Hi there
I am a mandolin player and often banjo player/fiddlers ask me to try out my instrument which is pretty good (unlike my playing). It is something which I allow reluctantly. Do youse know of any strategies to politely/humourously deny their requests?
Like yourself, I also possess a very good mandolin which is much better than my playing...
I don't see any harm in allowing someone else to try out my instrument providing....
They appear to be good players themselves and I either know them or feel I can trust them....
They are sober......
They don't try to "show off" in front of me...
They will return the instrument thereafter...
It doesn't have to be another mandolin player although this will strengthen his or her case. Obviously, fiddle/T Banjo/even guitar players may well be equally proficient on mandolin albeit the style might be different.
It's even worse when you're a flute player and a lovely old geezer sitting next to you asks if he can have a puff on your flute. I try to avoid letting other people play my flute. Sometimes - especially if it's a legend who does the asking, or even a good friend - it's tough to say no. Generally I just say that I'm deathly afraid of getting sick, having just gotten over a chest infection. But that doesn't always scare them off.
Christy Barry just says "no," and leaves it at that.... Good man, Christy.
Politely say; sorry but if I let you have a go I'll look bad to all the others whom I've rejected. If they persist move to Mr Mcknowall's strategy.
If you do feel that you have been put in a corner, ask them to wash their hands first, remove any abrasive belt buckles, rings etc..... Eventually people will stop asking you. But it can be hard, another is to ask for a go on their instrument but there are those who don't take good care of theirs
You'll usually find that the better and more experienced players and "sessioners" will be too polite to ask or, at least, will be more discreet. Especially if they don't know you(or you them).
So, in most cases, it is probably safe enough to to refuse especially if you are tactful. You learn from experience when and where you should allow someone to "try an instrument".
Why? - what's the big problem with other musicians wanting to try out your instrument. Afraid they'll show you up? Personally, I don't object at all - listen with interest - might learn something etc.
Of course, you need to be wary when a punter wanders over and asks for a go but sín sceal eile.
When you work hard to save for an instrument or are given one by a maker, a family member, a teacher, left one in a will, it makes no difference; your duty bound to look after it regardless of standard. If someone wants to show me up their welcome, all I ask is that they do it with their own.
At home or in other congenial surroundings it's different, in a pub or other uncontrolled environment, it's to be avoided, IMO that is.
Can a pub not be "congenial surroundings" and even a "controlled environment" at times?
It all depends on the circumstances and my basic instincts usually guide me. Obviously, I'm not going to let go of my instrument when there's drunks falling about the place and knocking over tables even if I trusted the person who asked me. I'd tactfully suggest that we do it later.
Someone asked to play a venerable old instrument of mine and immediately dropped it on the floor. Now I just say no - even though it goes against my sense of politeness to do it. It is worth that momentary feeling of angst I get, in order to take care of my intruments.
hhold:
There are no rules for the situation you are describing, except perhaps the obvious: Be Polite.
There are as many ways to repond as there are are people asking to impose on your generosity. Among close friends, it is one thing. Any gradients measured downward from there, let the situation dictate -
Acquaintance: "I really do not lend out my instruments. Sorry.
Stranger: "Sorry, no can do."
Total Stranger: "What are you, nuts?"
Drunken Total Stranger: "USHER!! THIS MAN IS ANNOYING ME!!"
And so on...
Note: IMHO,Anyone who cannot take a polite "No" for an answer is likely not worth bothering with.
My answer to that question now is: "I am sorry but NO"! to fellow session players and "Do I even know you"? to strangers.
I let someone try my brand new instrument once. Not only did he try to trash the top (it has no pick guard) with aggressive strumming but attempted to lay it on the floor when he was done with it as I stepped across the circle screaming "Don't even F---king think about a-- hole" and took the instrument out his hands before it touched the floor.
If someone wants to try an instrument give a name of a local music shop and let it go at that. They'll get the message.
Mr TWH, put simply; the instrument, because when it's lying in bits on the floor the music is canceled until you get a repair or a replacement.
Having said that the instruments I do have all my pals have played. I've lent instruments to pals and people I trust for gigs etc... Mr Jon Jay puts it well above.
Mr llig your being a tad disingenuous with that statement.
If there happens to be another mandolin player in a session, the chances are, one of us will ask about the other's instrument. Then one thing leads to another and a swap, for a set or two of tunes, is inevitable.
