Just listening to the Joe Duffy show with Alec Finn, Johnny Ringo and others were on about the De Dannan issue and Frankie Gavin re-forming the group (without the lads). Tony McMahon said that Alec Finn was a second rate accompanist. He also said that Johnny Ringo said wasn't a musician. Drummers are not musicians. It is a rubbish opinion. He has just made an idiot of himself on national radio. Pity for him.
The Joe Duffy show on afternoon RTE radio is a phone in prog' on any subject.
De Dannan perform on 5 August at the World Fleadh in Mayo. The new De Dannan line up will be led by original De Dannan member Frankie Gavin on fiddle, flutes & whistles with Michelle Lally on vocals, Damien Mullane on accordian, Mike Galvin on bouzouki & guitars and Eric Cunningham on percussion, flutes & whistles.
In the heated discussion on the show today's show on the use of the name, Alex and Johnny used examples should as Paul McCartney and The Beatles as a 'no no'. Tony McMahon and Dolores Keane came on to castigate Alex and his views. Tony McMahon's views of the Bouzouki as an instrument were not very favourable, a He actually mentioned the fact that Alex came from Yorkshire. What that had to do with the discussion beats me?? Callers said that it was misleading for Frankie Gavin to use the De Dannan name, and that Tony McMahon's remarks about Alex were uncalled for. Mike Hanrahan from Stockton's Wing said that Tony McMahon's antiquated views on Irish Music and the instruments used were disgracefull. Other callers said that Tony McMahon has set himself up as the be all of Irish music and that his ideas were way off the mark. (here here to that) Who does Tony McMahon think he is? said another woman, and how dare he make such a slur on Alex Finn. My own question is 'Is Tony McMahon losing it'?The discussion lasted for over 45 minutes and as a musician myself I was amazed at the bitchiness of some of the 'so called pro musicans' Great stuff
It is a well known fact among musicians who know Tony well that he lost it a long time ago. He sets himself up as a 'puritan' when he in fact has been anything but in recent years.
He changes his opinions to suit his argument.
Tony does not know any facts regarding the De Dannan situation and as Seamus Begley said, is merely looking for a gig.
He calls Alec Finn a second rate accompanist, that the bouzouki is not part of the tradition. I seriously doubt he would talk this way about Steve Cooney, a guitar player with whom Tony has played on numerous occassions. Tony talks out of his a-r-s-e. Here we have a prime example of changing opinions.
Sure his own new show with David Power is nowhere near traditional. He speaks of U2 using computers and stuff. Yet, he now uses computers in his shows. Again, more crap talk.
Tony is p*ssed off because he never reached the heights and respect that he could have after he left The Bothy Band. He is not an 'idealist'. He is 'delusional'.
He does not know Frankie.
As for Frankie, I was asked in Februaru to do the De Dannan shows and other gigis with him. I went to Galway (I live in Dublin) to do a recording for him on a song.
I have STILL not got payed. I have since refused to ever play with him. Frankie ignores my contacts. He is a coward and will always remain so. He has without fail, over the years screwed many musicians over.
This new band is Hibernian Rhapsody. Only the name has changed.
I have a lot of fondness for Tony MacMahon, and I should really listen to the program before chiming in: but it does sound as if he has got this badly wrong.
Regardless of how one percieves the bouzouki's place in Irish music, it's place in de dannan is beyond dispute. Similarly for the bodhran. Not only that but these are as linked with Alex and Johnny as the fiddle in de dannan is with Frankie. And it is obviously the role/position of bouzouki and bodhran in de dannan that is the question here, rather than their role/position in Irish music.
Frankie is a fine fiddle player. But there is a distinctive de dannan sound that the other band members have greatly contributed to. Despite Frankies virtuoso playing (and I'm a big fan of his) to my mind the single factor that most identifies the de dannan sound is alec finn's bouzouki playing.
Keeping de dannan going under the old name if alec and johnny had had enough would perhaps be acceptible if the guys didn't object. But if they have a problem with this then I think they have every right to object.
It's not as if any new band with Frankie playing fiddle would have been lacking in interst without the de dannan name.
But as I said, I've not been able to listen to the show, so I'll refrain from a final judgement for the moment.
Actually, thinking it over, the distinctive de dannan sound, which I primarily associate with thier earliest records, was an almost perfect blend of all the instruments used. In which Alec's bouzouki playes a major role and was probably the most unique element.
"MacMahon, considered by some a "traditionalist," became embroiled in controversy in July, 2009 after calling the musician Alec Finn a "second rate accompanist," to almost universal criticism."
he could at least have changed the name subtley to something like Gay ganann. He would have tapped into a new audience and could travel worldwide once more. Day Danging either?
"I have STILL not got payed. I have since refused to ever play with him. Frankie ignores my contacts. He is a coward and will always remain so." fidlleruairi
Maybe Pay Danann. Is Eric Cunningham his manager or something? And is that singer his partner?
Sorry that was rather immature and childish but i'm sure there is a pun there somewhere if someone could think of a name that sounds like De danann. Maybe Frankie could just used the Dé part (God in Irish) and leave danann to the rest of the band? Its De and his manager/girlfriend/balec fwin/damaian mullane band. he could make a new word something like those massive welsh words. De and his bardic Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogochs.
or for gigs abroad God and his celtic Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogochs
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.com is the longest single word (without hyphens) .com domain name in the world. It was registered by Internetters on 21st October 1999.
This Welsh town actually exists and its name translates as "The church of St. Mary in the hollow of white hazel trees near the rapid whirlpool by St. Tysilio's of the red cave".
For brevity, it is understandable that many of the locals simply refer to their village as "Llanfair" www.llanfair.com or "Llanfair PG" or "Llanfairpwll" which, of course, makes for easier typing and is faster to pronounce.
Prior to October 1999 it was not possible to register .com domain names longer than 26 characters (including 4 for the .com suffix). This denied many businesses and organisations the ability to register their full trading names as a .com domain name. However in October 1999, it became possible to register domain names up to 67 characters in length (including the 4 for the .com suffix).
Companies with names such as Cheltenham and Gloucester were then able to secure their trading names
with a .com suffix www.cheltenhamandgloucester.com (27 characters).
