1. 2nd & 3rd holes covered, rest open
2. I normally just play G and hope no-one notices but sometimes I half cover the the g hole.
3. mostly ornamentation, the odd use of tongue.
4. I only use the 3rd octave in a couple of tunes. Mostly I don't learn tunes that go that high, or I switch and play some lower notes while other instruments do the high bit.
5. yuk, no.
1. depends a bit on the whistle. OXXXOX does in most of mine, right index finger can come of for some, with or without a bit of vibrato from right middle
2. half hole although some whistles will take XXOXXX
4. never above second c''
5. Sean Potts lamented the disappearance of trills from the whistle repertoire. I have use for a few small ones, sparingly and only on certain notes.
1. OXX OOO
2. XXO XXX (lower octave) and XXO XOX (upper octave) although on my whistle XXO XXO seems to be pretty much bang on.
3. All of them - tonguing is ornamentation too.
4. A third octave? Are you taking the low D as your starting note? Anything above the high C could only be heard by bats!! Either you or I am miscounting the octaves!
5. No
1. OXXOOO and half hole the top hole. I like the pop you get when you do that oft used run up:
XOOOOO
OXXOOO
XXXXXX
but I also like to slide up the half holed one.
2. I usually avoid the G#. Play tunes in A with no G#. But if pressed, I'd half hole it.
3. Cuts, taps, rolls, slides, crans. I only really use the tongue to define the phrasing, and even then, sparingly.
Obviously different fron whistle to whistle but for Overton....
1. OXX OOO
2. More often than not half-hole but otherwise XXO XXX for the lower octave and XXO XOX for upper octave
3. All of them
4. Very occasionally touch the to d but not for long
5. Yes, but only very occasionally
Thanks, folks. Some varied and interesting answers, so far!
And for what it's worth, here are my thoughts:
I've always used X -fingering for C-Nat, but I've never settled on a consistent method of fingering for G-Sharp. I've often wondered whether it would be possible to manufacture a whistle with a doubled 3rd hole (rather like the double holes on the lower holes on recorders).
Third octave? Yes, you get a few notes from the 3rd octave by very controlled and forceful overblowing. Very shrill, and you CAN hear it, even if you're not a bat! I would never use this for tunes, but it can be sometimes be employed to give a bit of "sparkle" if someone is singing "Irish Rover" (or something of that ilk) and lots of other instruments are playing as well, especially if the tune is in G-Maj.
Might use low trills in a couple of places in slow airs, and high trills for a bit of fun during the kind of songs as mentioned above.
I've always considered tounging to be a method of playing, rather than method of ornamentation. I use it occasionally when playing the very high notes - and probably for quite a few other notes as well, if it's an English tune that's being played.
1. OXXOOOO
2. Er. I can't remember but I *think* it's XXOXOO.
3. I try to minimise tonguing. Depends on the tune.
4. Yes. Ashokan Farewell on an A whistle is the one that most regularly gets into the third octave. I've found that the Tabor-Pipe approach works nicely. So you play XXXXXO instead of XOOOOO, XXXXOO instead of OOOOOO. I hope I got that the right way around. Obviously I do this by ear.
5. No, because I'm crap at them.
Interesting topic!, here are my worthless novice responses....
1) OXX OOO for me, though I'm starting to get to grips with half holing
2) I havent had the pleasure of learning a tune with a G# in it yet.
3) I created a recent topic related to this, so at the moment its mostly rolls, cuts, taps and slides an odd crann and very occasionally the tongue (mostly at the start of phrases).
I have noticed very recently that using the tongue makes it easier to knock out the high B note cleanly
4) No
5) I have noticed myself playing a short trill at times, particulary on B, I think mainly as a hold over from playing the pipes, the top hand action is the same as that for a doubling on F on the GHB. Though I supose this doesnt count as a proper musical decision, more a habitual thing.
1: Don't forget 0x0 xxx works best on most flutes.
2. Half hole. But my holes are bigger on the flute...
3. Use them all. Definitiely tongue more than some people advocate. Often tongue triplets etc. when learning a tune - later they may become rolls/crans, etc.
4. 3rd Octave on the flute - yes. Whistle? - never tried....
5. Yes, some short trills - 2 or three taps - no more than that.
I don't play whistle now as much as I did, say, 5 or 6 years ago, being primarily a mandolin player. Also living in an Irish-trad-poor area, my repertoire and style of playing has become somewhat more generic than specifically 'Irish'. I shall, however, attempt to answer the questionnaire.
1. Normally OXX XOX (I find this the most in tune and usually the easiest).
- Occasionally OXX OOO as la lazy fingering if it's easier, or when I want to use finger vibrato.
