I like base accompaniment, when played openly and with due regard to the melody, whether at a session or at a gig. I’d be interested to know what others think (in the context of traditional music). So if you’d like to share your opinions & experiences I’d be grateful….
I too never go into the base -ment without accompaniment - I'm scared of the dark.
However, BASS accompaniment is less than useful at a session, where the tradition is melodic, not harmonic.
Having said that, I play bass in a barn-dance band, where it serves a useful purpose, laying down the basic ( sorry ! ) beat for those too unaware of the rhythms of ITM to pick it up from our fiddle and flute.
What I find I don't enjoy is those pro 'concert' bands with a bass - after many years of session-playing I'd much rather they had another melodic instrument instead.
Very nicely done Steve. Often it's the accompanist and not the accompaniment that's base.
The problem with bass at least here in Yankeeland is the natural tendency for it to devolve into footstompin', barn-quaking, "y'all"-ridden hoe-down-itry, making a big 'boom-chucka' out of your lovely, bouncy reels.
Wow, did anyone understand that? Do I? Back to the coffee pot for me.
I play in a group here with a base player. I find him very relaxed but when we have a stand in he can dominate the entire sound by putting too much in. Follow the guitar, stay with the drums and it sounds great. Don't and it sounds messy.
I understood . I think a lot of the disagreements here come from our different experiences living in different countries. Here I rarely see bass in sessions, but when it happens its a great addition to the music. Especially that old double bass yoke! Probably because its impossible to get it through the door and crowds drinking! and then finding a space once they are in! near Impossible.
Must have been thinking about base jumping in the boarders ; )
I've had some good and bad experiences with the bass. On balance though I'd say most bass players who are prepared to turn up have a fair Idea of what will work. The thing I found with a bass present was it kept people on the fringes of a big session closer to the tune starters time. Also, due to the frequency of the instrument there are no problems with clarity or mudding, even though it's loud you can still hear everything else.
Some of the good pipers use drones. A good piano player will use bass notes. I'm not the biggest fan of adding harmony or guitar or bodhran. I prefer *the tune*, but until I hear what someone has to contribute I will not exclude them on the basis of which instrument they choose.
Also, just because someone can play an instrument in one genre it does not mean everything translates to another genre.
"I like base accompaniment, when played openly"...
Are there any base accompanists out there, not playing openly? Playing furtively, secretively, in dark out-of-the-way corners? Maybe hiding behind the sofa and playing very quietly, so no-one can hear? Waiting until everyone else has left the session before sneaking out the back door?
Well said Random_notes as thats my attitude also (stick in with the kazo0o).
I have to say as far as ITM is concerned I'm more bothyband than chieftain's IYKWIM and therefore I don't consider a bass out of place.
open meaning the melody is not being dragged off to where it dose not belong by inadvertent harmonies and enough space left for others. Low frequency in the right hands adds real and tangible presence plus much depth IMO. Everyones perception of what constitutes a good sound or a sound which they consider to be appropriate will vary.
I can think of several good players in scotland who more than make the grade although I appreciate it's not everyones cup of tea.
Flattery will get you every where Ionnannas. However my choice would be on acoustic bass , Marc Johnston of the late Bill Evans fame, or on electric, Max Bennett if he's still about .
I have related this story before, but a few years ago, the publican discouraged an upright bass player from attending the session because "he took up the room of two payin' customers, for God's sake!"
Well AlBrown, as is often the case with a regular session some publicans can take the music for granted.
There are some in my location who don't attend the regular sessions because of this fact and the fact that a quality duet or threesome can still lift a tidy sum for an acoustic gig. If a venue/pub isn't music friendly what's the point of attending? There needs to be a certain symbiosis; if the publican is doing alright from the music then the muzos should benefit also. Small establishments maybe cant put up that much for music but a welcome costs nothing and is often all that is needed by way of remuneration for those just out for the craic.
God what a difference a spelling mistake makes!! About 20 years ago we had a trad band ("String Fever") featuring electric bass guitar. After a while the bass player decided to get an acoustic bass guitar to get a more natural sound. The band had some success but then imploded around 1992. Soon after, it was noticebale how DOUBLE BASS became very acceptable in the hands of players such as Paul O'Driscoll and Trevor Hutchinson.
