I have recently started learning the uileann pipes and have invested in a practice set made by a genius from co galway. My question is would it be advisable to start off learning slow airs? I also am learning the tin whistle which I consider a practice chanter for the pipes and want to gather as many tunes as possible but I learn music by ear and also notes in abc form. any suggestions welcome
You will get loads of conflicting information from this question, from "sponge it up, learn everything as fast as you want", to even attempt a tune until you can play just one note." I think it's up to you you.
But if anyone comes along with that old piece of bonkers clap trap about seven years for this and seven years for that and seven years for the other, giggle in their face with the patronising condensation they deserve.
The sayings about 7 yrs may well be apocryphal but they come from people who actually can play the instrument!
How long did it take you to learn to play the pipes LLig?
I have pottered about with a practice set and I certainly couldn't conceive of playing anything that was not a simple slow air! Just blowing a single note clearly requires effort! d say its going to take me at least 7 yrs ! good luck and welcome.
I have too many instruments LLig, thinking of selling some! But my practice set of Uilleann pipes stay though I doubt I will ever actually take them to a session! From my experience so far Id say it will take me about 20 yrs!!!
After six years Breandan Breathnach asked me to do a lunchtime recital during the Willie week. I got all the slagging for being 'a prominent piper' and 'an example for students' for it. I did OK though.
After 21 years I realised Ennis was talking about developing depth, insight and nuance (although he himself wasn't doing too badly after a relatively short while). now after 29 years, I still find myself adding bits and learning things.
Thank u all for your valuable input. I am determined to go for it. They have the most intriguing sound. And yes they will break my heart..but life is too short! No doubt I will be on again looking or inspiration. By the way if anyone knows of any easy enough slow airs I can try I would be grateful. But I need the air also...Thanks folks and nice to meet u all
Try Brian Borus, march. But my main advice would be find a teacher! as LW said the reed issues can be very hard to surmount A competent piper will be able to help deal with those issues. Priceless.
I always thought the seven year wait wasn't so much to do with developing musical aptitude, but rather for the development of a thick enough skin so that the piper no longer acres about inflicting their multipitch collection of wheezing reeds on the general public.
The trick with these old musical sayings is to read between the lines.*
- chris
*Furthermore, if you don't do that, you'll miss all the first octave "F"s and "A"s
Join Na Píobairi Uilleann Online..Here you can follow online tutorials to get you startED..Funny one of the basic tunes is the Rambling Pitch fork..Initial lessons are a must as there are varying schools of thought on fingering positions. If you are exited by the likes of Paddy Keenan, Davy Spillane etc, they all use predominantly LEGATO OPEN HOLE "firey" technique favoured by the travellers of Old like Doran and Cash whereas the majority of NPU piper are very tight closed hole players..The pipes are one instrument that it is IMPOSSIBLE to learn by ear..Theres also alot of teachers out there with poor technique..
"But if anyone comes along with that old piece of bonkers clap trap about seven years for this and seven years for that and seven years for the other, giggle in their face with the patronising condescension they deserve."
And I've never met a decent piper who didn't learn by squeezing the things and listening to what it sounded like.
Actually we don't know how John Cash played at all, no recordings of his playing survive and Francis O'Neill's descriptions of him are less than flattering.
Dividing the piping world into 'open' and 'tight' is a rather simplistic device that misses the point quite a bit. It would suggest the dorans for example were completely open players, which they were not. Just as exmples of 'tight' players often use quite a bit of open fingering.
Piping, all a matter of perspective.
And you do learn them by listening to other pipers and listening to yourself extracting the right sounds from the chanter but certainly not from getting opinions on the internet.
Alot of enigmatic nonsence surrounds the instrument..At a recent Belfast Tionol in An Droichead Cooke st.. There was a young fella under the tutelage of Paddy Davey, played pipes for two years. Recital on a power with most of the experienced NPU dublin pipers.. To quote a well known Piper " Someone forgot to tell the young people it was hard to learn the Pipes"
Seperating Open and Closed styles at the initial stages of learning the pipes is crucial..Look at Mc Sherry or Vallelly (shud have said Keenan first), they incorporate both styles but come from solid base of LEGATO piping style. But yeah, eventually the styles have to overlap, most of the advanced piping is tight closed finger in any case. Who knows where Cash learnt his tunes...What style you favour depends on who you grow up listening to / who you think are the greats.. For me its Keenan and John Mc Sherry - Undisputed.. ?
