I have recently inherited a violin with a Pierrot head scroll...I has a lovely bassy tone and is easy to play. the only place I have heard mention of it is a forum where the guy who mended it is asking if anyone knows anything about it!! That forum says that it is a factory made violin from the turn of the century sold by Sears. They say it is not very good quality.
I would really like to know if anyone knows anything more either to confirm or refute this. I know it belonged to a well know London Violin teacher, son of an slightly known composer who was attached to Queen Victoria's court.
Has anyone come across these violins?
Fi -- You can't post pix on this site, but if you can upoad images via any number of other sites ie Flickr or youtube it would help id your instrument. I've never heard of a Pierrot scroll, but that doesn't mean much as I'm certainly no expert.
If it helps, here's some pretty good scans of the violin pages from a 1902 Sears Catalogue - perhaps some info can be gleaned:
Manifio is right in the MN thread: to stand any chance of getting an ID you need to post a full set of square on body and head shots.
But I don't see anything in the photos posted to suggest it is anything other than a factory fiddle - certainly the edge work and purfling are much too crude for it to be a craftsman instrument.
Ok I am beginning to accept the idea that this is a factory violin not brilliantly made, probably about 100 years old, what does that really mean...is it a piece of junk...it plays nicely and has a good tone...can some if these be badly purfled, yet still be OK?
I really like playing it, and it is way better than my modern factory made violin. Initially I started this search because i was interested and also because I wondered if I needed to insure it...i paid quite a bit to get this repaired have I wasted my money... for something that was massed produced there seems to be very little information about it!!
If it plays nicely and has a good tone, how can it be a piece of junk? "Factory-made" is a bit misleading, if you think about it in terms of modern automated manufacturing. 100 years ago factory fiddles were still primarily hand-made. Each step of the instrument's creation was often done by a separate person, specialists even, in some cases. so the person/people who made the body and neck aren't necessarily the same ones who did the purfling.
True, the attention to detail, quality and care aren't usually anywhere near the same as a a workshop bench-made instrument, but some fine instruments can be found. There's even a mini-industry of buying up old student fiddles and re-graduating the plates: thinning the belly and backs for a marked improvement in sound.
I like the Pierrot head, too. It has nothing to do with the sound but it's fun.
Fithomson, your instrument may not be worth a lot of money to someone else, but how much is it worth to you?
Thank you fidkid...that is how I feel about it....one luthier was so scathing about it s quality that I began to wonder if i had clothe ears...it is a family piece that had been passed down and has loads of value to us with a dash of romance added...I truly wasn't looking for something 'valuable' out of avarice more wanting a good violin to step up to ...looking at what I could have bought for the price of mending this one I am very happy......just a weak moment of confidence in my ability to judge a good tone and fun violin...
also thanks to the links to the sears catalogue...couldn't see anything matching the pierrot there but it was fun looking!!
Being factory made means it has no rarity value, and therefore no great monetary value. But if what your luthier says about the blocks and linings is right, it may well still be a very nice, playable and sweet sounding instrument which will give you years of pleasure.
The violin market is a crazy one - instrument values bear absolutely no relation to the sound or playability of the instrument. There are many, many very good violins out there which are worth very little, and there are instruments with six figure values which are virtually unplayable.
Enjoy your fiddle for what it is, and don't worry about where it came from and what it's worth.
And don't be discouraged by the comments on MN - some of the world's top luthiers post in there - they constantly work on old masters, and do tend to consider anything less than 200 years old to be kindling. The site also suffers a constant stream of enquiries from people who think they have found a strad in the attic, so it's hardly surprising they become a little jaded and flippant.
I just wondered did or does it matter or is it a fashion thing?
The head of my cittern is a tonne weight and I did think about having a cittern with the tuners attached to the body somehow it would also be about 15cm shorter. Does the scroll bit have to be a certain weight on a fiddle to have balance?
Pierrot head scroll
Pierrot head scroll
I have recently inherited a violin with a Pierrot head scroll...I has a lovely bassy tone and is easy to play. the only place I have heard mention of it is a forum where the guy who mended it is asking if anyone knows anything about it!! That forum says that it is a factory made violin from the turn of the century sold by Sears. They say it is not very good quality.
I would really like to know if anyone knows anything more either to confirm or refute this. I know it belonged to a well know London Violin teacher, son of an slightly known composer who was attached to Queen Victoria's court.
Has anyone come across these violins?
ta Fi
# Posted on June 28th 2009 by Fithomson
Re: Pierrot head scroll
Post some photos.
# Posted on June 28th 2009 by leoj
Re: Pierrot head scroll
how do I do that?
# Posted on June 28th 2009 by Fithomson
Re: Pierrot head scroll
Fi -- You can't post pix on this site, but if you can upoad images via any number of other sites ie Flickr or youtube it would help id your instrument. I've never heard of a Pierrot scroll, but that doesn't mean much as I'm certainly no expert.
