Should I pair a spruce top with a black walnut back, or a cedar top? (Sides are poplar.) Tuning in 5ths with nylon strings. ("A" as 1st string open tuning.) Already have the wood for both options. I thought walnut would be better paired with spruce for a little more volume.
If it's a log cabin I'd use cedar for the roof. Maybe it would expand and form a water-tight seal. If it's an instrument tuned in fifths I'd probably buy it from you if you used a spruce top, and if I had some money. I like the idea of nylon strings. Good luck anyway.
What's the instrument? There are lots of opinions about what to expect from various tonewoods, most partly right and partly wrong. You really won't know what you'll get until you build it.
You're going to have to tell us a bit more about what the instrument is - if, as your tunings suggest, it is a mandola type instrument, it won't work with nylon strings (unless you are looking for something you can practice in bed without waking the wife). If it is to be guitar bodied, then everything that has been written about spruce and cedar for classical guitars will apply. Decide what sort of sound you are hoping for, and make your choice based on that.
I'm more interested in your choice of poplar for the sides - why? Apart from the fact that it's easy to work, it's a very boring wood, and I don't think it will be stiff enough.
The internet is awash with discussion about tonewood, and so it is common for our views to be coloured by what we have read or been told. This learned knowledge can prejudice our experience and inhibit our understanding. There are many factors which contribute to why you think this guitar is better than that one. Sound is only one; the choice of timber is just one factor in shaping the sound.
So we return to the question: which timber is best? It is not for me to offer advice to anyone else. But I have no problem in stating what works best for instruments of my design.
European Spruce is my choice every time for soundboards. Without good Spruce my business would end. Luckily there is much to choose from. The timber ages beautifully; is stable in service, is good to work with and the sound it produces improves over the years.
Spruce and Rosewood work fine for me. If you cannot make a good guitar with these two you have to ask yourself where you are going wrong, with these two timbers you can find all the tonal variations you could ever dream of by playing with the design of your work.
Thanks! I like the sound of poplar with a spruce top for a bluegrass tone. Given that walnut and spruce also seems to be a favored pairing, I'll stick with spruce. The instrument is a cross between a mandolin and a ukulele, with two sequences of strings in 5ths, and the lower re-entrantly tuned (as with a popular mode of ukulele tuning - my "double manduku").
Now, should I build the Italian romantic era guitar now sitting on the shelf with 6 strings, or 5? They say the Italian versions of that era had from 5 to 7. I know ukulele chords, and hate cramped fingerboards, so 5 was plan A. That isn't necessarily the best option for guitar tablature, and the use of 5 strings on romantic era guitars is disputed by some sources, so authenticity may merit some consideration. I'm on the verge of drilling the holes for the tuning pegs. I'm tempted to drill six holes and install six pegs, and simply make the nut and tailpiece for five strings for my own convenience, since they can easily be replaced.
I was willing to be swayed one way or the other if the argument was compelling.
(Note: I'm fairly sure I encountered the C whistle for U.S. learners as a suggestion elsewhere prior to posting the related question, although I was grateful for the perspective relative to the Boehm flute and have since changed the order to D whistles.)
My original intent was to mix the wound, classical guitar 3,4, and 5 strings with plain steel 1st and 2nd (in consideration of high bass string tension levels with a 26 inch scale), but I will probably use plain nylon guitar strings in a fine gauge instead as the 1st and 2nd due to tension concerns and potential for fine metal strings to break easily, particularly if the 1st is tuned up to A, as intended given the 26 inch scale.
Given the 26 inch scale, one could, of course, do something very similar with the first five slots of a guitar without a new instrument design. I happen to like the idea of pairing the classic, mandolin shape with nylon strings and guitar scale. IMHO the frets are simply too close together on short scale instruments for ease of play down around the 12th and higher. If I had the long, narrow fingers which so many talented guitarists seem to possess, I'd probably think otherwise.
Joel McDermott - Aquila makes a 5ths set in nylgut for a 4 string ukulele. Ukuleles can be had at virtually any price and quality level that one might consider.
Spruce or Cedar Top
Spruce or Cedar Top
Should I pair a spruce top with a black walnut back, or a cedar top? (Sides are poplar.) Tuning in 5ths with nylon strings. ("A" as 1st string open tuning.) Already have the wood for both options. I thought walnut would be better paired with spruce for a little more volume.
# Posted on July 1st 2009 by Arthur Nordstrom
Re: Spruce or Cedar Top
What are you making?
# Posted on July 1st 2009 by mikeyes
Re: Spruce or Cedar Top
If it's a log cabin I'd use cedar for the roof. Maybe it would expand and form a water-tight seal. If it's an instrument tuned in fifths I'd probably buy it from you if you used a spruce top, and if I had some money. I like the idea of nylon strings. Good luck anyway.