Frankie and his church of St. Mary in the hollow of white hazel trees near the rapid whirlpool by St. Tysilio's of the red cave would be probably more suitable. I'd say Alec would be ok with that.
did anyone pick up on joe Duffy calling Alec "Alex"? Are you ok Alex? "How do you feel after being called a second-rate accompanist by Tony MacMahon"? alec did keep his cool after all - A bit of Fionn MacCool about him. Alec could start up his own band called Fin MaCool and his na Fianna.
I think Johnny Ringo, Alec and anyone who ever played with De Danann should each do their very own reunion. Could get someone to get mullet wig and do impressions of Gavin and get full house too. Barfk like a hound. the Hounds of Culann. Who let the dogs out?OO, oo, ooo.
I detest Tony McMahons' attitute to traditional music. He comes over as very bitter and self-important. He'll slag anyone having a bit of fun with the music but it's OK when he does it? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uiInAcPij4
Jaysus, McMahon really overdid it there. Finn was central to the band, take him out and what do you get? Fair play to Johnny McDonagh for sticking it to him.
I was a bit sad to listen to that programme today. Mc Mahon said a lot of stuff that should never be said, he praised Frankie Gavin, but really did him no favours. I allways liked the first De Dannan album for the interaction between the strings, not just the melodies, but the whole sound. Charlie Piggot, (not Frankie) was the anchor on that album.
to "fiddleruairi's" point above; "he (frankie) has....screwed many musicians over"...
This rings really quite true and the underlying issue, along with the name De Dannan being used, is the fact that good 'ol Frankie asked the lads to do a gig some time back, Johnny eluded to it on the radio today, where he organised that he was going to get the lions share of the gig 90%+ and a few bob to his former band members. It's a different type of person that would do something like this...not sure if there is a proper name for it in trad circles yet.
As for McMuppet (thanks Robert Ryan)...he is a lunatic, has been always been one and the lads were right to ignore his mad comments about the Bouzouki and the fact that Alec is from Yorkshire....what the hell that had anything do with it. Is he racist as well?? Purist my a*se, he is stuck in the dark ages. Were Lunny and Irvine accompanists in Planxty? Was Triona one in The Bothy Band? They defined the sound of the bands in question...and many more bands besides. Sadly, I share a birthplace (Ennis) with that clown.
I only had one opportunity to meet Mr. McMahon, about 10 years ago at a Boston College Gaelic Roots week. He gave a talk on Irish traditional music that was very opinionated, along the lines of what he was saying on the radio recently. He had people in the audience piping up with statements like, "speak for yourself," and "that's your opinion," and the event broke up into clusters of people arguing his various points. Very divisive. Sounds like he hasn't changed much.
That being said, later in the week, I heard him play a slow air on the accordion so beautifully that it literally brought tears to my eyes, before that moment, I had no idea that a button box could be so expressive.......
McMahon may HAVE been a good box player, but at the end of the day his playing reflects his desire to make bumbling speeches based on complete ignorance - he is self indulgent.
He's no more than a self appointed so called expert on music. He has no respect for anyone except himself and those who lap up everything he spouts out.
I've actually bought recordings in the past that have Alec Finn playing on them, without ever having heard them previously. I've yet to be disappointed. In terms of accompaniment he is one of the most influential musicians of my time and brings marvellous qualities to any music he participates in.
Where oh where does, McMuppet, get the notion that De Dannan was ever Frankie Gavin .... & a backing group!
" ... Alec's bouzouki playes a major role and was probably the most unique element."
Well said Chris!
Oh & just for the record McMuppet, the MAIN MAN in De Dannan for me, was actually Charlie Piggott!
In fact, I didn't even notice they had a Fiddle player until I saw them play live!
Fact is, Barney McKenna's playing introduced me to the Banjo, back in '71, but De Dannan's music & in particular Charlie's playing, inspired me to take up the Banjo, myself. Also, it was his Melodeon playing which actually got me interested in reed instruments too.
As for McMuppet's totally scurrilous & personal attack on Alec as a musician, that was totally, totally uncalled for!
I wonder, is he related in any way to a certain Sligo Flute player, with an over inflated impression of his own importance?
Good news McMahon, I see they have created a toy in your image:
Funny enough - I saw De Dannan in New York in the early 90's - without Mr Gavin.
Frankie had his arm in a sling. I can't recall who replaced him on fiddle, but he was a very able substitute. He (the sub) and Alec Finn led the group in a great concert.
Maybe Joe Duffy should contact Steve Cooney and ask him for his opinion... After all, he's only an experienced 'accompanist'.
For me, Alec Finn was/is one of the people who defined the sound of modern Irish folk music. (He also raised the standards of album cover art, as can be seen from the first DD album).
While I also admire Tony McMahon's playing, his use of personal insult and racist remarks has no place in any debate. The bouzouki/guitar argument was played out thirty years ago. They're now established instruments in Irish music and in the hands of sensitive musicians, they add greatly to it. It always amuses me how people who claim to be 'purists' (while playing piano or the banjo or the accordion) argue about the origins of instruments. Where did the banjo or the accordion originate? They're hardly traditional Irish instruments!
Why didn't Frankie Gavin just call his gathering 'Frankie Gavin and Friends'? That would have avoided all the grief. Frankie is not De Danann.
GQ, whilst basically agreeing with you and disagreeing with Tony Mac, I'd have to say: Yes Irvine & Lunny were (primarily) accompaniests in Plaxty. Superlative acompaniests that probably did more to give Planxty their unique sound that even the wonderful O'Flynn & Moore. But it is difficult for me not to think of them as accompaniests.
It comes down to whether you think of it as "mere" accompanyment or rather as something that plays a role in defining the sound of the band. Sometimes accompaniment is "mere", sometimes it isn't
And accomaniment in a band situation/arrangement is not the same thing, to my mind, as accompaniment in a band situation.
>Well said Chris!
>Oh & just for the record McMuppet, the MAIN MAN in De >Dannan for me, was actually Charlie Piggott
Thanks Ptarmigan, and even better said yourself.
The banjo has never been more exciting in Irish music than on those early de dannan albums. And then after that horrible accident robbed us of him banjo playing he went on to do wonders with the box!
Come to think of it, Steve Cooney is Australian and has been known to consort barefoot with aboriginal natives in the outback (and I don't mean West Kerry), whilst sporting dreadlocks and flowery shirts.
Begorrah, the very thought of it gets my didgeridoo in a twist! Now, maybe if I just play 'Joe Cooley's' fifty times with my eyes shut tight ...
