I am looking for a mandolin (new) for ITM, but also for a Zeppelin tribute band I am in (play bass); I do not yet play mandolin, but am starting lessons soon.
I am looking at buying a medium quality mando but am torn between flat tops or arched. I am pretty sure it will be an "A" style with oval soundhole, and was pretty set on Big Muddys but my question is, are archtops generally louder? If I got a Weber archtop A, would it be louder than the Weber flat top (aspen 2, for example)? It being hard to find oval hole mandos in music stores (seems the "f" soundholes win hands down for the bluegrassers) I could use some advise before plunking down a grand or so on an instrument before hearing it.
This really bothers me because if I spend this much on an instrument I usually prefer to play it first. I have tried Kentuckys and Eastmans, and f-hole Webers at my local store and was really impressed with the Weber, and slightly less the Eastman. Guess you get what you pay for in the mandolin world. Would like to try Big Muddy but seems they're a rare find in local music stores here in Chicago. Must say, the Big Muddy seems like a steal for a US made solid wood mando, but how do they stack up to an "a" style Weber?
Also, it it really worth it to invest in a pickup, or can I just play in front of a mic for nightclub performances? Do bridge pickups damage the body of the mandolin? Would rather not do that, if I am spending this much.
I know, lots of questions. Any input would help.
I bought a Martin Kelley Limited Edition "Dragonfly" f hole and am very impressed, cost me about 700$ and was a year old. I have used it with a small bug pickup which is not bad and they do make 'em with a built in pickup too I believe. Has a great tone and iis beautifully made. I would recommend it anyway.
-In my limited experience an A model with oval sound hole may not have the volume you'll want for loud band work but will be fine for ITM. Oval-hole A models
can sure be sweet, however. -Amplified would be another story of course.
I've 2 mandolins one a US made solid top kentucky flat top (flatiron style) and a solid wood archtop A style made in China Ozark.
The Kentucky sounds great but is hard to play for long periods and I started to get concerned at the prospect of permanent injury (after 10 years) so started looking for another.
Archtop IMO is the way to go but would I get on with the high floating bridge? Also what make or type? Over the course of around 2 - 3 years I tried everyone I came across and settled on an A type. Cost, not cheep. Then a pal tipped me off to the Ozark and the fact that the odd one could be quite good so I started trying them out. There is a shop in edinburgh which has a big turn over of these cheap mandolins so every time I went to town I'd try them all. After about another year or so I found one which just leapt out so I got it. £200 with case. Not the best instrument but good enough to be getting on with retraining my right hand and way better than anything else without committing lots of £€.
Here's a link to the model I've settled on checking out, having finally decided that this type of body shape etc is for me (after 2 years with the china jobbie);
I've very little bandwidth at the moment so the above link wouldn't open for me but if you have trouble it's the Capek A basic round hole. I tried one of these a year or so ago and was really impressed so I've resolved to go and try next time I'm in the South.
I think the try before you buy dose not really tell you that much unless your experienced or are able to spend a bit of time with each instrument and thats just not possible with retail sales. When I go off to look I now know exactly what I'm looking for. If thats not available well there's always next time.
I think the general thought is that the f-holes are louder than the ovals, but the ovals have a sweeter sound. individual instruments vary. The mando cafe people who post in their classifieds are usually very good about letting you try an instrument for a few days, although if you decide not to buy, you have to pay shipping back.
For the other part of your question, I have a bridge pickup that seems to work very well. It's a Fischman, and i had it installed professionally, meaning they also made sure the bridge was properly fitted. (this is on my kentucky; i worried about messing about with my stradolin, since that's about 80 years old) You'll find proper setup becomes an issue with mandolins you buy on line or sight unseen. A proper setup can make a major difference in the sound of the instrument (as will the pick, but that's a whole other conversation). I went with a bridge pickup to keep damage to the instrument to a minimum -- no holes drilled, no glue or sticky stuff to keep it on. I road-tested a couple acoustic/electrics, and they sounded like electric guitars when plugged up and horrible as acoustics. But that's just me.
Arched = louder.
Built in pickup is great. Much better than trying to play to the mic. When I'm performing, I have other things I'd rather think about.
Do you care if it is louder if it has a built in mic? http://www.mandolincafe.com has great information.
I owned a weber at one point. Bitterroot f5. Great instrument. I also had a flat topped Tacoma. I play an A style now with an internal mic and I'm very happy.
I have a trick for reading music that works for mandolin if that would be of use. I used to play bass too and the switch was awkward for reading notation until I was shown a notation reading shortcut for instruments tuned in 5ths. It takes a bit to explain, so send me an email if you are interested. A short hint is that if a line of the staff goes through the note, it is first or third finger. Otherwise it is open or second finger.
Before I get flamed, I should mention that learning by ear is great and that I love memorizing tunes. In addition, a session is not a performance and should not be confused as such.