I suspect Kilfarboy is right. I also have a practice set which was working reasonably well for me and I was getting some nice tunes out of it. Unfortunately the reed has completely crapped out (in part due to my over-zealous use of pliers, blades, sandpaper and dental floss). This is where an experienced teacher or piper friend would be worth their weight in gold.
The whistle should serve well in terms of helping you to learn tunes, and with a bit of practice on the chanter, you should be able to transfer them onto the pipes without too much trouble.
I would recommend getting at least the first DVD in 'The Art of Uilleann Piping' series from the NPU site.
Dude..Over Zealous use of pliers etc..NONONONONO..I know people who you could nearly make cry by saying that.. If you check out an Piobaire theres a fella does reeds by post , dunno how good he is..Might be Lorcan Dunne but dont quote me on that. No copies infront of me at work
Hi Lowwhistler
I am 45 so have 20 years on u. Dont give up. Have spoken to a couple of pipers and they tell me perseverence is the key. However they did try and talk me out of even going there in the first place!! If its a dream..pursue it. I got the dvd u mentioned and have found a talented player to teach me some basics so here goes....
"Treating the whistle as a practice chanter, is a Bad idea"
I have a B-flat whistle that I use. I filed/cut a thumb hole in the back and a D-sharp at the bottom. It is great for working on difficult bits. You can stick it on your knee and it plays, a bit breathily, like a pipe chanter. But watch your teeth if you are popping
Sull, I have no intention of giving up! Whenever my desire to play the pipes starts to wane, I just listen to Paddy Keenan and remember why I bought the set in the first place!
I'm currently living somewhere with extremely dry air (which seems to wreak havoc on reeds), and have just put the pipes on hold until I'm back in Ireland a few months from now.
I did not actually mean literally using it as a practice chanter..moreso to learn tunes on and then transfer them to the pipes. In order to learn tunes I need to have both the air and the notes together as in abc notes
That Bb whistle ideas worth a try actually..Whatever way my mind works I find transferring whistle tunes to pipes very difficult at times. Never mind the completely different scope for ornamentation..Conversely pipe tunes are easy enough to transfer to whistle/flute..
l know of two recordings of Glackin plus bad ass piper-"The Whirlwind" w/ Robbie Hannon, and "Doublin'" w/ Paddy Keenan. both done w/out accompaniment. some of my favourite recorded music. Maybe this should be a different discussion, but I think Paddy Glackin has a very fine-tuned, special affinity for playing with pipers. If i recall correctly he also played a few tracks on Keenan's first solo LP on Gael-Linn
Wow Sull...taking up the pipes at age 45 is not an easy thing, as I'm sure people have told you.
I've taught many beginners both on the Highland pipes and uilleann pipes over the years, and the "learning curve" varies dramatically both from age to age but also from person to person.
The people who take up pipes mid-life and who actually get somewhere- become fairly good players- tend to share certain things:
1) previous background in music (this could be piano, trumpet, anything)
2) lots of time to practice (many of the mid-life success stories are stay-at-home moms or self-employed people who in some cases practiced 4 to 8 hours daily)
3) fanatical devotion, preserverance, stick-to-it-iveness, dogged persistence, determination or whatever you want to call it.
Given all these, these few mid-life beginners get pretty good in two or three years.
People who lacked these atributes tend not to go far.
Kids...what can I say? A kid will have his first practice set one week and be blowing through reels up to speed the next, it seems. And in two years, in the time the adult beginner has become a failry solid though mediocre player, the kid will be brilliant.
Oh about what tunes to learn, yes airs and song tunes etc might be best at the start.
When you do start playing jigs and reels, the fault most commonly seen is trying to play them too fast too soon, and not playing them evenly.
Though many on these boards will say no, I myself am a great believer in practicing with a metronome.
So when you start with jigs, play them quite slowly to the clicks of the metronome, only speeding up when you can play all the notes pertectly cleanly and evenly.
