Hello all. I'm a fiddle player and fairly new on this site. I've been reading some of the recent discussions and you seem to be a knowledgable, helpful bunch. Can you help me out please?
What exactly is a cran? I know it's an ornament you can do on pipes, flutes and whistles, especially on the low D, but what is it?
Is it something that can be translated to the fiddle? A piper friend of mine tried to explain the cran to me last night after our session, but I'm still not sure exactly what it is. He also said that he'd heard fiddle players play with crans. Are there any fiddle players out there that can tell me how to play a cran on a fiddle?
I know about triplets (strait or fingered, on or off the beat), rolls (short and long), and cuts, but I've never heard of a cran on a fiddle. Any comments?
LOL, was it really, bb? Kira, not to worry, it's not that you shouldn't ask questions that have been asked before (after all, we've a lot of new members who might be able to add something else to the discussion), but that *I* didn't have anything to add to it! ;)
Wow, I just read through that old thread (I think it was from before I discovered this place). What a wealth of info! I can't wait to try the stuff out!
So Kira and anyone else--don't be afraid to bring up something that might have already been discussed before!
Oh, there's any amount of stuff like that from back then, Andee. There's a real honest reason we call Will the Senseii, you should *see* some of the amazing posts where he'd go on for paragraphs on things like scratchy triplets or such. Right now The Session is more about the crack at the moment, but if you go back and look through the old threads, you'll find technical info galore.
Unfortunately, there's no real easy way to go back and just browse the old threads. You can go back by just putting in discussion thread numbers in the URL thinger of your browser, but then you'll get every discussion whether you're interested or not, or you can just keep hitting "previous" on the threads list, but that's rather tiring, considering we've well over two thousand discussion threads now. Jeremy would have to completely rework the way the site works in order to change that, unfortunately...
Oh, and a PPS, Kira -- we've discussed crans further...if you use the discussion "search" function and put in "cran" you'll probably find them easily enough.
I yhink part of the secret, a major part perhaps, of doing cuts, rolls and crans on the fiddle is utter relaxation in the left hand and fingers, for it is only then that you can get the speed of movement necessary. A useful comparison may be if you get to see close-up a concert violinist doing a sustained trill in a concerto, say. The trilling is extremely quick and is more a fluttering of the finger on the string than anything else. Both this and the cuts, rolls and crans of Irish fiddle playing demand the same level of relaxation.
Trevor
Just to add a bit to Trevor's good advice about relaxation of the left hand - still on the left hand, *economy of movement* is crucial. No matter what the phrase or ornament, only lift the fingers enough to clear the string(s), no higher. No exceptions!
They told me when I first started out that someday as I learned to relax that my index finger would stop popping up. It never has. Finally somebody or other (Will?) told me to stop worrying about it so long as it was working. ;)
Zina - if it's still working then don't worry about it - it's just that the quicker the phrase you have to play, the easier it becomes when fingers stay close to the string at all times. Depending on one's style, it may never become a problem.
Thanks, Zina! I actually have done searches on triplets and the like and used to print out the stuff, until I realized how much ink it was using up--now I just take notes with pen and paper....and yeah, Will is very cool--Senseii for sure; just wish he'd be around a bit more these days, but I understand....
I had the good fortune to play with a Donegal fiddler the other night and he does a snap (bowed triplet) with a cut when the piper does a cran, it fits very well.
It’s important to have relaxed fingers when playing but just relaxing will not teach you haw to do something fast.
What has to happen is that you must teach the unconscious mechanical learning bit of your nervous system to play the notes.
This you do by doing the movements SLOWLY and ACCURATLY many times. The accuracy is very important so play it ONLY as fast as you can do it accurately.
When your VERY secure at that speed, begin to speed it up slowly until you can get it slightly faster than you need, and practice it regularly.
Sorry for all the vehemence but I learned this the hard way on the GHB and believe me it will save you lots of extra work in the future.
Can a fiddle cran?
Can a fiddle cran?
Hello all. I'm a fiddle player and fairly new on this site. I've been reading some of the recent discussions and you seem to be a knowledgable, helpful bunch. Can you help me out please?
What exactly is a cran? I know it's an ornament you can do on pipes, flutes and whistles, especially on the low D, but what is it?
Is it something that can be translated to the fiddle? A piper friend of mine tried to explain the cran to me last night after our session, but I'm still not sure exactly what it is. He also said that he'd heard fiddle players play with crans. Are there any fiddle players out there that can tell me how to play a cran on a fiddle?
I know about triplets (strait or fingered, on or off the beat), rolls (short and long), and cuts, but I've never heard of a cran on a fiddle. Any comments?
-Kira
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by fiddleK
Re: Can a fiddle cran?