This is a good example of why I never look at bios or interviews with any musicians I like. It's about the music not thier opinions. I think people get involved in the personal lives of artists they like and it clouds, one way or another, thier oppinions about the artist. Personally I hate most artists. Bloated self important, flakey and pretentious the whole lot.
I agree with what everyone is saying about Charlie Piggot, I've never heard anything that comes close to his playing on Selected Jigs, Reels and Songs. That was the first trad album I ever bought. There's something special about everyone's paying on that album - even the bodhran! Frankie's fiddle sound was something amazing at that point, he had it on the album he did with Alec F too, but it left shortly after and I don't know where it went. I wish it would come back and I bet Frankie G does too!
One of the few people to speak any sense on the RTE thing was Alec Finn. It's really sad though isn't it? Things associated with bands like Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin and the likes now embedded in Trad music culture ....
The worst thing about it was listening to how inarticulate most of the interviewees became in the face of the minefield they knew they were amongst - with the exception of McM, who went on a similarly inarticulate suicide mission.
I agree with Pavlf´s last paragraph. The only one that was at all articulate was Alec Finn who, I thought, replied with dignity and restraint.
It´s curious that MacMahon, who had a long running feud with Comhaltas in the 60s and 70s accusing them of trying to be the sole arbiters of what is quality in Irish traditional music, has now adopted that mantle himself.
Plus ça change .........etc.
I'm surprised that Tony used the word 'accompanist' like its a bad thing.
From wikipedia - ".......accompaniment is music played to accompany a melody line; it is usually chordal and played by such instruments as (acoustic or electric) guitar, piano, organ and bass guitar...."
This is not derogatory, in fact i think its a compliment. IMHO if you play guitar/bouzouki/piano etc. within ITM and think you are any more than an accompanist then you are doing it wrong.
I wonder what Steve Cooney would class himself as? I mean musically of course.
bunch of complainers. why is everyone always giving out about something in Irish music! its there to be enjoyed!
Castlebar was rocking last night! the TF was packed to the rafters!! unreal gig ! brilliant music! brilliant atmosphere! and amazing energy!
COME ON DE DANANN!!!!!
"McM is in my view a fine exponent of the slow air, but no better than average / adequate on dance music."ˇSean Lead Liath
I disagree. Personally prefer his dance music. Whatever about what he says, he can play. If he's an average/adequate player then the standard of music must be a lot higher than i hear around the country - especially on the box. Don't think an average/adequate box player would inspire the likes of Mick Mulcahy or could record an album like i gCnoc na Graí. Deceiving yourself i believe.
"the TF was packed to the rafters!! unreal gig "
edwina guckian
Of course it was packed to the rafters, it had the best free publicity it could have possibly got. As Behan said no such thing as bad publicity. How much would it cost to have an1 hour plus advert on RTE at one of the prime times for listeners?
It was unreal because it was unreal that those people were De Danann but aren't really. There's still a touch of the draíocht/magic left in the Tuatha Dé Danann so beware...
On a more seroius note what hair grease does Frankie use?
sounds to me like edwina is trying to get a dancing gig with the so called 'de dannan'. I have it from a good source that Frankie refuses to play for dancers!
Oh by the way edwina, it was not 'De Danann'. 'De Danann' was Frankie, alec finn, johnny ringo, charilie piggot, and delores keane.
Frankie is completely exploiting it, and the silly old sycophantic comments like that dont change that fact! Frankie screws over musicians, plain and simple!
The world fleadh is a joke and so are those bloody irish music awards. The whole thing is run by the bodhran player from Hibernian Crapsody, oh im sorry 'De Dannan.'
Oh and Frankie uses a-r-s-e grease from bulls. Mcmahon uses it in his beard too. that explains all the bullsh*t!
I agree that i gCnoc na Graí is a terrific album, but particularly noteworthy for the atmosphere that it conveys - Electrifying stuff - Music from the source, as it were, some of which makes my hair stand - more so than for the technical brilliance of McMahon's playing - and I am sure that llig and others will hold that atmosphere created is more important than technical brilliance - which is an eminently defensible position. I don't want to get in to a mickey contest re specific comparisons with other players - rather sterile argument I think - but there are others the respective styles of whom I would hold to be more spontaneous - which I at any rate prefer. I do think he understands the music, and his rhythm is terrific. On reflection, "Competent" would probably be a closer approximation to what I meant than "Adequate / average".
I would not claim to know the man with any degree of familiarity, but on the couple of occasions I met him I found him perfectly agreeable & he helped me with some pointers when I was very young. He would hardly recall me specifically . My comments re ex-cathedra statements above - well, the man certainly does have his moments. I have difficulty taking lay-popes of any persuasion with any degree of seriousness. Assumed, rather than consensus-earned positions of authority invariably veer toward the pompous, which latter is invariably a rather ridiculous position in which to be.
re Jon Jay's - I doubt that the difference in spelling would be sufficient to circumvent legislation re "Passing off" - if indeed such is found to be applicable - the lawyers will decide, if Finn pursues the matter. "Passing off" refers to representing a product as that of a third party, or causing confusion as to whether the said product is or is not that of the third party. One sees it all the time in East Asia. I had a 'Sansing" phone once - the logo was uncannily like that of Samsung.
Actually, it is not possible to copyright a name, though it can be registered as a trade mark. However, the jurisdiction of any trade mark registered in Ireland is restricted to that country unless the mark has also been registered with the Office for Harmonisation in the Internal Market (the OHIM) which then extends coverage to all the EU member states). For the rest of the world it is necessary to register the trade mark in each individual domain where it is likely to be needed.
I checked the Irish Patents Office, OHIM and UK registers of trade marks and there is no entry for De Dannan (in any of its variant forms) nor any record of an application by Alec Finn.
Trade marks seem to be little used by Irish bands, though I did notice that Davy Spillane owns the rights to the use of the Moving Hearts trade mark, covering:
Class: 9
Audio/video DVD, CD, tapes digital music, analogue music, internet downloadabe MP3 film. Hard disk.
Class: 41
Music group/band concerts, live performance entertainment TV and radio services. Music recitals. Music promotions. Cultural activities. Internet music services (not downloadable).
I'd say that most of the 'name' musicians I have met over the years have been complete stuck-up self-important arseholes ... actually quite a few of the ones who play for free pints have overblown delusions of competency too!!
