Couldn't disagree more. It's a complete disrespect to the composer to rename a tune because you don't know, (or are too lazy to find out) the name. There are plenty of recent examples of composers being very p!ssed off by people paying no attention to their tune names. MacLeods Farewell is a good example. Written recently by Donald Shaw it was recorded by Lunasa as the Wedding Reel. Sold many thousands and not only would it deprive him of income from the tune most people think it's a trad Irish tune called the Wedding Reel. They also recorded Dr Angus MacDonalds tune 'Chloe's Passion' as the Kitchen Maid. Fair enough if for example Paddy Fahey doesn't name a tune call it Paddy Fahey's but to name a tune after someone who likes it is crap.
I agree bogman. I often can't be arsed with tune names, but recording them is a different matter.
I once did a recording of a new tune and told the record label it's name and who composed it. And when it came out it just had one of those single titles for the set thing and no credit. I was feckin livid.
That is the actual Kitchen Maid TSS. Chloe's Passion is correctly named here it was just wrongly named on the recording.
Yes, Llig, the naming as a set thing is also really annoying. Don't know if you've ever bought tracks from itunes, I do sometimes if there are albums with great tunes but also has sloshy songs. Often the set is named but with no sleeve you have no way of knowing the tune names. As you say it's not a big problem if you just want to play them but if you want to record them you have to go searching for the names. It's just a courtesy to credit the composer, even if someone is a hippy who thinks 'the music is everyone's man' then it still doesn't take much of a sacrifice to credit a composer.
I certainly don't know the name of many of the tunes that I play but if I was doing a broadcast or a recording I'd do my best to find out something about the tune like the name or at least where I first came across it. You wouldn't get a classical musician announcing in public that he or she didn't know the name of a piece of music they were about to play..... Picture the scene...Now ladies and gentlemen I would like to play this lively little piece that I learnt from an old neighbour of mine. A fiddler by the name of Fritz Chrysler, so I'll call it Chrysler's Favourite. The piece of music then turns out to Hungarian Dance in G Minor by Brahams..... Why should we be any different in our approach to our music?
Actually, I'm in favour of trying to learn the names and crediting composers, but quoting precedent set by classical musicians is irrelevant in a trad context.
Yeah, it's one thing that bugs me about going to see trad bands, them spending half the night whispering into the bloody microphone about how they got a tune "from the playing of ...." . And half the time it's "from the playing of ...." a bloody record.
But good ol' Fritz Kreisler is a funny one to quote in the context of this discussion. He used to play a lot of tunes he'd written himself, but on the programme, he'd credit some other composer, usually an obscure one. It was only later in his life he owned up to penning them himself.
20 years ago as a completely accidental newcomer to this kind of music, finding myself growing to like it, I used to ask the musicians in my local if the tunes had names, and would get a specific name maybe about 30% of the time. If no name could be produced it was always a smiling shrug of the shoulders in a "who cares?" kind of gesture and then they'd be off into the next set. It bugged me at the time because I wanted to know that the names were so I could find the tunes on recordings so I could listen to them at will.
The interesting thing is that there were nameless tunes that I must have learnt by osmosis back then because they were the first ones that came to my fingers when I started learning to play 17 years later. I'm still finding them and discovering that they do actually have names. Of course.
What makes some tunes come to mind easier is not the memory of their names, but the memory of the tunes themselves. Sometimes "DEE de deedledy DOO de deedledy" jogs the memory quicker than its name. A name is just a tag, like a file name. Names don't define things, they are mere references.
Naming sets of tunes with one name instead of each individual tunes is one my pet peeves, especially as I get albums off emusic and itunes and like Bogman says, you don't get sleeve notes. I really like knowing names of tunes so it annoys me when I have to hunt for it or hope someone eventually tells me what it's called.
re: trad bands saying they learned bands from records... That is a running joke amongst some of my music friends. If you play something and someone asks you where you got it, you answer very importantly, "I learned from the playing of (insert famous muso here)." Then long pause... Then you add, "Well, his/her CD."
Yeah, it's a great p*ss take on the seanchais thing. I got this tune from old Mick who got it at a session from a famous flute player who got from his now deceased neighbour who learned it off a Bothy Band record.
