Just wondering if anyone would have information on the best way to eliminate speaker feedback on an acoustic tenor banjo. I notice that any time I plug in and the volume is cranked up the banjo feeds a lot. Different guys have tried to get the sound right but to no avail. Its very hard to compete with other instruments ( drums, guitars bass etc..) and also to hear myself. I heard that there are pedals that set frequencies and get rid of feedback but was hoping there is someone here that would be able to point me in the right direction. I usually try to stuff the inside of the banjo with towels and I tape the skin but this affects the tonal quality on the banjo. I use a fishman active banjo pickup. Which I find good for gigs that are not to loud.
My band, Celtic Stew, has been using banjo for a few years. We found that it is much easier to prevent feedback if you use a directional microphone rather than a pickup. The Fishman is great for recording, but all active pickups are a problem on stage, especially when attached to a resonator like a banjo or dobro. If you really want to use it though, I suggest that you turn the banjo down as low as possible in the monitors and/or relocate the monitor. Also, any reflective surfaces behind the band will contribute. This is something you can't always control, but a cloth banner with your band's name and logo is not only good business, but will deaden reflections from that direction.
There aren't a lot of magic bullets for this problem. It sounds like you're thinking of a parametric equalizer to "set the frequencies" - that might help, if you're getting resonance in one particular frequency. Probably not, though.
Have you tried retuning the head? If it's tuned very bright, it'll react like a microphone's diaphragm, and resonate with everything that happens on the stage. If you dampen the tuning, you might be able to do away with some of your towels and stuff.
The only simple electronic fix I can think of would be in-ear monitors, but those might not be ideal for your situation.
Get some packing foam (not polystyrene - the other grey materialish kind) and secure that to the resonator. It should suck up the resonance bounce back without affecting the tonal qualities???
Just an idea.
I use a high-impedance passive pickup, which is glued to the underside of the banjo head, immediately below the bridge. A short wire runs from the pickup to a 1/4" jack socket, which is mounted on the front of the rim of the banjo, between two tensioners. I connect to the mixer via a passive DI box.
A simple system (with no batteries to worry about), and absolutely no problems ever with feedback.
The pickup itself I bought (second-hand!) in 1982 for the princely sum of £12, and its been working continuously since then with no maintenance whatsover!
I'll second Mix O'Lydian's suggestion - he's more or less described the Schatten BJ-02 pick-up (see www.schattendesign.com ).
this type of pick-up has minimal mass and, once firmly glued into place , has very little discernable impact on the acoustic tone of the instrument.
DIY fitting is simple with a decent quality, easy-fit, 1/4" jack socket supplied and good instructions - and the glue is included too.
I used one with a pre-amp/EQ pedal in very loud bands for some years without difficulty - prior to that, I had the StewMac 5-Star pick-up (the father of the present Fishmann design) and it was nothing but grief and woe.
the problem with the 5-Star/Fishmann design is that it relies on the vibration of a metal shim to produce a signal - and, by and large, the mass of the shim supplied is inadequate to drive the pick-up properly. adding an on-board pre-amp to boost an inadequate signal only makes the feedback problem worse. if you are stuck with a 5-Star/Fishmann design and can't afford to replace it, try increasing the mass of the metal shim. adding an extra slug of metal to the banjo won't improve the acoustic tone but it should boost the signal so that you can turn down (or disconnect) the pre-amp and run with a much higher-level signal.
If it is the monitors that are causing the feedback then in-ear monitors are probably your best option... that and they are tons better anyway... but quite expensive. If you're not too far from the mixer you can use an iPod radio transmitter (like the ones you can get to listen to your ipod in the car) and a small/pocket-sized FM radio. Use normal headphones as your monitors and run them from the radio in your pocket. Patch the transmitter into an aux output on the mixing board so as to gain individual control of your makeshift in-ears.
I would second Teetotaller's recommendation of the Schatten BJ-02. I've been using one for a couple of months having finally binned the feedback prone microvox mini mic I was using before.
Sound quality is excellent (I use it with a Fishman preamp), and its very feedback resistant - the way it sits on the underside of the skin directly beneath the bridge limits the skin resonance problem. We also use Schatten on our fiddles and an Octave Mandola.
I play banjo myself and have have been plagued by feedbackmyself. One suggestion is to only accept gigs in venues with thick carpets rather than hard flooring as this seems to reduce the problem.
