Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice. I have recently gotten a new Irish bouzouki but now I need to amplify it for gigs and such. Problem is the every option so far seems to have more cons than pros. Using a stationary mic in front of the instrument is not an option for me. And no soundhole pickup will fit the soundhole on the Bouzouki. Piezo pickups seem to be an option but I have heard the make the instrument sound very thin and takes away from the chording sounds. Im sort of running out of options. I just need some sort of amplification solution that will provide the closest thing to my Bouzouki's unamplified sound. Any help would be graciously recieved.
Undersaddle piezos are definitely a superior technology to the magnetic pickups or the old-school contact mics (the little dots that stuck to the face of the instrument), but the new soundboard transducers are far and away better for most applications where you care about the tone of the instrument. If you're playing in a rock band, and the bouzouki is one instrument in a full spectrum of sound including guitars and drums and such, you might look at the undersaddle, but for any situation where the bouzouki will be in the front of the mix and the tone will not be obscured by such clattering and banging, an AST is probably your best bet - especially if you don't like the stationary microphone.
K&K is what I've used and I like them a lot, but PUtW and McIntyre are both well-regarded, so my silence on their qualities is only due to my ignorance.
I wouldn't be swayed particularly by claims of a pickup "specially engineered for the bouzouki", because I can't see any particular engineering you'd need to do. The AST is basically one or more piezoelectric transducers sensitive enough to respond to the movement of the face of the instrument without having to be clamped between the saddle and the face, where the strings drive the current directly. Bouzouki being such a broad category of instruments, tonally speaking, I don't know that any tweaking for a
notional "bouzouki sound" would be beneficial in your particular case - but that's without having seen what it is that McIntyre has in mind. Maybe they can convince you that it's the thing for you.
Placement of the elements is the most important part of installation, and it seems to require a certain level of wizardry. The trick is that you're picking up the movement of the face at some finite set of places, and you want those to be representative of the sound as a whole. How that's done, I don't know - find someone who's had good results would be your best bet, I think.
Good luck, and when you settle on something, let us know what it is and how it worked out.
Try a cheap lapel mike (minus its lapel clip) hung loosely - not fastened at all - just dangling inside the body of the instrument through the soundhole. I know it shouldn't work but it sounds amazingly good and can't be beaten for a few quid! Also works with with a mandolin, banjo or fiddle but too boomy with a guitar.
and get lots of good comments on the sound of the instrument. It sounds very natural to me.
My Mrs uses the Schatten Fiddle pickup (built into the bridge) and a Fishman's preamp. I had the opportunity to compare it directly with a Bridge Electric Violin two nights ago (both playing through my mixer into the same PA at the same time) and the Schatten sounded way more like a fiddle.
I've also just bought the Schatten banjo pickup which sounds great too.
All very feedback resistant. We like our monitors loud when we are gigging.
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Much oblidged. I will research as many of those options as possible. In particular the K&K option. I play in a 3 piece group with a whistle player and a double bass player. The double-bass player uses the K&K pure western pickup and pre-amp combination and I think it sounds very natural. Also the lapel mike option could be worth trying if it works out cheap enough. Will I definately end up needing to use a good Pre-amp to get the best tone?
Kind of depends on whether you've got a lot of money to buy pre-amps when you make your initial purchase, what is available relative to pick-ups and amps, and whether you bother to go back if you decide you can live with what you originally buy. The pre-amp provides the low noise first stage amplifier. If you get a low noise amp, and the double-bass player doesn't tell you that you're ruining the groups sound because you didn't parrot his purchase, you might be able to get away with it.
A pre-amp is a good idea with any pickup, in my experience. They condition the sound for you, and give you more control.
I don't know what they're going for these days, but the LR Baggs Para-Acoustic DI has always been a winner for me as a pre-amp/DI. Basically, it's a pre-amp and DI with good and simple EQ that fits in your guitar case and runs on phantom power, so you don't have to worry about the batteries cutting out on you. One nice design feature: you can more or less get it set right for your instrument and then never touch the knobs again - they're pretty good about staying where you set them, between gigs. Saves a LOT of time in soundchecks, let me tell you.