Or...much better all would agree... is to use the slow-down software with which you can slow down, say, a recording of Paddy Keenan playing a jig and play along. That way you'll get the pulse and the style as well.
uileann pipes
uileann pipes
I have recently started learning the uileann pipes and have invested in a practice set made by a genius from co galway. My question is would it be advisable to start off learning slow airs? I also am learning the tin whistle which I consider a practice chanter for the pipes and want to gather as many tunes as possible but I learn music by ear and also notes in abc form. any suggestions welcome
# Posted on March 22nd 2009 by Sull
Re: uileann pipes
You will get loads of conflicting information from this question, from "sponge it up, learn everything as fast as you want", to even attempt a tune until you can play just one note." I think it's up to you you.
But if anyone comes along with that old piece of bonkers clap trap about seven years for this and seven years for that and seven years for the other, giggle in their face with the patronising condensation they deserve.
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by ...
Re: uileann pipes
ha, "condenstation" te he.
condescension
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by ...
Re: uileann pipes
That's right - life is short - go for it now
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Hup
Re: uileann pipes
The sayings about 7 yrs may well be apocryphal but they come from people who actually can play the instrument!
good luck and welcome.
How long did it take you to learn to play the pipes LLig?
I have pottered about with a practice set and I certainly couldn't conceive of playing anything that was not a simple slow air! Just blowing a single note clearly requires effort! d say its going to take me at least 7 yrs !
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by piobagusfidil
Re: uileann pipes
What's your instrument Ionannas?
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by ...
Re: uileann pipes
Clearly, his instrument is the argumentium ballogassus....
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Will Harmon
Re: uileann pipes
I have too many instruments LLig, thinking of selling some! But my practice set of Uilleann pipes stay though I doubt I will ever actually take them to a session! From my experience so far Id say it will take me about 20 yrs!!!
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by piobagusfidil
Re: uileann pipes
Yep, the 21 years thing is BS...
It takes 21 years just to learn how to get the chanter reed to play in tune
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Pat Mustard
Re: uileann pipes
After six years Breandan Breathnach asked me to do a lunchtime recital during the Willie week. I got all the slagging for being 'a prominent piper' and 'an example for students' for it. I did OK though.
After 21 years I realised Ennis was talking about developing depth, insight and nuance (although he himself wasn't doing too badly after a relatively short while). now after 29 years, I still find myself adding bits and learning things.
All a matter of perspective. Isn't it?
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: uileann pipes
Yes, there's naught more important than perspective. May everyone have many.
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by ...
Re: uileann pipes
Thank u all for your valuable input. I am determined to go for it. They have the most intriguing sound. And yes they will break my heart..but life is too short! No doubt I will be on again looking or inspiration. By the way if anyone knows of any easy enough slow airs I can try I would be grateful. But I need the air also...Thanks folks and nice to meet u all
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Sull
Re: uileann pipes
Try Brian Borus, march. But my main advice would be find a teacher! as LW said the reed issues can be very hard to surmount A competent piper will be able to help deal with those issues. Priceless.
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by piobagusfidil
Re: uileann pipes
I always thought the seven year wait wasn't so much to do with developing musical aptitude, but rather for the development of a thick enough skin so that the piper no longer acres about inflicting their multipitch collection of wheezing reeds on the general public.
The trick with these old musical sayings is to read between the lines.*
- chris
*Furthermore, if you don't do that, you'll miss all the first octave "F"s and "A"s
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: uileann pipes
That's no longer "cares"
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: uileann pipes
Join Na Píobairi Uilleann Online..Here you can follow online tutorials to get you startED..Funny one of the basic tunes is the Rambling Pitch fork..Initial lessons are a must as there are varying schools of thought on fingering positions. If you are exited by the likes of Paddy Keenan, Davy Spillane etc, they all use predominantly LEGATO OPEN HOLE "firey" technique favoured by the travellers of Old like Doran and Cash whereas the majority of NPU piper are very tight closed hole players..The pipes are one instrument that it is IMPOSSIBLE to learn by ear..Theres also alot of teachers out there with poor technique..
