Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
I really like the guitar accompaniment on The Rights of Man by Eileen Ivers at http://www.myspace.com/eileenivers
I'd like to know what other guitarists think. Just out of interest. Do you like the groove? Do you think it works?
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Guess I don't think much of this rendition of the tune at all. Take an Irish tune and jazz it up and this is what you get. May appeal to some, but not me. Can't say I like any of the instrumentation on this track.
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
I wouldn't buy anything that sounded like that. Probably wouldn't listen much to it if someone gave it to me.
However, If I was in a bar or pub, with no cover charge, drink minimum, moderately priced drinks, having a good assortment of interesting stouts and ales, no loud obnoxious people within ear shot, no one sitting near me wanted to talk to me about politics or TV or thier job or problems with thier wife/husband/kids/relatives etc .... and this came on or was played by a group (that I DID NOT PAY any money TO SEE) it might not be so bad....
I'm a guitar player but the older I get the less I like any guitar backing except the very basic raw chords.
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Not to my taste either. But I wasn't wild about Eileen Ivers playing on that track either. Some good stuff on that album though.
PS: I am a guitar player but am trying to rehabilitate as a fiddler
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
I didn´t listen so much to what the guitar player does but rather to the overall approach to the tune. Hmmhmm...I went to a klezmer concert recently - it´s type of music I find endlessly fascinating: it goes back deeply into European Balkan traditions, combines them with Near East/Turkish elements and so forth. The group on this evening, however, announced themselves as playing klezmer `jazz´, and what they did had nothing to do really with what I see as klezmer: they offered lots of pyrotechnics, endlessless selfindulging soli, `show-off music´, really. Eileen Ivers´ approach, on the other hand, is interesting musically, I think. First, I never quite know what to do with hornpipes - they rarely come out well. ITM often tends to conserve music, put it in a traditionalists´ museum ("That´s the way the tune has to be played"); I get the impression Eileen Ivers has thought about the tune and has found a good way to interpret it, found things in it not everybody would see, and I think she didn´t stray from the spirit of the tune. This approach, of course , would not work with every tune, but she gave me ideas for new ways of playing hornpipes...Other than `Shanty´, I would even pay for a concert like this. Have you never made the experience of playing around, late at night, playing a tune at different tempos, fooling around with it, playing new runs, syncopating, trying out a different rhythmic emphasis ... suddenly something like she does happens, and surprises you, gives you new ideas about the tune,and then you go back to playing it straight, and your whole perception of the tune has changed ??
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Original question - its uninventive and pleasant to the ear, very nice as long as you don't try to label it Irish trad. Ideal guitar style for a hotel lobby on a rainy Sunday morning (I'm not sarcastic).
I also wouldn't pay to go to such a concert, but that is a matter of personal taste and tightfistedness - as a matter of fact, there are very few concerts that I would pay to go to.
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
I enjoyed the interaction between the guitar and fiddle, but would like to have heard the track without the vile keyboard part, and preferably without the percussion too.
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Very nice I think this track works well the other samples not so much.
I like straight trad stuff and fusion there's room for both. Itm, jazz, rock, pop, world and classical the lot, if it's got swing and/or soul to it I'll listen.
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
I can take or leave it. My favourite guitar accompaniment for ITM is on Happy to Meet and Sorry to Part by Joe Burke, Michael Cooney and Terry Corcoran. In fact, it's a brilliant album in every way.
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
I'm not a 'guitarist' per se - that is to say, I play a bit of guitar, among other instruments, but it's not my main instrument. I have enough of an awareness of backing tradtional music to have an opinion, though - I don't see why this question should only be directed at guitarists.
It doesn't make sense to take the guitar playing in isolation, as it's closely tied in with the whole band arrangement, with bass, drums and keyboards. So, all of the instruments are played sensitively, symapthetically to one another and to a high technical standard, and some thought has gone into the arrangement. For what it is, it's very good. But, stylistically speaking, it's not how I want to hear traditional music played - that goes for the fiddle playing as well. Just my preference.
It's not for me to criticise. They play the music they want to play, in its proper context - on recordings and on stage, for people that pay to hear it. If they turned up to a session and played like that (not that I believe they would), I'd throw a pint over them - I don't care if they ARE Eileen Ivers and her band.
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
I am not a guitar player. Hello Joel!
"Whiskey Sangria" is grand. I'll wade into the waters a bit ~ on this tune the accompaniment is good (remember, not a backer)
I do like the piano backing on "Bygone Days" ( I have played piano in a former life). I particularly enjoy that track because I play the tune often. Not in session, just by myself. Give "Bygone Days" a listen Joel. Even you can play this one on tinwhistle.
