Thanks for the 'heads up" Bernie.
It will be interesting to see how their deliberations compare with the consensus we (25 or so trad players) reached at this year's Fleadh Nua in Ennis. This was discussed at length here on the Yellowboard at http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/21664/comments#comment450578.
In summary the conclusions were:-
1) LISTEN (includes making sure your instrument is in tune)
2) Ask before attempting to record the session
3) Only one accompaniment instrument of a particular type (bodhrán, guitar, etc) at a time
4) Don’t “put down” tunes (eg the Kesh Jig or Drowsie Maggie, etc syndrome)
5) Don’t hi jack someone else’s set (also includes interference with tempo)
6) Be open and friendly
7) Don’t attempt to play tunes you don’t know
8) Don’t play too many tunes others don’t know
9) Always switch mobile phones to "silent" mode
10) Don’t Noodle
Bannerman I know we're beating a dead horse but your 10 "rules" make total sense to me. I must admit I must have broken rule #4 a couple of times, but that's the extent of my transgression
I'd call that one a venial sin Azalin like my breaking of No. 9 originally which accounts for it being there! Mind you if it were during a song or slow air then it could be regarded as mortal. As has been said before, it all boils down to good manners and consideration for others but just the same it will be very interesting to see what tonight's programme comes up with.
Azalin and Bannerman, if I had the authority I would say to both of you: "You are forgiven my son, you may go and sin some more" but I don't have that much authority because I don't want that much authority. Instead, I just want to be a musician.
Many beginners read these "etiquette" posts and it makes them darn scared of sessions. I think most people would be surprised at how the most hardcore etiquette sessioner would open up a lot if the newcomer shows willingness to learn about the session's etiquette in the first place. You might not be friendly to a beginner who shows up, sits down and starts Butterfly right away, out of tune and with a shacky rhythm. But if the person kindly asks "Is that ok if I play this or this" then the beginner might get lot of support for anything he/she wants to try or do.
There is another rule, which I hear happens a lot... if you're a session leader, it doesn't mean that you need to lead everything and tell people what to do, and dictate most sets. I think this type of session leader has social issues as much as anyone breaking rules 1-10.
A very disappointing programme on RTE I'm afraid in that it didn't introduce any new insights. Noel Hill's "big sessions are like hurling teams" and Tansey's "any more than 4 or 5 musicians is too many" are a bit old hat and only true in particular circumstances. As has been said on this site many times, the maximum number of musicians has more to do with the quality of the players rather than the actual number. As a separate issue the programme highlighted quite a few talented young ensembles competing for a place on the Music Network Tour of Ireland. Nice playing, lots of energy and innovation but sadly little evidence of the "Cooley factor" in their performances. I'm not complaining though as this is what trad is all about - a "living tradition" where each generation makes its own unique contribution and the next one can go back to the well (the ITMA, Comhaltas or RTE Archives) to access the authentic stuff.
Azalin made a couple of good points in his previous post. I must admit that I'd be very concerned about "Many beginners read these "etiquette" posts and it makes them darn scared of sessions". These guidelines (rules are an inappropriate description) are meant to achieve the opposite result where sessions are welcoming to all musicians who genuinely wish to participate in what should be an enjoyable experience for all present. I think that most people will agree that there's nothing oppressive about expecting people to try and keep their instruments in tune (No.1), respecting the ethos of the session (Nos. 4, 5 & 8), etc., etc.
The one about the Session Leader is a very good one that anyone aspiring to this role should take on board. Such a role in my opinion is more of a facilitator than that of an organiser. Rather than starting every set, this person should try to ensure that everyone gets a chance to contribute (if they wish - you soon learn to identify those few individuals who prefer not to start sets). The leader should not dominate proceedings but rather keep a light hand on the tiller to ensure that no one else does either and that a good time is had by all - something that's easier said than done! It should also be said that leaders are not a mandatory requirement for a session but somehow, perhaps because of the human condition, someone is nearly always propelled into this role.