- DOO OOO if I want to slide up to the C.
- OXO XXX only as part of a Bcd triplet run (bottom 3 holes kept closed throught)
- I try to use OXXX XOO for C in the 2nd octave, but sometimes I don't think quick enough and end up using DOO OOO
2. Usually XXD OOO in the lower octave (If I use a cross fingering, XXO XXX, but I find it sounds too close to A on most whistles).
- XXO XXO in the upper octave, if I have the presence of mind. Otherwise XXD OOO
- I usually save the A tunes for the mandolin.
3. A combination of tonguing and finger ornamentation.
- I rarely use tongued triplets, as I'm not very good at them. But occasionally, when I'm in full flight, I'll tongue all the notes in a triplet.
- I tend to use long rolls in the usual places, i.e. on dotted crotchets in jigs and in phrases such as BG3 and B3G in reels.
- I use short rolls less often, and more for decoration that articulation.
- I use cuts extensively, taps less often
- I sometimes use taps to separate similar notes in jigs, in phrases such as BGG AGG, but more often use tonguing
- I usually tongue the first note in rolls
- I use more tonguing in jigs than in reels
- I use crans on bottom D in jigs, but rarely in reels, rarely on E and rarely in the second octave.
- I not infrequently slide up to notes, favouring particular notes of the scale (G being most common), almost invariaby starting the slide by tonguing.
- I sometimes use an 'appoggiatura' instead of a slide, i.e. coming straight up stepwise from the note below instead of sliding up.
- I find that *no ornament* is sometimes a very effective ornament, i.e. just playing the note plain and naked, perhaps using the breath to 'push' it a bit.
4. Never in jigs and reels
- Sometimes when accompanying songs, but rarely above d'.
Even that is a bit risky.
5. Not in jigs and reels - unless I'm in a particularly frivolous
mood
- I might occasionally trill in non-dance tunes, such as O'Carolan's compositions, or when accompanying songs. But I'm not very good at it - it usually comes out sounding like a lot of cuts in quick succession.
Indeed, all (but one!) of the responses so far have been excellent. This thread seems to be developing a possible good point of reference for the beginner or improver ...
1. Almost always cross-fingering in the first octave: either OXX|OOO or OXX|XOX depending on which whistle I'm using.
In certain tunes (such as the Ir*sh W**herw*m*n... don't shoot me!) I half-hole the 1st octave C-nat. If a 2nd octave C-nat is required, I always half-hole.
2. I always half-hole the G-sharp, since I can't find an in-tune cross fingering on any of my whistles. Mostly I just curse the fact that I'm not a fiddler.
4. The only tune I ever use a trill in is Si Bheag Si Mhor
3. I've lately started tonguing a lot more, in conjuction with the usual rolls/cuts/taps. Not tonguing every note, but using it to to add a bit of emphasis here and there. I wish I could provide a better explanation of how and when I use it, but I mostly do it without thinking about it. I've also taken to trying to imitate pipers' triplets on the whistle with varying degrees of success. As well as the regular rolls, I quite frequently use a roll with a double cut and then a tap. I use slides quite a bit, especially in when playing slower jigs and anything O'Carolan-ish.
2. half hole. I learned recorder many years ago so have no issues half holing
3. more cuts than tonguing.
4. I use rolls on the really trite Irish stuff that we use at church once a year. Everyone thinks it sounds Irish...... Sorry. I keep telling everyone that the faux Irish from the Chicago Church music sausage factory is drivel.
No Random, one whistle is actually better than three.
You wouldn't have time to swap whistles in the middle of playing a set of tunes, if one or more of those tunes happens to be in a different key. And quite a few tunes modulate (change key) within within the tune itself..
For ITM, you mostly need just one whistle. And that's a D whistle. Or maybe a low D-whistle.
If playing with brass bands happens to be your forte, you might perhaps choose a Bb or Eb whistle ....
1. OXX OOO, occasionally half-hole.
2. Hmmm, can't remember playing an A major tune on the whistle (I mosltyl play fiddle and guitar), but probably half-hole.
3. 95% ornamentation
4. Only to get my cat's attention.
5. No, but I'm not opposed to them.
On the classic old recordings, there's *lots* of tonguing.
I'm one of those whistle players who tends to leave the lower ring finger on when playing G, A, B, and C.
For G sharp I half-hole. The whistle is not a recorder, despite all the people trying their best to turn it into one.
About articuation, I played Irish flute and whistle for 30 years and on the flute I did no tonguing whatsoever but on high whistles I do a lot of tonguing.
But then I had to give up the flute due to hand cramping and switched to Low D whistle nearly two years ago.