Cheers!
Almost forgot "Rights of Man" ~ I've heard more interesting versions. It's O. K. though. ;)
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Hi Joel,
not a fan of that, its too far into 'cheese' territory for me (I'm a guitarist). I enjoy playing stuff like that, not so much listening to it though. I've been made too aware of the inherent "hotel lobby/lift music" dodginess of it, its a fine line!
I don't know if any other people have experienced this, it might be more of a guitarists thing, where you learn stuff that you enjoy playing (for techniques or achievement purposes..) but don't enjoy having to listen to it beyond that. The Eileen Ivers tune might fit in that category.
I think it would do a lot for the standards of trad guitar if the capos were left down for a while and people played in standard tuning and got a solid grounding in what's going on on the neck before changing tack to another tuning. Look at the standard of your average jazz or bluegrass guitarist up against the average DADGAD capo slider. I think the versatility of standard tuning is not given enough attention in trad.
All said, I've learned a lot about chord theory, modes and accompaniment in general from stints of learning jazz stuff.
I do like some jazz tinged accompaniment in trad though, it seems to me to sound more acceptable with the banjo or accordion for some reason. With the fiddle the jazz tinge can often end up sounding a bit ropey. Its veers towards that cheesy 'smooth jazz' sound or Stefan Grappelli on a bad day.
I like the way Martin Hayes and Dennis Cahill,or Mairtín O Connor, lean in a (subtle) jazzy direction at times.
Here's Kris Drever with Eamonn Coyne, I like the groove here.
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
"I think it would do a lot for the standards of trad guitar if the capos were left down for a while and people played in standard tuning and got a solid grounding in what's going on on the neck before changing tack to another tuning. Look at the standard of your average jazz or bluegrass guitarist up against the average DADGAD capo slider. I think the versatility of standard tuning is not given enough attention in trad."
Oh, yes. I've been preaching this for a long time.
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
"I think it would do a lot for the standards of trad guitar if the capos were left down for a while and people played in standard tuning and got a solid grounding in what's going on on the neck before changing tack to another tuning. Look at the standard of your average jazz or bluegrass guitarist up against the average DADGAD capo slider. I think the versatility of standard tuning is not given enough attention in trad."
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Thanks for interesting replies. I don't think anyone has tried to say that this is ITM, especially not Ms Ivers. As a guitarist I find it interesting and aI wanted to hear other guitar players' opinions.
Alexweger: I like your story. I played some Klezmer music on the mandolin at a wedding recently. I was sight-reading. Sssh! Don't tell you know who . . .
Shanty: would you go to the concert if someone else payed for you ticket?
Random Notes: you can be an honorary guitar player for the purposes of this discussion, seeing as you are always polite and friendly. I think the guitarist on 'Whisky Sangria' is Al de Meola. I'll have a look for Bygone Days. I still haven't learned to play the whistle!
T: I agree totally about the capos and standard tuning. I play acoustic guitar at sessions and gigs always tuned to CGCGCD, but at home I play a nylon-string guitar always in standard tuning, and never use the capo. It keeps me aware of both worlds at the same time. The Frankie Gavin videos are amazing. He was like a beginner next to Maestro Grapelli, but he looked like he was enjoying himself.
Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
I really like the guitar accompaniment on The Rights of Man by Eileen Ivers at http://www.myspace.com/eileenivers
I'd like to know what other guitarists think. Just out of interest. Do you like the groove? Do you think it works?
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Joel McDermott
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Worst track on that album by a long shot. (I quite like the rest of it though)
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Guess I don't think much of this rendition of the tune at all. Take an Irish tune and jazz it up and this is what you get. May appeal to some, but not me. Can't say I like any of the instrumentation on this track.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Celtic Guitar
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Llig I didn't know that you're a guitarist.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Joel McDermott
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Oh, I'm sorry.
(typical guitarist reaction though, only interested in other guitarists)
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Typical ego driven maniac: doesn't read the question.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Joel McDermott
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
I wouldn't buy anything that sounded like that. Probably wouldn't listen much to it if someone gave it to me.
However, If I was in a bar or pub, with no cover charge, drink minimum, moderately priced drinks, having a good assortment of interesting stouts and ales, no loud obnoxious people within ear shot, no one sitting near me wanted to talk to me about politics or TV or thier job or problems with thier wife/husband/kids/relatives etc .... and this came on or was played by a group (that I DID NOT PAY any money TO SEE) it might not be so bad....