At our session I'm more of a custodian who arranges seats and tables and makes sure the jukebox is off, and I generally encourage people to start tunes, but since we rotate hosts, it is a night where myself and my co-hosts get to play more of the tunes we enjoy than on other host's nights. When I go to the sessions I'm not hosting I take my cues from those hosts and let them determine the MO of the session. I don't put any expectations on them to run their session they way we run our one. Instead I think they should determine what tunes to play, who's going to start them, and whatever else they want to do. If they want to start them all--that's fine--hopefully I can keep up. If they want to share the airspace and encourage others to start tunes--cool. If they want a free-for-all... that's cool too, but it's up to them at the end of the day.
Most of the problems that happen at sessions are related to people showing up with expectations and then being disappointed, or people showing up who have no respect for the session they're participating in.
There are probably a good number of the old trad players who had that draíocht in their playing but personally I feel Joe Cooley had it in abundance. Music such as this didn't need clever accompaniment, arrangements or innovative guitar riffs to make it sound exciting - the excitement was in the music. You may be interested Ciaran to note that the banjo player on that clip, Des Mulkere, is still playing great music particularly when he plays in session with box player, Charlie Harris.
The definitive guide to session etiquette was published some years ago on this site by one Kerri Brown (Kerri - If you are out there, I trust that you do not mind my quoting. I have your guide filed and I still nearly suffocate laughing every time I read it).
"Hello, I'm Kerri Brown and I play the fiddle. Guitar too, and bodhran. I have a whole bunch of other instruments, but I think, rather than go on and on about myself, I'd like to share my musical philosophy:
In ITM, I think it's really important to try, especially if you haven't got a clue what you're doing. Bring a bodhran for your first few sessions, or if you can't afford one, borrow some spoons from the bar. Eventually you'll be ready to start playing the tin whistle. At ten bucks, it's a great way to join the fun without spending any money. Or time, even. There's only six different holes, so it's tough to screw up.
Or you could bring a guitar! You can see how welcoming a session is to guitar players by counting how many guitar players are already there. (The more guitar players there are, the more welcome they obviously are.) Most of the chords you learned around the campfire in your Bob Dylan / Simon and Garfunkel days will work just fine, as long as you're random about the order you play them in and don't get stuck in any predictable rhythm structure. That's boring!
Your First Session:
Here are a few ideas on how to get yourself "in" with the session crowd the first time you decide to take the plunge. Once you've flipped through your local entertainment rag and discovered there is a session (NB! Adverts may not say "session" outright. It will usually be more along the lines of "live traditional Irish music", or if the pub has been permitted to place the ad themselves and is located in North America, "Celtic Jam Night". Just remember, anything with the word "Celtic" or "Irish" combined in any way with the words "live" and "music" means everybody is welcome.)
When you first arrive, check to see if there are any pitchers of beer sitting around before you order yourself a drink. If there are, they are probably provided by the bar. So just get yourself an empty glass, hit the musicians' table (preferably while everyone is playing and their hands are busy, or they'll feel guilty for not pouring it for you) and fill 'er up! (Make sure they see that you have a musical case of some kind.)
Remember, it's bad manners at a session to speak unless you have been spoken to, so the best approach is to pull a chair up right behind one of the central players so that you're *right there* should he / she decide to strike up a conversation. It's possible you might not be noticed and the hoped-for conversation won't happen, so try the following strategies to improve your odds of making friends:
1) Play loudly and continuously.
2) Start a set of tunes the instant the regulars finish playing.
3) Make sure your tunes are unusual enough to impress.
4) Tap your foot against the chair of the musician in front of you.
5) If you get a chance (let's say, for example someone stands up to pass a cigarette across the table), shuffle the chair of the person in front of you over to the side little by little to make room for yourself within the central group, where you are much more likely to be noticed.
And remember the Golden Rule: Never introduce yourself. Talking to all the newcomers and making them feel welcome is the responsibility of the regulars. If you speak to them directly, they will be terribly embarassed by their failure to live up to their obligations. If you've really tried everything and they still haven't said Word One to you, you will have to come back the next week, and the next, and the next, until finally they notice you are there and draw you into the big happy family that is the Irish Traditional Music Session.