Yes, and it's been discussed a lot here in the past -- try http://thesession.org/discussions/display.php/520 for a starter!
Zina
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Can a fiddle cran?
Thanks! Sorry for the redundancy. Like I said, I'm new here.
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by fiddleK
Re: Can a fiddle cran?
hehehe - that was my first post! Ah the memories
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by bb
Re: Can a fiddle cran?
LOL, was it really, bb? Kira, not to worry, it's not that you shouldn't ask questions that have been asked before (after all, we've a lot of new members who might be able to add something else to the discussion), but that *I* didn't have anything to add to it! ;)
Zina
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Can a fiddle cran?
You can do things on yer fiddle most pipers would
kill eachother to be able to do, why in G_d's name
would you want to excite em?
Besides in Breathneach Vol 1 it shows you right there
on page 1 id fiddler's Cran.
A
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by sorefingers
Re: Can a fiddle cran?
Crans sound wicked on the fiddle!
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by bb
Re: Can a fiddle cran?
Wow, I just read through that old thread (I think it was from before I discovered this place). What a wealth of info! I can't wait to try the stuff out!
So Kira and anyone else--don't be afraid to bring up something that might have already been discussed before!
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by Andee
Re: Can a fiddle cran?
Oh, there's any amount of stuff like that from back then, Andee. There's a real honest reason we call Will the Senseii, you should *see* some of the amazing posts where he'd go on for paragraphs on things like scratchy triplets or such. Right now The Session is more about the crack at the moment, but if you go back and look through the old threads, you'll find technical info galore.
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by Zina Lee
P.S.
Unfortunately, there's no real easy way to go back and just browse the old threads. You can go back by just putting in discussion thread numbers in the URL thinger of your browser, but then you'll get every discussion whether you're interested or not, or you can just keep hitting "previous" on the threads list, but that's rather tiring, considering we've well over two thousand discussion threads now. Jeremy would have to completely rework the way the site works in order to change that, unfortunately...
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by Zina Lee
Oh, and a PPS, Kira -- we've discussed crans further...if you use the discussion "search" function and put in "cran" you'll probably find them easily enough.
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Can a fiddle cran?
I yhink part of the secret, a major part perhaps, of doing cuts, rolls and crans on the fiddle is utter relaxation in the left hand and fingers, for it is only then that you can get the speed of movement necessary. A useful comparison may be if you get to see close-up a concert violinist doing a sustained trill in a concerto, say. The trilling is extremely quick and is more a fluttering of the finger on the string than anything else. Both this and the cuts, rolls and crans of Irish fiddle playing demand the same level of relaxation.
Trevor
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by lazyhound
Oops! Typing fingers too relaxed perhaps! It should be "think" and not "yhink"!
Trevor
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by lazyhound
Re: Can a fiddle cran?
Just to add a bit to Trevor's good advice about relaxation of the left hand - still on the left hand, *economy of movement* is crucial. No matter what the phrase or ornament, only lift the fingers enough to clear the string(s), no higher. No exceptions!
Jim
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by Worldfiddler
Re: Can a fiddle cran?
They told me when I first started out that someday as I learned to relax that my index finger would stop popping up. It never has. Finally somebody or other (Will?) told me to stop worrying about it so long as it was working. ;)
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: Can a fiddle cran?
Zina - if it's still working then don't worry about it - it's just that the quicker the phrase you have to play, the easier it becomes when fingers stay close to the string at all times. Depending on one's style, it may never become a problem.
Jim
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by Worldfiddler
Re: Can a fiddle cran?
Thanks, Zina! I actually have done searches on triplets and the like and used to print out the stuff, until I realized how much ink it was using up--now I just take notes with pen and paper....and yeah, Will is very cool--Senseii for sure; just wish he'd be around a bit more these days, but I understand....
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by Andee
Re: Can a fiddle cran?
I had the good fortune to play with a Donegal fiddler the other night and he does a snap (bowed triplet) with a cut when the piper does a cran, it fits very well.
# Posted on September 24th 2003 by Aine Ni Scully
Re: Can a fiddle cran?
It’s important to have relaxed fingers when playing but just relaxing will not teach you haw to do something fast.
What has to happen is that you must teach the unconscious mechanical learning bit of your nervous system to play the notes.
This you do by doing the movements SLOWLY and ACCURATLY many times. The accuracy is very important so play it ONLY as fast as you can do it accurately.
When your VERY secure at that speed, begin to speed it up slowly until you can get it slightly faster than you need, and practice it regularly.
Sorry for all the vehemence but I learned this the hard way on the GHB and believe me it will save you lots of extra work in the future.
TTFN
PP
# Posted on September 24th 2003 by Pied Piper