If a non-mandolin-playing fellow sessioner asks to have a go, I am generally happy to comply - I am always interested to hear how other people play the mandolin, even if they're not very good (it makes me feel better about my own playing, but it is also interesting to hear different people's approaches to the instrument, however polished their playing may be) - and they might turn out to be a great player.
If somebody from the non-playing crowd approaches me and asks, I will do a quick character assessment. I will only say "No" outright if I think there is a real possibility that they might do damage to my instrument or the session, or if they look as if they might disappear out of the door with it.
That said, I am probably a little too permissive. I have, on occasion, passed it to someone who has proceeded to make a godawful racket, and I have not been popular with the other musicians - and once, my mandolin fell into the hands of somebody (not in a session) who, after feigning an interest in learning to play, threatened to smash it if I didn't give him 5 Euro. (Needless to say, he got his money).
Be gentle but firm: "Thanks for asking, but I'm just not comfortable handing off my baby. The pub's an unpredictable place and I'd hate for you to feel bad if something were to happen to it."
Was at session in a well known pub in belfast about a year ago..Didnt know the People playing apart from on sight and didnt know many of the choons..But they were welcoming and I started the odd set..During one of the periods I was sitting listening. One man came up and said "Can I play your Flute"...
now...I took this to mean several things. Number one the he implied " you arnt so I may as well"
Number two.. Demontrated his attitude that "I by virtue of being a famous musician can ask who I want -even if clearly do not know or have ever spoken to them or even fecking introduced myself prior to this point - to borrow their Flute.."
Number three - when I said politely as possible - No you cant.
his reply of "WHY NOT"...said it all..
I said, in disbelief.. you just cant ..and that was that. Turns out the Man was and Is a famous and gifted player. He proceeded to play the Flute of someone else he knew and I did enjoy his tunes. Having played with many people as well known and more talented that this fella however I have never encountered quite that level of arrogance..
If he was in the mind to play tunes, why not just bring his flute.Or like most people, carry a Susato whistle everywhere no matter where u are.. I didnt fork out considerable coin so strangers can entertain themselves
I think it's interesting to hear my fiddle in other player's hands. To hear what it sounds like the way other people hear my instrument. And best of all: to be congratuled with the instrument.
Henk, one problem I've run into with handing over the fiddle is that you end up with a different sort of rosin on the strings, and this interfere's with traction for a spell. But I tend to be picky about that sort of thing.....
Had an occasion once where the banjo player was sick for a couple of weeks and a friend whom we often played with, stepped in and covered for him. A few months later the friend came into the pub where we were playing and sat talking to us. Of course he was interested in the make of banjo and asked if he could try it. I was mortified when the banjo player refused in no uncertain terms. For a few minutes we thought he was joking and just messing about but he was adamant and literally told my friend to F off and get his own banjo. My friend walked away dumbfounded and it wasn't too long after that when I also walked away.........!
Mandolins are a well-stocked item in a relative handful of music stores and many makers deal directly with their customers. One of the few ways you can increase your experience and understanding of what's out there is to try other peoples instruments. You have to be willing to reciprocate, size up a dodgy situation, and (very importantly) take "no" for an answer politely.
Some people shouldn't be allowed to eat with sharp utensils let alone play other peoples instruments, but if you want to feel part of the community of players of that instrument, a standing "no" may limit your own experiences. I also like to hear my instrument being played. I would never know just how good Foley, Sobell, Trillium, Davey Stuart, and Fylde bouzoukis are if I hadn't been given the generous opportunity to play instruments that other folks owned. It really expands your world.
It's like an intimate night with a stranger...it could be transcendant, embarrasing, or have long term ugly consequences. Anyone should feel they have a right to refuse, but I don't think it's wildly unreasonable to ask. The first response shouldn't be a jab in the eye.
I do think that instruments that are played with the mouth are a different situation entirely. Eeeew!
I'm inclined to side with llig & Free Reed. Most of our regulars are quite laid back about this kind of thing.
Certainly many of us frequently play each others instruments. If I know another banjo/mandolin player was in the poub without an instrument I usually ask them if they want a shot to play a few tunes.
I am aware that some of the regulars are more concerned about what may happen, possibly have more expensive instruments, play instruments with amore intimite realtionship with one of the bodies mucuos membranes, or just worry more. That's their decison.
But if you are in the pub an dnot completely unstandupably p*ssed don't feel shy of asking for a shot of my banjo.
I love trading out my flute and whistles out to other people. I will always trade it out, and we will play each other's instruments for a few tunes. That way, I get to try out great flutes/whistles to see if I like it a lot, or not.