Once you decide to get serious about playing a melody instrument (like the recorder, Boehm system flute, viola, mandolin, G-sharp Latvian ankle-pipes or piano accordion), you're going to need a copy of O'Neill's and you're going to need to learn how to read music. Once you've figured out how to hit a few of the notes at full speed while scanning the page, bring the book to the session. Ask people who aren't playing what the name of the tune is and if they don't know, interrupt the set leader. Ask them to keep playing until you find the right page, then you can play along! If they aren't playing the notes right, play a little louder to give them a helpful reminder. After all, you have the sheet music. They probably just forgot how the tune really goes, or maybe they can't read music, so they got it all screwed up. Some people might play tunes that aren't in your book. If that happens, give them hell! If it isn't in O'Neill's, it's not Irish. (Or if it is, it's an unreasonably obscure tune and the person playing it is a show-off.)
Now, everybody knows tune after tune of ITM is dull and it all sounds the same, so try to spice it up by playing lots of songs, especially things like "Danny Boy" and "Spancil Hill". The audience loves it. If they aren't responding, open it up to requests, and it wouldn't hurt to play a bit of Van Morrison and U2.
About dancing: If you're really getting into the music while you're playing, it can be a lot of fun for everyone if you stand right up and gyrate around like an inflatable punching-clown. This way, if you're playing the fiddle or flute, you have the added advantage of keeping the punters at bay by threatening to poke out their eyes with your instrument. If you happen to *be* a punter, don't get discouraged, you can join in the fun by dancing yourself. The traditional dance step for excited audience members at a session is three up-and-down jumps followed by an airplane-arm 360 degree spin (and repeat). Grab the other folks in the pub by the elbow and swing them around too, if you can get away with it. If you're tired or maybe just crippled, you can still thump your foot loudly on the floor, or, if you don't have working legs, thump on the table, in a rhythm of some kind. Don't worry if it isn't the same rhythm as the musicians are playing (or even the other thumping, tapping audience members), they are just going to be delighted to know you're listening and having a good time.
The main thing is, just dive in and go nuts. Don't worry about what other people think, sessions are about showing off, alcohol abuse and churning out a constant stream of music! Don't be shy and don't let your glass run dry is my motto. "
Kerri forgot to mention getting one of the musicians to move to make room for your music stand or maybe just give up their chair so you can place your "O'Neills 1001" on it.
These guidelines would be hillarious if it wasn't for the number of people out there who've read them and taken them seriously! The one "Once you've figured out how to hit a few of the notes at full speed while scanning the page, bring the book to the session" immediately comes to mind with or without the book.
If you want to really tick off a group of top-calibre musicians at a session, sit in the middle of the circle, pull out your flute and whistle, and play along with every tune even though you have no clue how to play the instruments in the first place...This happened at Cleary's in Miltown during Willie week, and it's unfortunate that this blatant disregard for session etiquette and the aural sensibilities of those in proximity happen more often than one would hope...This variety of musical ignorance can turn a perfect session into a train wreck before you even have a chance to blink...
session etiquette
session etiquette
Showing on RTE 1 (http://www.rte.ie/live/) tonight 7.30pm 'The Reel Deal' A discussion on session etiquette.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Bernie
Re: session etiquette
Thanks for the 'heads up" Bernie.
It will be interesting to see how their deliberations compare with the consensus we (25 or so trad players) reached at this year's Fleadh Nua in Ennis. This was discussed at length here on the Yellowboard at http://www.thesession.org/discussions/display/21664/comments#comment450578.
In summary the conclusions were:-
1) LISTEN (includes making sure your instrument is in tune)
2) Ask before attempting to record the session
3) Only one accompaniment instrument of a particular type (bodhrán, guitar, etc) at a time
4) Don’t “put down” tunes (eg the Kesh Jig or Drowsie Maggie, etc syndrome)
5) Don’t hi jack someone else’s set (also includes interference with tempo)
6) Be open and friendly
7) Don’t attempt to play tunes you don’t know
8) Don’t play too many tunes others don’t know
9) Always switch mobile phones to "silent" mode
10) Don’t Noodle
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Bannerman
Re: session etiquette
".....only available to viewers in the Republic......"