IMHO the original ITM bass groove was invented by Triona Ni Dhomhnaill in the Bothy Band - some of the things she did with the clavinet were amazing and totally in keeping with the rest of the band. Awesome...!
As a box player (and a very base one!) I first thought the question was about playing the bass buttons along with the melody, which I think is nice if well done and best when the box is played solo. I never play bass notes while playing melody in a session however.
Did try bringing my new bass to a session for a few times. Unfortunately, it had terrible acoustic qualities, and worst of all it started to smell after a few days.
Hey SWFL:
"...here in Yankeeland is the natural tendency for it to devolve into footstompin', barn-quaking, "y'all"-ridden hoe-down-itry, making a big 'boom-chucka' out of your lovely, bouncy reels."
Yup, I understood. I figured out really early on that it's all too easy for a bad backer to turn the tunes into some kind of weird bluegrass...not that there's anything wrong with bluegrass, it's just not what I'm interested in playing.
Dang!, I stayed up too late working and now i can't sleep...
Yee Haw!
Had a chance to go to the free St George's Day concert ( 2 days late ) in Trafalgar Square, and caught Jim Mpray and the Tickells.
Jim Moray had a drummer who seemed to be mixed on the PA system by a drum'n'bass club engineer - the bass drum was so loud and intrusive that potentially good music being played by the other musicians was completely inaudible.
There was one guy playing fiddle and hurdygurdy, another on melodian, and Jim on various electric guitars, but most of what they were playing was thrown away in the mix.
Is this what it's come to ? ( Stomps away with his walking stick, sucking at pipe and pint of real ale....)
I did bring both my electronic keyboard and my acoustic bass fiddle to the local sessions a few times and switched back and forth from one instrument to the other depending on what tune the melody players were playing.
I stopped bringing both instruments because it was too much trouble. All I bring to the sessions now is the electronic keyboard and play it as a piano.
I still play the bass fiddle but not at the Irish Sessions.
It is a matter of personal taste. I don't like bass in Irish traditional music if it means electric guitar bass or a bass fiddle. It has a tendency especially with no percussion to plod along with the beat.
However, I have experimented with two alternatives. At times I play bodhran that is tuned low and I play with a self made foam covered tipper. The result is bass-percussion. Then I have a 12 string guitar I have altered to an 8 string guitar. So you play it like Bouzouki. Because of the size and depth of a 12 string, it also gives you a bass sound integrated with chords.
Base Accompaniment
Base Accompaniment
I like base accompaniment, when played openly and with due regard to the melody, whether at a session or at a gig. I’d be interested to know what others think (in the context of traditional music). So if you’d like to share your opinions & experiences I’d be grateful….
SM
# Posted on April 26th 2009 by Solidmahog
Re: Base Accompaniment
I too never go into the base -ment without accompaniment - I'm scared of the dark.
However, BASS accompaniment is less than useful at a session, where the tradition is melodic, not harmonic.
Having said that, I play bass in a barn-dance band, where it serves a useful purpose, laying down the basic ( sorry ! ) beat for those too unaware of the rhythms of ITM to pick it up from our fiddle and flute.
What I find I don't enjoy is those pro 'concert' bands with a bass - after many years of session-playing I'd much rather they had another melodic instrument instead.
# Posted on April 26th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Base Accompaniment
Many here find all accompaniment base.
# Posted on April 26th 2009 by Steve L
Re: Base Accompaniment
Very nicely done Steve. Often it's the accompanist and not the accompaniment that's base.
The problem with bass at least here in Yankeeland is the natural tendency for it to devolve into footstompin', barn-quaking, "y'all"-ridden hoe-down-itry, making a big 'boom-chucka' out of your lovely, bouncy reels.
Wow, did anyone understand that? Do I? Back to the coffee pot for me.
# Posted on April 26th 2009 by SWFL Fiddler
Re: Base Accompaniment
I play in a group here with a base player. I find him very relaxed but when we have a stand in he can dominate the entire sound by putting too much in. Follow the guitar, stay with the drums and it sounds great. Don't and it sounds messy.