I think with the harp you can usually tell if someone wants to have a go, and I sometimes offer. It's great to see people try it out. I don't have the same issues flute players (for example) might have. However, when there are epidemics about (ie swine flu) perhaps it pays to be a bit more cautious...
If there's another box or banjo player, and they express an interest in the instrument, I'll usually suggest they play a few tunes on it. I actually enjoy hearing other people play my instruments. Either they're not very good and I get a pleasant feeling of superiority, or they're good, and I get to hear good tunes. I usually don't get asked by non-players, but then I generally let my instincts decide. If I'm not happy with talking them through finding their way around the instrument, I just say no. On the other hand, if they seem like a potential student, I might just give them their introductory lesson then and there.
Thank you all for your input.
Actually I am not that anal about letting someone try out my intrument especially if they are friends or if I get a good vibe from the wannabe borrower.
But there is a breed out there that feel entitled to use other people axes and them I can't stand.
Nicholas has inspired me with this strategy:
"Well listen, no, you don't know where I have been. So really it's for your own good."
With horses, if someone asks you if they can ride your good horse, it's like asking someone if they can try on your underwear...simply very bad manners...I feel the same about my fiddle and am even reluctant to play someone else's even if they ask me if I want to. However, I'd probably embarrass myself anyway, beginner that I am at Irish music....
If my teacher asked me, of course, I would hand it over in a heartbeat, but since our lessons are over the Internet, it wouldn't work so well...
I was rehearsing (yes, rehearsing) with friends just the other day. We were in the middle of a tune when the fiddler's bow suddenly snapped - just like a scene out of Monty Python. And this was a £500 bow, which she had bought just 18 months earlier. Following that incident, I shall certainly think twice about trying anyone else's bow, lest the same should happen whilst it is in my hand.
Last week at the end of the night, a fella asked if he could try my "flute." I don't play the flute, which I explained, and he pointed to the Overton whistle on the table. Now I will let people try it but I decide that on a case by case basis and your man was a case of not touching the nice whistle. I was feeling charitable, however, so I let him have a go on my Eb Generation while I packed everything else up.
I only let people try the pipes if I know they are a piper, but then again, people who don't play them never ask.
Church organists can be extremely protective of their instruments - I knew two who wouldn't let anyone use their church organs unsupervised unless they were qualified to A.R.C.O, or preferably F.R.C.O., level. But then church organs are among the most expensive music instruments you'll commonly come across, and certainly the most complex.
If I have my Mandolin ( that my brother crafted and gave to me) it gets passed around in the session amongst my learned friends, (some of whom can actually play) and even though it is beautifully airbrushed and lacquered, I feel its better that people enjoy it and make music with it, rather than be preoccupied with preserving its lustre etc. Its also great to sit opposite someone playing one of your own instruments and hear the real tone. I always imagine patinated instruments sound better anyway. An interesting side note is that if you go to the session with a Spanish Guitar, no one wants to have a go at it ,(except for Bren) which is handy if your the protective type
Swapping instruments is usually ok. Flute embouchures can be well sterilised with whisky... Lending it to a punter whom I don't know is not something I would do. Nor even allowing them to handle it. I usually even take my flute with me to the loo since the pub table is too crowded and I don't like the thought of it lying unprotected on the table.
With a bit if sensitivity, you can usually tell who is eyeing your instrument interestedly and possesses an instrument themselves in which you might be interested. From there it is a small step to enquire whether they want to try it out... Such people are usually capable of showing adequate respect to the instrument - and you've got theirs as a hostage in case they get stroppy!
A friend who plays the flute, but doesn't have their instrument with them on a particular night is always welcome to borrow mine for a few tunes.
The worst abuse my flutes have had was from a singer/songwriter at a session who came in, sat down and dumped two large and heavy A4 ring binders full of song lyrics ON TOP OF: one 2500€ wooden flute, one 2500€ Boehm flute, several posh whistles, and a mandolin. To this day, I regret not smacking him immediately, but I was just shocked that anyone could even be so insensitive and rude. Nowadays I know better, and nyone doing anything similar can expect some politically incorrect behaviour from me.
Ah, singer-songwriters, what can you expect from them, eh ? But then, they don't get ITM, and we often don't get their stuff.
Still, what does one think of someone who can't remember his own words ? ( I can't, often. )
But to get back to the original question........
........I have a guitar, a family heirloom from my wife's family, which I rebuilt at evening classes over a nine-month period.
