Er!....perhaps I had better rephrase that. I am interested in compiling some statistics for the weight of certain instruments and in the case of bowed instruments, the weight of their accompanying wooden scraping mechanism.
If you feel so inclined, could you pop your instrument!! (musical that is), on the kitchen scales and record its weight in grams (you too in the US of A!, although ounces would still be acceptable). Could you give a best estimate of its age, its maker, its type, its size (4/4 etc). Also with bowed instruments, could you do the same with your bow. Weights without extraneous hardware (pick-ups etc) would be most desirable.
(Heh, understand that those of us Stateside are wondering if you work for Homeland Security and you're compiling our dosiers under the Patriot Act...how will the weight of my fiddle be used against me.....
To get back to the proper subject of this thread , in order to get a true weight of the fiddle the chinrest (and of course the shoulder rest!) should be removed before weighing. Perhaps the material of the tail-piece should be mentioned as well - a wooden tailpiece is lighter than a metal one, and also whether fine adjusters are being used (they may have a significant effect on the overall weight if we're measuring accurate to a few grammes).
Trevor
For reasons...please read thread 'Re: "playing in" instruments: a scientific approach?' , reply number 10.
Yes!, certainly weights without shoulder rests would be desirable but I don't want to put anyone to the trouble of removing the chinrest or tailpiece. However, as you suggest, a note describing the type of tailpiece and the number of fine adjusters would help.
Each fiddle has 1 micro adjuster only (on the E), the tail-pieces are wood. The weight was measured without the chin-rests, which in any case are minimal and weigh about 10 gms each (I don't always use a chin-rest, and never a shoulder-rest).
The A, D, G strings on each are metal-wound synthetic cored (Obligato on the German, and Zyex on the Jay Haide). The E is plain.
1. German fiddle (maker unknown), about 200 years old (been in family for 150 years). Refurbished 3 years ago.
Weight 385 gm
Length of back 360 mm
Width of upper bout 170 mm
Width of lower bout 210 mm
Thickness at edge of lower bout 40 mm
2. Jay Haide fiddle, dated 2002, bought new 5 months ago.
Weight 450 gm
Length of back 354 mm
Width of upper bout 167 mm
Width of lower bout 205 mm
Thickness at edge of lower bout 38 mm
3. 1st bow (my best), at least 80 years old and in excellent condition (recently re-furbished and re-haired)
Length 730 mm from tip to frog end of stick but not including the tension adjuster nut at the frog
4. 2nd bow, modern German (3 years old)
Length 725 mm
5. 3rd bow, inexpensive carbon fibre, bought as a cheapo spare but fine for general session playing.
Length 727 mm
My kitchen scales are sensitive to only about 5 gms, so could not distinguish between the weights of the bows, which I believe are all in the 60-61(ish) gm range. The weights of the fiddles are therefore also measured to the nearest 5 gms.
French Deblaye 1923 448gms Rosewood Chinrest & Tailpiece + 1 adj
English Percy Lee 1930 468gms Plastic Chinrest & Ebony Tailpiece + 1 adj
French Couesnon ca1910 478gms Ebony Chinrest & Tailpiece + 1 adj
French Blondelet 1922 495gms Rosewood Chinrest & Ebony Tailpiece + 1 adj
Fiddle Bows
Bazin school bow 51gms
Lepin bow 65gms
I have rated the fiddles in order of tonal attractiveness (subjectively, of course) and interestingly they fall into the order of lowest to highest weight. The Deblaye gives that real old Italian mellow sound, however the 'Percy Lee' is bright, even and responsive, with very good projection. The Couesnon falls halfway in between...mellowish, even and quite reponsive.
Ed, I'd agree with you about the weight factor.
My old German fiddle is very light; it is very resonant, and responsive, with a fine tone, which is only now returning to its full power - the instrument remained unplayed for over 60 years until 3 years ago, when it needed a lot of attention. A comparison with the Jay Haide (not more than a year old) is difficult because the JH is still in the playing-in stage, and will be for a few years; but after 5 months the tone is developing well, and it has a good resonance and response. These two latter factors were among the ones which attracted me to it in the first place when I was looking around for a second instrument. At present, Zyex strings seem to suit the JH best, but I have no doubt that as the instrument matures my choice of string will change.
BTW, the stop for both instruments (as defined by David A in "calling all fiddle players") is 192 mm.
Sorry Treabhar, not a viola! My kit's 16 inches wide and 4 inches long. Or you could say it's 9 inches long and about 1/4 inch wide. Or I could say to someone who asks "How big is your kit????" - "Just two pieces".
How big is your kit????
How big is your kit????
Er!....perhaps I had better rephrase that. I am interested in compiling some statistics for the weight of certain instruments and in the case of bowed instruments, the weight of their accompanying wooden scraping mechanism.
If you feel so inclined, could you pop your instrument!! (musical that is), on the kitchen scales and record its weight in grams (you too in the US of A!, although ounces would still be acceptable). Could you give a best estimate of its age, its maker, its type, its size (4/4 etc). Also with bowed instruments, could you do the same with your bow. Weights without extraneous hardware (pick-ups etc) would be most desirable.
Thanks, Ed.
# Posted on September 20th 2003 by scraper
Re: How big is your kit????
Not to be surly or anything, but *why* do you want such data?
# Posted on September 20th 2003 by Miss Lonelyhearts
(Heh, understand that those of us Stateside are wondering if you work for Homeland Security and you're compiling our dosiers under the Patriot Act...how will the weight of my fiddle be used against me.....