Agreed, it can be a p*ss take, but is it necessarily wrong to study older recordings (or even manuscripts from collectors) to research and revive tunes or settings that may be little heard nowadays? I'm thinking of archival-recordings, maybe even out-of-print 78s, rather than Bothy Band CDs. Of course, you should always be up-front about your sources, and not try to imply some personal connection that never existed. Is that so bad?
HB
'quoting precedent set by classical musicians is irrelevant in a trad context'........How dare you!
.But Sir I was only using an Analogy
Llig - OK so good old Fritz didn't fit the bill, so hows about Yehudi Menuhin then, or Hugie McMenamen as we use to call him..
I loved the Bothy Band too, But around that time
they for an example, Many would put a set of tunes and - L.p. back cover --
Bothy,, Example, write - Music in the Glen,
But there where two reels Music of the Glen / The Otters Holt -- Took me a long time getting- Right Title to the tune I played it the session ,,,
gan ainm!!!
gan ainm!!!
i hate asking someone the name of a tune and the never know the bloody name of it .why cant you just make up a name to fit the tune?
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by Máirtín Quigley
Re: gan ainm!!!
Because some musician, at some point in time, composed it, and probably gave it a name for a reason.
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by Kenny
Re: gan ainm!!!
From now on, whenever someone asks me "What tune is that?" and I don't know the name, I will say "Máirtín Quigley's Favourite".
# Posted on April 6th 2009 by Hammurabi Breathnach
Re: gan ainm!!!
Yeah - People use to do that with Tommy Peoples
Jig / Reel etc -But once he told me Year's ago -
That,, He never wrote Half of Them,,,,
jim,,
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by FIDDLE4
Re: gan ainm!!!
I was thinking of changing my name to "Gan Ainm", and then I'd go down as one of the greatest composers of all time.
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by nofrets
Re: gan ainm!!!
Either that or you would be admitted to hospital for amnesia!
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: gan ainm!!!
I just say, "you know, the one that goes dee dee diddley diddley dee" and the other person will say "oh yeah, now I remember..."
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by Greg the Piano Tuner
Re: gan ainm!!!
god hb your a sound man
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by Máirtín Quigley
Re: gan ainm!!!
Couldn't disagree more. It's a complete disrespect to the composer to rename a tune because you don't know, (or are too lazy to find out) the name. There are plenty of recent examples of composers being very p!ssed off by people paying no attention to their tune names. MacLeods Farewell is a good example. Written recently by Donald Shaw it was recorded by Lunasa as the Wedding Reel. Sold many thousands and not only would it deprive him of income from the tune most people think it's a trad Irish tune called the Wedding Reel. They also recorded Dr Angus MacDonalds tune 'Chloe's Passion' as the Kitchen Maid. Fair enough if for example Paddy Fahey doesn't name a tune call it Paddy Fahey's but to name a tune after someone who likes it is crap.
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by bogman
Re: gan ainm!!!
Bogman,
So this is really called Chloe's Passion? http://www.thesession.org/tunes/display/4140
Or is it a different tune altogether?
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by TheSilverSpear
Re: gan ainm!!!
I agree bogman. I often can't be arsed with tune names, but recording them is a different matter.
I once did a recording of a new tune and told the record label it's name and who composed it. And when it came out it just had one of those single titles for the set thing and no credit. I was feckin livid.
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: gan ainm!!!
That is the actual Kitchen Maid TSS. Chloe's Passion is correctly named here it was just wrongly named on the recording.
Yes, Llig, the naming as a set thing is also really annoying. Don't know if you've ever bought tracks from itunes, I do sometimes if there are albums with great tunes but also has sloshy songs. Often the set is named but with no sleeve you have no way of knowing the tune names. As you say it's not a big problem if you just want to play them but if you want to record them you have to go searching for the names. It's just a courtesy to credit the composer, even if someone is a hippy who thinks 'the music is everyone's man' then it still doesn't take much of a sacrifice to credit a composer.
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by bogman
Re: gan ainm!!!
I certainly don't know the name of many of the tunes that I play but if I was doing a broadcast or a recording I'd do my best to find out something about the tune like the name or at least where I first came across it. You wouldn't get a classical musician announcing in public that he or she didn't know the name of a piece of music they were about to play..... Picture the scene...Now ladies and gentlemen I would like to play this lively little piece that I learnt from an old neighbour of mine. A fiddler by the name of Fritz Chrysler, so I'll call it Chrysler's Favourite. The piece of music then turns out to Hungarian Dance in G Minor by Brahams..... Why should we be any different in our approach to our music?