As for the Baggs undersaddle, though, I had one in my bouzouki and it was a disaster. It worked, but the sound was terrible. I wouldn't recommend it, even with their preamp to tweak the sound.
No, a soundhole-fitting pickup intended for a guitar won't fit most bouzoukis, but I modified a Seymour Duncan "Woody" by grinding off the inside edge of the padded shoulders that fit inside the soundhole of a guitar, and tape it on. Not an acoustic sound, no, but easily fitted, not too expensive secondhand on ebay, and easily removable for acoustic playing. If you need the perfect acoustic sound, some of the above suggestions should fit the bill. Oh, yes, the bill. Quite a lot for the best ones, I'm afraid.
Maybe you should check out the headway pickups: http://www.headwaymusicaudio.com/product_he2gc_acoustic_pickup.php . I have that one installed in my bouzouki and the quality is excellent. Although it is expensive enough (around £200), it is far superior to any piezo based systems I have used previously.
grissom 360, I have a McIntyre feather (made for a guitar) installed inside my bouzouki under the bridge, with the input at the endpin. It sounds phenomenal.
Amplification of Bouzouki
Amplification of Bouzouki
Hi all, I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice. I have recently gotten a new Irish bouzouki but now I need to amplify it for gigs and such. Problem is the every option so far seems to have more cons than pros. Using a stationary mic in front of the instrument is not an option for me. And no soundhole pickup will fit the soundhole on the Bouzouki. Piezo pickups seem to be an option but I have heard the make the instrument sound very thin and takes away from the chording sounds. Im sort of running out of options. I just need some sort of amplification solution that will provide the closest thing to my Bouzouki's unamplified sound. Any help would be graciously recieved.
# Posted on June 27th 2009 by Grissom360
Re: Amplification of Bouzouki
I would investigate pickups by K&K, Pick Up The World, and McIntyre. I believe McIntyre is coming out with a new product specificly for bouzoukis.
Head over to the Mandolin Cafe web site and search the archives in the equipment and CBOM boards
# Posted on June 28th 2009 by Steve L
Re: Amplification of Bouzouki
Undersaddle piezos are definitely a superior technology to the magnetic pickups or the old-school contact mics (the little dots that stuck to the face of the instrument), but the new soundboard transducers are far and away better for most applications where you care about the tone of the instrument. If you're playing in a rock band, and the bouzouki is one instrument in a full spectrum of sound including guitars and drums and such, you might look at the undersaddle, but for any situation where the bouzouki will be in the front of the mix and the tone will not be obscured by such clattering and banging, an AST is probably your best bet - especially if you don't like the stationary microphone.
K&K is what I've used and I like them a lot, but PUtW and McIntyre are both well-regarded, so my silence on their qualities is only due to my ignorance.
I wouldn't be swayed particularly by claims of a pickup "specially engineered for the bouzouki", because I can't see any particular engineering you'd need to do. The AST is basically one or more piezoelectric transducers sensitive enough to respond to the movement of the face of the instrument without having to be clamped between the saddle and the face, where the strings drive the current directly. Bouzouki being such a broad category of instruments, tonally speaking, I don't know that any tweaking for a
notional "bouzouki sound" would be beneficial in your particular case - but that's without having seen what it is that McIntyre has in mind. Maybe they can convince you that it's the thing for you.
Placement of the elements is the most important part of installation, and it seems to require a certain level of wizardry. The trick is that you're picking up the movement of the face at some finite set of places, and you want those to be representative of the sound as a whole. How that's done, I don't know - find someone who's had good results would be your best bet, I think.
Good luck, and when you settle on something, let us know what it is and how it worked out.
# Posted on June 28th 2009 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Amplification of Bouzouki
Try a cheap lapel mike (minus its lapel clip) hung loosely - not fastened at all - just dangling inside the body of the instrument through the soundhole. I know it shouldn't work but it sounds amazingly good and can't be beaten for a few quid! Also works with with a mandolin, banjo or fiddle but too boomy with a guitar.
# Posted on June 28th 2009 by Rob
Re: Amplification of Bouzouki
I think L.R Baggs pick-ups win hands down. The Baggs "element" gives a great sound to any bouzouki.