# Posted on September 20th 2003 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: How big is your kit????
You *knew* you shoulda put it on that diet eight months ago...
# Posted on September 20th 2003 by Zina Lee
Re: How big is your kit????
It's the middleage spread Zina, he needs to work off that waist!
# Posted on September 20th 2003 by Dow
Re: How big is your kit????
To get back to the proper subject of this thread
, in order to get a true weight of the fiddle the chinrest (and of course the shoulder rest!) should be removed before weighing. Perhaps the material of the tail-piece should be mentioned as well - a wooden tailpiece is lighter than a metal one, and also whether fine adjusters are being used (they may have a significant effect on the overall weight if we're measuring accurate to a few grammes).
Trevor
# Posted on September 20th 2003 by lazyhound
Re: How big is your kit????
For reasons...please read thread 'Re: "playing in" instruments: a scientific approach?' , reply number 10.
Yes!, certainly weights without shoulder rests would be desirable but I don't want to put anyone to the trouble of removing the chinrest or tailpiece. However, as you suggest, a note describing the type of tailpiece and the number of fine adjusters would help.
# Posted on September 21st 2003 by scraper
Re: How big is your kit????
Ed, I have,
Two fiddles (both 4/4) + 3 bows
Each fiddle has 1 micro adjuster only (on the E), the tail-pieces are wood. The weight was measured without the chin-rests, which in any case are minimal and weigh about 10 gms each (I don't always use a chin-rest, and never a shoulder-rest).
The A, D, G strings on each are metal-wound synthetic cored (Obligato on the German, and Zyex on the Jay Haide). The E is plain.
1. German fiddle (maker unknown), about 200 years old (been in family for 150 years). Refurbished 3 years ago.
Weight 385 gm
Length of back 360 mm
Width of upper bout 170 mm
Width of lower bout 210 mm
Thickness at edge of lower bout 40 mm
2. Jay Haide fiddle, dated 2002, bought new 5 months ago.
Weight 450 gm
Length of back 354 mm
Width of upper bout 167 mm
Width of lower bout 205 mm
Thickness at edge of lower bout 38 mm
3. 1st bow (my best), at least 80 years old and in excellent condition (recently re-furbished and re-haired)
Length 730 mm from tip to frog end of stick but not including the tension adjuster nut at the frog
4. 2nd bow, modern German (3 years old)
Length 725 mm
5. 3rd bow, inexpensive carbon fibre, bought as a cheapo spare but fine for general session playing.
Length 727 mm
My kitchen scales are sensitive to only about 5 gms, so could not distinguish between the weights of the bows, which I believe are all in the 60-61(ish) gm range. The weights of the fiddles are therefore also measured to the nearest 5 gms.
Hope this helps your research.
Trevor
# Posted on September 21st 2003 by lazyhound
Re: How big is your kit????
Trevor thanks for those details:
Here are some for the kit that I have access too.
Fiddles
French Deblaye 1923 448gms Rosewood Chinrest & Tailpiece + 1 adj
English Percy Lee 1930 468gms Plastic Chinrest & Ebony Tailpiece + 1 adj
French Couesnon ca1910 478gms Ebony Chinrest & Tailpiece + 1 adj
French Blondelet 1922 495gms Rosewood Chinrest & Ebony Tailpiece + 1 adj
Fiddle Bows
Bazin school bow 51gms
Lepin bow 65gms
I have rated the fiddles in order of tonal attractiveness (subjectively, of course) and interestingly they fall into the order of lowest to highest weight. The Deblaye gives that real old Italian mellow sound, however the 'Percy Lee' is bright, even and responsive, with very good projection. The Couesnon falls halfway in between...mellowish, even and quite reponsive.
Ed.
# Posted on September 21st 2003 by scraper
P.S.
I should have added that they are all 4/4 fiddles.
# Posted on September 21st 2003 by scraper
Re: How big is your kit????
Ed, I'd agree with you about the weight factor.
My old German fiddle is very light; it is very resonant, and responsive, with a fine tone, which is only now returning to its full power - the instrument remained unplayed for over 60 years until 3 years ago, when it needed a lot of attention. A comparison with the Jay Haide (not more than a year old) is difficult because the JH is still in the playing-in stage, and will be for a few years; but after 5 months the tone is developing well, and it has a good resonance and response. These two latter factors were among the ones which attracted me to it in the first place when I was looking around for a second instrument. At present, Zyex strings seem to suit the JH best, but I have no doubt that as the instrument matures my choice of string will change.
BTW, the stop for both instruments (as defined by David A in "calling all fiddle players") is 192 mm.
Trevor
# Posted on September 21st 2003 by lazyhound
Re: How big is your kit????
Mine's 16 inches.
# Posted on September 21st 2003 by greenman
Re: How big is your kit????
16 inches greenman? must be an average size viola then
Trevor
# Posted on September 21st 2003 by lazyhound
Re: How big is your kit????
very heavy
# Posted on September 21st 2003 by needaliver
Re: How big is your kit????
27mm.
You did say "pick"?
# Posted on September 22nd 2003 by OrganicPeatCreature
Re: How big is your kit????
Sorry Treabhar, not a viola! My kit's 16 inches wide and 4 inches long. Or you could say it's 9 inches long and about 1/4 inch wide. Or I could say to someone who asks "How big is your kit????" - "Just two pieces".
# Posted on September 23rd 2003 by greenman