This type of thing doesn't surprise me in the least ....
Holy s**t this is crazy and I guess I will never get to see anything close to the reformed original lineup live...the bridges are obviously truly burned at this point, which is too bad.
This was really interesting to listen to because it really goes a long way towards answering a query I had a long time ago: why the hell De Dannan split up in the first place. Frankie Gavin is my fav. fiddle player by a long shot but I 100% agree with Alec Finn and Johnny McDonough's point here. Frankie should go back to calling his outfit Hibernian Rhapsody or whatever, apologise to the other guys...and maybe patch things up well enough to have a REAL De Dannan reunion down the road.
I also could understand Dolores Keane's point to some extent, but it seemed as if she really wasn't trying to hear the other guys. As for Tony MacMahon...I can't even think of a word to sum up what he was on about. This guy's playing was a major reason for me taking up the C#/D and not B/C box back in the day and to hear him spouting that garbage about Alec Finn's place of origin, etc. was shocking and disappointing...particularly as a person of colour myself. It makes me wonder what other fascistic notions him and his ilk have hidden in their closets. In any case, me being off-white or non-Irish in origin is certainly not going to stop me from playing the box and hopefully others feel the same way about this issue.
Further to my previous post it transpires that Alec registered De Dannan as a business name under the Registration of Business Names Act 1963 which is a legal requirement for all operating businesses in Ireland. However, in reality, it's little more than that since it offers none of the legal protections enabled by registering a trade mark.
Searching the Companies Registration Office site (http://www.cro.ie) also reveals that FG registered 'Frankie Gavin & De Dannan' as a business name in 2008 and that there are five other companies who've registered with 'De Dannan' as part of their name, including De Dannan Woodwork of Bray.
By the way, the Act to which I referred above does not actually stop anybody else in Ireland from copying a business name. Searching the CRO list reveals that there's a 'Planxty' operating in Doolin, two entries for 'Moving Hearts', and that there was something called 'Bothy Band Limited' which was dissolved in 1989.
I think Alec Finn, Johnny Ringo, Charlie Piggott. Jackie Daly and Dolores Keane should make a new Album and go back on the road and just call it DE DANNAN. I think Frankie Gavin has no right whatsoever to do what he is doing. At the end of the day Frankies reputation is the worst in the business for ripping people off and not paying people what they are due. He puts all the money in his own pocket.
On another note the musicians in this New Band are not good. Wo is this Mike guy on guitar ?. Michelle cant sing and Eric Cunningham is a little business shark who has talked Frankie into all this with a new website and gigs everywhere.
Cunningham is the guy Alec Finn needs to sort out and he should do it fast with a top Music Solicitor like David Landsman. Cunningham can not play the whistle or the Bodhran. He is in the band as a Manager.
Well...I'm not sure that I agree with Andrew Mac's opinion about the musicians in Frankie's band. Damien Mullane, for one, is an insanely good box player and the others sounded fairly good to me. I agree that FG shouldn't be calling his outfit De Dannan but slagging the musical abilities of the other band members isn't really the way to go either.
I'd love to hear this if anyone has a link. Nothing like a bit of Joe Duffy when it really kicks off. By the sounds of it, MacMahon's comments seem reasonable. You're hardly a musician if you can only play the bodhran. I wouldn't describe Alec Finn (Phinn) as a maestro myself. As for Frankie Gavin though - he is a joker, a Michael Flatley character.
So, what became of Tony MacMahon anyway, haven't heard of him in years. Does he still live in Ireland?
The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Just listening to the Joe Duffy show with Alec Finn, Johnny Ringo and others were on about the De Dannan issue and Frankie Gavin re-forming the group (without the lads). Tony McMahon said that Alec Finn was a second rate accompanist. He also said that Johnny Ringo said wasn't a musician. Drummers are not musicians. It is a rubbish opinion. He has just made an idiot of himself on national radio. Pity for him.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by GQ
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
McMuppet.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by Dragut Reis
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Is there a link?
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by bodatcha
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
You can download the podcast, probably from this evening or tomorrow at:
http://www.rte.ie/radio1/podcast/podcast_liveline.xml
Prepare to be shocked!!!!
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by GQ
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Its still on....
http://www.rte.ie/radio/liveplayer_av.html?1,null,200,http://dynamic.rte.ie/av/live/radio/radio1.smil
I'm listening from Japan...
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by Hugo Chavez
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
The Joe Duffy show on afternoon RTE radio is a phone in prog' on any subject.
De Dannan perform on 5 August at the World Fleadh in Mayo. The new De Dannan line up will be led by original De Dannan member Frankie Gavin on fiddle, flutes & whistles with Michelle Lally on vocals, Damien Mullane on accordian, Mike Galvin on bouzouki & guitars and Eric Cunningham on percussion, flutes & whistles.
In the heated discussion on the show today's show on the use of the name, Alex and Johnny used examples should as Paul McCartney and The Beatles as a 'no no'. Tony McMahon and Dolores Keane came on to castigate Alex and his views. Tony McMahon's views of the Bouzouki as an instrument were not very favourable, a He actually mentioned the fact that Alex came from Yorkshire. What that had to do with the discussion beats me?? Callers said that it was misleading for Frankie Gavin to use the De Dannan name, and that Tony McMahon's remarks about Alex were uncalled for. Mike Hanrahan from Stockton's Wing said that Tony McMahon's antiquated views on Irish Music and the instruments used were disgracefull. Other callers said that Tony McMahon has set himself up as the be all of Irish music and that his ideas were way off the mark. (here here to that) Who does Tony McMahon think he is? said another woman, and how dare he make such a slur on Alex Finn. My own question is 'Is Tony McMahon losing it'?The discussion lasted for over 45 minutes and as a musician myself I was amazed at the bitchiness of some of the 'so called pro musicans' Great stuff
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by Free Reed
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Alec.....
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by Hugo Chavez
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
It is a well known fact among musicians who know Tony well that he lost it a long time ago. He sets himself up as a 'puritan' when he in fact has been anything but in recent years.
He changes his opinions to suit his argument.
Tony does not know any facts regarding the De Dannan situation and as Seamus Begley said, is merely looking for a gig.
He calls Alec Finn a second rate accompanist, that the bouzouki is not part of the tradition. I seriously doubt he would talk this way about Steve Cooney, a guitar player with whom Tony has played on numerous occassions. Tony talks out of his a-r-s-e. Here we have a prime example of changing opinions.