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: session etiquette
....and to viewers who find an Irish IP address they can use as a proxy as explained by Jeremy in a posting roughly a month ago.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by GaryAMartin
Re: session etiquette
Heres how:
http://www.proxy-server.info/set-proxy-server-in-internet-explorer.shtml
here is paid for proxy server. http://www.irishproxyserver.com/
& here is a list of some free proxy servers working as of 30/06/09
http://www.aliveproxy.com/proxy-list/proxies.aspx/Ireland-ie
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Bernie
Re: session etiquette
Bannerman I know we're beating a dead horse but your 10 "rules" make total sense to me. I must admit I must have broken rule #4 a couple of times, but that's the extent of my transgression
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Azalin
Re: session etiquette
I'd call that one a venial sin Azalin like my breaking of No. 9 originally which accounts for it being there! Mind you if it were during a song or slow air then it could be regarded as mortal. As has been said before, it all boils down to good manners and consideration for others but just the same it will be very interesting to see what tonight's programme comes up with.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Bannerman
Re: session etiquette
Azalin and Bannerman, if I had the authority I would say to both of you: "You are forgiven my son, you may go and sin some more" but I don't have that much authority because I don't want that much authority. Instead, I just want to be a musician.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: session etiquette
Many beginners read these "etiquette" posts and it makes them darn scared of sessions. I think most people would be surprised at how the most hardcore etiquette sessioner would open up a lot if the newcomer shows willingness to learn about the session's etiquette in the first place. You might not be friendly to a beginner who shows up, sits down and starts Butterfly right away, out of tune and with a shacky rhythm. But if the person kindly asks "Is that ok if I play this or this" then the beginner might get lot of support for anything he/she wants to try or do.
There is another rule, which I hear happens a lot... if you're a session leader, it doesn't mean that you need to lead everything and tell people what to do, and dictate most sets. I think this type of session leader has social issues as much as anyone breaking rules 1-10.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Azalin
Re: session etiquette
A very disappointing programme on RTE I'm afraid in that it didn't introduce any new insights. Noel Hill's "big sessions are like hurling teams" and Tansey's "any more than 4 or 5 musicians is too many" are a bit old hat and only true in particular circumstances. As has been said on this site many times, the maximum number of musicians has more to do with the quality of the players rather than the actual number. As a separate issue the programme highlighted quite a few talented young ensembles competing for a place on the Music Network Tour of Ireland. Nice playing, lots of energy and innovation but sadly little evidence of the "Cooley factor" in their performances. I'm not complaining though as this is what trad is all about - a "living tradition" where each generation makes its own unique contribution and the next one can go back to the well (the ITMA, Comhaltas or RTE Archives) to access the authentic stuff.
# Posted on July 11th 2009 by Bannerman
Re: session etiquette
Azalin made a couple of good points in his previous post. I must admit that I'd be very concerned about "Many beginners read these "etiquette" posts and it makes them darn scared of sessions". These guidelines (rules are an inappropriate description) are meant to achieve the opposite result where sessions are welcoming to all musicians who genuinely wish to participate in what should be an enjoyable experience for all present. I think that most people will agree that there's nothing oppressive about expecting people to try and keep their instruments in tune (No.1), respecting the ethos of the session (Nos. 4, 5 & 8), etc., etc.
The one about the Session Leader is a very good one that anyone aspiring to this role should take on board. Such a role in my opinion is more of a facilitator than that of an organiser. Rather than starting every set, this person should try to ensure that everyone gets a chance to contribute (if they wish - you soon learn to identify those few individuals who prefer not to start sets). The leader should not dominate proceedings but rather keep a light hand on the tiller to ensure that no one else does either and that a good time is had by all - something that's easier said than done! It should also be said that leaders are not a mandatory requirement for a session but somehow, perhaps because of the human condition, someone is nearly always propelled into this role.
