite tune. This could be a real home run!
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
I definitely play South wind as a waltz.... the session used to finish with that, and someone singing the lyrics "all the tunes in the world" to it.
See comments at http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/601
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
i picked up sothwind as an an air, arranged for solo mandolin, from a tutor book, emphasis on the first beat, it flows nicely.
in my head i can hear a jig that would follow it really well, trouble is, i don't know what it is - i think it is one D Swarbrick has recorded (no longer have the recording)
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
A few points about playing waltzes for dancers. It does no harm to know the differences between the tempos of different waltzes..
In Ireland they say that the Irish Rural Heart swings in three four time. The dance is known as 'An Auld Time Waltz' aka An Auld Time Struggle or A Farmer's Tango, and it may well be the only dance that the older people can do.Consequently many Irish songs are written in 3/4 time so that people can dance along. The Irish like their waltzes with a bit of a swing to them, as indeed do our Continental cousins. The Scots also like their waltzes, but a little bit more reserved, more of a gliding motion. If an Englishman asks you to play a waltz, he would expect to hear a slow waltz. If he wanted an old time waltz, he would probably request a Viennese Waltz. Next there is what we use to call a Honky Tonk waltz as done in the Country and Western bars in the USA. The tempo is something between the slow waltz and the old time waltz. The tempo of a song like 'The Old Kentucky Waltz' would be a good example of the tempo for that kind of waltz. Lastly there is The Viletta Waltz and The St Bernard Waltz. Each of these waltzes has its own tune, but of course there are other tunes suitable for both dances...How do I know all this, because I played for all of them at one time or another. Sad to say that many of today's young people haven't a clue how to do these dances, but that would apply to most 'joined up dancing'..........
It's an age thing really!
Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
My box teacher and I from time to time work on waltzes. However, speed, expression etc have to do often with whether they are done at a session, for listening or for folks dancing at social functions. Waltzes are really wonderful in their flexibility. And people just love to hum along.
How has everyone used the tune "The Munster Cloak", and has anyone found any particular good recordings?
As always, any advice most appreciated
# Posted on August 27th 2009 by zippydw
Session waltzes
We haven't played that particular tune in session. I'll toss it in the ring. When I get home tonight I'll listen to Joanie.
zippy, are you getting back to your PA roots? You make your grandmother proud. Here's another thread on waltzes;
Ronnie Cooper Waltzes
May 25th 2007 by Bren
http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/13853
# Posted on August 27th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
I thought the Spanish Cloak/Munster Cloak was a mazurka ??
# Posted on August 27th 2009 by spindizzy
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
spindizzy, do you play this tune as a mazurka?
{just in case it happens & you wonder why ~ this thread may be relocated by Jeremy}
# Posted on August 27th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
Random- On the PA question, I don't have enough time to practice what I need to, much less get back to PA. I usually use it at Christmas and St. Pats with Herself's choir, when the piano nazi insists on playing in keys my B/C box gets indignant about.
Wouldn't a Mazurka be in 9/8 or a 3/4 with emphasis on the last beat, maybe the second.
The Munster cloak I have is in 3/4 with emphesis on the first beat.
# Posted on August 27th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
In the days when Ceili and Old Time was big, you had to have an endless supply of waltzes so anything from an 'auld come-all-ye' to a tune from the charts that you could knock into a 3/4 beat was suitable. However, at sessions, tunes like 'Annie's Song' might be a bit out of place, so I'd go for waltzes with a more folksy feel such as The Bell Table, Tom Betty's, The Munster Cloak, or even the old favourite 'The Versevianna' On the other hand you could really show off your skill as a box player and play 'Bourrasque' or 'Rheine de Musette' That should make your teacher sit up and listen.
# Posted on August 27th 2009 by Free Reed
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
Our accordion player has been playing 'Under Paris Skies'
solo w/out words. Says he learnt it when he was a boy.
The solo is nice but I'm sure some of us will join in & milk it a bit.