Sure his own new show with David Power is nowhere near traditional. He speaks of U2 using computers and stuff. Yet, he now uses computers in his shows. Again, more crap talk.
Tony is p*ssed off because he never reached the heights and respect that he could have after he left The Bothy Band. He is not an 'idealist'. He is 'delusional'.
He does not know Frankie.
As for Frankie, I was asked in Februaru to do the De Dannan shows and other gigis with him. I went to Galway (I live in Dublin) to do a recording for him on a song.
I have STILL not got payed. I have since refused to ever play with him. Frankie ignores my contacts. He is a coward and will always remain so. He has without fail, over the years screwed many musicians over.
This new band is Hibernian Rhapsody. Only the name has changed.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by fiddleruairi
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
I have a lot of fondness for Tony MacMahon, and I should really listen to the program before chiming in: but it does sound as if he has got this badly wrong.
Regardless of how one percieves the bouzouki's place in Irish music, it's place in de dannan is beyond dispute. Similarly for the bodhran. Not only that but these are as linked with Alex and Johnny as the fiddle in de dannan is with Frankie. And it is obviously the role/position of bouzouki and bodhran in de dannan that is the question here, rather than their role/position in Irish music.
Frankie is a fine fiddle player. But there is a distinctive de dannan sound that the other band members have greatly contributed to. Despite Frankies virtuoso playing (and I'm a big fan of his) to my mind the single factor that most identifies the de dannan sound is alec finn's bouzouki playing.
Keeping de dannan going under the old name if alec and johnny had had enough would perhaps be acceptible if the guys didn't object. But if they have a problem with this then I think they have every right to object.
It's not as if any new band with Frankie playing fiddle would have been lacking in interst without the de dannan name.
But as I said, I've not been able to listen to the show, so I'll refrain from a final judgement for the moment.
- chris
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Actually, thinking it over, the distinctive de dannan sound, which I primarily associate with thier earliest records, was an almost perfect blend of all the instruments used. In which Alec's bouzouki playes a major role and was probably the most unique element.
- chris
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Someone's quick.
"MacMahon, considered by some a "traditionalist," became embroiled in controversy in July, 2009 after calling the musician Alec Finn a "second rate accompanist," to almost universal criticism."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tony_MacMahon
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
he could at least have changed the name subtley to something like Gay ganann. He would have tapped into a new audience and could travel worldwide once more. Day Danging either?
"I have STILL not got payed. I have since refused to ever play with him. Frankie ignores my contacts. He is a coward and will always remain so." fidlleruairi
Maybe Pay Danann. Is Eric Cunningham his manager or something? And is that singer his partner?
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by Lord Gordon
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
- chris
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Sorry that was rather immature and childish but i'm sure there is a pun there somewhere if someone could think of a name that sounds like De danann. Maybe Frankie could just used the Dé part (God in Irish) and leave danann to the rest of the band? Its De and his manager/girlfriend/balec fwin/damaian mullane band. he could make a new word something like those massive welsh words. De and his bardic Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogochs.
or for gigs abroad God and his celtic Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogochs
Just looking for a resolution really.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by Lord Gordon
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.com is the longest single word (without hyphens) .com domain name in the world. It was registered by Internetters on 21st October 1999.
This Welsh town actually exists and its name translates as "The church of St. Mary in the hollow of white hazel trees near the rapid whirlpool by St. Tysilio's of the red cave".
For brevity, it is understandable that many of the locals simply refer to their village as "Llanfair" www.llanfair.com or "Llanfair PG" or "Llanfairpwll" which, of course, makes for easier typing and is faster to pronounce.
Prior to October 1999 it was not possible to register .com domain names longer than 26 characters (including 4 for the .com suffix). This denied many businesses and organisations the ability to register their full trading names as a .com domain name. However in October 1999, it became possible to register domain names up to 67 characters in length (including the 4 for the .com suffix).
Companies with names such as Cheltenham and Gloucester were then able to secure their trading names
with a .com suffix www.cheltenhamandgloucester.com (27 characters).
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by Lord Gordon
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Frankie and his church of St. Mary in the hollow of white hazel trees near the rapid whirlpool by St. Tysilio's of the red cave would be probably more suitable. I'd say Alec would be ok with that.
did anyone pick up on joe Duffy calling Alec "Alex"? Are you ok Alex? "How do you feel after being called a second-rate accompanist by Tony MacMahon"? alec did keep his cool after all - A bit of Fionn MacCool about him. Alec could start up his own band called Fin MaCool and his na Fianna.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by Lord Gordon
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
I'm going to the gig tonight and looking forward to it,but after listening to both sides Alec is correct and tony MC is gone in the head
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by kk cats
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Who is MC tonight?
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by Lord Gordon
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
I think Johnny Ringo, Alec and anyone who ever played with De Danann should each do their very own reunion. Could get someone to get mullet wig and do impressions of Gavin and get full house too. Barfk like a hound. the Hounds of Culann. Who let the dogs out?OO, oo, ooo.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by Lord Gordon
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Anyone for banter? I'm impatient for a reaction.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by Lord Gordon
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
bye
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by Lord Gordon
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
I detest Tony McMahons' attitute to traditional music. He comes over as very bitter and self-important. He'll slag anyone having a bit of fun with the music but it's OK when he does it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_uiInAcPij4
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by bogman
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
"I'm De Danann!"
"No, I'm De Danann!"
It seems a bit shneaky to register 'Frankie Gavin and De Danann' (which is what Jennings from the Castlebar Hotel said).
'It's all about music' - what a load of sh*te, it's all about the money of course.
Anyone know who is actually playing in the gig with Gavin then?
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by continuo
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
That was NOT me pitchfork! I hopped on there to see what it said about him and found that, I just had to share with the whole class.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Also, tip of the hat to Lord Gordon, I just learned about Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Jaysus, McMahon really overdid it there. Finn was central to the band, take him out and what do you get? Fair play to Johnny McDonagh for sticking it to him.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by continuo
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Alec Finn master of bouzouki and classy behaviour it appears
- chris
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
I was a bit sad to listen to that programme today. Mc Mahon said a lot of stuff that should never be said, he praised Frankie Gavin, but really did him no favours. I allways liked the first De Dannan album for the interaction between the strings, not just the melodies, but the whole sound. Charlie Piggot, (not Frankie) was the anchor on that album.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by Backer
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
I have always thought Alec, Mr Cool .