I am incredibly wary of lending it out, except to people I already know well, there's just too much of my own work and family history in it.
Several years ago. at the end of a long chain of events, I found myself at a small conference of musicians where I was completely unknown with out any instruments, but I attended a workshop on Irish and Scottish Songs and Melodies anyway. My plan was to hum along quietly in the back, except a woman who was busy with organizing things asked me if I played guitar. I had, in the past, but hadn't recently, and she said " Use mine" and handed me a Martin guitar which was without a doubt the nicest guitar I had ever played in my entire life. It was a real work of art. i played for an hour and enjoyed myself immensely. When I returned home, I picked up my instrument and started to play everyday, and I still do. I have since traded in my old guitar for one I like a lot better, and someday I might own a guitar of that pedigree, but maybe not.
There is no moral to this story except that when you lend your instrument out, you are being very generous, and when you borrow an instrument, someone is being very generous with you. It is always hard to judge a situation quickly, and I will never fault a player who does not want to lend out their instrument, but generosity also has an important part in our community.
I started learning Mandolin in 1984. In my part of alabama / Gulf Coast / US and of A .There were hand full of old Bluegrass mando/ fiddle and the wrong kind of banjo players that I didn't even know Maybe 8 & 1/2. I always had to mail order for good instruments and still do !! Everyyyyy guitar player always wanted to try something they had never even seen. Bill Monroe, Jethro Burns who, ITM what are you talking about. Not a clue. Most of my older instruments have dents,scrapes, finger nail, or pick scratches etc, 95 % of this has been done by freinds, or even better musicians than I .But with bad attack or being careless It sucks to have nice quality instruments that in 10 mins. or less you will have a something that you will have to look at for the rest of time or worse. But It's getting easier to say no. I like what one of yall said. You can if I can have a go with your wife.!! Well, depending on what the wife looks like, teeth and all.
Lazyhound, I love the idea of a church organist in a pub seesion, regrettably having to turn down requests for a shot of his instrument : To be honest I should evan really have brought it with me.
Mandolin players are the most swappy players I find.
Most of us will offer someone a shot, as Michael suggested, even before they ask. One of the main reasons is that you can seldom hear your own mandolin properly while playing - it projects forward but not up, so it's nice to sit in front of it and hear how it sounds.
Also, if you've left it in the hands of someone who can play, it reduces of the chances of random people picking it up and trying to retune like a proper guitar/ukulele/whatever, or play Jimi Hendrix string bends after you've just got it tuned sweetly for the first time in a week
"They don't try to "show off" in front of me..." says Jon Jay
Come on Jon, you just know they're going to do that!
That's what I say when I refuse - "no bloody way! I'll never get it back if they hear you play"
rejecting tryout requests
rejecting tryout requests
Hi there
I am a mandolin player and often banjo player/fiddlers ask me to try out my instrument which is pretty good (unlike my playing). It is something which I allow reluctantly. Do youse know of any strategies to politely/humourously deny their requests?
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by hhold
Re: rejecting tryout requests
To reject all requests.
1 stare straight into their eyes
2 say f uck off, firmly and quietly
3 don't flinch
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by mcknowall
Re: rejecting tryout requests
hhold,
Like yourself, I also possess a very good mandolin which is much better than my playing...
I don't see any harm in allowing someone else to try out my instrument providing....
They appear to be good players themselves and I either know them or feel I can trust them....
They are sober......
They don't try to "show off" in front of me...
They will return the instrument thereafter...
It doesn't have to be another mandolin player although this will strengthen his or her case. Obviously, fiddle/T Banjo/even guitar players may well be equally proficient on mandolin albeit the style might be different.
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by Johnny Jay
Re: rejecting tryout requests
It's even worse when you're a flute player and a lovely old geezer sitting next to you asks if he can have a puff on your flute. I try to avoid letting other people play my flute. Sometimes - especially if it's a legend who does the asking, or even a good friend - it's tough to say no. Generally I just say that I'm deathly afraid of getting sick, having just gotten over a chest infection. But that doesn't always scare them off.
Christy Barry just says "no," and leaves it at that.... Good man, Christy.
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by David Levine
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Politely say; sorry but if I let you have a go I'll look bad to all the others whom I've rejected. If they persist move to Mr Mcknowall's strategy.