# Posted on July 11th 2009 by Bannerman
Re: session etiquette
At our session I'm more of a custodian who arranges seats and tables and makes sure the jukebox is off, and I generally encourage people to start tunes, but since we rotate hosts, it is a night where myself and my co-hosts get to play more of the tunes we enjoy than on other host's nights. When I go to the sessions I'm not hosting I take my cues from those hosts and let them determine the MO of the session. I don't put any expectations on them to run their session they way we run our one. Instead I think they should determine what tunes to play, who's going to start them, and whatever else they want to do. If they want to start them all--that's fine--hopefully I can keep up. If they want to share the airspace and encourage others to start tunes--cool. If they want a free-for-all... that's cool too, but it's up to them at the end of the day.
Most of the problems that happen at sessions are related to people showing up with expectations and then being disappointed, or people showing up who have no respect for the session they're participating in.
# Posted on July 11th 2009 by Phantom Button
Re: session etiquette
What is meant by "Cooley factor"?
# Posted on July 12th 2009 by Ciarán.
Re: session etiquette
Ciaran, here's an example at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGzJdoMeoQY
# Posted on July 12th 2009 by Bannerman
Re: session etiquette
Ahh - I see.
Explained.
# Posted on July 12th 2009 by Ciarán.
Re: session etiquette
Thats a mighty version of that tune, so much so I've exported it as an mp3 file and have been listening to it for most of the day.
Cheers Bannerman!
# Posted on July 12th 2009 by Ciarán.
Re: session etiquette
There are probably a good number of the old trad players who had that draíocht in their playing but personally I feel Joe Cooley had it in abundance. Music such as this didn't need clever accompaniment, arrangements or innovative guitar riffs to make it sound exciting - the excitement was in the music. You may be interested Ciaran to note that the banjo player on that clip, Des Mulkere, is still playing great music particularly when he plays in session with box player, Charlie Harris.
# Posted on July 12th 2009 by Bannerman
Re: session etiquette
The definitive guide to session etiquette was published some years ago on this site by one Kerri Brown (Kerri - If you are out there, I trust that you do not mind my quoting. I have your guide filed and I still nearly suffocate laughing every time I read it).
"Hello, I'm Kerri Brown and I play the fiddle. Guitar too, and bodhran. I have a whole bunch of other instruments, but I think, rather than go on and on about myself, I'd like to share my musical philosophy:
In ITM, I think it's really important to try, especially if you haven't got a clue what you're doing. Bring a bodhran for your first few sessions, or if you can't afford one, borrow some spoons from the bar. Eventually you'll be ready to start playing the tin whistle. At ten bucks, it's a great way to join the fun without spending any money. Or time, even. There's only six different holes, so it's tough to screw up.
Or you could bring a guitar! You can see how welcoming a session is to guitar players by counting how many guitar players are already there. (The more guitar players there are, the more welcome they obviously are.) Most of the chords you learned around the campfire in your Bob Dylan / Simon and Garfunkel days will work just fine, as long as you're random about the order you play them in and don't get stuck in any predictable rhythm structure. That's boring!
Your First Session:
Here are a few ideas on how to get yourself "in" with the session crowd the first time you decide to take the plunge. Once you've flipped through your local entertainment rag and discovered there is a session (NB! Adverts may not say "session" outright. It will usually be more along the lines of "live traditional Irish music", or if the pub has been permitted to place the ad themselves and is located in North America, "Celtic Jam Night". Just remember, anything with the word "Celtic" or "Irish" combined in any way with the words "live" and "music" means everybody is welcome.)
When you first arrive, check to see if there are any pitchers of beer sitting around before you order yourself a drink. If there are, they are probably provided by the bar. So just get yourself an empty glass, hit the musicians' table (preferably while everyone is playing and their hands are busy, or they'll feel guilty for not pouring it for you) and fill 'er up! (Make sure they see that you have a musical case of some kind.)
Remember, it's bad manners at a session to speak unless you have been spoken to, so the best approach is to pull a chair up right behind one of the central players so that you're *right there* should he / she decide to strike up a conversation. It's possible you might not be noticed and the hoped-for conversation won't happen, so try the following strategies to improve your odds of making friends:
1) Play loudly and continuously.
2) Start a set of tunes the instant the regulars finish playing.
3) Make sure your tunes are unusual enough to impress.
4) Tap your foot against the chair of the musician in front of you.