# Posted on April 26th 2009 by SlowAndSteady
Re: Base Accompaniment
I understood
# Posted on April 26th 2009 by the wicked hacker
Re: Base Accompaniment
We have some very base players around here too...
No bass players though...
# Posted on April 26th 2009 by Richard D Cook
Re: Base Accompaniment
I don't like anything but melody in our session; and I'm a life-long bass player.
# Posted on April 26th 2009 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: Base Accompaniment
Must have been thinking about base jumping in the boarders ; )
I've had some good and bad experiences with the bass. On balance though I'd say most bass players who are prepared to turn up have a fair Idea of what will work. The thing I found with a bass present was it kept people on the fringes of a big session closer to the tune starters time. Also, due to the frequency of the instrument there are no problems with clarity or mudding, even though it's loud you can still hear everything else.
# Posted on April 26th 2009 by Solidmahog
Re: Base Accompaniment
My best freind is bass player. I also play bass. For many types of music it is the heartbeat.
In ITM, the Music is the heartbeat and it transends the need for an instrument. That's why the tunes are hard to learn properly.
It is a type of music where bass is as out of place as a fuzz-tone or a kazoo. I am not demeaning the bass. it is an important instrument.
# Posted on April 26th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Base Accompaniment
Some of the good pipers use drones. A good piano player will use bass notes. I'm not the biggest fan of adding harmony or guitar or bodhran. I prefer *the tune*, but until I hear what someone has to contribute I will not exclude them on the basis of which instrument they choose.
Also, just because someone can play an instrument in one genre it does not mean everything translates to another genre.
# Posted on April 26th 2009 by Random_notes
*
you'll excuse me while I practice "Tam Lin" on my kazoo. In private.
;)
# Posted on April 26th 2009 by Random_notes
Re: Base Accompaniment
"I like base accompaniment, when played openly"...
Are there any base accompanists out there, not playing openly? Playing furtively, secretively, in dark out-of-the-way corners? Maybe hiding behind the sofa and playing very quietly, so no-one can hear? Waiting until everyone else has left the session before sneaking out the back door?
If they exits, I've never seen them.
# Posted on April 26th 2009 by Hammurabi Breathnach
Re: Base Accompaniment
I would pose the question. If you had to have a bass player
at a trad session , who would it be?
# Posted on April 27th 2009 by chuneboi slim
Re: Base Accompaniment
I'd have to go with Rick Clunn, 4 time bassmaster champion: http://www.fishingworld.com/Pro-RickClunn/
# Posted on April 27th 2009 by Miss Lonelyhearts
Re: Base Accompaniment
chunboi slim of course!
# Posted on April 27th 2009 by the wicked hacker
Re: Base Accompaniment
Well said Random_notes as thats my attitude also (stick in with the kazo0o).
I have to say as far as ITM is concerned I'm more bothyband than chieftain's IYKWIM and therefore I don't consider a bass out of place.
open meaning the melody is not being dragged off to where it dose not belong by inadvertent harmonies and enough space left for others. Low frequency in the right hands adds real and tangible presence plus much depth IMO. Everyones perception of what constitutes a good sound or a sound which they consider to be appropriate will vary.
I can think of several good players in scotland who more than make the grade although I appreciate it's not everyones cup of tea.
# Posted on April 27th 2009 by Solidmahog
Re: Base Accompaniment
Flattery will get you every where Ionnannas. However my choice would be on acoustic bass , Marc Johnston of the late Bill Evans fame, or on electric, Max Bennett if he's still about .
# Posted on April 27th 2009 by chuneboi slim
Re: Base Accompaniment
I have related this story before, but a few years ago, the publican discouraged an upright bass player from attending the session because "he took up the room of two payin' customers, for God's sake!"
# Posted on April 27th 2009 by AlBrown
Re: Base Accompaniment
Well AlBrown, as is often the case with a regular session some publicans can take the music for granted.