If you do feel that you have been put in a corner, ask them to wash their hands first, remove any abrasive belt buckles, rings etc..... Eventually people will stop asking you. But it can be hard, another is to ask for a go on their instrument but there are those who don't take good care of theirs
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by Solidmahog
Re: rejecting tryout requests
" You can have a go on my fiddle if I can have a go on your wife."
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by skreech
Re: rejecting tryout requests
"I wouldn't if I were you, you won't have had the injections."
(Describe tropical cesspit you dropped it into on holiday, e.g...)
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by nicholas
Re: rejecting tryout requests
You'll usually find that the better and more experienced players and "sessioners" will be too polite to ask or, at least, will be more discreet. Especially if they don't know you(or you them).
So, in most cases, it is probably safe enough to to refuse especially if you are tactful. You learn from experience when and where you should allow someone to "try an instrument".
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by Johnny Jay
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Why? - what's the big problem with other musicians wanting to try out your instrument. Afraid they'll show you up? Personally, I don't object at all - listen with interest - might learn something etc.
Of course, you need to be wary when a punter wanders over and asks for a go but sín sceal eile.
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by the wounded hussar
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Mr TWH
When you work hard to save for an instrument or are given one by a maker, a family member, a teacher, left one in a will, it makes no difference; your duty bound to look after it regardless of standard. If someone wants to show me up their welcome, all I ask is that they do it with their own.
At home or in other congenial surroundings it's different, in a pub or other uncontrolled environment, it's to be avoided, IMO that is.
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by Solidmahog
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Can a pub not be "congenial surroundings" and even a "controlled environment" at times?
It all depends on the circumstances and my basic instincts usually guide me. Obviously, I'm not going to let go of my instrument when there's drunks falling about the place and knocking over tables even if I trusted the person who asked me. I'd tactfully suggest that we do it later.
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by Johnny Jay
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Say NO and smile!
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by VOKEPASA
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Someone asked to play a venerable old instrument of mine and immediately dropped it on the floor. Now I just say no - even though it goes against my sense of politeness to do it. It is worth that momentary feeling of angst I get, in order to take care of my intruments.
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by oriley
Re: rejecting tryout requests
hhold:
There are no rules for the situation you are describing, except perhaps the obvious: Be Polite.
There are as many ways to repond as there are are people asking to impose on your generosity. Among close friends, it is one thing. Any gradients measured downward from there, let the situation dictate -
Acquaintance: "I really do not lend out my instruments. Sorry.
Stranger: "Sorry, no can do."
Total Stranger: "What are you, nuts?"
Drunken Total Stranger: "USHER!! THIS MAN IS ANNOYING ME!!"
And so on...
Note: IMHO,Anyone who cannot take a polite "No" for an answer is likely not worth bothering with.
Good luck.
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by Piece
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Well Solidmahog - which is more important : the music or the instrument??
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by the wounded hussar
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Try offereing first. Then people won't have to ask.
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by ...
Re: rejecting tryout requests
My answer to that question now is: "I am sorry but NO"! to fellow session players and "Do I even know you"? to strangers.
I let someone try my brand new instrument once. Not only did he try to trash the top (it has no pick guard) with aggressive strumming but attempted to lay it on the floor when he was done with it as I stepped across the circle screaming "Don't even F---king think about a-- hole" and took the instrument out his hands before it touched the floor.
If someone wants to try an instrument give a name of a local music shop and let it go at that. They'll get the message.
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by Cape Cod Struggler
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Mr TWH, put simply; the instrument, because when it's lying in bits on the floor the music is canceled until you get a repair or a replacement.
Having said that the instruments I do have all my pals have played. I've lent instruments to pals and people I trust for gigs etc... Mr Jon Jay puts it well above.
Mr llig your being a tad disingenuous with that statement.
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by Solidmahog
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Keep it simple. Be honest. ;)
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by Ben Steen
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Say "Yes of course. So you play in C Ab F# B tuning too?"
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by dannym
Re: rejecting tryout requests
If there happens to be another mandolin player in a session, the chances are, one of us will ask about the other's instrument. Then one thing leads to another and a swap, for a set or two of tunes, is inevitable.
, but it is also interesting to hear different people's approaches to the instrument, however polished their playing may be) - and they might turn out to be a great player.
If a non-mandolin-playing fellow sessioner asks to have a go, I am generally happy to comply - I am always interested to hear how other people play the mandolin, even if they're not very good (it makes me feel better about my own playing
If somebody from the non-playing crowd approaches me and asks, I will do a quick character assessment. I will only say "No" outright if I think there is a real possibility that they might do damage to my instrument or the session, or if they look as if they might disappear out of the door with it.