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: uileann pipes
7 years to learn
7years to practice
7 years to play
After that go to the thread we had on insanity, alcohol consumption and Irish music a few weeks ago....
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by zippydw
Re: uileann pipes
With a bit of a background on the whistle/ the right teacher you can be quite proficient on the pipes in two-three years..
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: uileann pipes
"But if anyone comes along with that old piece of bonkers clap trap about seven years for this and seven years for that and seven years for the other, giggle in their face with the patronising condescension they deserve."
And I've never met a decent piper who didn't learn by squeezing the things and listening to what it sounded like.
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by ...
Re: uileann pipes
If your having trouble getting one note..as some seuugest..Then your pipes/reed are sh*te
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: uileann pipes
Its not that hard to play the pipes..Treating the whistle as a practice chanter, is a Bad idea.
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: uileann pipes
'favoured by the travellers of old like Cash..'
Actually we don't know how John Cash played at all, no recordings of his playing survive and Francis O'Neill's descriptions of him are less than flattering.
Dividing the piping world into 'open' and 'tight' is a rather simplistic device that misses the point quite a bit. It would suggest the dorans for example were completely open players, which they were not. Just as exmples of 'tight' players often use quite a bit of open fingering.
Piping, all a matter of perspective.
And you do learn them by listening to other pipers and listening to yourself extracting the right sounds from the chanter but certainly not from getting opinions on the internet.
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: uileann pipes
Alot of enigmatic nonsence surrounds the instrument..At a recent Belfast Tionol in An Droichead Cooke st.. There was a young fella under the tutelage of Paddy Davey, played pipes for two years. Recital on a power with most of the experienced NPU dublin pipers.. To quote a well known Piper " Someone forgot to tell the young people it was hard to learn the Pipes"
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: uileann pipes
Seperating Open and Closed styles at the initial stages of learning the pipes is crucial..Look at Mc Sherry or Vallelly (shud have said Keenan first), they incorporate both styles but come from solid base of LEGATO piping style. But yeah, eventually the styles have to overlap, most of the advanced piping is tight closed finger in any case. Who knows where Cash learnt his tunes...What style you favour depends on who you grow up listening to / who you think are the greats.. For me its Keenan and John Mc Sherry - Undisputed.. ?
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: uileann pipes
Once you have a decent instrument that goes well for you, the pipes are as easy/difficult to play well as any other instrument.
And the enigmatic rubbish usually comes from the clueless.
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: uileann pipes
yep..
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: uileann pipes
Greatest Piper of all time??
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: uileann pipes
>Funny one of the basic tunes is the Rambling Pitch fork...
>...there are varying schools of thought on fingering positions
I can vouch for this.
Pipers have demonstrated a variety of fingering positions for the ramblingpitchfork down the years.
- chris
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by ramblingpitchfork
Re: uileann pipes
hahahahaha
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: uileann pipes
I suspect Kilfarboy is right. I also have a practice set which was working reasonably well for me and I was getting some nice tunes out of it. Unfortunately the reed has completely crapped out (in part due to my over-zealous use of pliers, blades, sandpaper and dental floss). This is where an experienced teacher or piper friend would be worth their weight in gold.
The whistle should serve well in terms of helping you to learn tunes, and with a bit of practice on the chanter, you should be able to transfer them onto the pipes without too much trouble.
I would recommend getting at least the first DVD in 'The Art of Uilleann Piping' series from the NPU site.
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Pat Mustard
Re: uileann pipes
Dude..Over Zealous use of pliers etc..NONONONONO..I know people who you could nearly make cry by saying that.. If you check out an Piobaire theres a fella does reeds by post , dunno how good he is..Might be Lorcan Dunne but dont quote me on that. No copies infront of me at work
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: uileann pipes
Best reedmaker/pipemaker around.. Paddy O Hare - Belfast.. watch this space
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: uileann pipes
Hi Lowwhistler
I am 45 so have 20 years on u. Dont give up. Have spoken to a couple of pipers and they tell me perseverence is the key. However they did try and talk me out of even going there in the first place!! If its a dream..pursue it. I got the dvd u mentioned and have found a talented player to teach me some basics so here goes....