Funny, at first I was playing the Low D whistle like the flute (without tonguing) but as I play it more I'm tonguing more. Not as much as I would use on a high whistle (which I rarely play anyhow). It's like the Low D whistle stands at a mid-point between the flute and high whistle stylistically somehow.
Third octave, no. The highest note I've come across in an ITM tune is C in the 2nd octave.
Trills done with the lower-hand index finger on F# and E are part-and-parcel to uilleann pipe style and I've carried that over to my flute/whistle playing. These trills can be short- what is called an upper mordent or praltriller in classical music- or they can be full-length trills. Both are quite traditional on the uilleann pipes.
Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
If you play a "D" whistle:
Q1. Which fingering method do you you use to obtain C natural, when playing in a "one-sharp" key (e.g. G-Major)?
Q2. Which fingering method do you use to obtain G sharp, when playing in a "three sharps" key (e.g. A-Major)?
Q3. Do you achieve articulation primarily by using ornamentation (e.g. cuts, rolls, slides) or by means of "tongueing".
Q4. Do you ever play using notes in the third (upper) octave?
Q5. Do you ever use trills?
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
1. 2nd & 3rd holes covered, rest open
2. I normally just play G and hope no-one notices but sometimes I half cover the the g hole.
3. mostly ornamentation, the odd use of tongue.
4. I only use the 3rd octave in a couple of tunes. Mostly I don't learn tunes that go that high, or I switch and play some lower notes while other instruments do the high bit.
5. yuk, no.
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by SineadE
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
1. depends a bit on the whistle. OXXXOX does in most of mine, right index finger can come of for some, with or without a bit of vibrato from right middle
2. half hole although some whistles will take XXOXXX
4. never above second c''
5. Sean Potts lamented the disappearance of trills from the whistle repertoire. I have use for a few small ones, sparingly and only on certain notes.
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by <>-_-_-<>
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
1. OXX OOO
2. XXO XXX (lower octave) and XXO XOX (upper octave) although on my whistle XXO XXO seems to be pretty much bang on.
3. All of them - tonguing is ornamentation too.
4. A third octave? Are you taking the low D as your starting note? Anything above the high C could only be heard by bats!! Either you or I am miscounting the octaves!
5. No
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
1. OXXOOO and half hole the top hole. I like the pop you get when you do that oft used run up:
XOOOOO
OXXOOO
XXXXXX
but I also like to slide up the half holed one.
2. I usually avoid the G#. Play tunes in A with no G#. But if pressed, I'd half hole it.
3. Cuts, taps, rolls, slides, crans. I only really use the tongue to define the phrasing, and even then, sparingly.
4. Rarely
5. No. But I'm not averse to it sparingly.
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
Obviously different fron whistle to whistle but for Overton....
1. OXX OOO
2. More often than not half-hole but otherwise XXO XXX for the lower octave and XXO XOX for upper octave
3. All of them
4. Very occasionally touch the to d but not for long
5. Yes, but only very occasionally
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by bogman
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
1,2,3,4,5 - whatever works.
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by Kenny
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
I must say, I'm a normally a fan of the acidic short sharp reply, but that's a bit lame eh?
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by llig leahcim
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
Thanks, folks. Some varied and interesting answers, so far!
And for what it's worth, here are my thoughts:
I've always used X -fingering for C-Nat, but I've never settled on a consistent method of fingering for G-Sharp. I've often wondered whether it would be possible to manufacture a whistle with a doubled 3rd hole (rather like the double holes on the lower holes on recorders).
Third octave? Yes, you get a few notes from the 3rd octave by very controlled and forceful overblowing. Very shrill, and you CAN hear it, even if you're not a bat! I would never use this for tunes, but it can be sometimes be employed to give a bit of "sparkle" if someone is singing "Irish Rover" (or something of that ilk) and lots of other instruments are playing as well, especially if the tune is in G-Maj.
Might use low trills in a couple of places in slow airs, and high trills for a bit of fun during the kind of songs as mentioned above.
I've always considered tounging to be a method of playing, rather than method of ornamentation. I use it occasionally when playing the very high notes - and probably for quite a few other notes as well, if it's an English tune that's being played.
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
1. OXXOOOO
2. Er. I can't remember but I *think* it's XXOXOO.
3. I try to minimise tonguing. Depends on the tune.
4. Yes. Ashokan Farewell on an A whistle is the one that most regularly gets into the third octave. I've found that the Tabor-Pipe approach works nicely. So you play XXXXXO instead of XOOOOO, XXXXOO instead of OOOOOO. I hope I got that the right way around. Obviously I do this by ear.
