I've had a bee in my bonnet for some time, and at last I'm going for it ,TO MAKE MY OWN FIDDLE!. Have any sessioneers ever suceeded in doing this? I know there are loads of Luthiers suppliers out there, but does anyone know of a site where there is a step by step guide, or a comprehensive list of tools? By the way Jeremy, this site is my number 1 place to visit each time I surf, Thanks for all your hard work.
Frank
This is something that I've been working towards for quite some time. There's a lot of books that are very helpful, easy enough to find out there on the Web. But I thought that what I'd start with is taking white violins and finishing them first. You can find them out on auction at E-bay and such (and find a lot of suppliers at the same time!). The tools can be very expensive, so I thought I'd try it in stages.
Have you ever seen any of the tin fiddles that the tinsmiths used to make in Ireland? And the old cigar box fiddles? Pretty fascinating stuff...
I hadn't thought about a white fiddle, you see I figured if I was going to go to the bother of doing this thing I wanted to be able to brag to my friends that I'd done it All myself! But now youv'e given me a nasty idea Zina.
Check out a book titled, "Violin Making as it is and was", written by Ed Herron-Allan. It was written about 125 years ago, and contains patterns and detailed instructions for building a Strad model violin, and a Guarnerius model. It is one of the few books which details the use of the 'outside mold' (the fiddle sides are curved to fit inside the mold, with the mold on the outside!) which is the preference of many of todays advanced makers.
Also, your local library probably contains several books, with patterns.
Thanks to everybody for your suggestions. I haven't suceeded in finding any "white fiddle " supplier yet, but I'll persevere 'til I do. I'm sure there are lots of fiddle factories in China, as all the lower priced models come from there. For the moment I need to get my Craic recording wrapped up and then I'll start carving.
Oh, try http://www.DoReMiBuys.com/...Kelly is very nice and easy to deal with. There's pretty good deals on the white fiddles at E-bay. Just stick to your price and don't re-bid if you get outbid, because sooner or later you'll find an auction to get the cheaper price.
I started with white fiddles because I can't afford to buy ALL the tools all at once. This way I got some of the finishing tools, and will get some of the other wood carving tools later when I try my hand at the whole schmeer...
Possibly a bit off track, but I have recently finished 2 electric fiddles. The original plan was to also make an electric viola and cello to enable a string quartet to perform with them. They are both made from birds eye maple, the whole violin being made in one piece. I used the ashworth bridge style pickup and it is fabulous. I used guitar mini machine heads which look great but was not the best idea i've had as they make the head fairly heavy when you've been playing for a while. They are both finished in metalic car spray. Not as difficult as an acoustic but it is a delicate job. Never again!!!
I read a Web page once by someone describing how he made a hexagon-shaped violin, but so far i wasn't able to find it again. If i find it i'll let you know.
Frank, constructing a fiddle is a major undertaking, but I firmly believe it is in the reach of anyone. "Making Stringed Instruments: A Workshop Guide" by George Buchanan is by far and away the best instruction manual for my money. I don't believe there are any websites which list the specifics in enough detail; print is still the best. Plus you will need a full-sized set of plans, and some special tools which you can order or make yourself depending on your level of commitment. But yes, nothing is more satisfying. The website par excellence is the musical instrument maker's forum, at www.mimf.com, but be warned, they won't tolerate general questions such as 'how do i make a fiddle?' Read their FAQ first. Good luck!
Does any one know if the inside of the fiddle is varnished. In addition, in todays modern world do fiddle makers use "polyuathanes" and stains instead of varnish?
The old makers used to soak their wood in various preparations, though. There was a shipwreck not too long ago and there was an orchestra onboard. They recovered some of the instruments and discovered that the older violins were able to be put back together and played again because of the preparation of the wood, where the newer ones were ruined completely.
But no, as Brad says, you don't varnish the inside of a fiddle. Some makers color the inside sometimes, though.
Polyurethane is not considered a good thing to use on a fiddle. The reason is apparently that it doesn't allow the wood to move freely or something. However, for a beginning fiddle, I'd imagine that it wouldn't be too terribly unacceptable (so long as you don't mind getting laughed at by real makers). Makers have used stains time out of mind on fiddles. They are generally used to make the tops (generally made of different wood from the rest of the body) match the bodies better before varnishing. David Gusset, a violin maker, has an excellent explanation at http://www.gussetviolins.com/varnish.htm . He's even got electron microscopic pics of the layers of finish on some old violins on that page. There's also an overview there of the process of making a fiddle.
There are many sites out there to help in making a fiddle -- a quick search will throw up hundreds of them.
I wonder if Tung Oil is a good choice to soak the wood in. It's been used for flutes, and i've used it on furniture. It does a very good job of waterproofing and stabilizing the wood.
I think you can use anything pretty much at all that you like -- it's just that you might get laughed at by real makers! Remembering that perfectly good music has been made on fiddles made out of cigar boxes and tin, I suppose that it doesn't matter much what you use, so long as it makes a decent sound. "Decent sound", of course, is a matter of personal definition!