I'm a guitar player but the older I get the less I like any guitar backing except the very basic raw chords.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by shanty
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Hear, hear, shanty.
(P.S. I am not a guitar player either, but I have to say I am happy to agree with llig.)
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by tacoman
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Very clever but certainly not to my taste.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Tony O'Rourke
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Not to my taste either. But I wasn't wild about Eileen Ivers playing on that track either. Some good stuff on that album though.
PS: I am a guitar player but am trying to rehabilitate as a fiddler
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Donough
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Another negative vote from a sort of guitarist. I like ITM and although this uses some of the same notes that's as close as it comes.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by All Moldy
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
I didn´t listen so much to what the guitar player does but rather to the overall approach to the tune. Hmmhmm...I went to a klezmer concert recently - it´s type of music I find endlessly fascinating: it goes back deeply into European Balkan traditions, combines them with Near East/Turkish elements and so forth. The group on this evening, however, announced themselves as playing klezmer `jazz´, and what they did had nothing to do really with what I see as klezmer: they offered lots of pyrotechnics, endlessless selfindulging soli, `show-off music´, really. Eileen Ivers´ approach, on the other hand, is interesting musically, I think. First, I never quite know what to do with hornpipes - they rarely come out well. ITM often tends to conserve music, put it in a traditionalists´ museum ("That´s the way the tune has to be played"); I get the impression Eileen Ivers has thought about the tune and has found a good way to interpret it, found things in it not everybody would see, and I think she didn´t stray from the spirit of the tune. This approach, of course , would not work with every tune, but she gave me ideas for new ways of playing hornpipes...Other than `Shanty´, I would even pay for a concert like this. Have you never made the experience of playing around, late at night, playing a tune at different tempos, fooling around with it, playing new runs, syncopating, trying out a different rhythmic emphasis ... suddenly something like she does happens, and surprises you, gives you new ideas about the tune,and then you go back to playing it straight, and your whole perception of the tune has changed ??
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by alexweger
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Original question - its uninventive and pleasant to the ear, very nice as long as you don't try to label it Irish trad. Ideal guitar style for a hotel lobby on a rainy Sunday morning (I'm not sarcastic).
I also wouldn't pay to go to such a concert, but that is a matter of personal taste and tightfistedness - as a matter of fact, there are very few concerts that I would pay to go to.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by EastPole
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
I enjoyed the interaction between the guitar and fiddle, but would like to have heard the track without the vile keyboard part, and preferably without the percussion too.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by ocarolan
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Very nice I think this track works well the other samples not so much.
I like straight trad stuff and fusion there's room for both. Itm, jazz, rock, pop, world and classical the lot, if it's got swing and/or soul to it I'll listen.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Gromit
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
I can take or leave it. My favourite guitar accompaniment for ITM is on Happy to Meet and Sorry to Part by Joe Burke, Michael Cooney and Terry Corcoran. In fact, it's a brilliant album in every way.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by molaoch
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
thumbs down from me, the whole thing just falls between two styles that i like but wouldn't mix
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by mickyfong
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
I'm not a 'guitarist' per se - that is to say, I play a bit of guitar, among other instruments, but it's not my main instrument. I have enough of an awareness of backing tradtional music to have an opinion, though - I don't see why this question should only be directed at guitarists.
It doesn't make sense to take the guitar playing in isolation, as it's closely tied in with the whole band arrangement, with bass, drums and keyboards. So, all of the instruments are played sensitively, symapthetically to one another and to a high technical standard, and some thought has gone into the arrangement. For what it is, it's very good. But, stylistically speaking, it's not how I want to hear traditional music played - that goes for the fiddle playing as well. Just my preference.
It's not for me to criticise. They play the music they want to play, in its proper context - on recordings and on stage, for people that pay to hear it. If they turned up to a session and played like that (not that I believe they would), I'd throw a pint over them - I don't care if they ARE Eileen Ivers and her band.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by OrganicPeatCreature
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Ahhh, light jazz: music to await death by.
Usually it's light jazz that pulls bits of other genres into its sad, decaying orbit for some "exoticism."
So here we have trad pulling in a light jazz feel. Dull as dirt. Sorry, Eileen.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Ha.
...or music to die for?!
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Duijera Dubh
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
The fiddle and guitar are OK - assuming they are playing in a jazz club (or the lobby of a naff hotel), not a session.