5. No, because I'm crap at them.
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by Innocent Bystander
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
Interesting topic!, here are my worthless novice responses....
1) OXX OOO for me, though I'm starting to get to grips with half holing
2) I havent had the pleasure of learning a tune with a G# in it yet.
3) I created a recent topic related to this, so at the moment its mostly rolls, cuts, taps and slides an odd crann and very occasionally the tongue (mostly at the start of phrases).
I have noticed very recently that using the tongue makes it easier to knock out the high B note cleanly
4) No
5) I have noticed myself playing a short trill at times, particulary on B, I think mainly as a hold over from playing the pipes, the top hand action is the same as that for a doubling on F on the GHB. Though I supose this doesnt count as a proper musical decision, more a habitual thing.
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by markt123
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
1: Don't forget 0x0 xxx works best on most flutes.
2. Half hole. But my holes are bigger on the flute...
3. Use them all. Definitiely tongue more than some people advocate. Often tongue triplets etc. when learning a tune - later they may become rolls/crans, etc.
4. 3rd Octave on the flute - yes. Whistle? - never tried....
5. Yes, some short trills - 2 or three taps - no more than that.
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by Crackpot
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
I don't play whistle now as much as I did, say, 5 or 6 years ago, being primarily a mandolin player. Also living in an Irish-trad-poor area, my repertoire and style of playing has become somewhat more generic than specifically 'Irish'. I shall, however, attempt to answer the questionnaire.
1. Normally OXX XOX (I find this the most in tune and usually the easiest).
- Occasionally OXX OOO as la lazy fingering if it's easier, or when I want to use finger vibrato.
- DOO OOO if I want to slide up to the C.
- OXO XXX only as part of a Bcd triplet run (bottom 3 holes kept closed throught)
- I try to use OXXX XOO for C in the 2nd octave, but sometimes I don't think quick enough and end up using DOO OOO
2. Usually XXD OOO in the lower octave (If I use a cross fingering, XXO XXX, but I find it sounds too close to A on most whistles).
- XXO XXO in the upper octave, if I have the presence of mind. Otherwise XXD OOO
- I usually save the A tunes for the mandolin.
3. A combination of tonguing and finger ornamentation.
- I rarely use tongued triplets, as I'm not very good at them. But occasionally, when I'm in full flight, I'll tongue all the notes in a triplet.
- I tend to use long rolls in the usual places, i.e. on dotted crotchets in jigs and in phrases such as BG3 and B3G in reels.
- I use short rolls less often, and more for decoration that articulation.
- I use cuts extensively, taps less often
- I sometimes use taps to separate similar notes in jigs, in phrases such as BGG AGG, but more often use tonguing
- I usually tongue the first note in rolls
- I use more tonguing in jigs than in reels
- I use crans on bottom D in jigs, but rarely in reels, rarely on E and rarely in the second octave.
- I not infrequently slide up to notes, favouring particular notes of the scale (G being most common), almost invariaby starting the slide by tonguing.
- I sometimes use an 'appoggiatura' instead of a slide, i.e. coming straight up stepwise from the note below instead of sliding up.
- I find that *no ornament* is sometimes a very effective ornament, i.e. just playing the note plain and naked, perhaps using the breath to 'push' it a bit.
4. Never in jigs and reels
- Sometimes when accompanying songs, but rarely above d'.
Even that is a bit risky.
5. Not in jigs and reels - unless I'm in a particularly frivolous
mood
- I might occasionally trill in non-dance tunes, such as O'Carolan's compositions, or when accompanying songs. But I'm not very good at it - it usually comes out sounding like a lot of cuts in quick succession.
I hope this has been helpful.
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by OrganicPeatCreature
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
The most comprehensive response so far, ragman!
Indeed, all (but one!) of the responses so far have been excellent. This thread seems to be developing a possible good point of reference for the beginner or improver ...
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
1. Almost always cross-fingering in the first octave: either OXX|OOO or OXX|XOX depending on which whistle I'm using.
In certain tunes (such as the Ir*sh W**herw*m*n... don't shoot me!) I half-hole the 1st octave C-nat. If a 2nd octave C-nat is required, I always half-hole.
2. I always half-hole the G-sharp, since I can't find an in-tune cross fingering on any of my whistles. Mostly I just curse the fact that I'm not a fiddler.
4. The only tune I ever use a trill in is Si Bheag Si Mhor
3. I've lately started tonguing a lot more, in conjuction with the usual rolls/cuts/taps. Not tonguing every note, but using it to to add a bit of emphasis here and there. I wish I could provide a better explanation of how and when I use it, but I mostly do it without thinking about it. I've also taken to trying to imitate pipers' triplets on the whistle with varying degrees of success. As well as the regular rolls, I quite frequently use a roll with a double cut and then a tap. I use slides quite a bit, especially in when playing slower jigs and anything O'Carolan-ish.