Thanks to all who responded to my question. I think I will try a poly on a violin-in-white to experiment and see on how it sounds. I will leave the inside as is.
A lot of the violins in white apparently need opening up and further scraping on the insides to get better sound (and you can put your own label in at the same time!). I've never done it myself, but thought it was worth mentioning. At some point, I suppose I will try it, but I don't have the scrapers as of yet. I'm still saving up for the bronze peg shavers I want!
I am studying instrument making in London. My specialism is modern fretted instruments, so I'm no expert on fiddles. However, I would say this: If you are going to put all that effort into making a good instrument and spend money on quality timber, then for heaven's sake, use a decent varnish, as it WILL affect the sound and the appearance in the long run. The general view is that makers such as Stradivari and Guarneri had optimised the design of the violin by C17th. There are differences of opinion regarding varnishes (this is supposedly one of the factors which contributed to the unrivalled quality of Stradivarius' instruments), but I doubt any serious maker would advocate the use of polyurethane.
I know what you mean, David -- I did talk to a professional maker, and his viewpoint was that a first fiddle should always be made out of less than first grade tonewoods and the finish wouldn't matter much...because a first fiddle will likely be awful anyway!
Constructing a fiddle
Constructing a fiddle
I've had a bee in my bonnet for some time, and at last I'm going for it ,TO MAKE MY OWN FIDDLE!. Have any sessioneers ever suceeded in doing this? I know there are loads of Luthiers suppliers out there, but does anyone know of a site where there is a step by step guide, or a comprehensive list of tools? By the way Jeremy, this site is my number 1 place to visit each time I surf, Thanks for all your hard work.
Frank
# Posted on November 30th 2001 by Backer
Re: Constructing a fiddle
Hi Frank!
This is something that I've been working towards for quite some time. There's a lot of books that are very helpful, easy enough to find out there on the Web. But I thought that what I'd start with is taking white violins and finishing them first. You can find them out on auction at E-bay and such (and find a lot of suppliers at the same time!). The tools can be very expensive, so I thought I'd try it in stages.
Have you ever seen any of the tin fiddles that the tinsmiths used to make in Ireland? And the old cigar box fiddles? Pretty fascinating stuff...
Zina
# Posted on November 30th 2001 by Zina Lee
Going elecric?
I wonder if it would be a lot easier to make an electric fiddle, not having to deal with the hollow body. Just a thought.
# Posted on November 30th 2001 by glauber
Re: Constructing a fiddle
The problem with solid body electric fiddles is that it doesn't sound quite right -- which is why so many people use those soundpost pickups...
Not that I can really tell the difference. I'm no audiophile, I'm still working on things like rolls. *grin*
zls
# Posted on November 30th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: Constructing a fiddle
I hadn't thought about a white fiddle, you see I figured if I was going to go to the bother of doing this thing I wanted to be able to brag to my friends that I'd done it All myself! But now youv'e given me a nasty idea Zina.
# Posted on November 30th 2001 by Backer
Re: Constructing a fiddle
Check out a book titled, "Violin Making as it is and was", written by Ed Herron-Allan. It was written about 125 years ago, and contains patterns and detailed instructions for building a Strad model violin, and a Guarnerius model. It is one of the few books which details the use of the 'outside mold' (the fiddle sides are curved to fit inside the mold, with the mold on the outside!) which is the preference of many of todays advanced makers.
Also, your local library probably contains several books, with patterns.
Best of luck,
Scott D
# Posted on November 30th 2001 by scottythefiddler
Re: Constructing a fiddle
Thanks to everybody for your suggestions. I haven't suceeded in finding any "white fiddle " supplier yet, but I'll persevere 'til I do. I'm sure there are lots of fiddle factories in China, as all the lower priced models come from there. For the moment I need to get my Craic recording wrapped up and then I'll start carving.
# Posted on December 1st 2001 by Backer
Re: Constructing a fiddle
Oh, try http://www.DoReMiBuys.com/...Kelly is very nice and easy to deal with. There's pretty good deals on the white fiddles at E-bay. Just stick to your price and don't re-bid if you get outbid, because sooner or later you'll find an auction to get the cheaper price.
I started with white fiddles because I can't afford to buy ALL the tools all at once. This way I got some of the finishing tools, and will get some of the other wood carving tools later when I try my hand at the whole schmeer...
Zina
# Posted on December 2nd 2001 by Zina Lee
Ooops...I should've put a space in there... try
http://www.DoReMiBuys.com/
Kelly also sells the white fiddles they carry at E-bay starting at what I think is cost.
# Posted on December 2nd 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: Constructing a fiddle
Possibly a bit off track, but I have recently finished 2 electric fiddles. The original plan was to also make an electric viola and cello to enable a string quartet to perform with them. They are both made from birds eye maple, the whole violin being made in one piece. I used the ashworth bridge style pickup and it is fabulous. I used guitar mini machine heads which look great but was not the best idea i've had as they make the head fairly heavy when you've been playing for a while. They are both finished in metalic car spray. Not as difficult as an acoustic but it is a delicate job. Never again!!!
