Sounds to me like people were having bad days during 2007 with many a discussion on this such topic. Much did it make me chuckle with the many irrelevant comments, some bizare at the most, but others with an amazing amount of sense. Many of the people I play in sessions with, diss the Fleadhs as they feel again, as the previous discussions have said so well, destroy individuality, regional styles, etc...... With this in mind, should ITM have a grading system put in place, like the existing system in classical music, and should regular exams be operated throughout the country for ITM?? This would inevitably destroy the last few remaining senses of individuality and the such likes. Should the Fleadhs be abolished then?? I fear this such case as regardless of the competitions, the sessions at these Fleadhana can be tremendous, uplifting, almost magical. Its the main event in the world where thousands come together to share in the simplicity of a shared hobbie, or interest that is, Irish Traditional Music.
This progression, or revolution as I would call it now, is a time of harsh bitterness. It has almost nearly created a split, or a schism between two sides of extremists, "the progs" and "the pures". These "progs" to me are trad emos, mono stylistic, lacking individuality, people following a flock of black sheep. This was never meant to be the case when it was first played, wherever it was firstly played. ITM is meant to be enjoyed by all, not bickered over by people, not changed in any way possible for financial gain or the such likes. Its meant to bring people together, not to seperate them into groups. It has helped in such instances as the Peace Process in Ireland, and has also opened a connection to other countries where our fellow Irish people, or Irish generations, do live.
If I can say so myself, "Trad Emos", that was a good one..........
The prog/purist debate has always existed, just as, since the ancient greeks at least, we have people writing about how kids these days are less <insert positive adjective> and more <insert negative adjective> than their elders.
In the various "traditional music" genres in Europe, we are in a peculiar situation: "traditional" is a label given by people from *outside* to people who live in a "traditional" society (rural, isolated, very little conception of having a "job").
Such societies do not exist anymore in Europe (or most of the rest of the world). The conditions for the development of traditional music are therefore extinct - very recently so (a hundred years or less).
There is also much misconception, both as to what *was* "traditional" and to how this is relevant to what we do today.
What we have inherited will necessarily evolve, and there is little we can do to influence this evolution - but because it is evolving in completely different conditions to those in which it was born and developed, we *may* be justified in worrying about the direction this evolution is taking.
The best I think we can do is
- take heart in the fact that like any kind of evolution, the stuff of quality will stand the test of time
- try to pass on as much information as possible while trying to weed out misconceptions
- consciously choose to participate with time and money only in activities which we think have merit (e.g. participate in sessions at the fleadh, but ignore the rest of it, not buy Lunasa cd's if we don't think what they are doing is "right", etc.)
Every language evolves, not one language can remain the same, and evolving is almost always a good thing, not a progression, but a difference, it is the people involved that get it all mixed up with their lack of understanding for those who are different. We should seek to understand the similarities and enjoy the differences, as soon as you put the strait jacket on, the music suffers, no prgression, no changes, no other influences.
Traditional has evolved continuously in the past 300 years, listen to the fiddle players nowadays
Obviously, what was traditional back then, is different than what we presume is traditional today. It has developed in many ways since its humble origins way back whenever, but is it safe to say that these new developments are safe for the survival of a fiercely important part of our country's, Ireland, integral identity?? Do we want jazz fusion (part of another country's culture) to be called our own when really its not?? Do we want these new "trad emos" constantly playing "their mono tonal and mono stylistic" music everywhere??
Yes maybe we should not buy Lunasa or Flook cd's, but for sheer technical éclat on the Irish instruments, they can't be beaten. On the other hand, when others, ie many young people nowadays, try to imitate these geniuses, the music becomes bland, lacking originality, individuality, etc. Its a catch 22 situation basically now, with no winners, well unless you are sitting smug in between the purists and the progs and dont give a s**t really what goes on. Id say you are nearly better off there, not to get caught up in this.
Who was it I heard at a folk festival last summer ? Was it Lunasa or Flook, or someone similar ?
Anyway, this name band with a bass and a ( mainly rhythm ) guitar. I'd have given anything to have been able to swap the guitar and bass with other melody instruments. Plus, that is my ( barn-dance ) band line-up and it works for dances with the public, but not so much for just listening. And I could have played the guitar and bass parts with one hand tied behind my back. So I thought "why aren't I up there on stage, I'm that good too ? "
It's not that traditional, but Fairport and Steeleye were doing it, plus other stuff, 30+ years ago.
Progessite Traditional Music??
Progessite Traditional Music??