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
I can't find it.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Was he speaking ex cathedra when judging Finn ?
He really should clarify whether or not the matter is one of faith and morals in order that we, the lowly sheep of the flock, might know.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by Sean Lead Liath
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
So suddenly we all favour backers and bodhrans?
A bunch of groupies, the whole lot of ye.
# Posted on August 5th 2009 by bodhran bliss
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
to "fiddleruairi's" point above; "he (frankie) has....screwed many musicians over"...
This rings really quite true and the underlying issue, along with the name De Dannan being used, is the fact that good 'ol Frankie asked the lads to do a gig some time back, Johnny eluded to it on the radio today, where he organised that he was going to get the lions share of the gig 90%+ and a few bob to his former band members. It's a different type of person that would do something like this...not sure if there is a proper name for it in trad circles yet.
As for McMuppet (thanks Robert Ryan)...he is a lunatic, has been always been one and the lads were right to ignore his mad comments about the Bouzouki and the fact that Alec is from Yorkshire....what the hell that had anything do with it. Is he racist as well?? Purist my a*se, he is stuck in the dark ages. Were Lunny and Irvine accompanists in Planxty? Was Triona one in The Bothy Band? They defined the sound of the bands in question...and many more bands besides. Sadly, I share a birthplace (Ennis) with that clown.
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by GQ
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
I only had one opportunity to meet Mr. McMahon, about 10 years ago at a Boston College Gaelic Roots week. He gave a talk on Irish traditional music that was very opinionated, along the lines of what he was saying on the radio recently. He had people in the audience piping up with statements like, "speak for yourself," and "that's your opinion," and the event broke up into clusters of people arguing his various points. Very divisive. Sounds like he hasn't changed much.
That being said, later in the week, I heard him play a slow air on the accordion so beautifully that it literally brought tears to my eyes, before that moment, I had no idea that a button box could be so expressive.......
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by AlBrown
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
McMahon may HAVE been a good box player, but at the end of the day his playing reflects his desire to make bumbling speeches based on complete ignorance - he is self indulgent.
He's no more than a self appointed so called expert on music. He has no respect for anyone except himself and those who lap up everything he spouts out.
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by fiddleruairi
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Mr. Bliss is right! For shame on all of us! *#&$*# backers! Where's Llig?
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
I've actually bought recordings in the past that have Alec Finn playing on them, without ever having heard them previously. I've yet to be disappointed. In terms of accompaniment he is one of the most influential musicians of my time and brings marvellous qualities to any music he participates in.
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by Tony O'Rourke
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Where oh where does, McMuppet, get the notion that De Dannan was ever Frankie Gavin .... & a backing group!
" ... Alec's bouzouki playes a major role and was probably the most unique element."
Well said Chris!
Oh & just for the record McMuppet, the MAIN MAN in De Dannan for me, was actually Charlie Piggott!
In fact, I didn't even notice they had a Fiddle player until I saw them play live!
Fact is, Barney McKenna's playing introduced me to the Banjo, back in '71, but De Dannan's music & in particular Charlie's playing, inspired me to take up the Banjo, myself. Also, it was his Melodeon playing which actually got me interested in reed instruments too.
As for McMuppet's totally scurrilous & personal attack on Alec as a musician, that was totally, totally uncalled for!
I wonder, is he related in any way to a certain Sligo Flute player, with an over inflated impression of his own importance?
Good news McMahon, I see they have created a toy in your image:
http://funandfunction.com/images/MrPotatoHead.jpg
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by Ptarmigan
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Funny enough - I saw De Dannan in New York in the early 90's - without Mr Gavin.
Frankie had his arm in a sling. I can't recall who replaced him on fiddle, but he was a very able substitute. He (the sub) and Alec Finn led the group in a great concert.
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by RockyRoader
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Maybe Joe Duffy should contact Steve Cooney and ask him for his opinion... After all, he's only an experienced 'accompanist'.
For me, Alec Finn was/is one of the people who defined the sound of modern Irish folk music. (He also raised the standards of album cover art, as can be seen from the first DD album).
While I also admire Tony McMahon's playing, his use of personal insult and racist remarks has no place in any debate. The bouzouki/guitar argument was played out thirty years ago. They're now established instruments in Irish music and in the hands of sensitive musicians, they add greatly to it. It always amuses me how people who claim to be 'purists' (while playing piano or the banjo or the accordion) argue about the origins of instruments. Where did the banjo or the accordion originate? They're hardly traditional Irish instruments!
Why didn't Frankie Gavin just call his gathering 'Frankie Gavin and Friends'? That would have avoided all the grief. Frankie is not De Danann.
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by amhrán
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
GQ, whilst basically agreeing with you and disagreeing with Tony Mac, I'd have to say: Yes Irvine & Lunny were (primarily) accompaniests in Plaxty. Superlative acompaniests that probably did more to give Planxty their unique sound that even the wonderful O'Flynn & Moore. But it is difficult for me not to think of them as accompaniests.
It comes down to whether you think of it as "mere" accompanyment or rather as something that plays a role in defining the sound of the band. Sometimes accompaniment is "mere", sometimes it isn't
And accomaniment in a band situation/arrangement is not the same thing, to my mind, as accompaniment in a band situation.
- chris
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
>Well said Chris!
>Oh & just for the record McMuppet, the MAIN MAN in De >Dannan for me, was actually Charlie Piggott
Thanks Ptarmigan, and even better said yourself.
The banjo has never been more exciting in Irish music than on those early de dannan albums. And then after that horrible accident robbed us of him banjo playing he went on to do wonders with the box!
- Chris
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
However, Ptarmiganm, this is blantant misrepresentation:
>As for McMuppet's totally scurrilous & personal attack on Alec
>as a musician, that was totally, totally uncalled for!
I think you'll find That Tony M went out of his way to make it clear that Alec was not, in his opinion, a musician.
- Chris
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
How the feck do you spell "accompanithingyist " anyway?
)
(and I'll get in the Tony MAc Joke first so the rest of you don't need to stoop so low: "non-musician"
- Chris
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Come to think of it, Steve Cooney is Australian and has been known to consort barefoot with aboriginal natives in the outback (and I don't mean West Kerry), whilst sporting dreadlocks and flowery shirts.