After much trial and tribulations, like bogroad, i too have settled on old beer towels stuffed in the back of the banjo. I appreciate they deaden the sound but we have managed to revive some of the loss via the mixing desk. I also use an equaliser which can cut out the frequencies causing the feedback.
I've read this with interest and will be trying some of the suggestions.
I'm very much an amateur feeling my way in electro-acoustic sound.
I play as a pick-up plunker in a couple of bands, and also one very loud band a few times a year. Not enough time together to experiment, unfortunately.
I have an Andy Perkins banjo with a pick-up that looks like the Schatten described above.
I use a Boss GE-7 EQ pedal that looks like this: http://img.swapz.co.uk/wantedz/2009-07/big/4a576261cb93d_1.jpg
to try and cut back feedback frequencies. It helps a bit. Cutting back the 32k one seems to make most difference.
The feedback seems to result from three situations:
1. Loud drums
2. loud bass
3. loud monitor
Unfortunately, 1 &/or 2 necessitate 3 if you wish to hear yourself onstage. It's not much fun at all playing when you can't hear yourself, but cutting back the monitor is still the fallback solution.
Most of the time, we can't take a sound engineer.
There is an excellent sound engineer locally who knows how best to mix the banjo in with bass and drums, but 99% of the ones we get at outside venues don't have a clue, while being proudly insistent that they know what they're doing. First sign of disaster is when they spend half an hour miking up the drums (like they learned in sound engineer school), then get the banjo to plunk once or twice and give the thumbs up. For any chance of success, it needs to be the other way round timewise, and they need to soundcheck the banjo with bass and drums also playing.
Carpets .. hmm ... not very good for dance halls. I play wherever they get the gigs and I don't ask about floor coverings first.
Banjo feedback
Banjo feedback
Just wondering if anyone would have information on the best way to eliminate speaker feedback on an acoustic tenor banjo. I notice that any time I plug in and the volume is cranked up the banjo feeds a lot. Different guys have tried to get the sound right but to no avail. Its very hard to compete with other instruments ( drums, guitars bass etc..) and also to hear myself. I heard that there are pedals that set frequencies and get rid of feedback but was hoping there is someone here that would be able to point me in the right direction. I usually try to stuff the inside of the banjo with towels and I tape the skin but this affects the tonal quality on the banjo. I use a fishman active banjo pickup. Which I find good for gigs that are not to loud.
Cheers
# Posted on August 24th 2009 by bogroad
Re: Banjo feedback
My band, Celtic Stew, has been using banjo for a few years. We found that it is much easier to prevent feedback if you use a directional microphone rather than a pickup. The Fishman is great for recording, but all active pickups are a problem on stage, especially when attached to a resonator like a banjo or dobro. If you really want to use it though, I suggest that you turn the banjo down as low as possible in the monitors and/or relocate the monitor. Also, any reflective surfaces behind the band will contribute. This is something you can't always control, but a cloth banner with your band's name and logo is not only good business, but will deaden reflections from that direction.
# Posted on August 24th 2009 by Dave McGrath
Re: Banjo feedback
There aren't a lot of magic bullets for this problem. It sounds like you're thinking of a parametric equalizer to "set the frequencies" - that might help, if you're getting resonance in one particular frequency. Probably not, though.
Have you tried retuning the head? If it's tuned very bright, it'll react like a microphone's diaphragm, and resonate with everything that happens on the stage. If you dampen the tuning, you might be able to do away with some of your towels and stuff.
The only simple electronic fix I can think of would be in-ear monitors, but those might not be ideal for your situation.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Banjo feedback
Get some packing foam (not polystyrene - the other grey materialish kind) and secure that to the resonator. It should suck up the resonance bounce back without affecting the tonal qualities???
Just an idea.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by Greenwiggle
Re: Banjo feedback
I use a high-impedance passive pickup, which is glued to the underside of the banjo head, immediately below the bridge. A short wire runs from the pickup to a 1/4" jack socket, which is mounted on the front of the rim of the banjo, between two tensioners. I connect to the mixer via a passive DI box.
A simple system (with no batteries to worry about), and absolutely no problems ever with feedback.
The pickup itself I bought (second-hand!) in 1982 for the princely sum of £12, and its been working continuously since then with no maintenance whatsover!