That said, I am probably a little too permissive. I have, on occasion, passed it to someone who has proceeded to make a godawful racket, and I have not been popular with the other musicians - and once, my mandolin fell into the hands of somebody (not in a session) who, after feigning an interest in learning to play, threatened to smash it if I didn't give him 5 Euro. (Needless to say, he got his money).
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Be gentle but firm: "Thanks for asking, but I'm just not comfortable handing off my baby. The pub's an unpredictable place and I'd hate for you to feel bad if something were to happen to it."
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Was at session in a well known pub in belfast about a year ago..Didnt know the People playing apart from on sight and didnt know many of the choons..But they were welcoming and I started the odd set..During one of the periods I was sitting listening. One man came up and said "Can I play your Flute"...
now...I took this to mean several things. Number one the he implied " you arnt so I may as well"
Number two.. Demontrated his attitude that "I by virtue of being a famous musician can ask who I want -even if clearly do not know or have ever spoken to them or even fecking introduced myself prior to this point - to borrow their Flute.."
Number three - when I said politely as possible - No you cant.
his reply of "WHY NOT"...said it all..
I said, in disbelief.. you just cant ..and that was that. Turns out the Man was and Is a famous and gifted player. He proceeded to play the Flute of someone else he knew and I did enjoy his tunes. Having played with many people as well known and more talented that this fella however I have never encountered quite that level of arrogance..
If he was in the mind to play tunes, why not just bring his flute.Or like most people, carry a Susato whistle everywhere no matter where u are.. I didnt fork out considerable coin so strangers can entertain themselves
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: rejecting tryout requests
I think it's interesting to hear my fiddle in other player's hands. To hear what it sounds like the way other people hear my instrument. And best of all: to be congratuled with the instrument.
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by Henk Bos
Re: rejecting tryout requests
I agree- without doubt - but theres hygeine issues with windwood instruments.
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Henk, one problem I've run into with handing over the fiddle is that you end up with a different sort of rosin on the strings, and this interfere's with traction for a spell. But I tend to be picky about that sort of thing.....
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Had an occasion once where the banjo player was sick for a couple of weeks and a friend whom we often played with, stepped in and covered for him. A few months later the friend came into the pub where we were playing and sat talking to us. Of course he was interested in the make of banjo and asked if he could try it. I was mortified when the banjo player refused in no uncertain terms. For a few minutes we thought he was joking and just messing about but he was adamant and literally told my friend to F off and get his own banjo. My friend walked away dumbfounded and it wasn't too long after that when I also walked away.........!
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by Free Reed
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Mandolins are a well-stocked item in a relative handful of music stores and many makers deal directly with their customers. One of the few ways you can increase your experience and understanding of what's out there is to try other peoples instruments. You have to be willing to reciprocate, size up a dodgy situation, and (very importantly) take "no" for an answer politely.
Some people shouldn't be allowed to eat with sharp utensils let alone play other peoples instruments, but if you want to feel part of the community of players of that instrument, a standing "no" may limit your own experiences. I also like to hear my instrument being played. I would never know just how good Foley, Sobell, Trillium, Davey Stuart, and Fylde bouzoukis are if I hadn't been given the generous opportunity to play instruments that other folks owned. It really expands your world.
It's like an intimate night with a stranger...it could be transcendant, embarrasing, or have long term ugly consequences. Anyone should feel they have a right to refuse, but I don't think it's wildly unreasonable to ask. The first response shouldn't be a jab in the eye.
I do think that instruments that are played with the mouth are a different situation entirely. Eeeew!
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by Steve L
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Will, that's easy: lend them your bow as well! Sure, it must be some one you trust and the over all situation should not be too chaotic.
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by Henk Bos
Re: rejecting tryout requests
I'm inclined to side with llig & Free Reed. Most of our regulars are quite laid back about this kind of thing.
Certainly many of us frequently play each others instruments. If I know another banjo/mandolin player was in the poub without an instrument I usually ask them if they want a shot to play a few tunes.
I am aware that some of the regulars are more concerned about what may happen, possibly have more expensive instruments, play instruments with amore intimite realtionship with one of the bodies mucuos membranes, or just worry more. That's their decison.
But if you are in the pub an dnot completely unstandupably p*ssed don't feel shy of asking for a shot of my banjo.
- chris
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Henk, yep, with friends that's usually what I do.