# Posted on June 28th 2009 by seaniemcg
Re: Amplification of Bouzouki
I would totally recommend Schatten piezo pickups combined with a good preamp.
I have one of these:
http://www.schattendesign.com/bouzouki_mandola.htm
plugged into one of these:
http://www.fishman.com/products/details.asp?id=42
and get lots of good comments on the sound of the instrument. It sounds very natural to me.
My Mrs uses the Schatten Fiddle pickup (built into the bridge) and a Fishman's preamp. I had the opportunity to compare it directly with a Bridge Electric Violin two nights ago (both playing through my mixer into the same PA at the same time) and the Schatten sounded way more like a fiddle.
I've also just bought the Schatten banjo pickup which sounds great too.
All very feedback resistant. We like our monitors loud when we are gigging.
No....I don't work for them!
# Posted on June 28th 2009 by bodatcha
Re: Amplification of Bouzouki
The Schattens do really need the preamp to make the most of their sound - as do most piezos.
# Posted on June 28th 2009 by bodatcha
Re: Amplification of Bouzouki
Thanks for the suggestions everyone. Much oblidged. I will research as many of those options as possible. In particular the K&K option. I play in a 3 piece group with a whistle player and a double bass player. The double-bass player uses the K&K pure western pickup and pre-amp combination and I think it sounds very natural. Also the lapel mike option could be worth trying if it works out cheap enough. Will I definately end up needing to use a good Pre-amp to get the best tone?
# Posted on June 28th 2009 by Grissom360
Re: Amplification of Bouzouki
Kind of depends on whether you've got a lot of money to buy pre-amps when you make your initial purchase, what is available relative to pick-ups and amps, and whether you bother to go back if you decide you can live with what you originally buy. The pre-amp provides the low noise first stage amplifier. If you get a low noise amp, and the double-bass player doesn't tell you that you're ruining the groups sound because you didn't parrot his purchase, you might be able to get away with it.
# Posted on June 28th 2009 by Arthur Nordstrom
Re: Amplification of Bouzouki
A pre-amp is a good idea with any pickup, in my experience. They condition the sound for you, and give you more control.
I don't know what they're going for these days, but the LR Baggs Para-Acoustic DI has always been a winner for me as a pre-amp/DI. Basically, it's a pre-amp and DI with good and simple EQ that fits in your guitar case and runs on phantom power, so you don't have to worry about the batteries cutting out on you. One nice design feature: you can more or less get it set right for your instrument and then never touch the knobs again - they're pretty good about staying where you set them, between gigs. Saves a LOT of time in soundchecks, let me tell you.
As for the Baggs undersaddle, though, I had one in my bouzouki and it was a disaster. It worked, but the sound was terrible. I wouldn't recommend it, even with their preamp to tweak the sound.
# Posted on June 28th 2009 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: Amplification of Bouzouki
No, a soundhole-fitting pickup intended for a guitar won't fit most bouzoukis, but I modified a Seymour Duncan "Woody" by grinding off the inside edge of the padded shoulders that fit inside the soundhole of a guitar, and tape it on. Not an acoustic sound, no, but easily fitted, not too expensive secondhand on ebay, and easily removable for acoustic playing. If you need the perfect acoustic sound, some of the above suggestions should fit the bill. Oh, yes, the bill. Quite a lot for the best ones, I'm afraid.
# Posted on June 28th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Amplification of Bouzouki
Maybe you should check out the headway pickups: http://www.headwaymusicaudio.com/product_he2gc_acoustic_pickup.php . I have that one installed in my bouzouki and the quality is excellent. Although it is expensive enough (around £200), it is far superior to any piezo based systems I have used previously.
# Posted on June 29th 2009 by Sinocal
Re: Amplification of Bouzouki
Just recently got the Radial Tonebone PZ Pre, which is not cheap, but is quite fantastic.
# Posted on June 30th 2009 by matt
Re: Amplification of Bouzouki
grissom 360, I have a McIntyre feather (made for a guitar) installed inside my bouzouki under the bridge, with the input at the endpin. It sounds phenomenal.
# Posted on July 3rd 2009 by Kerry Evan