Sounds to me like people were having bad days during 2007 with many a discussion on this such topic. Much did it make me chuckle with the many irrelevant comments, some bizare at the most, but others with an amazing amount of sense. Many of the people I play in sessions with, diss the Fleadhs as they feel again, as the previous discussions have said so well, destroy individuality, regional styles, etc...... With this in mind, should ITM have a grading system put in place, like the existing system in classical music, and should regular exams be operated throughout the country for ITM?? This would inevitably destroy the last few remaining senses of individuality and the such likes. Should the Fleadhs be abolished then?? I fear this such case as regardless of the competitions, the sessions at these Fleadhana can be tremendous, uplifting, almost magical. Its the main event in the world where thousands come together to share in the simplicity of a shared hobbie, or interest that is, Irish Traditional Music.
This progression, or revolution as I would call it now, is a time of harsh bitterness. It has almost nearly created a split, or a schism between two sides of extremists, "the progs" and "the pures". These "progs" to me are trad emos, mono stylistic, lacking individuality, people following a flock of black sheep. This was never meant to be the case when it was first played, wherever it was firstly played. ITM is meant to be enjoyed by all, not bickered over by people, not changed in any way possible for financial gain or the such likes. Its meant to bring people together, not to seperate them into groups. It has helped in such instances as the Peace Process in Ireland, and has also opened a connection to other countries where our fellow Irish people, or Irish generations, do live.
If I can say so myself, "Trad Emos", that was a good one..........
Considerable regards,
Cían Ó.
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by mixofmolydians
Re: Progessite Traditional Music??
S**t, Progressive spelled wrong, stupid thumbs.....
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by mixofmolydians
Re: Progessite Traditional Music??
The prog/purist debate has always existed, just as, since the ancient greeks at least, we have people writing about how kids these days are less <insert positive adjective> and more <insert negative adjective> than their elders.
In the various "traditional music" genres in Europe, we are in a peculiar situation: "traditional" is a label given by people from *outside* to people who live in a "traditional" society (rural, isolated, very little conception of having a "job").
Such societies do not exist anymore in Europe (or most of the rest of the world). The conditions for the development of traditional music are therefore extinct - very recently so (a hundred years or less).
There is also much misconception, both as to what *was* "traditional" and to how this is relevant to what we do today.
What we have inherited will necessarily evolve, and there is little we can do to influence this evolution - but because it is evolving in completely different conditions to those in which it was born and developed, we *may* be justified in worrying about the direction this evolution is taking.
The best I think we can do is
- take heart in the fact that like any kind of evolution, the stuff of quality will stand the test of time
- try to pass on as much information as possible while trying to weed out misconceptions
- consciously choose to participate with time and money only in activities which we think have merit (e.g. participate in sessions at the fleadh, but ignore the rest of it, not buy Lunasa cd's if we don't think what they are doing is "right", etc.)
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by Tirno
Re: Progessite Traditional Music??
Every language evolves, not one language can remain the same, and evolving is almost always a good thing, not a progression, but a difference, it is the people involved that get it all mixed up with their lack of understanding for those who are different. We should seek to understand the similarities and enjoy the differences, as soon as you put the strait jacket on, the music suffers, no prgression, no changes, no other influences.
Traditional has evolved continuously in the past 300 years, listen to the fiddle players nowadays
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by Shylock
Re: Progessite Traditional Music??
Reject the 21st century!
Retreat into the Gaelic culture of the past!
Back to the Golden Age!
- Chris, only half joking, increasingly sympathesing with John Cowper Powys sublimation into his mythical welsh past
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: Progressive Traditional Music??
Obviously, what was traditional back then, is different than what we presume is traditional today. It has developed in many ways since its humble origins way back whenever, but is it safe to say that these new developments are safe for the survival of a fiercely important part of our country's, Ireland, integral identity?? Do we want jazz fusion (part of another country's culture) to be called our own when really its not?? Do we want these new "trad emos" constantly playing "their mono tonal and mono stylistic" music everywhere??
Yes maybe we should not buy Lunasa or Flook cd's, but for sheer technical éclat on the Irish instruments, they can't be beaten. On the other hand, when others, ie many young people nowadays, try to imitate these geniuses, the music becomes bland, lacking originality, individuality, etc. Its a catch 22 situation basically now, with no winners, well unless you are sitting smug in between the purists and the progs and dont give a s**t really what goes on. Id say you are nearly better off there, not to get caught up in this.
Tirno, i rather appreciate your points.
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by mixofmolydians
Re: Progessite Traditional Music??
Who was it I heard at a folk festival last summer ? Was it Lunasa or Flook, or someone similar ?
Anyway, this name band with a bass and a ( mainly rhythm ) guitar. I'd have given anything to have been able to swap the guitar and bass with other melody instruments. Plus, that is my ( barn-dance ) band line-up and it works for dances with the public, but not so much for just listening. And I could have played the guitar and bass parts with one hand tied behind my back. So I thought "why aren't I up there on stage, I'm that good too ? "
It's not that traditional, but Fairport and Steeleye were doing it, plus other stuff, 30+ years ago.
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Progessite Traditional Music??
YAWN.... It's just tunes and pints. Trying to make it anything else is a waste of time.
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by Fishmonger