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: rejecting tryout requests
I love trading out my flute and whistles out to other people. I will always trade it out, and we will play each other's instruments for a few tunes. That way, I get to try out great flutes/whistles to see if I like it a lot, or not.
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by pipersgrip
Re: rejecting tryout requests
I think with the harp you can usually tell if someone wants to have a go, and I sometimes offer. It's great to see people try it out. I don't have the same issues flute players (for example) might have. However, when there are epidemics about (ie swine flu) perhaps it pays to be a bit more cautious...
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by Mark Harmer
Re: rejecting tryout requests
hhold: are you totally sure it's not just so they can give it a quick tune-up before they hand it back?
# Posted on May 23rd 2009 by RichardB
Re: rejecting tryout requests
If there's another box or banjo player, and they express an interest in the instrument, I'll usually suggest they play a few tunes on it. I actually enjoy hearing other people play my instruments. Either they're not very good and I get a pleasant feeling of superiority, or they're good, and I get to hear good tunes. I usually don't get asked by non-players, but then I generally let my instincts decide. If I'm not happy with talking them through finding their way around the instrument, I just say no. On the other hand, if they seem like a potential student, I might just give them their introductory lesson then and there.
# Posted on May 24th 2009 by Jon Kiparsky
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Thank you all for your input.
Actually I am not that anal about letting someone try out my intrument especially if they are friends or if I get a good vibe from the wannabe borrower.
But there is a breed out there that feel entitled to use other people axes and them I can't stand.
Nicholas has inspired me with this strategy:
"Well listen, no, you don't know where I have been. So really it's for your own good."
# Posted on May 24th 2009 by hhold
Re: rejecting tryout requests
With horses, if someone asks you if they can ride your good horse, it's like asking someone if they can try on your underwear...simply very bad manners...I feel the same about my fiddle and am even reluctant to play someone else's even if they ask me if I want to. However, I'd probably embarrass myself anyway, beginner that I am at Irish music....
If my teacher asked me, of course, I would hand it over in a heartbeat, but since our lessons are over the Internet, it wouldn't work so well...
# Posted on May 24th 2009 by swillybay
Re: rejecting tryout requests
I was rehearsing (yes, rehearsing) with friends just the other day. We were in the middle of a tune when the fiddler's bow suddenly snapped - just like a scene out of Monty Python. And this was a £500 bow, which she had bought just 18 months earlier. Following that incident, I shall certainly think twice about trying anyone else's bow, lest the same should happen whilst it is in my hand.
# Posted on May 24th 2009 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Last week at the end of the night, a fella asked if he could try my "flute." I don't play the flute, which I explained, and he pointed to the Overton whistle on the table. Now I will let people try it but I decide that on a case by case basis and your man was a case of not touching the nice whistle. I was feeling charitable, however, so I let him have a go on my Eb Generation while I packed everything else up.
I only let people try the pipes if I know they are a piper, but then again, people who don't play them never ask.
# Posted on May 24th 2009 by DrSilverSpear
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Maybe you should play an instrument which nobody else likes to play.
# Posted on May 24th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Church organists can be extremely protective of their instruments - I knew two who wouldn't let anyone use their church organs unsupervised unless they were qualified to A.R.C.O, or preferably F.R.C.O., level. But then church organs are among the most expensive music instruments you'll commonly come across, and certainly the most complex.
# Posted on May 25th 2009 by Trevor Jennings
Re: rejecting tryout requests
If I have my Mandolin ( that my brother crafted and gave to me) it gets passed around in the session amongst my learned friends, (some of whom can actually play) and even though it is beautifully airbrushed and lacquered, I feel its better that people enjoy it and make music with it, rather than be preoccupied with preserving its lustre etc. Its also great to sit opposite someone playing one of your own instruments and hear the real tone. I always imagine patinated instruments sound better anyway. An interesting side note is that if you go to the session with a Spanish Guitar, no one wants to have a go at it ,(except for Bren) which is handy if your the protective type
# Posted on May 25th 2009 by chuneboi slim
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Swapping instruments is usually ok. Flute embouchures can be well sterilised with whisky... Lending it to a punter whom I don't know is not something I would do. Nor even allowing them to handle it. I usually even take my flute with me to the loo since the pub table is too crowded and I don't like the thought of it lying unprotected on the table.
With a bit if sensitivity, you can usually tell who is eyeing your instrument interestedly and possesses an instrument themselves in which you might be interested. From there it is a small step to enquire whether they want to try it out... Such people are usually capable of showing adequate respect to the instrument - and you've got theirs as a hostage in case they get stroppy!