Begorrah, the very thought of it gets my didgeridoo in a twist! Now, maybe if I just play 'Joe Cooley's' fifty times with my eyes shut tight ...
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by amhrán
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
@ Rockyroader, The substitute at that time was probably Mick Keneally .
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by murfbox
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
This is a good example of why I never look at bios or interviews with any musicians I like. It's about the music not thier opinions. I think people get involved in the personal lives of artists they like and it clouds, one way or another, thier oppinions about the artist. Personally I hate most artists. Bloated self important, flakey and pretentious the whole lot.
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by shanty
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
I agree with what everyone is saying about Charlie Piggot, I've never heard anything that comes close to his playing on Selected Jigs, Reels and Songs. That was the first trad album I ever bought. There's something special about everyone's paying on that album - even the bodhran! Frankie's fiddle sound was something amazing at that point, he had it on the album he did with Alec F too, but it left shortly after and I don't know where it went. I wish it would come back and I bet Frankie G does too!
One of the few people to speak any sense on the RTE thing was Alec Finn. It's really sad though isn't it? Things associated with bands like Pink Floyd, Led Zeppelin and the likes now embedded in Trad music culture ....
The worst thing about it was listening to how inarticulate most of the interviewees became in the face of the minefield they knew they were amongst - with the exception of McM, who went on a similarly inarticulate suicide mission.
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by pavlf
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
I agree with Pavlf´s last paragraph. The only one that was at all articulate was Alec Finn who, I thought, replied with dignity and restraint.
It´s curious that MacMahon, who had a long running feud with Comhaltas in the 60s and 70s accusing them of trying to be the sole arbiters of what is quality in Irish traditional music, has now adopted that mantle himself.
Plus ça change .........etc.
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by murfbox
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
I'm surprised that Tony used the word 'accompanist' like its a bad thing.
From wikipedia - ".......accompaniment is music played to accompany a melody line; it is usually chordal and played by such instruments as (acoustic or electric) guitar, piano, organ and bass guitar...."
This is not derogatory, in fact i think its a compliment. IMHO if you play guitar/bouzouki/piano etc. within ITM and think you are any more than an accompanist then you are doing it wrong.
I wonder what Steve Cooney would class himself as? I mean musically of course.
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by pipers.ie
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
"never trust the artist, trust the tale" as DH Lawrence said.
A person's musical talent doesn't necessarily impart any weight to their opinions
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by Bren
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
McM is in my view a fine exponent of the slow air, but no better than average / adequate on dance music.
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by Sean Lead Liath
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
are you Alec Finn in disguise?
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by Bren
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
bunch of complainers. why is everyone always giving out about something in Irish music! its there to be enjoyed!
Castlebar was rocking last night! the TF was packed to the rafters!! unreal gig ! brilliant music! brilliant atmosphere! and amazing energy!
COME ON DE DANANN!!!!!
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by edwina guckian
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
"McM is in my view a fine exponent of the slow air, but no better than average / adequate on dance music."ˇSean Lead Liath
I disagree. Personally prefer his dance music. Whatever about what he says, he can play. If he's an average/adequate player then the standard of music must be a lot higher than i hear around the country - especially on the box. Don't think an average/adequate box player would inspire the likes of Mick Mulcahy or could record an album like i gCnoc na Graí. Deceiving yourself i believe.
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by Lord Gordon
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
"bunch of complainers. why is everyone always giving out about something in Irish music! its there to be enjoyed!"
edwina guckian
ITS THERE TO BE ENJOYED. Tell that to Rankie. ITS THERE TO BE EXPLOITED.
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by Lord Gordon
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
"the TF was packed to the rafters!! unreal gig "
edwina guckian
Of course it was packed to the rafters, it had the best free publicity it could have possibly got. As Behan said no such thing as bad publicity. How much would it cost to have an1 hour plus advert on RTE at one of the prime times for listeners?
It was unreal because it was unreal that those people were De Danann but aren't really. There's still a touch of the draíocht/magic left in the Tuatha Dé Danann so beware...
On a more seroius note what hair grease does Frankie use?
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by Lord Gordon
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
"I'm listening from Japan"
Who cares bigshot
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by Skull Duggeraigh Dubh
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
sounds to me like edwina is trying to get a dancing gig with the so called 'de dannan'. I have it from a good source that Frankie refuses to play for dancers!
Oh by the way edwina, it was not 'De Danann'. 'De Danann' was Frankie, alec finn, johnny ringo, charilie piggot, and delores keane.
Frankie is completely exploiting it, and the silly old sycophantic comments like that dont change that fact! Frankie screws over musicians, plain and simple!
The world fleadh is a joke and so are those bloody irish music awards. The whole thing is run by the bodhran player from Hibernian Crapsody, oh im sorry 'De Dannan.'
Oh and Frankie uses a-r-s-e grease from bulls. Mcmahon uses it in his beard too. that explains all the bullsh*t!
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by fiddleruairi
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
from snorre in another thread.....http://www.rte.ie/radio1/liveline/1210659.html
Bottom right of page, press "Wednesday"
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by Backer
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Lord G
I agree that i gCnoc na Graí is a terrific album, but particularly noteworthy for the atmosphere that it conveys - Electrifying stuff - Music from the source, as it were, some of which makes my hair stand - more so than for the technical brilliance of McMahon's playing - and I am sure that llig and others will hold that atmosphere created is more important than technical brilliance - which is an eminently defensible position. I don't want to get in to a mickey contest re specific comparisons with other players - rather sterile argument I think - but there are others the respective styles of whom I would hold to be more spontaneous - which I at any rate prefer. I do think he understands the music, and his rhythm is terrific. On reflection, "Competent" would probably be a closer approximation to what I meant than "Adequate / average".
I would not claim to know the man with any degree of familiarity, but on the couple of occasions I met him I found him perfectly agreeable & he helped me with some pointers when I was very young. He would hardly recall me specifically . My comments re ex-cathedra statements above - well, the man certainly does have his moments. I have difficulty taking lay-popes of any persuasion with any degree of seriousness. Assumed, rather than consensus-earned positions of authority invariably veer toward the pompous, which latter is invariably a rather ridiculous position in which to be.
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by Sean Lead Liath
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Why doesn't McMahon pursue a solo career? Frankie could do the same.