The guy with the Casio thing needs to be taken out and shot.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by skreech
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Dubh—
I've always thought the perfect light jazz radio station jingle would be just these words: "Music to help you diiiiiie."
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by NEW Pure Drop® Ear Canal Oil
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
I am not a guitar player. Hello Joel!
"Whiskey Sangria" is grand. I'll wade into the waters a bit ~ on this tune the accompaniment is good (remember, not a backer)
I do like the piano backing on "Bygone Days" ( I have played piano in a former life). I particularly enjoy that track because I play the tune often. Not in session, just by myself. Give "Bygone Days" a listen Joel. Even you can play this one on tinwhistle.
Cheers!
Almost forgot "Rights of Man" ~ I've heard more interesting versions. It's O. K. though. ;)
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Random_notes
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Hi Joel,
not a fan of that, its too far into 'cheese' territory for me (I'm a guitarist). I enjoy playing stuff like that, not so much listening to it though. I've been made too aware of the inherent "hotel lobby/lift music" dodginess of it, its a fine line!
I don't know if any other people have experienced this, it might be more of a guitarists thing, where you learn stuff that you enjoy playing (for techniques or achievement purposes..) but don't enjoy having to listen to it beyond that. The Eileen Ivers tune might fit in that category.
I think it would do a lot for the standards of trad guitar if the capos were left down for a while and people played in standard tuning and got a solid grounding in what's going on on the neck before changing tack to another tuning. Look at the standard of your average jazz or bluegrass guitarist up against the average DADGAD capo slider. I think the versatility of standard tuning is not given enough attention in trad.
All said, I've learned a lot about chord theory, modes and accompaniment in general from stints of learning jazz stuff.
I do like some jazz tinged accompaniment in trad though, it seems to me to sound more acceptable with the banjo or accordion for some reason. With the fiddle the jazz tinge can often end up sounding a bit ropey. Its veers towards that cheesy 'smooth jazz' sound or Stefan Grappelli on a bad day.
I like the way Martin Hayes and Dennis Cahill,or Mairtín O Connor, lean in a (subtle) jazzy direction at times.
Here's Kris Drever with Eamonn Coyne, I like the groove here.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lnD1BTLZ_iM
Or the energy of Dave Munnelly's stuff
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLARCLSO8ME
Or Frankie Gavin getting an ego check in these clips!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=31-8MLA5kdU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QZiFmOe4Mo&feature=related
Here's Pierre Bensusan's jazz noodling in DADGAD, it makes my knuckles sore just watching the shapes!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiVr89I7_0E
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by T
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Heeeey, Stephane Grappelli never had a bad day!
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Bob himself
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
"I think it would do a lot for the standards of trad guitar if the capos were left down for a while and people played in standard tuning and got a solid grounding in what's going on on the neck before changing tack to another tuning. Look at the standard of your average jazz or bluegrass guitarist up against the average DADGAD capo slider. I think the versatility of standard tuning is not given enough attention in trad."
Oh, yes. I've been preaching this for a long time.
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by Bob himself
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
"I think it would do a lot for the standards of trad guitar if the capos were left down for a while and people played in standard tuning and got a solid grounding in what's going on on the neck before changing tack to another tuning. Look at the standard of your average jazz or bluegrass guitarist up against the average DADGAD capo slider. I think the versatility of standard tuning is not given enough attention in trad."
Hear, hear !
# Posted on July 10th 2009 by molaoch
Re: Guitar players: what do you think of this accompaniment?
Thanks for interesting replies. I don't think anyone has tried to say that this is ITM, especially not Ms Ivers. As a guitarist I find it interesting and aI wanted to hear other guitar players' opinions.
Alexweger: I like your story. I played some Klezmer music on the mandolin at a wedding recently. I was sight-reading. Sssh! Don't tell you know who . . .
Shanty: would you go to the concert if someone else payed for you ticket?
Random Notes: you can be an honorary guitar player for the purposes of this discussion, seeing as you are always polite and friendly. I think the guitarist on 'Whisky Sangria' is Al de Meola. I'll have a look for Bygone Days. I still haven't learned to play the whistle!
T: I agree totally about the capos and standard tuning. I play acoustic guitar at sessions and gigs always tuned to CGCGCD, but at home I play a nylon-string guitar always in standard tuning, and never use the capo. It keeps me aware of both worlds at the same time. The Frankie Gavin videos are amazing. He was like a beginner next to Maestro Grapelli, but he looked like he was enjoying himself.
# Posted on July 16th 2009 by Joel McDermott