F hole over round (& oval) I'm not sure that one is louder than the other, the richer tone of the holed instruments tends to get muddied with the rest of the instruments in a large ensemble of musicians. I've been quite impressed with the more clipped tone of the F hole style in similar situations. To say it's louder isn't really true it just cuts through and can still be heard (maybe because it's occupying a more narrow frequency band??) Freddie Green's big band jazz guitar playing style (also f holed archtop) used what jazzers call 10th chords, (actually chords never extended beyond a 7th that contain a wide octave 2nd interval and played one chord per beat , this was popular because it allowed more possibilities for the melody to improvise on top, also the 5th A string is muted on 6th string root chords because this clashed with the bass) What's you point caller? I hear you say, well playing without an amp, in the thick of a big band Freddie's guitar was still audible (although he apparently used fence wire for strings).
Although as mentioned in my post above I'm going to try the mandolin in the link, I'll be trying every other mandolin in the shop also.
Forgot to say that I'm interested in the round/oval holed jobbie because of the richer tone (and the fact that I'm not planning joining a big jazz band anytime soon). I've heard some fine sounding f holes though, so maybe I'll just have to keep my options open (assuming I don't get crunched: ()
I don't know if it'd be helpful or not, but if you would like to listen to a whole bunch of different Mandolins being played, by a variety of different musicians, you might like to follow this link to Aidan Crossey's very interesting Mandolin MP3 page.
I own a Weber Absaroka A (f-holes). Something to consider is what type of wood the top is. Mine's cedar, and it has a very warm, rich sound, not as bright as most spruce tops I've heard. It's also plenty loud for sessions.
Looking for a crossover mandolin
Looking for a crossover mandolin
I am looking for a mandolin (new) for ITM, but also for a Zeppelin tribute band I am in (play bass); I do not yet play mandolin, but am starting lessons soon.
I am looking at buying a medium quality mando but am torn between flat tops or arched. I am pretty sure it will be an "A" style with oval soundhole, and was pretty set on Big Muddys but my question is, are archtops generally louder? If I got a Weber archtop A, would it be louder than the Weber flat top (aspen 2, for example)? It being hard to find oval hole mandos in music stores (seems the "f" soundholes win hands down for the bluegrassers) I could use some advise before plunking down a grand or so on an instrument before hearing it.
This really bothers me because if I spend this much on an instrument I usually prefer to play it first. I have tried Kentuckys and Eastmans, and f-hole Webers at my local store and was really impressed with the Weber, and slightly less the Eastman. Guess you get what you pay for in the mandolin world. Would like to try Big Muddy but seems they're a rare find in local music stores here in Chicago. Must say, the Big Muddy seems like a steal for a US made solid wood mando, but how do they stack up to an "a" style Weber?
Also, it it really worth it to invest in a pickup, or can I just play in front of a mic for nightclub performances? Do bridge pickups damage the body of the mandolin? Would rather not do that, if I am spending this much.
I know, lots of questions. Any input would help.
# Posted on April 27th 2009 by ralphus
Re: Looking for a crossover mandolin
I bought a Martin Kelley Limited Edition "Dragonfly" f hole and am very impressed, cost me about 700$ and was a year old. I have used it with a small bug pickup which is not bad and they do make 'em with a built in pickup too I believe. Has a great tone and iis beautifully made. I would recommend it anyway.
Here's the one I have :
http://www.michaelkellyguitars.com/legacy_dragonfly_flame.html
# Posted on April 27th 2009 by tctelboy
Re: Looking for a crossover mandolin
-In my limited experience an A model with oval sound hole may not have the volume you'll want for loud band work but will be fine for ITM. Oval-hole A models
can sure be sweet, however. -Amplified would be another story of course.
# Posted on April 27th 2009 by pubpersona
Re: Looking for a crossover mandolin
I've 2 mandolins one a US made solid top kentucky flat top (flatiron style) and a solid wood archtop A style made in China Ozark.
The Kentucky sounds great but is hard to play for long periods and I started to get concerned at the prospect of permanent injury (after 10 years) so started looking for another.
Archtop IMO is the way to go but would I get on with the high floating bridge? Also what make or type? Over the course of around 2 - 3 years I tried everyone I came across and settled on an A type. Cost, not cheep. Then a pal tipped me off to the Ozark and the fact that the odd one could be quite good so I started trying them out. There is a shop in edinburgh which has a big turn over of these cheap mandolins so every time I went to town I'd try them all. After about another year or so I found one which just leapt out so I got it. £200 with case. Not the best instrument but good enough to be getting on with retraining my right hand and way better than anything else without committing lots of £€.
Here's a link to the model I've settled on checking out, having finally decided that this type of body shape etc is for me (after 2 years with the china jobbie);
http://www.theacousticmusicco.co.uk/erol.html
I've very little bandwidth at the moment so the above link wouldn't open for me but if you have trouble it's the Capek A basic round hole. I tried one of these a year or so ago and was really impressed so I've resolved to go and try next time I'm in the South.