There are some in my location who don't attend the regular sessions because of this fact and the fact that a quality duet or threesome can still lift a tidy sum for an acoustic gig. If a venue/pub isn't music friendly what's the point of attending? There needs to be a certain symbiosis; if the publican is doing alright from the music then the muzos should benefit also. Small establishments maybe cant put up that much for music but a welcome costs nothing and is often all that is needed by way of remuneration for those just out for the craic.
# Posted on April 27th 2009 by Solidmahog
Re: Base Accompaniment
Danny Thomson. Or Edgar Mayer
# Posted on April 27th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Base Accompaniment
God what a difference a spelling mistake makes!! About 20 years ago we had a trad band ("String Fever") featuring electric bass guitar. After a while the bass player decided to get an acoustic bass guitar to get a more natural sound. The band had some success but then imploded around 1992. Soon after, it was noticebale how DOUBLE BASS became very acceptable in the hands of players such as Paul O'Driscoll and Trevor Hutchinson.
IMHO the original ITM bass groove was invented by Triona Ni Dhomhnaill in the Bothy Band - some of the things she did with the clavinet were amazing and totally in keeping with the rest of the band. Awesome...!
# Posted on April 27th 2009 by lysaghtm
Re: Base Accompaniment
As a box player (and a very base one!) I first thought the question was about playing the bass buttons along with the melody, which I think is nice if well done and best when the box is played solo. I never play bass notes while playing melody in a session however.
# Posted on April 27th 2009 by PatrickJWK
Re: Base Accompaniment
Did try bringing my new bass to a session for a few times. Unfortunately, it had terrible acoustic qualities, and worst of all it started to smell after a few days.
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by ayedbl
Re: Base Accompaniment
Hey SWFL:
"...here in Yankeeland is the natural tendency for it to devolve into footstompin', barn-quaking, "y'all"-ridden hoe-down-itry, making a big 'boom-chucka' out of your lovely, bouncy reels."
Yup, I understood. I figured out really early on that it's all too easy for a bad backer to turn the tunes into some kind of weird bluegrass...not that there's anything wrong with bluegrass, it's just not what I'm interested in playing.
Dang!, I stayed up too late working and now i can't sleep...
Yee Haw!
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by tomw
Re: Bass Accompaniment
Had a chance to go to the free St George's Day concert ( 2 days late ) in Trafalgar Square, and caught Jim Mpray and the Tickells.
Jim Moray had a drummer who seemed to be mixed on the PA system by a drum'n'bass club engineer - the bass drum was so loud and intrusive that potentially good music being played by the other musicians was completely inaudible.
There was one guy playing fiddle and hurdygurdy, another on melodian, and Jim on various electric guitars, but most of what they were playing was thrown away in the mix.
Is this what it's come to ? ( Stomps away with his walking stick, sucking at pipe and pint of real ale....)
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Base Accompaniment
Oh, but the Tickells were a joy - just played the music on acoustic instruments; fiddles, Northumbrian smallpipes, acoustic guitar.
What a difference.
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by Guernsey Pete
Re: Base Accompaniment
I did bring both my electronic keyboard and my acoustic bass fiddle to the local sessions a few times and switched back and forth from one instrument to the other depending on what tune the melody players were playing.
I stopped bringing both instruments because it was too much trouble. All I bring to the sessions now is the electronic keyboard and play it as a piano.
I still play the bass fiddle but not at the Irish Sessions.
# Posted on April 28th 2009 by fauxcelt
Re: Base Accompaniment
I'd have Eoghan O'Neill with a fretless bass. But it sure wouln't be 'trad'.
# Posted on April 29th 2009 by Beanzy
Re: Base Accompaniment
It is a matter of personal taste. I don't like bass in Irish traditional music if it means electric guitar bass or a bass fiddle. It has a tendency especially with no percussion to plod along with the beat.
However, I have experimented with two alternatives. At times I play bodhran that is tuned low and I play with a self made foam covered tipper. The result is bass-percussion. Then I have a 12 string guitar I have altered to an 8 string guitar. So you play it like Bouzouki. Because of the size and depth of a 12 string, it also gives you a bass sound integrated with chords.
# Posted on May 5th 2009 by Micheál