# Posted on December 2nd 2001 by Dexy
Building instruments
This site:
http://www.ehhs.cmich.edu/~dhavlena/
Is an endless source of instrument-making ideas, mostly weird. Check it out!
g
# Posted on December 2nd 2001 by glauber
I found a few more interesting violin making links:
http://www.violins.demon.co.uk/making/
http://www.scavm.com/
http://www.graffiti.it/stradivari/photostory/welcome.html
I read a Web page once by someone describing how he made a hexagon-shaped violin, but so far i wasn't able to find it again. If i find it i'll let you know.
# Posted on December 2nd 2001 by glauber
Re: Constructing a fiddle
Frank, constructing a fiddle is a major undertaking, but I firmly believe it is in the reach of anyone. "Making Stringed Instruments: A Workshop Guide" by George Buchanan is by far and away the best instruction manual for my money. I don't believe there are any websites which list the specifics in enough detail; print is still the best. Plus you will need a full-sized set of plans, and some special tools which you can order or make yourself depending on your level of commitment. But yes, nothing is more satisfying. The website par excellence is the musical instrument maker's forum, at www.mimf.com, but be warned, they won't tolerate general questions such as 'how do i make a fiddle?' Read their FAQ first. Good luck!
# Posted on December 2nd 2001 by beetlewolff
Re: Constructing a fiddle
Does any one know if the inside of the fiddle is varnished. In addition, in todays modern world do fiddle makers use "polyuathanes" and stains instead of varnish?
# Posted on December 5th 2001 by Kmiller
Re: Constructing a fiddle
A violin isn't varnished on the inside.
# Posted on December 5th 2001 by B Rad
Re: Constructing a fiddle
The old makers used to soak their wood in various preparations, though. There was a shipwreck not too long ago and there was an orchestra onboard. They recovered some of the instruments and discovered that the older violins were able to be put back together and played again because of the preparation of the wood, where the newer ones were ruined completely.
But no, as Brad says, you don't varnish the inside of a fiddle. Some makers color the inside sometimes, though.
Polyurethane is not considered a good thing to use on a fiddle. The reason is apparently that it doesn't allow the wood to move freely or something. However, for a beginning fiddle, I'd imagine that it wouldn't be too terribly unacceptable (so long as you don't mind getting laughed at by real makers). Makers have used stains time out of mind on fiddles. They are generally used to make the tops (generally made of different wood from the rest of the body) match the bodies better before varnishing. David Gusset, a violin maker, has an excellent explanation at http://www.gussetviolins.com/varnish.htm . He's even got electron microscopic pics of the layers of finish on some old violins on that page. There's also an overview there of the process of making a fiddle.
There are many sites out there to help in making a fiddle -- a quick search will throw up hundreds of them.
Zina
# Posted on December 5th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: Constructing a fiddle
I wonder if Tung Oil is a good choice to soak the wood in. It's been used for flutes, and i've used it on furniture. It does a very good job of waterproofing and stabilizing the wood.
# Posted on December 5th 2001 by glauber
Re: Constructing a fiddle
I think you can use anything pretty much at all that you like -- it's just that you might get laughed at by real makers!
Remembering that perfectly good music has been made on fiddles made out of cigar boxes and tin, I suppose that it doesn't matter much what you use, so long as it makes a decent sound. "Decent sound", of course, is a matter of personal definition!
Zina
# Posted on December 5th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: Constructing a fiddle
Thanks to all who responded to my question. I think I will try a poly on a violin-in-white to experiment and see on how it sounds. I will leave the inside as is.
Kev
# Posted on December 6th 2001 by Kmiller
Re: Constructing a fiddle
A lot of the violins in white apparently need opening up and further scraping on the insides to get better sound (and you can put your own label in at the same time!). I've never done it myself, but thought it was worth mentioning. At some point, I suppose I will try it, but I don't have the scrapers as of yet. I'm still saving up for the bronze peg shavers I want!
Zina
# Posted on December 6th 2001 by Zina Lee
Re: Constructing a fiddle
I am studying instrument making in London. My specialism is modern fretted instruments, so I'm no expert on fiddles. However, I would say this: If you are going to put all that effort into making a good instrument and spend money on quality timber, then for heaven's sake, use a decent varnish, as it WILL affect the sound and the appearance in the long run. The general view is that makers such as Stradivari and Guarneri had optimised the design of the violin by C17th. There are differences of opinion regarding varnishes (this is supposedly one of the factors which contributed to the unrivalled quality of Stradivarius' instruments), but I doubt any serious maker would advocate the use of polyurethane.
# Posted on December 7th 2001 by CreadurMawnOrganig
Re: Constructing a fiddle
I know what you mean, David -- I did talk to a professional maker, and his viewpoint was that a first fiddle should always be made out of less than first grade tonewoods and the finish wouldn't matter much...because a first fiddle will likely be awful anyway!
zls
# Posted on December 8th 2001 by Zina Lee