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Sull
Re: uileann pipes
"Treating the whistle as a practice chanter, is a Bad idea"
I have a B-flat whistle that I use. I filed/cut a thumb hole in the back and a D-sharp at the bottom. It is great for working on difficult bits. You can stick it on your knee and it plays, a bit breathily, like a pipe chanter. But watch your teeth if you are popping
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by gam
Re: uileann pipes
Sull, I have no intention of giving up! Whenever my desire to play the pipes starts to wane, I just listen to Paddy Keenan and remember why I bought the set in the first place!
I'm currently living somewhere with extremely dry air (which seems to wreak havoc on reeds), and have just put the pipes on hold until I'm back in Ireland a few months from now.
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Pat Mustard
Re: uileann pipes
Good for u. Enjoy ur travels and of coirse ur music!!
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Sull
Re: uileann pipes
I did not actually mean literally using it as a practice chanter..moreso to learn tunes on and then transfer them to the pipes. In order to learn tunes I need to have both the air and the notes together as in abc notes
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Sull
Re: uileann pipes
That Bb whistle ideas worth a try actually..Whatever way my mind works I find transferring whistle tunes to pipes very difficult at times. Never mind the completely different scope for ornamentation..Conversely pipe tunes are easy enough to transfer to whistle/flute..
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: uileann pipes
All this talk of Keenan led me to wack on Keenan/Glackin Long grazing acre..Brilliant stuff
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: uileann pipes
brilliant guitar player, Glackin, isn't he.
# Posted on March 23rd 2009 by Prof. Prlwytzkofski
Re: uileann pipes
Glackin wait a second I meant Tommy O Sullivan!..oops
It was Sean Potts and Paddy Glackin that did a collaberation am I right? think so..
# Posted on March 24th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: uileann pipes
Im sure Glackin can wire out a few tunes on the guitar mind..Ye didnt think of correctin me ther and then ye sleekid f^cker
# Posted on March 24th 2009 by Miss Mulligan
Re: uileann pipes
l know of two recordings of Glackin plus bad ass piper-"The Whirlwind" w/ Robbie Hannon, and "Doublin'" w/ Paddy Keenan. both done w/out accompaniment. some of my favourite recorded music. Maybe this should be a different discussion, but I think Paddy Glackin has a very fine-tuned, special affinity for playing with pipers. If i recall correctly he also played a few tracks on Keenan's first solo LP on Gael-Linn
# Posted on March 24th 2009 by pipewatcher
Re: uileann pipes
Wow Sull...taking up the pipes at age 45 is not an easy thing, as I'm sure people have told you.
I've taught many beginners both on the Highland pipes and uilleann pipes over the years, and the "learning curve" varies dramatically both from age to age but also from person to person.
The people who take up pipes mid-life and who actually get somewhere- become fairly good players- tend to share certain things:
1) previous background in music (this could be piano, trumpet, anything)
2) lots of time to practice (many of the mid-life success stories are stay-at-home moms or self-employed people who in some cases practiced 4 to 8 hours daily)
3) fanatical devotion, preserverance, stick-to-it-iveness, dogged persistence, determination or whatever you want to call it.
Given all these, these few mid-life beginners get pretty good in two or three years.
People who lacked these atributes tend not to go far.
Kids...what can I say? A kid will have his first practice set one week and be blowing through reels up to speed the next, it seems. And in two years, in the time the adult beginner has become a failry solid though mediocre player, the kid will be brilliant.
# Posted on March 25th 2009 by Richard D Cook
Re: uileann pipes
Oh about what tunes to learn, yes airs and song tunes etc might be best at the start.
When you do start playing jigs and reels, the fault most commonly seen is trying to play them too fast too soon, and not playing them evenly.
Though many on these boards will say no, I myself am a great believer in practicing with a metronome.
So when you start with jigs, play them quite slowly to the clicks of the metronome, only speeding up when you can play all the notes pertectly cleanly and evenly.
Or...much better all would agree... is to use the slow-down software with which you can slow down, say, a recording of Paddy Keenan playing a jig and play along. That way you'll get the pulse and the style as well.
# Posted on March 25th 2009 by Richard D Cook
Re: uileann pipes
Thanks to u all
# Posted on March 25th 2009 by Sull