I think the try before you buy dose not really tell you that much unless your experienced or are able to spend a bit of time with each instrument and thats just not possible with retail sales. When I go off to look I now know exactly what I'm looking for. If thats not available well there's always next time.
# Posted on April 27th 2009 by Solidmahog
Re: Looking for a crossover mandolin
Ralphus,
http://www.mandolincafe.com
I've liked the Big Muddys I've played. Great deal on an inexpensive instrument. Nice sound.
From the website, here are Chicagoland dealers:
Illinois
Hog Eye
1920 Central St.
Evanston IL 60201
847-475-0260
Different Strummer
4544 North Lincoln
Chicago IL 60625
773-751-3398 ext 3310
or a dealer real close to them (near the St. Louis Tionol school site, and a fun store to shop)
Music Folk
8015 Big Bend Blvd.
Webster Groves MO 63119
314-961-2838
# Posted on April 27th 2009 by reenactor
Re: Looking for a crossover mandolin
I think the general thought is that the f-holes are louder than the ovals, but the ovals have a sweeter sound. individual instruments vary. The mando cafe people who post in their classifieds are usually very good about letting you try an instrument for a few days, although if you decide not to buy, you have to pay shipping back.
For the other part of your question, I have a bridge pickup that seems to work very well. It's a Fischman, and i had it installed professionally, meaning they also made sure the bridge was properly fitted. (this is on my kentucky; i worried about messing about with my stradolin, since that's about 80 years old) You'll find proper setup becomes an issue with mandolins you buy on line or sight unseen. A proper setup can make a major difference in the sound of the instrument (as will the pick, but that's a whole other conversation). I went with a bridge pickup to keep damage to the instrument to a minimum -- no holes drilled, no glue or sticky stuff to keep it on. I road-tested a couple acoustic/electrics, and they sounded like electric guitars when plugged up and horrible as acoustics. But that's just me.
# Posted on April 27th 2009 by Mandogal
Re: Looking for a crossover mandolin
Arched = louder.
Built in pickup is great. Much better than trying to play to the mic. When I'm performing, I have other things I'd rather think about.
Do you care if it is louder if it has a built in mic?
http://www.mandolincafe.com has great information.
I owned a weber at one point. Bitterroot f5. Great instrument. I also had a flat topped Tacoma. I play an A style now with an internal mic and I'm very happy.
I have a trick for reading music that works for mandolin if that would be of use. I used to play bass too and the switch was awkward for reading notation until I was shown a notation reading shortcut for instruments tuned in 5ths. It takes a bit to explain, so send me an email if you are interested. A short hint is that if a line of the staff goes through the note, it is first or third finger. Otherwise it is open or second finger.
Before I get flamed, I should mention that learning by ear is great and that I love memorizing tunes. In addition, a session is not a performance and should not be confused as such.
# Posted on April 27th 2009 by abuteague
Re: Looking for a crossover mandolin
F hole over round (& oval) I'm not sure that one is louder than the other, the richer tone of the holed instruments tends to get muddied with the rest of the instruments in a large ensemble of musicians. I've been quite impressed with the more clipped tone of the F hole style in similar situations. To say it's louder isn't really true it just cuts through and can still be heard (maybe because it's occupying a more narrow frequency band??) Freddie Green's big band jazz guitar playing style (also f holed archtop) used what jazzers call 10th chords, (actually chords never extended beyond a 7th that contain a wide octave 2nd interval and played one chord per beat , this was popular because it allowed more possibilities for the melody to improvise on top, also the 5th A string is muted on 6th string root chords because this clashed with the bass) What's you point caller? I hear you say, well playing without an amp, in the thick of a big band Freddie's guitar was still audible (although he apparently used fence wire for strings).
Although as mentioned in my post above I'm going to try the mandolin in the link, I'll be trying every other mandolin in the shop also.
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by Solidmahog
Re: Looking for a crossover mandolin
Forgot to say that I'm interested in the round/oval holed jobbie because of the richer tone (and the fact that I'm not planning joining a big jazz band anytime soon). I've heard some fine sounding f holes though, so maybe I'll just have to keep my options open (assuming I don't get crunched: ()
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by Solidmahog
Re: Looking for a crossover mandolin
Ralphus,
I don't know if it'd be helpful or not, but if you would like to listen to a whole bunch of different Mandolins being played, by a variety of different musicians, you might like to follow this link to Aidan Crossey's very interesting Mandolin MP3 page.
http://www.paythereckoning.com/index2.htm
Cheers
Dick
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by Ptarmigan
Re: Looking for a crossover mandolin
I own a Weber Absaroka A (f-holes). Something to consider is what type of wood the top is. Mine's cedar, and it has a very warm, rich sound, not as bright as most spruce tops I've heard. It's also plenty loud for sessions.
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: Looking for a crossover mandolin
Thanks for all the input.
# Posted on May 2nd 2009 by ralphus