# Posted on August 27th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
I suppose you could play Munster Cloak as a mazurka by shifting the speed and the emphasis, but I have only heard people play it as a waltz.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by AlBrown
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
I play the Munster Cloak as a fairly fast waltz, usually after The South Wind. It segues nicely.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by bc_box_player
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
Waltz/Mazurka ....
My original source was the Chieftains, so I went back and checked that- shows what memory does for you - it's labelled "air" on the LP!
On thinking about it, we do stick it into a set with The Versevianna or Sonny's mazurka but from what everyone's saying about where the beat shouls be, we're palying it as a fast waltz ... sorry to mislead!
(
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by spindizzy
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
Not mislead
The reason for the question. Nice tune. How is it used and there are a number of thoughts.
Free Reed- I think I will take you up on that idea. Only I think John while being impressed if I did a decent job on one of those two, would ask me why I can't do the same on the things he gave me!
We have done Waltzes. While I can do them on the piano and organ, I have not yet gotten the "lilt' or 'swagger' if you will, that goes along with the Irish presentation of waltzes. All sounds like heavy handed downbeat. Brings back memories of being a fourth grader marched around school to show off my PA ability on the Blackhawk waltz oompah style!
At that point more of my classmates were just getting into very early rock n roll and the PA was slipping into oblivion!
I appreciate the matches suggested because unlike the reels and jigs where there are a million of 'em that go together, waltzes seem to stand all alone.
Something about them that people love though.
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
Shows how many resources this Board has- THanks Jeremy
I just checked out the Tunes section for The South Wind....humming it, It sounds like the Skye Boat Song variation I have on one of my fiddle competition CD's.
Herself's favorite tune. This could be a real home run!
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
I definitely play South wind as a waltz.... the session used to finish with that, and someone singing the lyrics "all the tunes in the world" to it.
See comments at http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/601
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by spindizzy
"Munster Cloak"
AKA ~ An Fhallaingin Mhuimhneach, Munster March, Spanish Cloak.
http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/1126
Submitted on November 10th 2002 by alastair wilson
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
i picked up sothwind as an an air, arranged for solo mandolin, from a tutor book, emphasis on the first beat, it flows nicely.
in my head i can hear a jig that would follow it really well, trouble is, i don't know what it is - i think it is one D Swarbrick has recorded (no longer have the recording)
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by selston steve
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
A few points about playing waltzes for dancers. It does no harm to know the differences between the tempos of different waltzes..
In Ireland they say that the Irish Rural Heart swings in three four time. The dance is known as 'An Auld Time Waltz' aka An Auld Time Struggle or A Farmer's Tango, and it may well be the only dance that the older people can do.Consequently many Irish songs are written in 3/4 time so that people can dance along. The Irish like their waltzes with a bit of a swing to them, as indeed do our Continental cousins. The Scots also like their waltzes, but a little bit more reserved, more of a gliding motion. If an Englishman asks you to play a waltz, he would expect to hear a slow waltz. If he wanted an old time waltz, he would probably request a Viennese Waltz. Next there is what we use to call a Honky Tonk waltz as done in the Country and Western bars in the USA. The tempo is something between the slow waltz and the old time waltz. The tempo of a song like 'The Old Kentucky Waltz' would be a good example of the tempo for that kind of waltz. Lastly there is The Viletta Waltz and The St Bernard Waltz. Each of these waltzes has its own tune, but of course there are other tunes suitable for both dances...How do I know all this, because I played for all of them at one time or another. Sad to say that many of today's young people haven't a clue how to do these dances, but that would apply to most 'joined up dancing'..........
It's an age thing really!
# Posted on August 28th 2009 by Free Reed
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
Free Reed
thanks
Nice explanation.
I am now going to put the South Wind together with the Munster Cloak and see how it goes
# Posted on August 31st 2009 by zippydw
Re: Advice on how a particular tune is typically used
At Whitby, we waltzed to Mr Lennon's "Norwegian Wood" ...... ..
# Posted on September 1st 2009 by Ebor_fiddler