4. Never ever ever.
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by Craic Addict
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
My Burke only requires OXXOOO.
My Oak and Feadog require OXXOOX. The Oak is squeeky and has crummy high range-why I dropped for a really nice Burke.
My generations you can never tell. Pieces of c**p
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
Oops
2. half hole. I learned recorder many years ago so have no issues half holing
3. more cuts than tonguing.
4. I use rolls on the really trite Irish stuff that we use at church once a year. Everyone thinks it sounds Irish...... Sorry. I keep telling everyone that the faux Irish from the Chicago Church music sausage factory is drivel.
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
not rolls. Trills. Its early sorry.
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
Why are the numbers in my list all screwed up? Hmmm, maybe I wrote it like that due to lack of sleep...
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by Craic Addict
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
One question left off this list is how you would play a Bb. Personally I would cross-finger:
XOX XXX
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by No Cause For Alarm
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
Easier workaround, No Cause!
If someone starts up a tune in F, just go up to the bar and get your glass re-filled ....
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
3 whistles can get you playing more tunes ~ D, C, Bb
or 4
or more
or less . . .
cross-fingering & half-holing can often keep you playing on just 1.
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by Random_notes
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
Random_notes
Only problem with half holing on one whistle is that the range of the whistle can become limited both on the high side and the low side...
and doing arpeggios is a real bite....
So I keep a C, Eflat and bflat handy hen playing with our pianonazi and she decides to key change from D to eflat or something like than
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by zippydw
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
No Random, one whistle is actually better than three.
You wouldn't have time to swap whistles in the middle of playing a set of tunes, if one or more of those tunes happens to be in a different key. And quite a few tunes modulate (change key) within within the tune itself..
For ITM, you mostly need just one whistle. And that's a D whistle. Or maybe a low D-whistle.
If playing with brass bands happens to be your forte, you might perhaps choose a Bb or Eb whistle ....
# Posted on March 16th 2009 by Mix O'Lydian
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
1. Usually OXX OOO with the index finger of the lower hand shading the hole to tune the note. Half-hole when sliding into a C or in certain tunes.
2. Low octave XXO XXX, 2nd octave XXO XXO, or half-hole.
3. Both; I use lots of tongueing on the whistle.
4. Yes, occasionally, but I try to turn away from whoever is sitting closest to me.
5. I sometimes use a sort of short trill.
# Posted on March 17th 2009 by ballynabill
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
Q1. usually oxo ooo; oxx ooo if I have time
Q2. half hold
Q3. mostly cuts, rolls, half-rolls but also tonguing and slides
Q4. 3rd octave sounds really painful, especially to the people
sitting next the whistler
Q5. Do you ever use trills? Yes, often. A really short trill is
pretty standard for whistles and pipes - just a couple of
super fast blips in a row
# Posted on March 17th 2009 by Hup
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
1. OXX OOO, occasionally half-hole.
2. Hmmm, can't remember playing an A major tune on the whistle (I mosltyl play fiddle and guitar), but probably half-hole.
3. 95% ornamentation
4. Only to get my cat's attention.
5. No, but I'm not opposed to them.
On the classic old recordings, there's *lots* of tonguing.
# Posted on March 17th 2009 by Bob himself
Re: Whistle Fingering - Straw poll
C natural
oxx oox usually.
I'm one of those whistle players who tends to leave the lower ring finger on when playing G, A, B, and C.
For G sharp I half-hole. The whistle is not a recorder, despite all the people trying their best to turn it into one.
About articuation, I played Irish flute and whistle for 30 years and on the flute I did no tonguing whatsoever but on high whistles I do a lot of tonguing.
But then I had to give up the flute due to hand cramping and switched to Low D whistle nearly two years ago.
Funny, at first I was playing the Low D whistle like the flute (without tonguing) but as I play it more I'm tonguing more. Not as much as I would use on a high whistle (which I rarely play anyhow). It's like the Low D whistle stands at a mid-point between the flute and high whistle stylistically somehow.
Third octave, no. The highest note I've come across in an ITM tune is C in the 2nd octave.
Trills done with the lower-hand index finger on F# and E are part-and-parcel to uilleann pipe style and I've carried that over to my flute/whistle playing. These trills can be short- what is called an upper mordent or praltriller in classical music- or they can be full-length trills. Both are quite traditional on the uilleann pipes.
# Posted on March 18th 2009 by Richard D Cook