# Posted on August 6th 2009 by bodhran bliss
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
I'm curious to know whether the original name "Dé Danann" was also copyrighted and, if not, whether Franke might have used this instead.
Then there would have been no come back. Or he could have changed the spelling yet again....
# Posted on August 7th 2009 by Johnny Jay
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
re Jon Jay's - I doubt that the difference in spelling would be sufficient to circumvent legislation re "Passing off" - if indeed such is found to be applicable - the lawyers will decide, if Finn pursues the matter. "Passing off" refers to representing a product as that of a third party, or causing confusion as to whether the said product is or is not that of the third party. One sees it all the time in East Asia. I had a 'Sansing" phone once - the logo was uncannily like that of Samsung.
# Posted on August 7th 2009 by Sean Lead Liath
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Actually, it is not possible to copyright a name, though it can be registered as a trade mark. However, the jurisdiction of any trade mark registered in Ireland is restricted to that country unless the mark has also been registered with the Office for Harmonisation in the Internal Market (the OHIM) which then extends coverage to all the EU member states). For the rest of the world it is necessary to register the trade mark in each individual domain where it is likely to be needed.
I checked the Irish Patents Office, OHIM and UK registers of trade marks and there is no entry for De Dannan (in any of its variant forms) nor any record of an application by Alec Finn.
Trade marks seem to be little used by Irish bands, though I did notice that Davy Spillane owns the rights to the use of the Moving Hearts trade mark, covering:
Class: 9
Audio/video DVD, CD, tapes digital music, analogue music, internet downloadabe MP3 film. Hard disk.
Class: 41
Music group/band concerts, live performance entertainment TV and radio services. Music recitals. Music promotions. Cultural activities. Internet music services (not downloadable).
# Posted on August 7th 2009 by MacCruiskeen
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
The REAL Tuahta De Danann - Classic. Amazing stuff. Really new sound
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5e-Z4LDUSQ
# Posted on August 8th 2009 by Lord Gordon
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
I'd say that most of the 'name' musicians I have met over the years have been complete stuck-up self-important arseholes ... actually quite a few of the ones who play for free pints have overblown delusions of competency too!!
This type of thing doesn't surprise me in the least ....
# Posted on August 9th 2009 by Frulator
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Holy s**t this is crazy and I guess I will never get to see anything close to the reformed original lineup live...the bridges are obviously truly burned at this point, which is too bad.
This was really interesting to listen to because it really goes a long way towards answering a query I had a long time ago: why the hell De Dannan split up in the first place. Frankie Gavin is my fav. fiddle player by a long shot but I 100% agree with Alec Finn and Johnny McDonough's point here. Frankie should go back to calling his outfit Hibernian Rhapsody or whatever, apologise to the other guys...and maybe patch things up well enough to have a REAL De Dannan reunion down the road.
I also could understand Dolores Keane's point to some extent, but it seemed as if she really wasn't trying to hear the other guys. As for Tony MacMahon...I can't even think of a word to sum up what he was on about. This guy's playing was a major reason for me taking up the C#/D and not B/C box back in the day and to hear him spouting that garbage about Alec Finn's place of origin, etc. was shocking and disappointing...particularly as a person of colour myself. It makes me wonder what other fascistic notions him and his ilk have hidden in their closets. In any case, me being off-white or non-Irish in origin is certainly not going to stop me from playing the box and hopefully others feel the same way about this issue.
What a mess!
# Posted on August 10th 2009 by dtb
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
sup fiddleruairi
if you came to killarney you'd see that frankies show is filled with dancers of all different styles including that girl edwina mcguckin
# Posted on August 11th 2009 by kerrylepper
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Further to my previous post it transpires that Alec registered De Dannan as a business name under the Registration of Business Names Act 1963 which is a legal requirement for all operating businesses in Ireland. However, in reality, it's little more than that since it offers none of the legal protections enabled by registering a trade mark.
Searching the Companies Registration Office site (http://www.cro.ie) also reveals that FG registered 'Frankie Gavin & De Dannan' as a business name in 2008 and that there are five other companies who've registered with 'De Dannan' as part of their name, including De Dannan Woodwork of Bray.
By the way, the Act to which I referred above does not actually stop anybody else in Ireland from copying a business name. Searching the CRO list reveals that there's a 'Planxty' operating in Doolin, two entries for 'Moving Hearts', and that there was something called 'Bothy Band Limited' which was dissolved in 1989.
For anyone still wanting to read more about the Alec-Frankie fall-out the SIndie had this a couple of Sundays back - http://www.independent.ie/entertainment/music/trad-legends-jig-about-with-a-legendary-name-1841533.html.
# Posted on August 11th 2009 by MacCruiskeen
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
I think Alec Finn, Johnny Ringo, Charlie Piggott. Jackie Daly and Dolores Keane should make a new Album and go back on the road and just call it DE DANNAN. I think Frankie Gavin has no right whatsoever to do what he is doing. At the end of the day Frankies reputation is the worst in the business for ripping people off and not paying people what they are due. He puts all the money in his own pocket.
# Posted on August 14th 2009 by Andrew Mac
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
On another note the musicians in this New Band are not good. Wo is this Mike guy on guitar ?. Michelle cant sing and Eric Cunningham is a little business shark who has talked Frankie into all this with a new website and gigs everywhere.
Cunningham is the guy Alec Finn needs to sort out and he should do it fast with a top Music Solicitor like David Landsman. Cunningham can not play the whistle or the Bodhran. He is in the band as a Manager.
# Posted on August 14th 2009 by Andrew Mac
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
Well...I'm not sure that I agree with Andrew Mac's opinion about the musicians in Frankie's band. Damien Mullane, for one, is an insanely good box player and the others sounded fairly good to me. I agree that FG shouldn't be calling his outfit De Dannan but slagging the musical abilities of the other band members isn't really the way to go either.
# Posted on August 14th 2009 by dtb
Re: The Joe Duffy Show - the De Dannan debacle
I'd love to hear this if anyone has a link. Nothing like a bit of Joe Duffy when it really kicks off. By the sounds of it, MacMahon's comments seem reasonable. You're hardly a musician if you can only play the bodhran. I wouldn't describe Alec Finn (Phinn) as a maestro myself. As for Frankie Gavin though - he is a joker, a Michael Flatley character.
So, what became of Tony MacMahon anyway, haven't heard of him in years. Does he still live in Ireland?
# Posted on August 19th 2011 by sandwich