If it helps, here's some pretty good scans of the violin pages from a 1902 Sears Catalogue - perhaps some info can be gleaned:
http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=319743
Let us know if you find out anything. Best of luck!
# Posted on June 28th 2009 by fidkid
Re: Pierrot head scroll
Setup an account here[0] then upload the pics and post the link here.
[0] http://photobucket.com/
# Posted on June 28th 2009 by whangee
Re: Pierrot head scroll
Try this link ....as these are photos of the violin posted by the luthier
http://www.maestronet.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=319959
ta Fi
# Posted on June 28th 2009 by Fithomson
Re: Pierrot head scroll
Manifio is right in the MN thread: to stand any chance of getting an ID you need to post a full set of square on body and head shots.
But I don't see anything in the photos posted to suggest it is anything other than a factory fiddle - certainly the edge work and purfling are much too crude for it to be a craftsman instrument.
# Posted on June 28th 2009 by skreech
Re: Pierrot head scroll
Ok I am beginning to accept the idea that this is a factory violin not brilliantly made, probably about 100 years old, what does that really mean...is it a piece of junk...it plays nicely and has a good tone...can some if these be badly purfled, yet still be OK?
I really like playing it, and it is way better than my modern factory made violin. Initially I started this search because i was interested and also because I wondered if I needed to insure it...i paid quite a bit to get this repaired have I wasted my money... for something that was massed produced there seems to be very little information about it!!
thanks for the replies
fi
# Posted on June 29th 2009 by Fithomson
Re: Pierrot head scroll
If it plays nicely and has a good tone, how can it be a piece of junk? "Factory-made" is a bit misleading, if you think about it in terms of modern automated manufacturing. 100 years ago factory fiddles were still primarily hand-made. Each step of the instrument's creation was often done by a separate person, specialists even, in some cases. so the person/people who made the body and neck aren't necessarily the same ones who did the purfling.
True, the attention to detail, quality and care aren't usually anywhere near the same as a a workshop bench-made instrument, but some fine instruments can be found. There's even a mini-industry of buying up old student fiddles and re-graduating the plates: thinning the belly and backs for a marked improvement in sound.
I like the Pierrot head, too. It has nothing to do with the sound but it's fun.
Fithomson, your instrument may not be worth a lot of money to someone else, but how much is it worth to you?
# Posted on June 29th 2009 by fidkid
Re: Pierrot head scroll
Thank you fidkid...that is how I feel about it....one luthier was so scathing about it s quality that I began to wonder if i had clothe ears...it is a family piece that had been passed down and has loads of value to us with a dash of romance added...I truly wasn't looking for something 'valuable' out of avarice more wanting a good violin to step up to ...looking at what I could have bought for the price of mending this one I am very happy......just a weak moment of confidence in my ability to judge a good tone and fun violin...
also thanks to the links to the sears catalogue...couldn't see anything matching the pierrot there but it was fun looking!!
Thanks again
fi
# Posted on June 29th 2009 by Fithomson
Re: Pierrot head scroll
I would second what fidkid says.
Being factory made means it has no rarity value, and therefore no great monetary value. But if what your luthier says about the blocks and linings is right, it may well still be a very nice, playable and sweet sounding instrument which will give you years of pleasure.
The violin market is a crazy one - instrument values bear absolutely no relation to the sound or playability of the instrument. There are many, many very good violins out there which are worth very little, and there are instruments with six figure values which are virtually unplayable.
Enjoy your fiddle for what it is, and don't worry about where it came from and what it's worth.
And don't be discouraged by the comments on MN - some of the world's top luthiers post in there - they constantly work on old masters, and do tend to consider anything less than 200 years old to be kindling. The site also suffers a constant stream of enquiries from people who think they have found a strad in the attic, so it's hardly surprising they become a little jaded and flippant.
# Posted on June 29th 2009 by skreech
Re: Pierrot head scroll
I for one like it having never seen one before.
Considering some of the jokers on this site I am surprised there or not more common.
# Posted on June 29th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Pierrot head scroll
Nice one! I wonder what sort of other appropriate session.org carvings someone could invent?
# Posted on June 29th 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: Pierrot head scroll
Mmmmm I have thought of one........... But am concerned about young children viewing this site
# Posted on June 29th 2009 by bazouki dave
Re: Pierrot head scroll
...aha...yes, an image is coming through. Golly, you're right. Not suitable for children at all!
# Posted on June 29th 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: Pierrot head scroll
Reminded me of this one, though - maybe inspired by people asking to borrow this old violin?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/25282134@N00/3671586427/
# Posted on June 29th 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: Pierrot head scroll
I just wondered did or does it matter or is it a fashion thing?
The head of my cittern is a tonne weight and I did think about having a cittern with the tuners attached to the body somehow it would also be about 15cm shorter. Does the scroll bit have to be a certain weight on a fiddle to have balance?
# Posted on June 29th 2009 by bazouki dave