# Posted on July 1st 2009 by Joel McDermott
Re: Spruce or Cedar Top
What's the instrument? There are lots of opinions about what to expect from various tonewoods, most partly right and partly wrong. You really won't know what you'll get until you build it.
# Posted on July 1st 2009 by Bob himself
Re: Spruce or Cedar Top
If a guitar, I have used walnut with spruce tops twice... very great sound.
# Posted on July 1st 2009 by irisnevins
Re: Spruce or Cedar Top
You're going to have to tell us a bit more about what the instrument is - if, as your tunings suggest, it is a mandola type instrument, it won't work with nylon strings (unless you are looking for something you can practice in bed without waking the wife). If it is to be guitar bodied, then everything that has been written about spruce and cedar for classical guitars will apply. Decide what sort of sound you are hoping for, and make your choice based on that.
I'm more interested in your choice of poplar for the sides - why? Apart from the fact that it's easy to work, it's a very boring wood, and I don't think it will be stiff enough.
# Posted on July 1st 2009 by skreech
Re: Spruce or Cedar Top
The internet is awash with discussion about tonewood, and so it is common for our views to be coloured by what we have read or been told. This learned knowledge can prejudice our experience and inhibit our understanding. There are many factors which contribute to why you think this guitar is better than that one. Sound is only one; the choice of timber is just one factor in shaping the sound.
So we return to the question: which timber is best? It is not for me to offer advice to anyone else. But I have no problem in stating what works best for instruments of my design.
European Spruce is my choice every time for soundboards. Without good Spruce my business would end. Luckily there is much to choose from. The timber ages beautifully; is stable in service, is good to work with and the sound it produces improves over the years.
Spruce and Rosewood work fine for me. If you cannot make a good guitar with these two you have to ask yourself where you are going wrong, with these two timbers you can find all the tonal variations you could ever dream of by playing with the design of your work.
http://www.nkforsterguitars.com
# Posted on July 1st 2009 by NKForster
Re: Spruce or Cedar Top
Thanks! I like the sound of poplar with a spruce top for a bluegrass tone. Given that walnut and spruce also seems to be a favored pairing, I'll stick with spruce. The instrument is a cross between a mandolin and a ukulele, with two sequences of strings in 5ths, and the lower re-entrantly tuned (as with a popular mode of ukulele tuning - my "double manduku").
Now, should I build the Italian romantic era guitar now sitting on the shelf with 6 strings, or 5? They say the Italian versions of that era had from 5 to 7. I know ukulele chords, and hate cramped fingerboards, so 5 was plan A. That isn't necessarily the best option for guitar tablature, and the use of 5 strings on romantic era guitars is disputed by some sources, so authenticity may merit some consideration. I'm on the verge of drilling the holes for the tuning pegs. I'm tempted to drill six holes and install six pegs, and simply make the nut and tailpiece for five strings for my own convenience, since they can easily be replaced.
# Posted on July 1st 2009 by Arthur Nordstrom
Re: Spruce or Cedar Top
Arthur - are you really asking, or just rambling on?
# Posted on July 1st 2009 by showaddydadito
Re: Spruce or Cedar Top
lol - I think you should make it in the key of C for American Learners...
# Posted on July 1st 2009 by Yohan
Re: Spruce or Cedar Top
Arthur, drill the holes for your tuning pegs and stop winding us up.
# Posted on July 1st 2009 by molaoch
Re: Spruce or Cedar Top
I was willing to be swayed one way or the other if the argument was compelling.
(Note: I'm fairly sure I encountered the C whistle for U.S. learners as a suggestion elsewhere prior to posting the related question, although I was grateful for the perspective relative to the Boehm flute and have since changed the order to D whistles.)
My original intent was to mix the wound, classical guitar 3,4, and 5 strings with plain steel 1st and 2nd (in consideration of high bass string tension levels with a 26 inch scale), but I will probably use plain nylon guitar strings in a fine gauge instead as the 1st and 2nd due to tension concerns and potential for fine metal strings to break easily, particularly if the 1st is tuned up to A, as intended given the 26 inch scale.
Given the 26 inch scale, one could, of course, do something very similar with the first five slots of a guitar without a new instrument design. I happen to like the idea of pairing the classic, mandolin shape with nylon strings and guitar scale. IMHO the frets are simply too close together on short scale instruments for ease of play down around the 12th and higher. If I had the long, narrow fingers which so many talented guitarists seem to possess, I'd probably think otherwise.
Joel McDermott - Aquila makes a 5ths set in nylgut for a 4 string ukulele. Ukuleles can be had at virtually any price and quality level that one might consider.
# Posted on July 1st 2009 by Arthur Nordstrom