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Banjo feedback
I'll second Mix O'Lydian's suggestion - he's more or less described the Schatten BJ-02 pick-up (see www.schattendesign.com ).
this type of pick-up has minimal mass and, once firmly glued into place , has very little discernable impact on the acoustic tone of the instrument.
DIY fitting is simple with a decent quality, easy-fit, 1/4" jack socket supplied and good instructions - and the glue is included too.
I used one with a pre-amp/EQ pedal in very loud bands for some years without difficulty - prior to that, I had the StewMac 5-Star pick-up (the father of the present Fishmann design) and it was nothing but grief and woe.
the problem with the 5-Star/Fishmann design is that it relies on the vibration of a metal shim to produce a signal - and, by and large, the mass of the shim supplied is inadequate to drive the pick-up properly. adding an on-board pre-amp to boost an inadequate signal only makes the feedback problem worse. if you are stuck with a 5-Star/Fishmann design and can't afford to replace it, try increasing the mass of the metal shim. adding an extra slug of metal to the banjo won't improve the acoustic tone but it should boost the signal so that you can turn down (or disconnect) the pre-amp and run with a much higher-level signal.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by teetotaller
Re: Banjo feedback
If it is the monitors that are causing the feedback then in-ear monitors are probably your best option... that and they are tons better anyway... but quite expensive. If you're not too far from the mixer you can use an iPod radio transmitter (like the ones you can get to listen to your ipod in the car) and a small/pocket-sized FM radio. Use normal headphones as your monitors and run them from the radio in your pocket. Patch the transmitter into an aux output on the mixing board so as to gain individual control of your makeshift in-ears.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by camwebby
Re: Banjo feedback
I would second Teetotaller's recommendation of the Schatten BJ-02. I've been using one for a couple of months having finally binned the feedback prone microvox mini mic I was using before.
Sound quality is excellent (I use it with a Fishman preamp), and its very feedback resistant - the way it sits on the underside of the skin directly beneath the bridge limits the skin resonance problem. We also use Schatten on our fiddles and an Octave Mandola.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by bodatcha
Re: Banjo feedback
Turn down the monitors !
Also get a good sound engineer.
# Posted on August 25th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Banjo feedback
I play banjo myself and have have been plagued by feedbackmyself. One suggestion is to only accept gigs in venues with thick carpets rather than hard flooring as this seems to reduce the problem.
After much trial and tribulations, like bogroad, i too have settled on old beer towels stuffed in the back of the banjo. I appreciate they deaden the sound but we have managed to revive some of the loss via the mixing desk. I also use an equaliser which can cut out the frequencies causing the feedback.
# Posted on August 26th 2009 by riggers
Re: Banjo feedback
I use a condensor mike on the banjo, never had any feedback, I was told that a shure SM57 is great for banjo.
# Posted on August 30th 2009 by tirvaluk
Re: Banjo feedback
I've read this with interest and will be trying some of the suggestions.
I'm very much an amateur feeling my way in electro-acoustic sound.
I play as a pick-up plunker in a couple of bands, and also one very loud band a few times a year. Not enough time together to experiment, unfortunately.
I have an Andy Perkins banjo with a pick-up that looks like the Schatten described above.
I use a Boss GE-7 EQ pedal that looks like this:
http://img.swapz.co.uk/wantedz/2009-07/big/4a576261cb93d_1.jpg
to try and cut back feedback frequencies. It helps a bit. Cutting back the 32k one seems to make most difference.
The feedback seems to result from three situations:
1. Loud drums
2. loud bass
3. loud monitor
Unfortunately, 1 &/or 2 necessitate 3 if you wish to hear yourself onstage. It's not much fun at all playing when you can't hear yourself, but cutting back the monitor is still the fallback solution.
Most of the time, we can't take a sound engineer.
There is an excellent sound engineer locally who knows how best to mix the banjo in with bass and drums, but 99% of the ones we get at outside venues don't have a clue, while being proudly insistent that they know what they're doing. First sign of disaster is when they spend half an hour miking up the drums (like they learned in sound engineer school), then get the banjo to plunk once or twice and give the thumbs up. For any chance of success, it needs to be the other way round timewise, and they need to soundcheck the banjo with bass and drums also playing.
Carpets .. hmm ... not very good for dance halls. I play wherever they get the gigs and I don't ask about floor coverings first.
I'd like to know more about these in-ear monitors
# Posted on September 4th 2009 by Bren