Dave, I just looked it up in Brendan Breathnach's Ceol Rince na hEireann, a reliable source for multiple names of tunes, and he gives only Nine Points of Roguery. Not the final word (I mean, can an Irish tune exist if it's known by only one name?), but Breathnach is as comprehensive and exhaustive as they come.
I'll post the notes (if it isn't in the tune archive already).
Just an historical note on "Nine Points..." It apparently is a fairly old tune. It was known to have been played here in "the colonies" (later known as the USA) back when we looked up to kings, not presidents. At least one group that plays in historical Williamsburg (Va.) includes this number in their repertoire.
I have heard the tune played in Donegal in a -- sometimes very much -- different version, and when I asked for the title they called it "The Black Mare of Fanad".
The main difference to the version Will posted is that they repeat the 2nd part (or some variation of it) after the 3rd, turning it into a four part-reel. The other difference is that Donegal players seem to hear a C major chord where the rest of the world would play an E minor, and play the 4th bar first part using figures like |=cE (3EEE cGEG | or something similar.
I don
Last night I was reading "Between the Jigs and Reels" by Caoimhin MacAoidh and he also says that in Donegal "The Black Mare of Fanad" is also sometimes known as "The Nine Points of Roguery". I have "The Northern Fiddler" and the tune is listed as "The Black Mare of Fanad" there.
By the way, "Between the Jigs and Reels" is a really good book with lots of stories, folklore, and history of musicians and music of the Donegal tradition. Dunno if it's still in print but it's definitely worth having!
That is SUCH a good book, Chris! I especially liked the picture of Kevin Glackin looking like he's about 12 with his family. Dang, I forgot to tease him about that when he was here.
Yeh, cute little fella, isn't he? I also love the photo of one Paddy Kelly (pg 178) who, from the devlish glint in his eye might be the *original" Rakish Paddy
I also really enjoyed learning about the different families of Donegal musicians. Music in Ireland being what it is, knowing where a player has his or her major influences can be very important... That really is a good book, and I must try to find a copy for myself -- I borrowed a copy from my friend John Carr, a great fiddler up Ft. Colliins way, and so don't have my own.
Johnny Doherty had a tune called The Black Mare of Fanad which is a variant of the 9 Points. Incidentally, I once came across a tape which had it listed as 'The Nine Points of Rougery'.
THE NINE POINTS OF ROGUERY
The Nine Points Of Roguery
Is there an alternative title to this one anyone please
# Posted on December 8th 2001 by Dave Devlin
Re: THE NINE POINTS OF ROGUERY
Dave, I just looked it up in Brendan Breathnach's Ceol Rince na hEireann, a reliable source for multiple names of tunes, and he gives only Nine Points of Roguery. Not the final word (I mean, can an Irish tune exist if it's known by only one name?), but Breathnach is as comprehensive and exhaustive as they come.
I'll post the notes (if it isn't in the tune archive already).
# Posted on December 9th 2001 by Will Harmon
Re: THE NINE POINTS OF ROGUERY
Just an historical note on "Nine Points..." It apparently is a fairly old tune. It was known to have been played here in "the colonies" (later known as the USA) back when we looked up to kings, not presidents. At least one group that plays in historical Williamsburg (Va.) includes this number in their repertoire.
# Posted on December 10th 2001 by Munsondr
Re: THE NINE POINTS OF ROGUERY
I have heard the tune played in Donegal in a -- sometimes very much -- different version, and when I asked for the title they called it "The Black Mare of Fanad".
The main difference to the version Will posted is that they repeat the 2nd part (or some variation of it) after the 3rd, turning it into a four part-reel. The other difference is that Donegal players seem to hear a C major chord where the rest of the world would play an E minor, and play the 4th bar first part using figures like |=cE (3EEE cGEG | or something similar.
I don
# Posted on December 11th 2001 by Joerg Froese
Re: THE NINE POINTS OF ROGUERY
Last night I was reading "Between the Jigs and Reels" by Caoimhin MacAoidh and he also says that in Donegal "The Black Mare of Fanad" is also sometimes known as "The Nine Points of Roguery". I have "The Northern Fiddler" and the tune is listed as "The Black Mare of Fanad" there.
By the way, "Between the Jigs and Reels" is a really good book with lots of stories, folklore, and history of musicians and music of the Donegal tradition. Dunno if it's still in print but it's definitely worth having!
# Posted on December 15th 2001 by soft black stars
Re: THE NINE POINTS OF ROGUERY
That is SUCH a good book, Chris! I especially liked the picture of Kevin Glackin looking like he's about 12 with his family.
Dang, I forgot to tease him about that when he was here.
Zina
# Posted on December 15th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: THE NINE POINTS OF ROGUERY
Yeh, cute little fella, isn't he? I also love the photo of one Paddy Kelly (pg 178) who, from the devlish glint in his eye might be the *original" Rakish Paddy
# Posted on December 15th 2001 by soft black stars
Re: THE NINE POINTS OF ROGUERY
I also really enjoyed learning about the different families of Donegal musicians. Music in Ireland being what it is, knowing where a player has his or her major influences can be very important... That really is a good book, and I must try to find a copy for myself -- I borrowed a copy from my friend John Carr, a great fiddler up Ft. Colliins way, and so don't have my own.
Zina
# Posted on December 16th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: THE NINE POINTS OF ROGUERY
Johnny Doherty had a tune called The Black Mare of Fanad which is a variant of the 9 Points. Incidentally, I once came across a tape which had it listed as 'The Nine Points of Rougery'.
# Posted on December 17th 2001 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: THE NINE POINTS OF ROUGERY
Must have been a French tape.
# Posted on December 17th 2001 by glauber