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by Free Reed
Re: gan ainm!!!
Because we don't play classical music.
Actually, I'm in favour of trying to learn the names and crediting composers, but quoting precedent set by classical musicians is irrelevant in a trad context.
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by Hammurabi Breathnach
Re: gan ainm!!!
Yeah, it's one thing that bugs me about going to see trad bands, them spending half the night whispering into the bloody microphone about how they got a tune "from the playing of ...." . And half the time it's "from the playing of ...." a bloody record.
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: gan ainm!!!
"Fritz Chrysler" (sic) - that's a beaut !
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by domnull
Re: gan ainm!!!
he he, I never spotted that.
But good ol' Fritz Kreisler is a funny one to quote in the context of this discussion. He used to play a lot of tunes he'd written himself, but on the programme, he'd credit some other composer, usually an obscure one. It was only later in his life he owned up to penning them himself.
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: gan ainm!!!
20 years ago as a completely accidental newcomer to this kind of music, finding myself growing to like it, I used to ask the musicians in my local if the tunes had names, and would get a specific name maybe about 30% of the time. If no name could be produced it was always a smiling shrug of the shoulders in a "who cares?" kind of gesture and then they'd be off into the next set. It bugged me at the time because I wanted to know that the names were so I could find the tunes on recordings so I could listen to them at will.
The interesting thing is that there were nameless tunes that I must have learnt by osmosis back then because they were the first ones that came to my fingers when I started learning to play 17 years later. I'm still finding them and discovering that they do actually have names. Of course.
What makes some tunes come to mind easier is not the memory of their names, but the memory of the tunes themselves. Sometimes "DEE de deedledy DOO de deedledy" jogs the memory quicker than its name. A name is just a tag, like a file name. Names don't define things, they are mere references.
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by bindicat
Re: gan ainm!!!
Naming sets of tunes with one name instead of each individual tunes is one my pet peeves, especially as I get albums off emusic and itunes and like Bogman says, you don't get sleeve notes. I really like knowing names of tunes so it annoys me when I have to hunt for it or hope someone eventually tells me what it's called.
re: trad bands saying they learned bands from records... That is a running joke amongst some of my music friends. If you play something and someone asks you where you got it, you answer very importantly, "I learned from the playing of (insert famous muso here)." Then long pause... Then you add, "Well, his/her CD."
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by TheSilverSpear
Re: gan ainm!!!
Yeah, it's a great p*ss take on the seanchais thing. I got this tune from old Mick who got it at a session from a famous flute player who got from his now deceased neighbour who learned it off a Bothy Band record.
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by Patkiwi
Re: gan ainm!!!
Agreed, it can be a p*ss take, but is it necessarily wrong to study older recordings (or even manuscripts from collectors) to research and revive tunes or settings that may be little heard nowadays? I'm thinking of archival-recordings, maybe even out-of-print 78s, rather than Bothy Band CDs. Of course, you should always be up-front about your sources, and not try to imply some personal connection that never existed. Is that so bad?
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by Hammurabi Breathnach
Re: gan ainm!!!
HB
'quoting precedent set by classical musicians is irrelevant in a trad context'........How dare you!
.But Sir I was only using an Analogy
Llig - OK so good old Fritz didn't fit the bill, so hows about Yehudi Menuhin then, or Hugie McMenamen as we use to call him..
# Posted on April 7th 2009 by Free Reed
Re: gan ainm!!!
I loved the Bothy Band too, But around that time
they for an example, Many would put a set of tunes and - L.p. back cover --
Bothy,, Example, write - Music in the Glen,
But there where two reels Music of the Glen / The Otters Holt -- Took me a long time getting- Right Title to the tune I played it the session ,,,
This is NOT a Good Idea ,,, jim,,,,
# Posted on April 8th 2009 by FIDDLE4
Re: gan ainm!!!
'' Gan ainm'' Maybe is a good Idea for the above,,,
If you dont know or Remember the Name of the Tune.
jim,,,,,
# Posted on April 8th 2009 by FIDDLE4