5) If you get a chance (let's say, for example someone stands up to pass a cigarette across the table), shuffle the chair of the person in front of you over to the side little by little to make room for yourself within the central group, where you are much more likely to be noticed.
And remember the Golden Rule: Never introduce yourself. Talking to all the newcomers and making them feel welcome is the responsibility of the regulars. If you speak to them directly, they will be terribly embarassed by their failure to live up to their obligations. If you've really tried everything and they still haven't said Word One to you, you will have to come back the next week, and the next, and the next, until finally they notice you are there and draw you into the big happy family that is the Irish Traditional Music Session.
Once you decide to get serious about playing a melody instrument (like the recorder, Boehm system flute, viola, mandolin, G-sharp Latvian ankle-pipes or piano accordion), you're going to need a copy of O'Neill's and you're going to need to learn how to read music. Once you've figured out how to hit a few of the notes at full speed while scanning the page, bring the book to the session. Ask people who aren't playing what the name of the tune is and if they don't know, interrupt the set leader. Ask them to keep playing until you find the right page, then you can play along! If they aren't playing the notes right, play a little louder to give them a helpful reminder. After all, you have the sheet music. They probably just forgot how the tune really goes, or maybe they can't read music, so they got it all screwed up. Some people might play tunes that aren't in your book. If that happens, give them hell! If it isn't in O'Neill's, it's not Irish. (Or if it is, it's an unreasonably obscure tune and the person playing it is a show-off.)
Now, everybody knows tune after tune of ITM is dull and it all sounds the same, so try to spice it up by playing lots of songs, especially things like "Danny Boy" and "Spancil Hill". The audience loves it. If they aren't responding, open it up to requests, and it wouldn't hurt to play a bit of Van Morrison and U2.
About dancing: If you're really getting into the music while you're playing, it can be a lot of fun for everyone if you stand right up and gyrate around like an inflatable punching-clown. This way, if you're playing the fiddle or flute, you have the added advantage of keeping the punters at bay by threatening to poke out their eyes with your instrument. If you happen to *be* a punter, don't get discouraged, you can join in the fun by dancing yourself. The traditional dance step for excited audience members at a session is three up-and-down jumps followed by an airplane-arm 360 degree spin (and repeat). Grab the other folks in the pub by the elbow and swing them around too, if you can get away with it. If you're tired or maybe just crippled, you can still thump your foot loudly on the floor, or, if you don't have working legs, thump on the table, in a rhythm of some kind. Don't worry if it isn't the same rhythm as the musicians are playing (or even the other thumping, tapping audience members), they are just going to be delighted to know you're listening and having a good time.
The main thing is, just dive in and go nuts. Don't worry about what other people think, sessions are about showing off, alcohol abuse and churning out a constant stream of music! Don't be shy and don't let your glass run dry is my motto. "
# Posted on July 14th 2009 by Sean Lead Liath
Re: session etiquette
Thanks very much Sean. I'll be putting that plan into operation next Sunday.
# Posted on July 14th 2009 by Martin_BC
Re: session etiquette
Good call Sean, I hadn't read that in a while! Side splitting!
# Posted on July 14th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: session etiquette
Kerri forgot to mention getting one of the musicians to move to make room for your music stand or maybe just give up their chair so you can place your "O'Neills 1001" on it.
These guidelines would be hillarious if it wasn't for the number of people out there who've read them and taken them seriously! The one "Once you've figured out how to hit a few of the notes at full speed while scanning the page, bring the book to the session" immediately comes to mind with or without the book.
# Posted on July 14th 2009 by Bannerman
Re: session etiquette
I miss Kerri
# Posted on July 14th 2009 by Phantom Button
Re: session etiquette
If you want to really tick off a group of top-calibre musicians at a session, sit in the middle of the circle, pull out your flute and whistle, and play along with every tune even though you have no clue how to play the instruments in the first place...This happened at Cleary's in Miltown during Willie week, and it's unfortunate that this blatant disregard for session etiquette and the aural sensibilities of those in proximity happen more often than one would hope...This variety of musical ignorance can turn a perfect session into a train wreck before you even have a chance to blink...
# Posted on July 17th 2009 by Eirepublican