A friend who plays the flute, but doesn't have their instrument with them on a particular night is always welcome to borrow mine for a few tunes.
The worst abuse my flutes have had was from a singer/songwriter at a session who came in, sat down and dumped two large and heavy A4 ring binders full of song lyrics ON TOP OF: one 2500€ wooden flute, one 2500€ Boehm flute, several posh whistles, and a mandolin. To this day, I regret not smacking him immediately, but I was just shocked that anyone could even be so insensitive and rude. Nowadays I know better, and nyone doing anything similar can expect some politically incorrect behaviour from me.
Chris.
# Posted on May 25th 2009 by Crackpot
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Ah, singer-songwriters, what can you expect from them, eh ? But then, they don't get ITM, and we often don't get their stuff.
Still, what does one think of someone who can't remember his own words ? ( I can't, often. )
# Posted on May 25th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: rejecting tryout requests
But to get back to the original question........
........I have a guitar, a family heirloom from my wife's family, which I rebuilt at evening classes over a nine-month period.
I am incredibly wary of lending it out, except to people I already know well, there's just too much of my own work and family history in it.
# Posted on May 25th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Several years ago. at the end of a long chain of events, I found myself at a small conference of musicians where I was completely unknown with out any instruments, but I attended a workshop on Irish and Scottish Songs and Melodies anyway. My plan was to hum along quietly in the back, except a woman who was busy with organizing things asked me if I played guitar. I had, in the past, but hadn't recently, and she said " Use mine" and handed me a Martin guitar which was without a doubt the nicest guitar I had ever played in my entire life. It was a real work of art. i played for an hour and enjoyed myself immensely. When I returned home, I picked up my instrument and started to play everyday, and I still do. I have since traded in my old guitar for one I like a lot better, and someday I might own a guitar of that pedigree, but maybe not.
There is no moral to this story except that when you lend your instrument out, you are being very generous, and when you borrow an instrument, someone is being very generous with you. It is always hard to judge a situation quickly, and I will never fault a player who does not want to lend out their instrument, but generosity also has an important part in our community.
# Posted on May 25th 2009 by toumi
Re: rejecting tryout requests
I started learning Mandolin in 1984. In my part of alabama / Gulf Coast / US and of A .There were hand full of old Bluegrass mando/ fiddle and the wrong kind of banjo players that I didn't even know Maybe 8 & 1/2. I always had to mail order for good instruments and still do !! Everyyyyy guitar player always wanted to try something they had never even seen. Bill Monroe, Jethro Burns who, ITM what are you talking about. Not a clue. Most of my older instruments have dents,scrapes, finger nail, or pick scratches etc, 95 % of this has been done by freinds, or even better musicians than I .But with bad attack or being careless It sucks to have nice quality instruments that in 10 mins. or less you will have a something that you will have to look at for the rest of time or worse. But It's getting easier to say no. I like what one of yall said. You can if I can have a go with your wife.!! Well, depending on what the wife looks like, teeth and all.
# Posted on May 26th 2009 by Hollis Sellew
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Lazyhound, I love the idea of a church organist in a pub seesion, regrettably having to turn down requests for a shot of his instrument : To be honest I should evan really have brought it with me.
# Posted on May 26th 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Mandolin players are the most swappy players I find.
Most of us will offer someone a shot, as Michael suggested, even before they ask. One of the main reasons is that you can seldom hear your own mandolin properly while playing - it projects forward but not up, so it's nice to sit in front of it and hear how it sounds.
Also, if you've left it in the hands of someone who can play, it reduces of the chances of random people picking it up and trying to retune like a proper guitar/ukulele/whatever, or play Jimi Hendrix string bends after you've just got it tuned sweetly for the first time in a week
"They don't try to "show off" in front of me..." says Jon Jay
Come on Jon, you just know they're going to do that!
That's what I say when I refuse - "no bloody way! I'll never get it back if they hear you play"
# Posted on May 26th 2009 by Bren
Re: rejecting tryout requests
There's a difference between playing well and "showing off" surely?
The two activities don't necessarily go hand in hand.
# Posted on May 27th 2009 by Johnny Jay
Re: rejecting tryout requests
Interesting similar topic from another discussion forum, at almost the same time:
www.acousticguitar.com/ubbcgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=23&t=000153&p=3#000032
# Posted on May 31st 2009 by ceciltguitar